Nearly half of Israeli Jews support ethnic cleansing

Altairius said:
@spuukiebuugi Coming from some vile woman who refuses to condemn ethnic cleansing. smh. Also, it's more than a bit weird that you're responding to me during a wedding.



It's what the poll straightforwardly says, and simply about Arabs, full stop. He keeps referencing some other poll, but that doesn't change the results here in this quite recent one. Moreover, it breaks down multiple categories of Jews. It's very in-depth.

razor39999 said:
They're more liberal than leftist though, since they're mainly concerned with social issues and not economical. So, I would call SJW's and their ilk liberal, they're the shit part of liberalism (or extremist liberals if you will), where they're pushing the idea of equality to its breaking point. And misinterpreting equality of opportunity with equality of outcomes. A more moderate liberal and one that was and is more common for the political scene of where I live doesn't make that mistake.

Comic_Sans said:
@Altairius Merely saying something doesn't make sense or that it's straightforward is not an argument, sorry not sorry.

For current events, yes, current means "belonging to the present time" and 2016 is not the present day or the present time, it was a year ago. Don't blame me, blame time.

omfgplzstop said:
I asked for a clarification on what you consider a liberal because I assumed you considered them liberal in some sense, lol. I'd personally prefer referring to liberals as people chiefly concerned with liberty, in the John Stuart Mill sense, so when SJWs think you should be forced to, for example, bake a cake for a gay wedding if you're a christian, it becomes impossible for me to describe them with that word. How important do you consider equality in liberalism, and do you specifically refer to equality of opportunity, outcome or some measures of both?

DateYutaka said:



yiur a zionist how can you be unbaied n a topixc like this

omfgplzstop said:
Did you ever see me claim to be unbiased? Or do you think people who hold any ideological bias at all cannot ever approach any topic that pertains to that bias with an open mind? Have you ever tried questioning your biases?

In the first place, you don't even know in what sense I am a zionist, unless you weren't referring to my statement and are just attributing stances to me based on my other stances. I'd appreciate it if you tried to elaborate.

Comic_Sans said:
@Altairius Should I pretend that was an argument?

I don't post Ben Shapiro clips. And no, if I ever decide to create a thread about something that isn't a current event then I'm not gonna link to a news article from 2016 and post that in Current Events, I'm going to link to the Pew research page directly and post it in Casual Discussion.

omfgplzstop said:
@Altairius
It's incredibly vague for reasons I've already outlined, most significantly the lack of a "the" or ANY specification at all, the ways the word "transfer" is used in Israeli political discussions and then a bunch of other factors that become relevant thanks to the first reason. You ignore everything I brought up so you aren't forced to rethink your position. Do you really think 13% of left-wing jews support ethnic cleansing? Have you seen who they vote for? You're the one speculating on what people mean by answering something so vague.

Nice strawman regarding Comic's point, though. I really want to see your big five personality results, pls share.

razor39999 said:
Liberty is the number one concern of liberals, but it shares that spot with equality. Probably the best way to apply affirmative action of any sort is through education, not in employment laws and practices. Enticing previously discriminated against groups to send their children to schools and making it easier for them to do so would be the easiest way to turn any trend around. That's why I can never support private or home schooling. Knowledge is the ultimate weapon and tool and should be available to anyone, and the easiest way to do it is through public schooling.

Altairius said:


Okay, so long as you admit that a poll being a year old is not an argument against it. It didn't seem like you were merely complaining about the forum this was posted in.



I didn't ignore anything you said. I just think it's lame excuses. "The way transfer is used"? What is this Talmudic crap?

Heh. I would not be in the slightest surprised if "left-wing" Israeli Jews were down with, let's say a moderate amount of Kebab Removalism. What do you think those left-wing Jews who voted 'Yes' on this thought it meant?

Of course you want to see my results for that test. Always with the psychoanalysis.

