| H.R.7 - No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion and Abortion Insurance Full Disclosure Act of 2017 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/7 tl;dr unless it's an emergency, can't use tax payer money for abortion. H.R.36 - Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/36 tl;dr. abortion of fetus that can "feel pain" is a crime. supposedly, they can feel pain by week 20 of gestation. H.R.37 - Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/37 tl;dr if a child miraculously survives abortion, it must be taken care of. H.R.354 - Defund Planned Parenthood Act of 2017 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/354 tl;dr title is self-evident H.R.490 - Heartbeat Protection Act of 2017 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/490 tl;dr unless it's an emergency, abortion on a fetus with heartbeat is a crime. H.R.586 - Sanctity of Human Life Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/586 tl;dr legally define fertilized egg or cloned egg as a human being having all the rights and privileges defined in the Constitution (this means, an abortion would be qualified as 1st-degree murder) H.R.692 - To amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit taking minors across State lines in circumvention of laws requiring the involvement of parents in abortion decisions. https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/692 tl;dr title is self-evident. what. they're trying to make a fertilized egg a "human being". how does that makes sense. edit: added links |
DreamingBeatsJan 28, 2017 10:05 PM
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
| H.R.36 - Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act That is only one I find reasonable and id support so long as it allows for abortion for medical issues. Most abortions take place way before this anyway and ones after nearly entirely medical reasons. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| What exactly does the GOP want to do with all of those crack babies? |
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Nvortex said: What exactly does the GOP want to do with all of those crack babies? Put them in private for profit prisons to make money off them |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| Like "Defund Planned Parenthood" when that has nothing to do w/ abortion and all to do with contraception. "We aren't mixing religion and politics, we are just against abortion! That's why Planned Parenthood has to go!" - 3% of PP's expenses go towards abortions, and 0% of that 3% comes from govt. funding. Meanwhile something like 42% is for contraception and 43% is STD testing. No wonder the South as a whole is where most teen pregnancies occur. |
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| i don't even understand what people benefit from banning abortion... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| List looks good. Full support. DreamingBeats said: How does that not make sense? Biology.what. they're trying to make a fertilized egg a "human being". how does that makes sense. Kuma said: Maybe the babies that get to live?i don't even understand what people benefit from banning abortion... |
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BurntJelly said: who support their future? who will pay for them? do you want them to life misserably?Kuma said: Maybe the babies that get to live?i don't even understand what people benefit from banning abortion... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
BurntJelly said: Well no, technically biology would refer to it as a zygote, the combination of a sperm and egg found during the germinal period of development. In fact, with even the slightest tinkering you could have that "human" develop into a skin cell or anything else. Although too be frank, the zygote doesn't even attach to the mother's uterus until roughly 10-14 days after conception and there are many drugs that can make it a guarantee that this won't happen - which is neither called an abortion nor directly "kills" the lump of cells (which again is ridiculous to call a human as their make-up is more similar to a cancer cell than the cell of a baby)DreamingBeats said: How does that not make sense? Biology.what. they're trying to make a fertilized egg a "human being". how does that makes sense. |
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BurntJelly said: DreamingBeats said: How does that not make sense? Biology.what. they're trying to make a fertilized egg a "human being". how does that makes sense. Biology... just going to post this again in this thread Life is defined different for different lifeforms. How do you know if a person has died? Well you check: -Are they breathing? -Do they have a pulse? -Do they have brainwaves? Now lets apply this to a fertilized egg -Is it breathing? No, it is not breathing and has no lungs -Does it have a pulse? No, it has no pulse or heart or circulatory system -Does it have brainwaves? No, it has no brainwaves and no brain or nervous system. It is alive but not like a human is. Even though it is different from a sperm it's criteria for life is more like a sperm. Clearly a zigot is not the same as a human even though it is a very early stage of human development. The further developed it is the closer it is to being able to fit criteria for a human life but this isn't really complete till 20 weeks before having conciousness. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| You only need to make one you fucking retards. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
DreamingBeats said: It doesn'twhat. they're trying to make a fertilized egg a "human being". how does that makes sense. Nvortex said: They'll sell their organs online, obviouslyWhat exactly does the GOP want to do with all of those crack babies? |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
