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What did you think of this episode?
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Aug 27, 2014 9:59 AM
#1
THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Kuro is pretty cute when she blushes ;o I'm glad to see action picking up a bit again especially with Luvia. It looks like we have specialist Bazette to deal with. OST seemed a bit zany though. But yeah, I find this episode (second half) to be much better than the previous. They extended bits of the fight too. It didn't exactly end where I had predicted it might of been though. Still, Illya does know something strange is going on over at Luvia's place. |
Stark700Aug 27, 2014 11:42 AM
Aug 27, 2014 11:55 AM
#2
Finally, we got to see some Bazett action animated. The fight was nice. Auguste was humiliating himself with those firearms... He's the one that got served in the end. I love seeing Bazett's awesome hand to hand combat abilities, she's such a BA. Can't forget her obligatory glove snap either. Those allowances though... Too bad Luvia's mansion got trashed. |
Aug 27, 2014 12:00 PM
#3
Great episode so far and no signs of anime-original ending in sight. The fight was fucking great. Seeing Bazett animated is such a sight to behold. I hope ufotable does F/HA adaptation after FSN And they ended the episode EXACTLY where i thought they would. Perfect ending for the episode. Overall beyond epic episode. Very fitting complement to newest kaleid liner chapter in terms of badassery. |
Aug 27, 2014 12:02 PM
#4
This show regularly change from yuri-lolis to fast-paced action. I think this episode is actually anime original, since I don't recall them showing Bazett curbstomping Luvia and co. Auguste going all Magus Killer doesn't seem to work against Bazett. Don't know if it's translation error or script error but Bazett was described as an Enforcer from the Church, while in truth she is from the Association. Bugged me a little. I do wonder if we will see Irisviel and Shirou interact with each other at all. They are mother and son after all. |
Missing the times of Rewrite, good times. |
Aug 27, 2014 12:02 PM
#5
I like how Irisviel came out of nowhere and asked Tohsaka and Luvia to show her around! The moment Luvia took the lead to help Iris, I knew what her ulterior motive was. "Mother of Shero." XD Observing from the bushes was pretty funny! Poor Taiga, never found out who was hiding in the school ground. XD Kuro's blushing while Iris caressing her was cute. :3 When Iris said, "I know what you two truly want." I expected it to be Shirou. Guessed wrong but that would've been funny though! Auguste is quite a capable butler; showed Bazett some good hospitality! Too bad, she's outclassed all his movements pretty easily. I guess Luvia and Tohsaka got owned at the end too. Sh!t, she's badass! Good episode. Another epic battle incoming next week! |
Aug 27, 2014 12:09 PM
#6
HunterTennouji said: This show regularly change from yuri-lolis to fast-paced action. I think this episode is actually anime original, since I don't recall them showing Bazett curbstomping Luvia and co. Auguste going all Magus Killer doesn't seem to work against Bazett. Don't know if it's translation error or script error but Bazett was described as an Enforcer from the Church, while in truth she is from the Association. Bugged me a little. I do wonder if we will see Irisviel and Shirou interact with each other at all. They are mother and son after all. No its not anime original. We see most of that in panels, they just expanded it quite a bit int erms of fighting, the way they tend to do it Bazett is related to both church and MA, but yes she is MA's enforcer. Not sure how that line works, but most likely mistranslation. EDIT: The dialogue DOES mention the (Magi )Association (Kyōkai), so yeah, sub mistake |
AhenshihaelAug 27, 2014 12:33 PM
Aug 27, 2014 12:14 PM
#7
It was pretty funny to see Irisviel came out of nowhere and asked Rin and Luvia to show her around. Auguste is sure one badass butler. The fight against Bazett was epic. |
Aug 27, 2014 12:34 PM
#8
Bazett showing just how strong she is, Shirou was so lucky he didn't have to face her in the fifth war. |
Aug 27, 2014 12:39 PM
#9
Finally, Bazett appears! Fight was intense, animations amazing! |
Aug 27, 2014 12:43 PM
#10
F***N CLIFFHANGER!!! >.<!! Bazett is finally here and wrecking some havoc :D Dat Auguste vs Bazett was awesome! What a butler. But Dat punch in the gut gotta hurt >~< On another note...was quite cute seeing dere Kuro blushing after Irisviel patted her head <3 "Arata na Yoake" playing during that scene reminded me of Rin and Archer's goodbye T_T Irisviel really is such a mysterious woman though ^^; Really can't wait for nxt ep. Time for the best fight of this season :3 Hope they don't use too much CG and focus on hand drawn like ep6 of S1. |
Aug 27, 2014 12:45 PM
#11
Aug 27, 2014 12:46 PM
#12
ElPysCongroo said: EVERYONE was lucky in the 5th.Bazett showing just how strong she is, Shirou was so lucky he didn't have to face her in the fifth war. |