Comic_Sans said:
@Altairius Nice strawman

Comic_Sans said:
@Altairius That you shouldn't create thread about something that isn't a current event and post it in Current Events and instead post it in Casual Discussion

razor39999 said:
Probably the best way to practically apply affirmative action of any sort is through education, not in employment laws and practices. Enticing previously discriminated against groups to send their children to schools and making it easier for them to do so would be the easiest way to turn any trend around. That's why I can never support private or home schooling. Knowledge is the ultimate weapon and tool and should be available to anyone, and the easiest way to do it is through public schooling.

omfgplzstop said:
My ideal would be complete privatization, since I do believe in charity and would love to see what kinds of niches will open up and how entrepreneurs would go about making education more efficient, but if you're just worried about everyone getting schooling, I think a voucher system functions a lot better than most public school systems. It's one of the only social policies I've ever argued in favor of, since while it's got some of the (from my point of view, at least) negatives of the public school system, as well as some of its own problems, it at least throws competition and consequences into the mix.

Among the negatives for me is that central planning of subjects that come with some values attached, like history, really bothers me, since it's why you end up with people thinking FDR's policies are what got the US out of the great depression (when Hoover's policies, which he expanded, were what put the great in it), or people calling Jefferson who was actively trying to get slavery abolished a racist slave-owner because he'd inherited slaves he couldn't set free under Virginia law. Even if you disagree with me on these things, I'm sure you'll at least agree history can be really dicy because of the values involved. Learning about the Israeli-Arab conflict has been a nightmare for me for that reason.

I'm not really against home schooling. Obviously I think it's not always optimal, but I know some smart and knowledgable people who were home schooled and it seems even more viable with the internet. I feel confident in saying I've learned more from the internet and books during high school than I've learned in most high school subjects.

I'd prefer to let people choose what values they want to try to pass onto their children as opposed to forcing them to accept the values a department of education likes, even if that means you'll get some people trying to teach their children falsehoods and values I think we'd both consider negative (homophobia or racism, for example).

Another issue I have with public education systems is the lack of something I mentioned I'd appreciate about privatization, niches. I don't see a centralized education system that students try to fit into functioning better than varying systems that each try to supply the different demands of as many different students as they can manage. This theoretically can happen to a lesser degree in a public system that allows teachers more freedom in the way they teach and would incentivize good teachers to work hard while culture supports them (and unions don't take over and mess stuff up), I'm just not sure exactly what kind of system would incentivize it. There's probably an example out there of that with teachers who have that freedom and care about their students, lol.

The "private will be more efficient/i believe in charity/niches are better than imposed uniform standards/parents should be in charge of values and schooling specifically isn't as important as learning in general" are probably the biggest reasons I dislike public schools. There are a lot of other arguments I never really looked into in-depth, so I'd rather not bring them up.

In my ideal world complete privatization would be great, but vouchers are the second best option, and I wouldn't be surprised if you considered the fact that the government needs to approve the schools a positive. How do you feel about it? It doesn't even require anything beyond government allowing private schools to be established (while allowing them to experiment and innovate) and agreeing to provide a voucher that can be redeemed there.

@DateYutaka There will never be any hope for peace in this region so long as people on one side continue to strap bombs onto their children in hopes of murdering just about anyone on the other. What do you think caused the right to "take over"? The left keeps trying to appease the Palestinians, who only get rewarded for their terrorism. Rabin is still considered left-wing, but if you look at some of Bibi's stances, he's even more to the left than him. The more time passes, the more our government caves into their demands. I'll keep pointing out that Netanyahu's not the hardcore right winger people try to present him as.

@Altairius

You decide to think they're lame excuses. The "land swaps" even Obama talked about are what "transfer" is used to denote in political discussions here. The word holds a certain connotation. Although have to admit that your eagerness to bring up the Talmud is hilarious.

I also like how you excuse the left-wing people by saying you can imagine them supporting "moderate removalism" but somehow it's completely impossible that the right-wingers who said the same meant something similar. Or, you know, that any of my previous points can be acknowledged. I already gave you plenty of examples of what they could've thought it meant. Most people likely thought the question was if you support the expulsion or transfer of any Arabs, ever.