| Well yeah....before the whole "SJW" movement came along. Everybody KNEW who the TRUE "Regressives" were. And I'm not trying to defend SJWs or anything. But.....how many SJWs have a position in congress? And how many GOPers that actively want to restrict reproduction rights are in congress? I'm just stating the facts. |
| Good job. Let's see what they can do. Hopefully pass it all. |
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Ratohnhaketon said: Good job. Let's see what they can do. Hopefully pass it all. I'm guessing you're not female. |
JustALEX said: You don't become an expert in biology and human development just because you have a vajayjay between your legs. Virtue signal someone else.Ratohnhaketon said: Good job. Let's see what they can do. Hopefully pass it all. I'm guessing you're not female. |
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Ratohnhaketon said: You don't become an expert in biology and human development just because you have a vajayjay between your legs. Virtue signal someone else. Oh for the love of.... Really, "Virture Signal"? Nigga....the only virtual signaling I'm concerned with is FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. The reason why abortion is legal is because it falls under that category since the mother's rights override the non-rights of an unviable fetus. BTW....I also care about MALE reproductive rights. I believe that MALES should be able to "Opt-out" of being fathers just like females can "Opt-out". Guess who I'm fucking virtue signalling there? MY FUCKING GENDER! |
| BTW....let me paint the picture.... The majority of women who get abortions are usually the poor. A kid is horribly expensive. Guess what motherfuckers? More kids to poor families means more fucking WELFARE! A bigger burden on us the TAXPAYERS! Oh but that's the thing....the GOP doesn't like giving welfare and other social programs. Yeah....they're "Pro-Life" alright. Until that fucking life is out of the womb and needs to be fed....then they don't give two fucks. |
| @JustALEX - 1. I don't appreciate the racial slur. Let me guess you're some paling suburban twink who thinks using naughty words makes your vocabulary colorful. 2. "Murdering babies is FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION"...uhh what? Maybe you missed the memo because the very first inalienable right in the Declaration of Independence - the document that predates the Constitution - is "life." 3. There are actually plenty of pro-life advocacy groups that reach out and do what they can to financially and emotionally support women through their pregnancies and, if they so choose, to help the children find reputable foster care. 4. It's a non-sequitur to say "You don't care what happens after the baby is born, ergo I get to kill it!" On a side note, I don't believe men should opt out either. Take some damn responsibility and show integrity. |
ZekkenshinJan 29, 2017 10:14 AM
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| It is irresponsible to bring a baby into the world when you are financially incapable to raise it. |
Ratohnhaketon said: 2. "Murdering babies is FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION"...uhh what? Maybe you missed the memo because the very first inalienable right in the Declaration of Independence - the document that predates the Constitution - is "life." Murdering babies is such a bullshit way to phrase abortion. A zygote is not a baby, a fetus is not a baby...I mean is it genocide everytime a guy jerks off? |
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| @Ratohnhaketon 1. Lol, suburban.....I fucking wish. 2. I didn't know a fetus was a "Baby".....oh wait, it's not. 3. Those groups are clearly not enough to keep close to a MILLION abortions happening every year in the United States. Do YOU as a Taxpayer want an even bigger burden going to welfare and other social programs? I sure as fuck don't! 4. If you are poor and you KNOW it will be nothing but hardship to financially and socially take care of a child, why the fuck are you going to try? This isn't a movie where the MC gets through all the hardships and "Makes it". In the real world, if you're poor, the LAST thing you want is another person to feed and take care of....especially a baby that requires a lot of attention and love. Leave the baby-making process to people who can AFFORD it or at the very least want to make the effort and have LOVE to give. If you desperately want an abortion....you probably don't have that love. Again....why would you subject that child to a loveless, financially difficult world? Yes responsibility is great....guess what? Humans are fucking terrible at responsibility. |
traed said: or raise them as soldiers from a very young age Persian immortals style since no one else wants them right?Nvortex said: What exactly does the GOP want to do with all of those crack babies? Put them in private for profit prisons to make money off them Full support for this. My view is that abortion should be extremely restricted but not completely unattainable if it is an emergency situation. I love how pro choice activists say all this shit but fail to realize the reason they can say them is because their moms gave them a chance at life. Stupidity at its best. |
ThRippJckJan 29, 2017 11:37 AM
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Momono said: It is irresponsible to bring a baby into the world when you are financially incapable to raise it. It's irresponsible to get pregnant if you can't raise a child |