Aug 27, 2014 12:48 PM
#13
Bazett made her appearance and as usual, or at least what you expect from her she made a mess. Luvia and Rin had a hard time judging from the state of the house. The question remains how are they doing and what is Bazett after. |
Aug 27, 2014 12:48 PM
#14
BeatOfRebirth96 said: Finally: Bazett <3 It's still sad since it's pretty sure F/HA will never get an anime adaption... The fight was pretty epic, I really liked how Luvia, Auguste and Rin got totally owned xD Next week will be even better. I would say FHA adaptation after FSN is quite likely. They ARE doing multiple routes so FHA would make sense and ufotable is making the animation op for the FHA psvita re-release too. So mst likely: FSN then FSN HF movies then FHA then (I hope) Fate/EXtra shaft anime, then Mahoyo, then Tsukihime VN remake, then Tsukihime anime. |
Aug 27, 2014 12:53 PM
#15
Quite optimistic there Fai XD Well we can only hope >.< |
Aug 27, 2014 12:57 PM
#16
Aug 27, 2014 1:37 PM
#17
Badass episode and entrance for Bazett. Auguste was awesome. |
"Listen Simon... Don't forget. Believe in yourself. Not in the you who believes in me. Not the me who believes in you. Believe in the you who believes in yourself." ~ Kamina (TTGL) “You should enjoy the little detours. To the fullest. Because that’s where you’ll find the things more important than what you want.” ~ Ging (HxH) |
Aug 27, 2014 1:37 PM
#18
Here my thoughts about the episode : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/502801Sanstitre22.jpg Seriously, it was great :o |
Aug 27, 2014 1:47 PM
#20
Kaengel said: Here my thoughts about the episode : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/502801Sanstitre22.jpg Seriously, it was great :o You made my day |
Aug 27, 2014 1:50 PM
#21
Kaengel said: did you do that yourself? :3Here my thoughts about the episode : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/502801Sanstitre22.jpg Seriously, it was great :o |
Aug 27, 2014 1:58 PM
#22
I alwas wondered since Bazzert so stronge as mainly a magi killer how did Keire kill her in the stay night since she was lancer orginal master. |
Aug 27, 2014 2:04 PM
#23
Kirei pretended to be her friend and ally and backstabbed her, by immediately cutting off her arm, when she didn't pay attention. It happened so fast, she couldn't even call out Lancer. Kinda like Kirei killed Tokiomi, if you want. Only Lancer probably would have helped unlike Gil. As for this episode, More than half of the episode was anime original content or expanded scenes from the manga, but I don't mind that, since we will probably get a second cours for the rest of 2wei anyway and they will likely end this season with this fight. Also, the action was entertaining and fun. |
Aug 27, 2014 2:07 PM
#24
Aug 27, 2014 2:09 PM
#25
C-Core said: Kirei pretended to be her friend and ally and backstabbed her, by immediately cutting off her arm, when she didn't pay attention. It happened so fast, she couldn't even call out Lancer. Kinda like Kirei killed Tokiomi, if you want. Only Lancer probably would have helped unlike Gil. As for this episode, More than half of the episode was anime original content or expanded scenes from the manga, but I don't mind that, since we will probably get a second cours for the rest of 2wei anyway and they will likely end this season with this fight. Also, the action was entertaining and fun. That content was kind of needed though since it serves the same purpose as Iris dialogue with Sella in S1 that they cut , down to "I will fight for their futures" part. |
Aug 27, 2014 2:16 PM
#26
Tat was great, the fight extension made it better then in the manga, though bazzett didnt felt as cold and near machine-like like in the manga, i mean she was like a terminator in the manga, which felt more badass. Also, im gonna ask this now since its gonna come up next ep can someone explain to me the whole Fragaranch paradox thing? Because i feel like it's either a mistranslation in the manga or im missing something. Espcially with the line "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach." Which still confuses me. |
Aug 27, 2014 2:20 PM
#27
HaXXspetten said: Kaengel said: did you do that yourself? :3Here my thoughts about the episode : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/502801Sanstitre22.jpg Seriously, it was great :o Yes, just put some screenshot together and added the text. Making it was fun :p |
Aug 27, 2014 2:24 PM
#28
AllTJAck said: Tat was great, the fight extension made it better then in the manga, though bazzett didnt felt as cold and near machine-like like in the manga, i mean she was like a terminator in the manga, which felt more badass. Also, im gonna ask this now since its gonna come up next ep can someone explain to me the whole Fragaranch paradox thing? Because i feel like it's either a mistranslation in the manga or im missing something. Espcially with the line "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach." Which still confuses me. ITs causality reversal. Fragrach reverses the cause and effect - Fragrach hits before the attack that it is countering hits Bazett, thus it hits first. |