Yes, I really want to see how they'd classify your personality. Because of your behavior and beliefs, trying to better understand what goes on in your head is incredibly interesting to me, and since I've been looking into those personality tests lately incorporating the results to one of those tests should be even more fun.

razor39999 said:
Relying on the good will of those that got their hand first in the education "cookie jar" is a lot less preferable than having education freely available. Public schools are just the current best option. Maybe a more systematic usage of internet resources will eventually be the route to go, and some of it is already being implemented in many western schools as a supplement to classic teaching. For instance, the school I work at offers many avenues to enhance classes with internet resources and other technical solutions.

omfgplzstop said:
@DateYutaka even the UN admitted Hamas launches rockets from schools and keeps civilians around targets. The IDF goes above and beyond in its attempts to minimize civilian casualties. Its actions are not terrorism by any definition.

omfgplzstop said:
That's cool, and like I said, I have no doubt that public schools can improve, but unless I'm misunderstanding it doesn't seem like you answered my questions. What do you see as the education cookie jar?

DateYutaka said:


soon as you kill a non combatnad itsa war crime that ot me is black and white so if indeed hamas and alike usme human shikds that is war crime to

war crime is war cime no matter who does it

omfgplzstop said:
Only targeting noncombatants is a war crime, and I think that happens very rarely, with individual soldiers who've gone off the rails. Yes, it's horrible, but to condemn the entire IDF for it seems silly.

razor39999 said:
You mentioned complete privatisation of schools, and in that case school owners would be in full control of who gets educated when, how and what about. You could say the same about a public schooling system being in control of the government, but a government is something that is and can be far more scrutinized than individual private citizens. So, other than countries with authoritarian governments, I can never see a completely private school system being equally efficient both in terms of covered subjects and availability of knowledge to the masses.

DateYutaka said:


when over 60-70% of death is non combatnats iym sorry that is coondebale in my view

soon as one death of non combanten happens it becomes a war crime imo

war is between the siolders not non combatnats if we were stil, in olden time id say its bnd but expacted bakc then notin these days

omfgplzstop said:
But they won't get people's money if people don't like what they are (or aren't) teaching, and that means they go out of business. Private entities are far easier for citizens to punish than the government; they just take their capital somewhere else. With government bureaucrats and unions get involved and it becomes a lot harder to deal with. The point about availability of knowledge is much better IMO because there's the poor people issue, but I think charter schools and/or (if needed) public schools made for those who can't afford private schools would work as ways of providing even those people education.

razor39999 said:
I'm not willing to screw over the potential genius of any child through sub par schooling just because s/he happens to not afford the "prestige" private schools. Also, if you go full circle with the argument about rich parents punishing schools about what they teach, the much higher chance is they will punish them for their children's bad grades and you'd end up with a system that either monopolises knowledge, or worse yet, does everything it can to let their students pass even if they're not working enough or learning anything. It's a double edged sword that can succumb to greed or be corrupted much more easily than government schools.

NudeBear said:


That's exactly the problem though. In the US about 40% of the country believes evolution is bollocks, and a significant portion of them wouldn't hesitate to remove it from our education. In your system schools will not only be not punished for providing incorrect information but they can actually be rewarded for it. Education shouldn't be treated like a business nor should it be dictated by what parents like or dislike, it should be ideally dictated by correct, accurate, and factual information. Currently the standardization of education through the government is the best system to minimize corruption.

omfgplzstop said:
Don't you think that's a little unrealistic? Everyone would prefer no noncombatants died at all (except Hamas) but it's impossible, especially with the kinds of tactics used.

razor39999 said:
@omfgplzstop

Specialisation isn't something only private schools can do. Depending on how your high school education is set up, many public schools can prepare you for very specific jobs or universities. The US system isn't such a good representation of it, but European systems have high schools that are not just extensions of primary school, but actually very specialised, for anything from hairdressers to computer science. And there's also gymnasiums that are more generalised, somewhat like US high schools, but with a higher importance placed on natural science, arts or linguistics depending on the type of gymnasium.

When you get time, do some reading on European school systems, not to brag, but we're pretty high quality and very diverse when it comes to different options as early as high school. As an example, and an overall very small subset of possible high school options, the place where I work has these courses: electrical technician with applied computer skills (a 4 year school program), railway traffic worker (3 years), economic science high school (4 years), CNC operator (3 years), mechatronics technician (4 years). All of them have a few general subjects (Croatian language, foreign language, math, geography, history, PE) and a bunch of specialised subjects depending on the course.

And all of that is available freely to all teenagers, with many schools still being quite competitive with each other and keeping up with newer technologies and methodologies. Not to mention that plenty of work has been done to set up individualised options for children with disabilities, and not just in the form of "special schools" but depending on disability within regular schools as well.

