Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) 2nd Season Episode 1 Discussion

ijuka said:
Character development? Making him seem bleh early on and becoming win later on = much better than being win right from the getgo.

Some of my favorite characters in the history of anime have been very dislikeable at the start. I still need to say though that if this is what they're going for, Shirou's development is too slow.

Dug_Fin said:
My only real gripe with this episode is lack of ever present feeling

guyuz said:
wow i think this was the worst episode so far. rin was betrayed and it felt like the only thing archer did wrong was steal her cookies. sometimes making things overly dramatic is bad, but this felt like a joke.
archer: "rin i betray you"
rin: "ok, i hate you now tho."

even if this is part of her plan, it seems like terrible acting to me.

also, the love confession seems out of place, unromantic, and serves no purpose.

finally, can't rin use command seals to stop archer from going full retard? and if this is a plot by rin and archer, shouldn't caster know that rin could've stopped archer if she wanted to?

Dug_Fin said:
Hm... my thoughts on this, I liked it (even as a HUGE fan of the VN) I'll admit they got some parts wrong, and it does make Shirou seem different. I reconcile this by simply assuming this is

My only real gripe with this episode is lack of ever present feeling, but I can just play that part of the VN again if I want that, so no biggie there. (For me anyway). Also, and I'm going off on a tangent here, I think its possible Shirou is supposed to be unlikeable. Before you burn me from the stake, remember, Shirou is

Back on track, and in conclusion, I like this episode, and this series, it's not perfect, but it is certainly enjoyable and I can't wait for the next episode to see where it goes (as in differences and similarities since I already know the story at this point).

ijuka said:

The acting part is where Rin appears to not really mind, you seem to have misunderstood.

Rin can use command seals to do that yeah. It's one of the many things that in my opinion make no sense in UBW. It was explained as "well if you don't want to be with me you can do what you want, I'm too proud to blah blah" but UBW has enough of them things making no sense for me to just not feel like worrying about it and just enjoy it in the way i can(cool action scenes and introducing themes).

CookingPriest said:


Thats personality. Not characterization.

The show can establish his psychology and does a decent job at that but the show also removes or alters away all the badass moments that establish Shirou as calculating, capable, snarky person with a LOT Of potential.

Without that, everything after this wil literally feel like an asspull and people just won't about supposed depths of his character, because they won't like him.



Blame them changing the size on the basement.

IN VN it made sense, because if Rin made any move, Caster and Kuizuk would blast her to pieces.
Here she as made to be a threat to caster and the place is way too big.

ijuka said:

I don't think it's really established Shirou like that though, it honestly feels like you let your own opinions about him spice things up way too much.

ijuka said:

I don't think it's really established Shirou like that though, it honestly feels like you let your own opinions about him spice things up way too much.

CookingPriest said:


Thats personality. Not characterization.

The show can establish his psychology and does a decent job at that but the show also removes or alters away all the badass moments that establish Shirou as calculating, capable, snarky person with a LOT Of potential.

Without that, everything after this wil literally feel like an asspull and people just won't about supposed depths of his character, because they won't like him.

Dug_Fin said:


I won't argue that, but I also wouldn't worry to much, some people might want to watch this just as a cool action anime, and more power to them. Some will see it exactly like you say, and I say their loss. And some, might become interested in the VN precisely because something in this anime seemed lacking, and honestly, those are the kinds of people I WANT to became big FSN fans and have discussions on the VN with. So as far as I'm concerned, just think of it as a nice filter so that the people getting into the VN are the RIGHT kind of people. Before I get flamed, I do realize there are many reasons not to like this anime, and I suppose the VN (though honestly I find this hard to fathom/accept). To each there own, but I think my point stands. (Despite my pretentiousness in assuming I know what the right type of fans are and such).

CookingPriest said:


But it IS just pointless action anime without Shirou's depth.

It was already hard to convince people that Shirou is NOT an idiot with DEENpoison being there, but now it will be even harder with Ufotable stickingto STORY enough to be faithful yet making SHirou look like a massive pathetic passive dumb-guy.

Dug_Fin said:


I won't argue that, but I also wouldn't worry to much, some people might want to watch this just as a cool action anime, and more power to them. Some will see it exactly like you say, and I say their loss. And some, might become interested in the VN precisely because something in this anime seemed lacking, and honestly, those are the kinds of people I WANT to became big FSN fans and have discussions on the VN with. So as far as I'm concerned, just think of it as a nice filter so that the people getting into the VN are the RIGHT kind of people. Before I get flamed, I do realize there are many reasons not to like this anime, and I suppose the VN (though honestly I find this hard to fathom/accept). To each there own, but I think my point stands. (Despite my pretentiousness in assuming I know what the right type of fans are and such).

CookingPriest said:


Nope.

ALl we see of SHirou is him not thinking, being passive as fuck, being bossed around by Rin, getting Saber kidnapped and stumbling on NOTHING while running this episode. He feels like an entirely different person.

VN Shirou sure is a sociopath who has problems emotionally and whom people view as a wierdo, etc, but he is also shown to have A LOT of potential, to be calculating and perceptive and to freaking deliver when the time comes.

AT this point I will pretty much count them as entirely separate characters tbh, as I will shirou/rin - really love the VN one, really dislike the show one(way too abusive and one-sided)

ijuka said:
Well like, imo you overestimate how Shirou is in the VN by quite a bit. He doesn't come off as a genius to me, not at all. Not even especially smart. Keep in mind that it needs to narrate what happens from his perspective so that the reader actually understands what is going on.