Aug 27, 2014 2:25 PM
#29
AllTJAck said: Tat was great, the fight extension made it better then in the manga, though bazzett didnt felt as cold and near machine-like like in the manga, i mean she was like a terminator in the manga, which felt more badass. Also, im gonna ask this now since its gonna come up next ep can someone explain to me the whole Fragaranch paradox thing? Because i feel like it's either a mistranslation in the manga or im missing something. Espcially with the line "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach." Which still confuses me. It's not a mistranslation. It's actually even well explained in a panel how it works. Fragarach is an ultimate Noble Phantasm that reverses time and hits the enemy's heart after they released their strongest attack. If Fragarach is used after Saber's Excalibur was released for instance, Fragarach goes back in time before Excalibur was used and kills Saber. It's a counter attack that will save Bazett from the double KO by only killing her enemy. Now if she tries to use Fragarach's counter attack against her enemy, while she is cursed with the death-and-pain-slavery curse, she would share the pain with the user that she killed with Fragarach and dies too, which destroys the causality chain. Because then the death that is caused by Fragarach is the attack that she has to counter with Fragarach. Of course this wouldn't really happen because Rin's curse wouldn't actually kill Bazett, if she killed Illya. It was a bluff. She doesn't have such a convenient curse. Edit: Fai said: ITs causality reversal. Fragrach reverses the cause and effect - Fragrach hits before the attack that it is countering hits Bazett, thus it hits first. That's not really a cause and effect change. Only Gae Bolg does that. But yes, causality warp/rewriting time is what Fragarach does. |
CapsuleCoreAug 27, 2014 2:32 PM
Aug 27, 2014 2:33 PM
#30
Kaengel said: Here my thoughts about the episode : http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/502801Sanstitre22.jpg Seriously, it was great :o So lol XD esp the "Is he an idiot? I dodged the bullets" XD |
Aug 27, 2014 2:33 PM
#31
C-Core said: AllTJAck said: Tat was great, the fight extension made it better then in the manga, though bazzett didnt felt as cold and near machine-like like in the manga, i mean she was like a terminator in the manga, which felt more badass. Also, im gonna ask this now since its gonna come up next ep can someone explain to me the whole Fragaranch paradox thing? Because i feel like it's either a mistranslation in the manga or im missing something. Espcially with the line "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach." Which still confuses me. It's not a mistranslation. It's actually even well explained in a panel how it works. Fragarach is an ultimate Noble Phantasm that reverses time and hits the enemy's heart after they released their strongest attack. If Fragarach is used after Saber's Excalibur was released for instance, Fragarach goes back in time before Excalibur was used and kills Saber. It's a counter attack that will save Bazett from the double KO by only killing her enemy. Now if she tries to use Fragarach's counter attack against her enemy, while she is cursed with the death-and-pain-slavery curse, she would share the pain with the user that she killed with Fragarach and dies too, which destroys the causality chain. Because then the death that is caused by Fragarach is the attack that she has to counter with Fragarach. Of course this wouldn't really happen because Rin's curse wouldn't actually kill Bazett, if she killed Illya. It was a bluff. She doesn't have such a convenient curse. Edit: Fai said: ITs causality reversal. Fragrach reverses the cause and effect - Fragrach hits before the attack that it is countering hits Bazett, thus it hits first. That's not really a cause and effect change. Only Gae Bolg does that. But yes, causality warp is what Fragarach does. gae bolg outright BREAKS the cause and effect - its effect can go even if cause is prevented. fragrach speciffically functions in a way that the effect hits before the cause that triggered it does in Case of gaebolg - once its called out, no matter what, it hits, even if its not used. in case of fragrach - once its called to counter the attack, the attack does not happen, because the counter has hit the enemy before the attack. Universe gets a headache when the two meet. |
Aug 27, 2014 2:35 PM
#32
