| Atheism doesn't really make sense being a choice, since most of atheists don't think it makes sense to believe on those things, even if they wished, it's either because they have never been into a religion or either because they started questioning the veracity or the small evidences of their religions and gave up them because they didn't have too much choise, also because of the lack of faith. There is a group of atheists became atheists because of another atheists or because of an ideology (like comunists groups), but this group is really small. Atheists, have ever you wished to believe in God or any kind of religion or even metaphysical? If so, why would you think that is still a choice? For me it is partially, but it's more like a self conclusion I had. PS: I'm not saying a choice as a 'rational decision' or a true condition but as a realization for those who didn't undertand. |
FragMentizedAug 26, 2016 8:30 AM
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| It's a trend donthitmeplease I'd say it's a decision based on one's own views and observations.Or maybe they simply lost faith after a hard-hitting experience. I'd chalk up the spreading of it to group psychosis just like with most ideologies and religions and whatever else. |
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| It's choice. Anything you can choose, is a choice. Also there are many REAL atheists (not crybabies who follow trends) who came to conclusion of that there is no god by investigating and learning. Plus most of religious people are religious because their parents are (basically brainwashing). Having no religion doesn't make you automatically atheist. Religions are tools, manipulative organizations. You can believe in god without religion. Also can you explain what is faith to you? Believing in something of which you have no proof of? Btw, I am Pastafarian. I believe in Flying Spaghetti Monster. May you be touched by his noodly appendage. Ramen. |
DeusAug 24, 2016 12:35 PM
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Frag- said: Atheism doesn't really make sense being a choice, since most of atheists don't think it makes sense to believe on those things Atheists don't believe in choices? it's either because they have never been into a religion or either because they started questioning the veracity or the small evidences of their religions Both of which are actions that you choose to do. and gave up them because they didn't have too much choise, Except they did. They chose to follow their logical train of thought and become an atheist. also because of the lack of faith. Atheist choose not to have faith, while theists choose to have faith. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
Dude, I've been an atheist for 20 years (aka since before you were born and longer than you have even been alive) It's a little insulting when somebody like this tries to tell you that you are just part of a trend. |
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| Maybe for some people they have the mental gymnastics capable of deluding themselves into believing in a religion. In that case it's a choice. But for me, and I assume most other sensible agnostic atheists, it's not a choice. It's something so obviously true you have no other choice but to accept. It's as much of a truth as gravity itself. Sensible people are incapable of denying the truth just because they don't like it. |
Bobby2Hands said: Dude, I've been an atheist for 20 years (aka since before you were born and longer than you have even been alive) It's a little insulting when somebody like this tries to tell you that you are just part of a trend. It's a joke courtesy of my tasteless humour.The proper answer was practically half a centimeter below that. Imagine the shit I get as a Jew then in a mostly antisemitic country d (^_^) b |
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Erg_Orgy said: Bobby2Hands said: Dude, I've been an atheist for 20 years (aka since before you were born and longer than you have even been alive) It's a little insulting when somebody like this tries to tell you that you are just part of a trend. It's a joke courtesy of my tasteless humour.The proper answer was practically half a centimeter below that. Imagine the shit I get as a Jew then in a mostly antisemitic country d (^_^) b The bit a half centimetre below is just as clueless. Erg_Orgy said: I'd say it's a decision based on one's own views and observations.Or maybe they simply lost faith after a hard-hitting experience. I'd chalk up the spreading of it to group psychosis just like with most ideologies and religions and whatever else. I didn't stop believing because of some bad experience. I stopped believing in god at age seven when I hadn't even heard the word atheist. I just naturally stopped believing in gods the same way I stopped believing in Santa (and yes I know a lot of religious folks hate that analogy) And then you go on to chalk it up to group psychosis? Look here buddy boy, I may very well have psychosis but I assure it has nothing to do with my lack of belief in gods :p |
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| It is a choice, but it is usually a rational choice rather than an emotional one. I grew up agnostic and I know deep down that atheism is far more rational than theism. Religion doesn't appeal to my sense of logic or rationality, but to my emotions, like fear and sadness. |
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| People are misundertanding this a lot, they become atheists as a conclusion in their lifes not simply as a choice. It's a choice in good part there, but it's most likely a realization. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| Not really, there's a ton of people (especially in the 21st century) raised in irreligious families who were never even introduced to the idea of God as children, the vast majority of the reason why people are religious is because it's what they were introduced to by their family, and if they 'choose' to stop believing then it is a choice. There definitely are cynical children who always were iffy on some of the stranger concepts in Christianity such as plausibility of Noah's Arc, and etc, but I think it's more just a personality facet so I wouldn't say you're born not believing in something, you still make that choice not to believe after a while. |