Kuma said: BurntJelly said: who support their future? who will pay for them? do you want them to life misserably?Maybe the babies that get to live? I'd hazard to guess that most people would rather live a miserable life than be killed off. Quality of life seems to be secondary to actually having a life to live in the first place. I think it's also bad (quite awful actually) reasoning to say a person can only be allowed to live and not be murdered if someone will take care of them. I mean we don't go around and round up those living miserable lives and execute them. Even if you were living a miserable life, you wouldn't want someone else to make that call for you. traed said: H.R.36 - Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act That is only one I find reasonable and id support so long as it allows for abortion for medical issues. Most abortions take place way before this anyway and ones after nearly entirely medical reasons. You don't think that if a baby survives an abortion attempt that it should be allowed to live? You can't really argue you care for human life at all or that viability actually matters to you when it comes to killing the child in the womb. Population control would be the only reason you have left. Also, along that line of reasoning, if a baby that was actually viable is killed by abortion, do you consider that murder? I feel that you may have mentioned some criteria before, but it most likely wasn't clear. Is it murder only after they are born, or a certain age or a certain point in development? Bobby2Hands said: Ratohnhaketon said: 2. "Murdering babies is FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION"...uhh what? Maybe you missed the memo because the very first inalienable right in the Declaration of Independence - the document that predates the Constitution - is "life." Murdering babies is such a bullshit way to phrase abortion. A zygote is not a baby, a fetus is not a baby...I mean is it genocide everytime a guy jerks off? What's BS about it? It seems that trying to hide behind terminology is really what is BS, and that just so happens to be a common trait of objectionable acts. If a pregnant woman is attacked and the child in her womb is killed, she doesn't say "I lost my fetus!" Or do you on the other hand say, "no big deal, it was just a fetus"? Baby, child, son, daughter etc are all terms interchangeable for the life growing in the womb, and there are some cultures that use a single term for all stages up to birth. Even the term pregnant in most cases is just a translation of "with child." Getting caught up on terminology indicates an avoidance of the meat of an issue, because you can just brush it off as "it was just a _" as people have done for many other human traits. Freedom begins with not being compelled to engage in an act for which you know the consequences. The choice of not having or having a child begins with the choice of controlling yourself and keeping it in your pants. |
RedRoseFringJan 29, 2017 11:58 AM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| I think it is quite scary that the issue of self-control is completely thrown out the window when it comes to this. Reading some statements on this issue, one with no knowledge of biological function would think that babies just appear in wombs with no inciting act or form at random outta nowhere. People jump from not being able to financially raise a kid to a kid being on the way and wondering to kill it or what. Like, isn't there a step in-between somewhere there? Is there some magic we're missing? |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Freedom begins with not being compelled to engage in an act for which you know the consequences. The choice of not having or having a child begins with the choice of controlling yourself and keeping it in your pants. oh come on dude, you know it doesn't work like that in the real world. Areas that practice abstinence instead of proper sex education have the highest rate of teen pregnancies. Not to mention, condoms break, people forget and to take the pill and oh yeah, rape and incest happen. Having the option for abortion is an important part of any self respecting modern health care system. |
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Bobby2Hands said: RedRoseFring said: Freedom begins with not being compelled to engage in an act for which you know the consequences. The choice of not having or having a child begins with the choice of controlling yourself and keeping it in your pants. oh come on dude, you know it doesn't work like that in the real world. Areas that practice abstinence instead of proper sex education have the highest rate of teen pregnancies. Not to mention, condoms break, people forget and to take the pill and oh yeah, rape and incest happen. Having the option for abortion is an important part of any self respecting modern health care system. Don't you mean abstinence-only education? I'm pretty sure areas that practice abstinence would have 0 rates, logically speaking. The problem with abstinence only education is the same problem as without: people choose not to control themselves. Condoms do break, but do you think the large number of abortions are due to condoms breaking? What percentage do you think are attributed to rape or incest? Even if everything were brought down to only cases involving failed contraception, the change would be significant. Even then, is the implication that people should not attempt to control their desires? There is simply no responsibility to be had when engaging in the act, so how can people be surprised when the biggest consequence is ignored because people decided self-control is unfashionable? Having the option for killing another so you wouldn't take responsibility is hardly something I would call "respectful." Then again, killing undesirables is a step many have seen as necessary for "civilization." |
RedRoseFringJan 29, 2017 12:26 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Bobby2Hands said: oh come on dude, you know it doesn't work like that in the real world. Areas that practice abstinence instead of proper sex education have the highest rate of teen pregnancies. Not to mention, condoms break, people forget and to take the pill and oh yeah, rape and incest happen. Having the option for abortion is an important part of any self respecting modern health care system. Who said anything about abstinence-only education? Telling people to just "keep it in their pants" is what abstinence only education is all about. |
