Zankyou no Terror Episode 8 Discussion

Vox_Populi said:

You really have to wonder. Five had to have known Nine and Twelve weren't home since they'd immediately know that there was something wrong. They didn't know that Five knew where they lived, why didn't she just wait until they arrived and secured the exits?

Five clearly doesn't want to kill Nine or Twelve. But she could have at least captured them.

BRK25 said:

Go to the first episode. Twelve was doing things his way and was only with Nine cause they were friends. He's joking and following Nine's orders, that's all.

Episode three. Hey Nine what are YOU going to do if they don't find this bomb?

Episode Five: YOU seem to be putting a lot of trust into this detective.

Never did he say we, or what should we do, it was based on Nine's objectives.

Not we, YOU. He's never been to involved with the plan, they're friends but Nine has a solid objective, Twelve was there for the ride and he wants to live a normal life from the looks of it. If anything, Nine wants the bomb to go off and get people on the plan but Twelve's an assistant.

That's why I can understand, he's second guessing after witnessing Lisa nearly dying, he saw first hand the fear and danger going on.

pakoko said:


Maybe because Lisa actually has a personal record so it's easier to track her down? Nine and Twelve have been able to erase their traces impeccably thus far. No one knows anything about them, not even the plutonium factory where Nine worked for three (?) months. Five didn't know about Nine and Twelve's hideout until she tracked down Lisa.

C'mon guys it's not that hard. How would Five secure the exits? With police officers? You think Nine and Twelve wouldn't notice the police force securing the exits way before they even come?

Vox_Populi said:

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm not talking about how she found Lisa, I'm talking about blowing up the building as opposed to securing it. It isn't hard to infer that wherever Lisa lives, 9 and 12 do also. Since A) She knows who Lisa is, therefore B) She knows she ran away so C) by inductive reasoning, Five could reasonably infer she's living with Nine and Twelve in that apartment. It's also more logical to search the building of a suspected accomplice to terrorists, than to arbitrarily blow up it. There was probably considerable evidence in that building, including all of Nine's laptops.

Vox_Populi said:
Furthermore, if Five wanted to capture Lisa all along, why wait until Lisa coincidentally overhears a conversation highlighting her uselessness and then runs away, all of which could have not happened, instead of sending a team to capture her in the first place?

C'mon guys it's not that hard. How would Five secure the exits? With police officers? You think Nine and Twelve wouldn't notice the police force securing the exits way before they even come?

Vox_Populi said:
She could, and I know this is hard, wait until they're asleep since it's obvious that barring the roof, there's only one way in and out of the building. Although I agree she would be stupid enough to place men outside the building waiting for them.

If Five captures Nine and Twelve, in addition to having Lisa as collateral, I doubt she could find the plutonium much quicker than simply following them around until they lead her to it.

pakoko said:
1) That's dealing with characters and has nothing to do with how the story is disjointed. Blame the characters, not the story.

pakoko said:
2) They were pacifists from the start. Their plan was to destroy the buildings owned by the members of the Rising Peace Academy, but they ALWAYS made sure everyone was evacuated and safe.

pakoko said:
As to your point, I'm sort of confused. Are you talking about blowing up the building as opposed to securing it or searching the building as opposed to arbitrarily blowing it up? You say both in your first paragraph.

In any case, I'm not sure if I agree that searching 9 and 12's hideout is Five's most logical move. 1) 9 shows that he owns several laptops in which all of them are used for hacking and not once do we know if he's carrying anything of value within the laptops; 2) 5 has shown, especially when she hacked into 9's laptop before the subway bombing, that she's more than capable of looking into 9's laptops without necessarily knowing where they are. What evidence would she need from them anyway? She knows they're terrorists and she has all the evidence proving that they are so what more does she need?

Now as to why she arbitrarily blew the place up is because of two reasons I previously stated, and because she was 100% sure that the plutonium wasn't in that apartment. She says it in this episode that she knew that Nine wouldn't hide it somewhere so obvious.

Five didn't wait until Lisa overheard the conversation and left. She waited for Lisa to reveal herself on the streets. Chances are that Five didn't know about the new hideout until Lisa came out of it because I'm assuming Nine and Twelve are just crazy good at covering their tracks.

Lol let's just drop the whole "securing the exits" business because if it's hard for Five than it's that much easier for Nine and Twelve to escape.