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| @Jerkhov Yep, same with religion too, children didn't choose to have it, they were taught that way or have affected by persuasive brainwashing. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| One does not choose to be an atheist. Rather, one chooses not to be a theist, termed a nontheist. However, scholars and linguists have decided that nontheism is an umbrella term and labelled various degrees of non-belief (and even qualified belief) below it, atheism being one of them. The term atheist is kind of strange anyway: being against something (or without) subtly implies the existence of said something (to be against), which I find to be slightly amusing actually. |
8oomerAug 24, 2016 2:04 PM
| Avatar: Anzu Kadotani from Girls und Panzer. XMas awesomeness version by Charenji :) Sig by MissIntrovert.  |
TiaDee said: Realization leads to what you understand and understanding something is not always a choise.Frag- said: People are misundertanding this a lot, they become atheists as a conclusion in their lifes not simply as a choice. It's a choice in good part there, but it's most likely a realization. A realisation that lead to a choice, they could have just as well remained religious (going by your example) god knows there are plenty of religious people like that. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| Not for me It just came naturally to me |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
| I got a question for you @Frag- What do you believe? Are you theist, deist, atheist, agnostic or something else? Also if you are religious, why are you religious, because your parents/guardians are? Or did you choose it based on obtained knowledge? |
| |
Darkingold said: You're reading waay too much into that. Think about it: the term atheist itself wouldn't exist if theism didn't.If you deny something's existence, how the hell does it means you also say it exists? I think you misunderstand concept of atheism like many people @8oomer If you still have a problem with that then simply consider it a pun (of sorts), hence my amusement. Btw, for the record I consider myself as close to being an atheist as can be. The only niggling bit is the non-existence of God can't be proven* either but given the lack of hard evidence of divine intervention throughout history then affirmed atheism is far more plausible than theism. * Edit: it's not our job to try to disprove God's existence anyway; the burden of proof lies with theists to prove His existence. And capitalizing God and His is not an endorsement; I'm just using them as a proper noun for the monotheist's super-dude being. |
8oomerAug 24, 2016 2:40 PM
| Avatar: Anzu Kadotani from Girls und Panzer. XMas awesomeness version by Charenji :) Sig by MissIntrovert. |
8oomer said: Darkingold said: You're reading waay too much into that. Think about it: the term atheist itself wouldn't exist if theism didn't.If you deny something's existence, how the hell does it means you also say it exists? I think you misunderstand concept of atheism like many people @8oomer If you still have a problem with that then simply consider it a pun (of sorts), hence my amusement. Btw, for the record I consider myself as close to being an atheist as can be. The only niggling bit is the non-existence of God can't be proven either but given the lack of hard evidence of divine intervention throughout history then affirmed atheism is far more plausible than theism. Understood. Well it's like, theism is theory and atheism is counter argument, If no one said god exists, atheists wouldn't have been called atheists, yeah it seems interesting. Myself I'm far from being theist. I consider possibility of existence of powerful being, but no, I won't worship it or pray for it. Also I look at religions simply as organizations with morals and basic codes. I'm not part of people who think belief in god must be associated with religion. So my opinion is, if "one almighty" god exists, its either very advanced civilization, extremely powerful entity or something like that. About gods like Apollo, Thor, etc. I think if they existed, they were either advanced humans or aliens. I don't deny god's existence, I just deny validity and reliability of religions which are almost outdated tools of manipulation. |
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Darkingold said: Given that dogs, cats and domesticated animals like horses have some level of intelligence then we would be gods to them, I should think :) We may not be actual gods but our abilities and achievements (to fly in airplanes, harness nuclear power, travel to the Moon, stave off death by treating disease, organ transplants, communicate with others of our species on the other side of the world by talking into a slim box the size of our hand). If not gods then, through our technology, godlike.So my opinion is, if "one almighty" god exists, its either very advanced civilization, extremely powerful entity or something like that. About gods like Apollo, Thor, etc. I think if they existed, they were either advanced humans or aliens. Btw I'd made an edit to my last post but not before your own. It doesn't change the narrative, though. |
8oomerAug 24, 2016 2:40 PM
| Avatar: Anzu Kadotani from Girls und Panzer. XMas awesomeness version by Charenji :) Sig by MissIntrovert. |
Darkingold said: This is the kind of question I was waiting haha.I got a question for you @Frag- What do you believe? Are you theist, deist, atheist, agnostic or something else? Also if you are religious, why are you religious, because your parents/guardians are? Or did you choose it based on obtained knowledge? I'd say I'm an agnostic atheist and to be honest I wished to believe in something, many atheists think that way too, it is partially a choise, but it is most likely a self conclusion that happens, let's say naturally. Unless if you have never been in a religion, born in an atheistic family for example, this one is that doesn't really choose. |