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Ivich said: Yes, one doesnt invalidate the other. But if you get someone pregnant, there's still a plan BMomono said: It is irresponsible to bring a baby into the world when you are financially incapable to raise it. It's irresponsible to get pregnant if you can't raise a child |
| And this is the the first real issue I disagree with them on. We already have way to many stupid people please give them a way to get rid of the offspring only going to make more as someone said "crack babies" |
| PSN:ShadowStrike002 2x national and 2x all-American wrestler  |
JustALEX said: The reason why abortion is legal is because it falls under that category since the mother's rights override the non-rights of an unviable fetus. Uhhh no it's not. It has to do with something called bodily autonomy. RedRoseFring said: You don't think that if a baby survives an abortion attempt that it should be allowed to live? You can't really argue you care for human life at all or that viability actually matters to you when it comes to killing the child in the womb. Population control would be the only reason you have left. Also, along that line of reasoning, if a baby that was actually viable is killed by abortion, do you consider that murder? I feel that you may have mentioned some criteria before, but it most likely wasn't clear. Is it murder only after they are born, or a certain age or a certain point in development? Calm down. I didn't read it and thought it meant the one who birthed it is forced to be who raises it. Aside from that they can't live outside the womb before 20 weeks (earliest born that lived was 22 weeks iirc) so that already goes with what I already said so then that would be fine too. |
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| Jesus, this topic comes up too damn often. I don't know a whole lot about abortion and all of the specifics precisely, but guys, accidents do happen. It's either, get rid of a fucking egg, or ruin the lives of the mother, the to-be child, and associated parties. |
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RedRoseFring said: Kuma said: who support their future? who will pay for them? do you want them to life misserably? I'd hazard to guess that most people would rather live a miserable life than be killed off. Quality of life seems to be secondary to actually having a life to live in the first place. I think it's also bad (quite awful actually) reasoning to say a person can only be allowed to live and not be murdered if someone will take care of them. I mean we don't go around and round up those living miserable lives and execute them. Even if you were living a miserable life, you wouldn't want someone else to make that call for you. as if they are live to begin with.... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Bobby2Hands said: Telling people to just "keep it in their pants" is what abstinence only education is all about. You can tell people to keep it in their pants and still tell them the consequences of sex and protections available. The problem is that telling people to control themselves doesn't seem like an option that is even seriously considered, and is pointless in a culture where sex is cheap. Telling people to control themselves while pushing the very thing they should keep away from and giving them ways to escape responsibility is useless. traed said: Calm down. I didn't read it and thought it meant the one who birthed it is forced to be who raises it. Aside from that they can't live outside the womb before 20 weeks (earliest born that lived was 22 weeks iirc) so that already goes with what I already said so then that would be fine too. I assumed you read it before responding, my bad. Even then, I'm still curious about which point you consider it to be murder. Your post above implies not till birth. Many people push a 24 week limit as well, and that is 2 weeks more. Kuma said: RedRoseFring said: I'd hazard to guess that most people would rather live a miserable life than be killed off. Quality of life seems to be secondary to actually having a life to live in the first place. I think it's also bad (quite awful actually) reasoning to say a person can only be allowed to live and not be murdered if someone will take care of them. I mean we don't go around and round up those living miserable lives and execute them. Even if you were living a miserable life, you wouldn't want someone else to make that call for you. as if they are live to begin with.... Um....yes they are. Were you unaware of that? You think they start out dead in the womb? |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Um....yes they are. Were you unaware of that? You think they start out dead in the womb? are our sperm human being? are ovarium human being? are zigot human being? yes they are alive in sense of biological organism... but no, they are not human being since they don't have consciousness on it's own... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Kuma said: RedRoseFring said: Um....yes they are. Were you unaware of that? You think they start out dead in the womb? are our sperm human being? are ovarium human being? are zigot human being? yes they are alive in sense of biological organism... but no, they are not human being since they don't have consciousness on it's own... Of course not. A sperm or egg is a diploid cell of whomever it comes from. Did you not know that? You do agree they are alive though, so why the pretense? So babies aren't human beings because they don't have your level of consciousness either? What level of consciousness qualifies as "human being"? What makes your choice less arbitrary than another person who decides it is at 10 a person actually counts as a human being? |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: Even then, I'm still curious about which point you consider it to be murder. Your post above implies not till birth. Many people push a 24 week limit as well, and that is 2 weeks more. Murder is just a term to describe homicide laws. In countries where abortion is illegal it's not charged as simply homicide but abortion. 24 weeks has to do with rate of survival without complications http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/09/04/smallest-preemies-more-likely-survive-without-complications/71721304/ Pro-lifers should shift from banning abortion to supporting technology for safer birth control, birth control for men, and creating artificial wombs and performing a foetal transplant. Abortion would become less common if having a foetus transferred to an artificial womb or another woman's womb was an option. I assume an artificial womb is much more attainably realistic than a foetal transplant though. |