I guess you're right in letting Lisa reveal the plutonium's location instead of taking her hostage. At this point I just think Five's not even thinking straight. And this goes back to my point that she seems desperate and anxious. Her job is to take out Nine and Twelve, and the more the clock runs, the more impatient she seems to get (for reasons that will be revealed later). It's like she's not even willing to wait that long for Lisa to reveal the location. Kidnapping Lisa almost seems like a cheap shot considering how intelligent Five is, and that just shows that she's out of time (we'll again see why she's so desperate in the next few episodes)

Takuan_Soho said:

Characters are the story. Now there are a few examples where the universe of the story can replace the characters (HP Lovecraft comes immediately to mind), but for the vast majority of stories you cannot separate characters from the story. Defects in one causes defects in the other.

Takuan_Soho said:
That is plain nonsense. Even if they evacuated everyone due to the fire alarm, you cannot suddenly bring down a 50-60 story building in the middle of a busy part of town without causing deaths. First of all the firemen, as 9/11 showed, would have charged into the building to make sure that everyone evacuated so they should have died, plus no one should have expected a normal fire to cause a building to collapse (with 9/11 it was the Jet Fuel that caused the collapse not the fires) so there would have been no reason to evacuate people from the area. They would have been killed by falling debris. The belief that one could destroy such a building and then do it in such a way as to prevent ANY major casualty is ridiculous.

Plus in episode 2 they showed debris from the Roppongi police explosion raining down on the pedestrians. There is no way 9 or 12 could have ensured that no would would have died. Given that they did not clear the walkway outside the building shows that the answer to the Oedipus question came too late and that the bombing of the police station should have killed someone.

This is just common sense, there is nothing in the first 3 episodes to suggest that 9 and 12 were worried about human fallout, that only came about when the writer changed with episode 4. So, no there has been no consistency.

Josh-i said:
>"You're studying science? You must know all about nuclear weapons."
>"In another age, people who blow up buildings would have been called activists."
>the "Athena Project"

this fucking show lol

Vox_Populi said:

After securing the building i.e. removing Lisa, she could have had it searched or waited until Nine and Twelve showed up, captured everyone and then searched it.


Evidence maybe hinting where the plutonium is. Fair enough on Nine's laptops, but that was just an example. And regardless, if she did capture them, at the very least she'd need evidence to show to the Japanese how and why she knows those three are the terrorists. They've been lenient so far, but I doubt they'd just take her conclusion at face value.


There was more to gain by not blowing up, even with your two reasons.


I understand that. I'm saying, if she wanted to capture Lisa, why not send a team instead of a postman with a bomb and capture her then? Especially since, that bomb clearly was meant for the building and not to actually kill anyone.


I disagree. Whenever the location of a fugitive is revealed, protocol isn't to make a move immediately. They could have easily staked the building for a while, and created a plan to deter all means of escape, which really should have been fairly simple. If they surrounded the building, what would Nine and Twelve have done?

Yeah, I'd agree she's not thinking straight. I'd also say that I don't think her objective is to kill Nine and Twelve either.

I'm not trying to nitpick with this moment either. But just blowing up their location, when she could have planned an assault, makes just no sense.

Takuan_Soho said:


Characters are the story. Now there are a few examples where the universe of the story can replace the characters (HP Lovecraft comes immediately to mind), but for the vast majority of stories you cannot separate characters from the story. Defects in one causes defects in the other.



That is plain nonsense. Even if they evacuated everyone due to the fire alarm, you cannot suddenly bring down a 50-60 story building in the middle of a busy part of town without causing deaths. First of all the firemen, as 9/11 showed, would have charged into the building to make sure that everyone evacuated so they should have died, plus no one should have expected a normal fire to cause a building to collapse (with 9/11 it was the Jet Fuel that caused the collapse not the fires) so there would have been no reason to evacuate people from the area. They would have been killed by falling debris. The belief that one could destroy such a building and then do it in such a way as to prevent ANY major casualty is ridiculous.

Plus in episode 2 they showed debris from the Roppongi police explosion raining down on the pedestrians. There is no way 9 or 12 could have ensured that no would would have died. Given that they did not clear the walkway outside the building shows that the answer to the Oedipus question came too late and that the bombing of the police station should have killed someone.

This is just common sense, there is nothing in the first 3 episodes to suggest that 9 and 12 were worried about human fallout, that only came about when the writer changed with episode 4. So, no there has been no consistency.

orchidork said:


i didn't realize this but it makes sense since 9 is the mastermind to every plan which 12 just goes along with. he's 9's accomplice. it still doesn't change the fact that 12's attachment to lisa is weird since they didn't spend that much time together and 9 and 12 have been with each other for years. if we knew what's going through 12's head things would be clearer.

i can't tell if 9's going to go after 12 because of his attachment to 9 or if he's going to avoid going after 9 because of his attachment to 9. if i had to predict it would be the former because of character development and all.

i really can't stand lisa or 5. they told lisa to stay inside for a reason but she pulls illogical stunts anyway. she should've realized that by running away she was putting 9 and 12 in danger which she obviously didn't want. if anything happens to 9 and 12 now it will be completely her fault

BRK25 said:

I think you guys are forgetting a specific, crucial part.