FragMentizedDec 15, 2016 4:21 PM
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| I think atheism and theism has some biological predisposition along with environmental influence but I still think people have some degree of free will. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| You know its something Ive pondered is it a choice. Part of me thinks yes because you decide its your belief but then again maybe belief isn't a choice and is something you just come to know or don't know. Like I tried to choose to believe there was a God but it was never real because I could choose all I want deep down I didn't believe. Then years later I came to believe but didn't actively make a choice it just sort of became my reality. |
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Oceano said: Possibly you haven't questioned enough, or fully grasped enough biology/physics.For me it wasn't. I actually got kinda scared when I started doubting god's existence lol Take airplanes. Looking at one on the ground, like a big 4 engine one. What keeps something that big from falling out of the sky? Well, if you learn about Bernoulli's principle, airflow over an airfoil creates lift, etc. once you really understand it the question becomes not "how does that NOT fall out of the sky" to "how COULD that possibly fall out of the sky (given sufficient thrust resulting in airflow over the wing and huge lift). It's the same with biology or geology or astronomy where taken altogether the very idea of miracles and omnipotent beings becomes so much silliness in comparison. Watch enough science shows like NOVA or Cosmos and eventually the wonders of the real world blow away the mystical/supernatural ones. |
| Avatar: Anzu Kadotani from Girls und Panzer. XMas awesomeness version by Charenji :) Sig by MissIntrovert. |
| Of course it's a choice, just like any other position a person takes. There are different reasons for it, being skeptical, being hurt in the past by a religious person, wanting to follow a trend, emotional reasons, fear of the implications of theism, uncertainty, hatred of God/gods, parental influence, etc. There are just as many variable reasons for any position a person takes on the issue. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| Unless you're living in a country without religious freedom, whatever faith you have is a choice. So yes, atheism is a choice regardless of how you came to it either through realization or peer influence. |
| No one can force you to not believe in a god, therefore it is a choice. |
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| It is a choice the same way how people choose not to watch anime or not play golf. I personally don't drink whiskey, which makes me an anti-whiskeyist. |
8oomer said: Oceano said: For me it wasn't. I actually got kinda scared when I started doubting god's existence lol It's the same with biology or geology or astronomy where taken altogether the very idea of miracles and omnipotent beings becomes so much silliness in comparison. Watch enough science shows like NOVA or Cosmos and eventually the wonders of the real world blow away the mystical/supernatural ones. Shouldn't stop someone believing in God, a human who creates cells through science is technically God to that new life. Possible something created us still. Just not with space magic. |
|
| I choose to think God doesn't exist. Seems simple enough. But maybe I'm not understanding the question |
  |
Frag- said: They become atheists as a conclusion in their lifes not simply as a choice. It's a choice in good part there, but it's most likely a realization. This the case for a lot of people who become theists too. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| i choose to be a atheist once I realized religion was horse shit |
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RedCloud said: Because believing or not is a decision you make... Psyotic said: Yeah, when kids are brainwhashed by their parents to believe in something it's their choice as well.This the case for a lot of people who become theists too. |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| Of course it's a choice. One always has the choice to ignore or recognise opinions. |
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Darkingold said: It's choice. Anything you can choose, is a choice. Also there are many REAL atheists (not crybabies who follow trends) who came to conclusion of that there is no god by investigating and learning. Plus most of religious people are religious because their parents are (basically brainwashing). Having no religion doesn't make you automatically atheist. Religions are tools, manipulative organizations. You can believe in god without religion. Also can you explain what is faith to you? Believing in something of which you have no proof of? Btw, I am Pastafarian. I believe in Flying Spaghetti Monster. May you be touched by his noodly appendage. Ramen. Can confirm, the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists!!1!one! Honestly, Darkingold summed it up tbh. I'm atheist since 7 years now and if you start thinking rational, and start questioning religion, you'll be overwhelmed by negative thoughts... Religion is a tool to control people, abusing the ignorance of innocent children to maintain a lie, that is so transparent... I don't want to convince you, if you are religious I'm fine with that, to each his own. |
Frag- said: RedCloud said: Because believing or not is a decision you make... Psyotic said: Yeah, when kids are brainwhashed by their parents to believe in something it's their choice as well.This the case for a lot of people who become theists too. I'm coming from a religious family, used to read the Qur'an in my childhood, and now I'm a convinced atheist. You can always chose, but stupid people will never question natural things, and keep believing lies (arguments) based on a book, that was never mandatory to proof anything that ever happened. But I guess, it's old, so many people believe in it, so it must be right, because having an own opinion is not good *cough*... |