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RedRoseFring said: Kuma said: are our sperm human being? are ovarium human being? are zigot human being? yes they are alive in sense of biological organism... but no, they are not human being since they don't have consciousness on it's own... Of course not. A sperm or egg is a diploid cell of whomever it comes from. Did you not know that? You do agree they are alive though, so why the pretense? So babies aren't human beings because they don't have your level of consciousness either? What level of consciousness qualifies as "human being"? What makes your choice less arbitrary than another person who decides it is at 10 a person actually counts as a human being? every biological creature in the earth is alive, duh... babies already have conciousness... their brain cell is active.. WTF? of course i don't supporting too old abortion, heck, i don't even supporting abortion whenever they want because making people lack of responsibilities... however, pro-life even sacrificing even more life... the life of that babis, and life people who have to rise them even they don't want/can't too.. i wouldn't give a damn if healthcare and family support program in america is good, but in reality, your welfare program suck... they almost have little chance to life decently... i am a conservative as it can... i don't even supporting pre marriage sex live... however, againt's abortion doesn't benefiting anyone except your own ego and arbitary morality... morality purpose should be comunity prosperity, not your own rightfulness and justification... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
traed said: RedRoseFring said: Even then, I'm still curious about which point you consider it to be murder. Your post above implies not till birth. Many people push a 24 week limit as well, and that is 2 weeks more. Murder is just a term to describe homicide laws. In countries where abortion is illegal it's not charged as simply homicide but abortion. 24 weeks has to do with rate of survival without complications http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/09/04/smallest-preemies-more-likely-survive-without-complications/71721304/ Pro-lifers should shift from banning abortion to supporting technology for safer birth control, birth control for men, and creating artificial wombs and performing a foetal transplant. Abortion would become less common if having a foetus transferred to an artificial womb or another woman's womb was an option. I assume an artificial womb is much more attainably realistic than a foetal transplant though. So you only consider "murder" what is legally acceptable at the time? Let me re-phrase the question then. At what point in time of development do you think it is wrong to kill someone? A week number or maybe in years? Also, survival rates are not absolute, so what percent do you think is acceptable? 90% 50% 10%? Also, what survival rate would you personally accept for yourself before you'd let someone else end your life? Would you take a procedure with a 50% chance to save you? What about 10%? Yes, abortion would be less common if women had even better ways of avoiding responsibility, but that doesn't solve the root issue, does it? One can seek for male birth control while also preventing any more children from being killed. That's a "why not both?" situation? After all, stopping the killing is the most effective way of stopping lives from being lost. Kuma said: every biological creature in the earth is alive, duh... babies already have conciousness... their brain cell is active.. WTF? of course i don't supporting too old abortion, heck, i don't even supporting abortion whenever they want because making people lack of responsibilities... however, pro-life even sacrificing even more life... the life of that babis, and life people who have to rise them even they don't want/can't too.. i wouldn't give a damn if healthcare and family support program in america is good, but in reality, your welfare program suck... they almost have little chance to life decently... i am a conservative as it can... i don't even supporting pre marriage sex live... however, againt's abortion doesn't benefiting anyone except your own ego and arbitary morality... morality purpose should be comunity prosperity, not your own rightfulness and justification... So consciousness to you is brain activity? What level of brain activity would qualify as "human being" then? Would a person in a coma with minimal brain activity count? So is it fine if a person is just a percent below your optimal brain activity, but once they hit it, then it's murder? Are you also aware that the brain has already begun to form by the time abortions are allowed? And in many cases those parts are preserved with "less crunchy" abortion techniques? What percentage of brain formation is acceptable to you then? Even children's brains are not fully formed and they continue to develop into adulthood. You are also repeating the same old argument of "it is better to kill them than having a miserable life." Would you rather someone killed you if your life were miserable? Would you go to an orphanage and tell the children there that their lives are worth less or they should have been killed rather than be put there? That argument still makes little sense. "Doesn't benefit anyone?" Would you like me to point you to people who were almost aborted and are now living and decry the act? Even those who had miserable begins and do not regret them because (surprise, surprise) they are still alive today? You think this is for myself? I was already born. I just don't take that privilege as an excuse to deny others of their right to be so as well. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: So you only consider "murder" what is legally acceptable at the time? Let me re-phrase the question then. At what point in time of development do you think it is wrong to kill someone? A week number or maybe in years? Also, survival rates are not absolute, so what percent do you think is acceptable? 90% 50% 10%? Also, what survival rate would you personally accept for yourself before you'd let someone else end your life? Would you take a procedure with a 50% chance to save you? What about 10%? Yes, abortion would be less common if women had even better ways of avoiding responsibility, but that doesn't solve the root issue, does it? One can seek for male birth control while also preventing any more children from being killed. That's a "why not both?" situation? After all, stopping the killing is the most effective way of stopping lives from being lost. 20 weeks is when it starts being questionable. It being unfortunate or wrong differs by situation. I'm just saying what it is likely based on. You also might be talking about something not as recent where you heard that. The further back in time you go the lower the survival. You have two options. Safer medical abortion, or unsafe back alley abortion. This is why adding more options is more useful. |
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RedRoseFring said: Kuma said: every biological creature in the earth is alive, duh... babies already have conciousness... their brain cell is active.. WTF? of course i don't supporting too old abortion, heck, i don't even supporting abortion whenever they want because making people lack of responsibilities... however, pro-life even sacrificing even more life... the life of that babis, and life people who have to rise them even they don't want/can't too.. i wouldn't give a damn if healthcare and family support program in america is good, but in reality, your welfare program suck... they almost have little chance to life decently... i am a conservative as it can... i don't even supporting pre marriage sex live... however, againt's abortion doesn't benefiting anyone except your own ego and arbitary morality... morality purpose should be comunity prosperity, not your own rightfulness and justification... So consciousness to you is brain activity? What level of brain activity would qualify as "human being" then? Would a person in a coma with minimal brain activity count? So is it fine if a person is just a percent below your optimal brain activity, but once they hit it, then it's murder? Are you also aware that the brain has already begun to form by the time abortions are allowed? And in many cases those parts are preserved with "less crunchy" abortion techniques? What percentage of brain formation is acceptable to you then? Even children's brains are not fully formed and they continue to develop into adulthood. you think why if there is people in coma, usually it family that asked does they need euthanasia or not? you sounding like murder always because one side because heartless devil incarnate... people murdered in war, people murdered because self defense, people murdered because revenge... you can't even simply generelize murderer, let alone abortion that hardly even count as "murderer"... so yes, i agree to limiting abortion to certain degree, but this is not what it should be like lot of people in thread already mentioned it reason... RedRoseFring said: You are also repeating the same old argument of "it is better to kill them than having a miserable life." Would you rather someone killed you if your life were miserable? Would you go to an orphanage and tell the children there that their lives are worth less or they should have been killed rather than be put there? That argument still makes little sense. the difference is hope... those children already has life and have hope... the parent who bear the baby already have no hope to rise them to begin with so they do it because no chose other than abortion (not to mention social stigma tht come to that, which mainly the problem coming from the society than the parents it self)... i don't supporting murderer, again, i don't consider them as human being to begin with, so compare them to children on orphanage and treated them as murderer make little sanse to me too... RedRoseFring said: "Doesn't benefit anyone?" Would you like me to point you to people who were almost aborted and are now living and decry the act? Even those who had miserable begins and do not regret them because (surprise, surprise) they are still alive today? You think this is for myself? I was already born. I just don't take that privilege as an excuse to deny others of their right to be so as well. and how many people regretting because let the kids life and has to bear economic consequence? how many divorece, child abusing,child exploration, human traficking, ETC happened because if that? can you point that too? the point is not miserable it self, but what happened after they born... most people who doesn't support abbortion only care about life it self but after they born, they didn't give a a damn about kids th at parents forced to raise it... i mean it's america... they gone apeshit because simply health care... let alone decent family welfare support program... |
KumaJan 30, 2017 2:33 AM
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