Clarence, Five's assistant, specifically stated that the FBI"S GOAL IS TO RETRIEVE THE PLUTONIUM.

But Five's spearheading the entire project and operation. The Fbi wants the plutonium recovered but since Five's in power, she gets to do as she wants with the plutonium a side thought.

Five wishes to play a game and crush her opponents. Twelve's not involved, only Nine. Which would make sense in episode five regarding the flashback and only those two.

The key part I'd like to make is that Five is in control and she is the authoritative control. From stopping the FBI from shooting to leader of the control room in episode seven. What she does is law but again, her powers are getting tested from the Japanese Department, she can't play around left and right. Time's running out.

Five wished to create tension with the group. The way Five made a deduction that she's nothing but a nuisance or a third wheel who lags the team behind shows she knows what she must be feeling. The running away was planned or might happen. And if you don't believe me, read the next line.

On the location, Five sent a mass text in episode five to everyone in Tokyo that she found Sphinx and since Lisa has her phone, I don't think it's hard with the knowledge of records to find Lisa's cell phone and track its location and send a bomb her way. She looked up her history and files. It wouldn't be out of her power anyways.

pakoko said:


Thank you. Five is the playmaker here, not anyone else. Vox_Populi the strategies you would use to go about arresting terrorists are interesting to read but I'm not here to debate how Five should have gone about arresting Nine and Twelve. As much as I'd want to, we both can't change what Five has done and only lament the decisions she made. I'd rather spend my time theorizing about what's to come and not complain over what's already happened and can't be changed. Hope you understand. It was a fun discussion while it lasted, though.

Marzan said:
People, SLOW is good. This was much better than last episode's over the top Hollywood action. We get back to the characters and the plot. Yamazaki is slowly guiding us to what happened back in the day.

The Japanese police really let's Five and her American backers get away with too much. Bombs and now kidnappings. This is going to get nasty.

Darstorm-Sandude said:
What is the name of the song that plays right after the OP in this episode?

Labuu said:
I believe this episode guranteed that I should not even waste my time watching this anime anymore. IN THE BEGINNING IT HAD SO MUCH POTENTIAL. With an interesting plot, unique characters, and beautiful animation.

I just feel so betrayed.

Literally all the characters except for Ace Detective and maybe even Five are written and handled so horribly. Lisa, the ambassador of crappy plot-devices with no common sense, takes the cake but how they are handling Twelve is a close second. Why would you leave the only friend you trusted for years and shared the same pain through for a total stranger you barely have a conversation with and only met a few weeks ago???? The one who you were so ready to blow to bits with a kururin. Twelve you are a dick. Especially like where did this caring and kindness for her come from???

You can say it is because love. You can say it is because Twelve is now able to care for someone from the world outside of his. You can say anything because IT IS NEVER EXPLAINED. Their whole relationship is vague because we don't know why Twelve cares about Lisa. She has done nothing to earn that respect. It is only because she has a yellow aura??? Which I am guessing that means she is special...WHICH IS NEVER SHOWN WHY EVER other than for the fact that she puts pocky in curry.
She is something special alright.

Twelve's character literally flipped a 180 from a creepy, cutie-patootie psychopath to this caring protector out of the blue. This is not character development, this is just some kid turning on and off a life switch. If the story needed tension between Nine and Twelve it should have been because of different morals. Such as one only wanting to blow up buildings like they are doing now and one lusting for a bodycount.

BRK25 said:
Terror-in-tokyo.com

IF one heads to the special page and decipher it, it seems we are in for a treat for the next three episode and has said the background information was intentional and there will be a conclusion to all the characters and the use of the plutonium .

Rueby said:
When Nine said "Please, don't go"



I just can't, Twelve, how dare you?

pakoko said:


Oh man that's a bummer, the whole website's in Japanese =/ would have liked to take a crack at it.

DerpHole said:


That just makes it more of a challenge. Don't back down like a pussy.

pakoko said:


Lol you're right. I will use all the Japanese words in my inventory to crack the code: Oppai keikkaku tempura udon wasabi desu desu.

Yohimo_asakura said:
Best episode till now, in my opinion.