As for your question about private schools, they have the option to run courses equivalent to the ones in public schools but with the parents paying for it, or run a different system, like the Waldorf school system I mentioned, but if the kids from those schools wish to enter a public college, they'd first need to pass a test covering subject differences, before applying for state high school graduation testing.

Maybe in areas where public education is in its infancy, pushing for some better education could be done faster through private schools, before establishing good public schools, but in established non-authoritarian countries a public schooling system is the way to go, especially if you copy the European model.

traed said:
Congrats OP you think like a Jew. When are you converting, goy boy?

Also this isn't a current event. The article was written a year ago and the survey took place between 2014 and 2015.

Altairius said:


The whole point is to not have to become a paranoid diaspora people with no real homeland.

But anyway, no, my views aren't comparable to the Israelis. The Jews are the ones imposing themselves on a native population, whereas I want to reverse the process of Muslims being imposed on native Europeans.

spuukiebuugi said:

man doesn't really have a native home, hence the fact that a shitton of people were migratory hunter-gatherers who sailed, ran, walked, to their destinations in time when technological conveniences didn't exist (white, black, indian, blah blah blah) long before criticisms of migrants came to light and borders were established, so to criticize one group of ppl to try and reinforce your hatred for one or two groups of people seems awfully generalizing, or rather just attempting to knock two birds with one stone to poorly "convince" someone as delululu as you to think more like you (with most of us, your propaganda is seen as it should be seen, befuddling & atrocious). anyway to assume that all jewish people think like a teeny little sample size, which again you cherrypicked to reinforce your little agenda (an agenda as transparent as your nonexistent signature, meaning, no transparency) from 1-3 years ago is in itself a massive fallacy, which i know you think you're incapable of, but allow me to tell you, in the immortal words of godforesaken trump (i'm going there), of all people? you're "WRONG!" about nearly everything. everything you type is basically a fallacy of the worst kind. anyway yeah almost all your responses and existence here is completely unwarranted because you do not grasp the acutuality in which we live, as your perceptions have become so skewed by a narrow worldview to the extent where you probably could cease to function in normalized society outside of ranting about how much you not so secretly love hitler behind a computer screen.

you don't understand the world. a schizoid would have a better realistic comprehension of it than you, at least my ex's mom, who was an actual schizophrenic?? could leave her house. jfs, the only reason you'd be posting this shit online is as follows: you couldn't go out and say it to someone's face without getting clocked, or rather, are too cowardly to even face reality in general, however, you shouldn't pester a community with your delusion, your untreated mental illness(es) isn't/aren't our problem.

you sincerely sound like you need some kind of reassignment or deconditioning therapy in order to somehow vent whatever unbridled hatred you got pent up. you need a shrink, not access to stormfront, whatever or wherever you've formed these ideas and built up this ideology from? you need counseling, not a fucking internet connection. wallowing in an unhinged nature is an unhealthy way to live, you'd sooner end up killing yourself with all this anger that's clearly manifested itself as false pride and thus given you false invincibility complexes. anyway beyond psychoanalytic shit that i'm sure you won't pay any heed to, you just sound like you're gone beyond all belief, and i have no faith in people like you who continually immerse themselves in extremist fury and hatred, no matter how mentally ill you may be, it's not an excuse.

Comic_Sans said:
@Altairius I've already replied to that one though

Altairius said:
@swirlydragon It's you and me vs. the world man.

Altairius said:
@traed *facepalm* Not wanting to end up like the Jews is "exactly what the Jews want"? You should lay down or something.

lol, even you are now making excuses for Israel. Their similar DNA doesn't change how the nation was created and its current policies.


@Yomiyuki You're just going to get the same hysterical tirade but with different phrasing.

traed said:


Become like the Jews and be a target of a genocides? How could that be if the Holocaust never happened? You can't have it both ways. lol

I'm not making any excuse. I'm just pointing out what you said did not seem like the best way to put it from how it's not exactly easy to define what would count as native for this situation because of the many times the land changed hands of various cultures as well as close genetic roots. That doesn't mean I support how Israel was formed or it's current policies.

Comic_Sans said:
@Swirlydragon Nice strawman, now stop stalking me