traed said: RedRoseFring said: So you only consider "murder" what is legally acceptable at the time? Let me re-phrase the question then. At what point in time of development do you think it is wrong to kill someone? A week number or maybe in years? Also, survival rates are not absolute, so what percent do you think is acceptable? 90% 50% 10%? Also, what survival rate would you personally accept for yourself before you'd let someone else end your life? Would you take a procedure with a 50% chance to save you? What about 10%? Yes, abortion would be less common if women had even better ways of avoiding responsibility, but that doesn't solve the root issue, does it? One can seek for male birth control while also preventing any more children from being killed. That's a "why not both?" situation? After all, stopping the killing is the most effective way of stopping lives from being lost. 20 weeks is when it starts being questionable. It being unfortunate or wrong differs by situation. I'm just saying what it is likely based on. You also might be talking about something not as recent where you heard that. The further back in time you go the lower the survival. You have two options. Safer medical abortion, or unsafe back alley abortion. This is why adding more options is more useful. I think "starts being questionable" is hardly acceptable for someone's life. No one would accept being killed because the matter of their life was "questionable." Also, the abortion rules don't treat situations independently but lumps them altogether in general limits. You have two options indeed, kill the baby "safely" and the mother survives, or ban the killing so those who still go ahead are responsible for themselves. I mean we could make murder legal so people who don't attempt to do it get endangered, but it seems that many agree trying to kill someone else is not something that should be done "safely." Kuma said: you think why if there is people in coma, usually it family that asked does they need euthanasia or not? you sounding like murder always because one side because heartless devil incarnate... people murdered in war, people murdered because self defense, people murdered because revenge... you can't even simply generelize murderer, let alone abortion that hardly even count as "murderer"... so yes, i agree to limiting abortion to certain degree, but this is not what it should be like lot of people in thread already mentioned it reason... Such family decisions only apply if the person had not previously stated anything in their own will. Even then it is only in assured cases of death. No family member can kill you if there is still a chance for survival. Is the baby in the womb at war? Is it an attack? Then those things are irrelevant in this case. We are talking about a person engaging in an act that leads to the baby in their womb and killing it because it would be inconvenient. Killing someone who doesn't threaten you is certainly murder. A "certain degree" is just as arbitrary as a person who thinks only people of certain colours should be killed, or religions or mental states or physical states, etc. I fail to see how one arbitrary degree is better than another. RedRoseFring said: the difference is hope... those children already has life and have hope... the parent who bear the baby already have no hope to rise them to begin with so they do it because no chose other than abortion (not to mention social stigma tht come to that, which mainly the problem coming from the society than the parents it self)... i don't supporting murderer, again, i don't consider them as human being to begin with, so compare them to children on orphanage and treated them as murderer make little sanse to me too... That makes no sense. The only case in which there is no choice is if both mother and child will die. Otherwise the child can indeed be born and live. Do you realize the impossible catch you set too? Only those who are already born should be excused from being killed....so let's kill those not yet born before they join those we can't kill. That's awful. Many people also did not consider several minorities "people", so what distinction are you making? So only those who you deem to be people can't be killed? What if someone else deems you to not be a person? Can they kill you then? RedRoseFring said: and how many people regretting because let the kids life and has to bear economic consequence? how many divorece, child abusing,child exploration, human traficking, ETC happened because if that? can you point that too? the point is not miserable it self, but what happened after they born... most people who doesn't support abbortion only care about life it self but after they born, they didn't give a a damn about kids th at parents forced to raise it... i mean it's america... they gone apeshit because simply health care... let alone decent family welfare support program... I'd rather have someone regretting rather than ending someone else's life. You are just repeating the same argument without even realizing it: Killing someone is better than them having to go through divorce, abuse, exploitation, human trafficking, etc. How many of those people do you think would willing go to the slaughterhouse because you deem their lives not worth living? That is basically what you are saying, that it is better to die than suffer those things. Quality of life is a secondary issue and it is quite an awful tactic to try and use that to deny people their lives. "You're crippled, and no one is going to take care of you. We can end your life." How many do you think find that reasoning acceptable? Whether anyone would support you or not is not reason to deny someone the chance to live. Just because you will not take care of every victim of war-torn nations doesn't mean that it should be okay to murder them, just like even though no one takes care of the homeless, they cannot be murdered at a whim. Again, saying that because someone else will not take care of your child you will kill them is awful reasoning. That's the reasoning that mother's who have killed their infant children from just a few weeks old to 10 years old have used, but I doubt you would find that acceptable. |