YggdrasilTM said:

Yeah. Shirou from the VN is a hot blooded idiot teenager hero, not a cool, calculating and snarky superhuman. Sure, sometimes he thinks some snarky remarks, he takes smarts decisions in battle, he is strong willed and earnest.
But he is emotional. He often acts without thinking. He is easily embarrassed, He is oblivious to love towards him (see the poor Sakura). He takes questionable and stupid decisions all the time. He is constantly bossed around by Rin (and frankly, by anyone). That's what he is.

ijuka said:
What I said...

It needs to let the readers know that it's such a long distance down. It doesn't mean he actually thinks so, nor does it mean that he actually doesn't think so. But it doesn't work as an argument like that, because it needs to be described for the reader.

Dragon5xD said:
I love this episode and its opening AND the same time I hate Archer right now.

nocorras said:
Not even really talking about the distance part. He thought about the situation down there before hand and even thought he'd die if he goes down. He does it anyway but at least we know he thinks the situation through (and it had to be done quickly obviously).

It should appear that he thinks the situation through knows he will die but does it anyway because he's so selfless you could almost call him suicidal in these situations. Shirou even notes this himself in the common route.

In the anime it appears like he doesn't think at all and just jumps to save waifu.

CookingPriest said:


Yep Just one of gazzilion SHirou scenes ufo failed at

All add up in making him an unlikeable dense idiot instead of canon-Shirou

ijuka said:

He mostly is an dense idiot, though. Certainly dense, and while not exactly an idiot, he's impulsive and uses his emotions more than logical thinking when figuring out courses of action.

It's approved by Nasu etc. isn't it canon?

nocorras said:
I mean the Lancer fight alone shows he thinks ahead. The whole fight is mostly him thinking ahead of Lancer and using that to his advantage.

It's really not present in the anime at all. Sure Lancer praises him, but as Fai as said before that's Shounen level stuff with how it's portrayed in the anime.

ijuka said:
Alternative universe. I'll just assume that's nasu humor.

His "amazing fast analysis planning ten steps ahead" always seem to be concluded with "OH NO PERSON X IS IN DANGER I MUST SACRIFICE MYSELF TO SAVE HER" and that's impulsive.

ijuka said:
Didn't I address that like twice already?

Anyway, another conclusion: "Stripping Issei is the most logical thing to do!"

ijuka said:
Didn't I address that like twice already?

Anyway, another conclusion: "Stripping Issei is the most logical thing to do!"

nocorras said:


Asking him straight up would be the worst thing to do.

Although the whole thing should have probably been handled in a different manner but yeah.

KamiCity said:
Do you ever shut up?

ijuka said:

In a different manner, indeed. One that might require a bit more planning than an impulsive on-the-fly decision.

ijuka said:

In a different manner, indeed. One that might require a bit more planning than an impulsive on-the-fly decision.

CookingPriest said:

It simply ignored the concept of human empathy and socialboundaries,which is quite usual for sociopaths

YggdrasilTM said:


So, not Shirou, that is easily embarrassed and very sensible of the personal boundaries.

nocorras said:


I mean the smart thing to do would be have Saber with him and question him or something, but that wasn't an option considering how Rin acted that morning and what she said.

Seemed like he was rushed for time because he didn't want Rin to act rashly.

ijuka said:

The lancer attacking him in the prologue part to me seems to moreso imply that he doesn't give up / cannot experience fear of death properly, if he's futilely attempting to go get a weapon from his shed - He couldn't possibly believe that he could fight against Lancer at all. The plan itself doesn't even seem to have any chance of success to me, either. That goes well as foreshadowing for the conversation he has with Rin at school. That's how I see it, and I don't enjoy how certain people are saying things that go against what one would in my opinion generally conclude from the way he acts and assuming those things to be fact because hey, "I must be right". Right?

CookingPriest said:


Shirou is sensible of others social boundaries, especially with people he is attracted to, which connects to his distortion(once he starts to let that person in, that slowly goes away and he can act normally around them). But he is completely blind to HIMSELF within the social boundaries.

When it comes to other persons, he analyses and tries to fix stuff.


That also fits the ideaof high functioning sociopath to a t.

Sociopaths can feel embarrassment.Especially since not ALL emotions are gone as sociopathy is more about LIMITED range of emotions. They can feel like they did something bad. But in most of cases they genuinely do not understand why something that is"efficient" would be wrong or broke some sort of rule.

YggdrasilTM said:


More I read you, and more I think that you didn't get this novel at all.

CookingPriest said:


EXCEPT THAT HE KNOWS HE CANT RUN.
He outright states that running is futile.
SO he calmly devises the most efficient course of action at a try for survival.

tHat EXACTLY shows that in situations where other people would drown in emotions, Shirou's mind approaches it like a computer would.

CookingPriest said:


EXCEPT THAT HE KNOWS HE CANT RUN.
He outright states that running is futile.
SO he calmly devises the most efficient course of action at a try for survival.

tHat EXACTLY shows that in situations where other people would drown in emotions, Shirou's mind approaches it like a computer would.

GangstaPriest said:
Well, for a supposedly veteran cooking priest you're quite heavy handed with the salt, Fai.

It's fine to have complaints about ufo's portrayal of Shirou but what you're doing here is literally polluting the discussion thread with your constant ranting. I mean, you should seriously consider taking that shit somewhere else, cause the on-going discussion doesn't encourage newcomers to comment on the episode like, at all.

ijuka said:

So you think that knowing you can't run from a Servant as a normal human = super intelligent machine like 10 steps ahead conclusion? Some of us call it common sense. The fact that he still fights to me shows determination to not give up, not special intelligence or genious.

Reminds me of that "that's deep" "no, you're just shallow" meme.