| It is a choice because the entire premise of monotheistic religions is faith. Faith is belief without evidence. |
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RedRoseFring said: Of course it's a choice, just like any other position a person takes. There are different reasons for it, being skeptical, being hurt in the past by a religious person, wanting to follow a trend, emotional reasons, fear of the implications of theism, uncertainty, hatred of God/gods, parental influence, etc. There are just as many variable reasons for any position a person takes on the issue. Id have to agree with what you said. Its a choice but some do not know all of the options until later in their life or do they ever. |
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Frag- said: Atheism doesn't really make sense being a choice, since most of atheists don't think it makes sense to believe on those things, even if they wished I think I see where you're coming from, and I cut off your quote early in order to discuss that specific idea, because it's something I have changed my own mind about in the past. I'll be referring exclusively to the Christian God, because that's likely to be the one you'd make that quote about. There's an idea in some people's minds that atheism is in some way irreversible: i.e. that once you've convinced yourself that Christianity doesn't make sense because of reasons x, y, z, then you'll never be able to undo that process in your own mind while also remaining intellectually honest with yourself. I'd like to contend that idea with the following claim: in the intellectual discourse surrounding the debate of God's existence there exists a satisfactory answer for every purely intellectual contention against God's existence that you hold. I bring up 'purely intellectual' for a good reason, which is that an emotional rebellion against God is something that can't be simply reasoned against. Someone needs to be open to wanting to reconsider their beliefs to be won over, and often that requires finding an example of a Christian doing what the doubter personally consider to be good in the world. Once you've corrected those arguments and ideals by finding appropriate counterarguments which nullify them, you can bring yourself back to a state of agnosticism, and from there you'll finally be able to see the value of Pascal's Wager. Back to my second paragraph, I mainly didn't give you any specific examples of arguments and counterarguments because it's not going to be very productive for me to tear down what you may well consider to be straw-men anyway. In summary, the answer is yes. You can choose your beliefs, and you can genuinely change your state of belief/non-belief multiple times in either direction. It's possible, though it takes humility and a desire to learn how to read and think for yourself. |
| Now you're wondering if there's white text in any of my other posts. Over there, I'm everywhere. I know that. |
| It's a choice. You do realize following a religion is a choice too? (Except islam, that is). |
sokawaiixd said: Same with religion, you have been educated this way because you didn't have choice that, then you conviced yourself it didnt make sense or something like that, you could choise trying to understand things, but then did the conviction happened naturally? You kinda confirmed what I said.Frag- said: Yeah, when kids are brainwhashed by their parents to believe in something it's their choice as well. I'm coming from a religious family, used to read the Qur'an in my childhood, and now I'm a convinced atheist. You can always chose, but stupid people will never question natural things, and keep believing lies (arguments) based on a book, that was never mandatory to proof anything that ever happened. But I guess, it's old, so many people believe in it, so it must be right, because having an own opinion is not good *cough*... |
FragMentizedAug 26, 2016 8:54 AM
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
Frag- said: sokawaiixd said: Same with religion, you have been educated this way because you didn't have choice that, then you conviced yourself it didnt make sense or something like that, you could choise trying to understand things, but then did the conviction happened naturally? You kinda confirmed what I said.I'm coming from a religious family, used to read the Qur'an in my childhood, and now I'm a convinced atheist. You can always chose, but stupid people will never question natural things, and keep believing lies (arguments) based on a book, that was never mandatory to proof anything that ever happened. But I guess, it's old, so many people believe in it, so it must be right, because having an own opinion is not good *cough*... You are right, my parents never gave me an option, they just educated me that way... But, you will learn to question stuff, if you start thinking about everything you'll slowly change your personality and most likely your religion aswell. The conviction happened naturally, I remember when I was 6 YO and asked my mom: "Why are people going to hell, if god predestined our actions?" Guess what, it's either god, being not as good as the books claim him to be, and Lucifer can't be his counterpart. That's when I started to look for flaws, instead of thinking rationally. With ~13-14 I just started thinking rationally and realized that religion is just a big lie. What I wanna say is, don't believe what people tell ya, that's what I did, but don't get lost in negative thoughts. It's kinda funny, I didn't even believed everything what my teachers told me, even in primary school lol... |
| For some reason, I wanted to keep up this thread... |
| Today they say you're crazy, tomorrow they will say you're a genious. |
| Yes. I'm 28, and I became atheist around age 12. By the time I reached age 26, I created "Dragonitsu," a belief system of my own, which does not conflict with science, and lets people be who they are. |
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