RedRoseFringJan 30, 2017 6:45 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: I think "starts being questionable" is hardly acceptable for someone's life. No one would accept being killed because the matter of their life was "questionable." Also, the abortion rules don't treat situations independently but lumps them altogether in general limits. You have two options indeed, kill the baby "safely" and the mother survives, or ban the killing so those who still go ahead are responsible for themselves. I mean we could make murder legal so people who don't attempt to do it get endangered, but it seems that many agree trying to kill someone else is not something that should be done "safely." Personhood and self awareness doesn't take place at a single point in life but stretched out in different developments. Even for a full grown adult it will differ by situation. So does all laws. A foetus early on isn't a baby especially if it's only a zigote. As for those who have unwanted children or children they can't afford they are more likely to abuse them from stress. As for adopting them off, that only pushes the problem on a system that doesnt work out well many in it. People that live hard lives like that are more likely to wind up being someone that would take someone elses life whether it's drunk driving or murder. |
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traed said: RedRoseFring said: I think "starts being questionable" is hardly acceptable for someone's life. No one would accept being killed because the matter of their life was "questionable." Also, the abortion rules don't treat situations independently but lumps them altogether in general limits. You have two options indeed, kill the baby "safely" and the mother survives, or ban the killing so those who still go ahead are responsible for themselves. I mean we could make murder legal so people who don't attempt to do it get endangered, but it seems that many agree trying to kill someone else is not something that should be done "safely." Personhood and self awareness doesn't take place at a single point in life but stretched out in different developments. Even for a full grown adult it will differ by situation. So does all laws. A foetus early on isn't a baby especially if it's only a zigote. As for those who have unwanted children or children they can't afford they are more likely to abuse them from stress. As for adopting them off, that only pushes the problem on a system that doesnt work out well many in it. People that live hard lives like that are more likely to wind up being someone that would take someone elses life whether it's drunk driving or murder. So are there different murder laws for full grown adults? Are there laws that allow us to kill less developed adults? Again, fleeing to terminology doesn't escape the issue here. All those terms, baby, child, son, daughter, offspring, etc are used interchangeably to refer to the life in the womb and even pregnancy means "with child," and some cultures only have a single word for all stages before birth. Whether someone is more likely to be abused or not is not grounds to deny them life. One could argue the whole viability argument is simply pushing the problem to others willing to take care of the child as well. It is either the right to life matters regardless of willingness of others to take care of them, stage of development, quality or outlook of life. The moment one begins to draw arbitrary conditions is the moment that one admits they really didn't care about it in the first place. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
RedRoseFring said: traed said: Personhood and self awareness doesn't take place at a single point in life but stretched out in different developments. Even for a full grown adult it will differ by situation. So does all laws. A foetus early on isn't a baby especially if it's only a zigote. As for those who have unwanted children or children they can't afford they are more likely to abuse them from stress. As for adopting them off, that only pushes the problem on a system that doesnt work out well many in it. People that live hard lives like that are more likely to wind up being someone that would take someone elses life whether it's drunk driving or murder. So are there different murder laws for full grown adults? Are there laws that allow us to kill less developed adults? Again, fleeing to terminology doesn't escape the issue here. All those terms, baby, child, son, daughter, offspring, etc are used interchangeably to refer to the life in the womb and even pregnancy means "with child," and some cultures only have a single word for all stages before birth. Whether someone is more likely to be abused or not is not grounds to deny them life. One could argue the whole viability argument is simply pushing the problem to others willing to take care of the child as well. It is either the right to life matters regardless of willingness of others to take care of them, stage of development, quality or outlook of life. The moment one begins to draw arbitrary conditions is the moment that one admits they really didn't care about it in the first place. Yes, mostly it has to do with motive differences and death count. Yes, execution, self defence, killing people in war, euthanasia, and removal from life support. Just because you use words wrong doesn't make it true.You're using the term baby and murder just for manipulative purposes instead of actually giving a real argument. Some cultures don't have a name for green, it doesnt mean green and blue are the same. So you're basically saying you don't care about their quality of life. Then what about your arbitrary line between human and animal even though humans are by all definitions animals. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
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