Fai said: AllTJAck said: Tat was great, the fight extension made it better then in the manga, though bazzett didnt felt as cold and near machine-like like in the manga, i mean she was like a terminator in the manga, which felt more badass. Also, im gonna ask this now since its gonna come up next ep can someone explain to me the whole Fragaranch paradox thing? Because i feel like it's either a mistranslation in the manga or im missing something. Espcially with the line "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach." Which still confuses me. ITs causality reversal. Fragrach reverses the cause and effect - Fragrach hits before the attack that it is countering hits Bazett, thus it hits first. That i understand, what im confused about is the fact that in the manga when bazzett got cursed by rin with the pain link thing, and they explained wat would happen if bazzett fires Fragarach now which basiclly meant she would kill herself in the process and create a causality confict which was quote: "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach." This confused me as this sounds perfectly reasonable and if it were to createa conflict shouldnt it be"Bazett fires Fragarach -after- she is killed by Fragarach." So i wondered if this maybe a translation fault in the manga. |
Aug 27, 2014 2:38 PM
#33
AllTJAck said: Fai said: AllTJAck said: Tat was great, the fight extension made it better then in the manga, though bazzett didnt felt as cold and near machine-like like in the manga, i mean she was like a terminator in the manga, which felt more badass. Also, im gonna ask this now since its gonna come up next ep can someone explain to me the whole Fragaranch paradox thing? Because i feel like it's either a mistranslation in the manga or im missing something. Espcially with the line "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach." Which still confuses me. ITs causality reversal. Fragrach reverses the cause and effect - Fragrach hits before the attack that it is countering hits Bazett, thus it hits first. That i understand, what im confused about is the fact that in the manga when bazzett got cursed by rin with the pain link thing, and they explained wat would happen if bazzett fires Fragarach now which basiclly meant she would kill herself in the process and create a causality confict which was quote: "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach." This confused me as this sounds perfectly reasonable and if it were to createa conflict shouldnt it be"Bazett fires Fragarach -after- she is killed by Fragarach." So i wondered if this maybe a translation fault in the manga. THat was a bluff - the essence of it was that even though bazett would counter the attack with fragrach, she would feel the effect of fragrach and would die too. Fragrach always fires before it is caused. Its a bunch of bollocks though as it was a bluff. |
Aug 27, 2014 2:40 PM
#34
Fai said: C-Core said: AllTJAck said: Tat was great, the fight extension made it better then in the manga, though bazzett didnt felt as cold and near machine-like like in the manga, i mean she was like a terminator in the manga, which felt more badass. Also, im gonna ask this now since its gonna come up next ep can someone explain to me the whole Fragaranch paradox thing? Because i feel like it's either a mistranslation in the manga or im missing something. Espcially with the line "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach." Which still confuses me. It's not a mistranslation. It's actually even well explained in a panel how it works. Fragarach is an ultimate Noble Phantasm that reverses time and hits the enemy's heart after they released their strongest attack. If Fragarach is used after Saber's Excalibur was released for instance, Fragarach goes back in time before Excalibur was used and kills Saber. It's a counter attack that will save Bazett from the double KO by only killing her enemy. Now if she tries to use Fragarach's counter attack against her enemy, while she is cursed with the death-and-pain-slavery curse, she would share the pain with the user that she killed with Fragarach and dies too, which destroys the causality chain. Because then the death that is caused by Fragarach is the attack that she has to counter with Fragarach. Of course this wouldn't really happen because Rin's curse wouldn't actually kill Bazett, if she killed Illya. It was a bluff. She doesn't have such a convenient curse. Edit: Fai said: ITs causality reversal. Fragrach reverses the cause and effect - Fragrach hits before the attack that it is countering hits Bazett, thus it hits first. That's not really a cause and effect change. Only Gae Bolg does that. But yes, causality warp is what Fragarach does. gae bolg outright BREAKS the cause and effect - its effect can go even if cause is prevented. fragrach speciffically functions in a way that the effect hits before the cause that triggered it does in Case of gaebolg - once its called out, no matter what, it hits, even if its not used. in case of fragrach - once its called to counter the attack, the attack does not happen, because the counter has hit the enemy before the attack. Universe gets a headache when the two meet. The cause in Gae Bolg's case is "I thrust the lance" the effect, the result, is that the opponent's heart is pierced. What Fragarach does is changing time, so it strikes first. That is also a causality and cause and effect change if we are strict (since cause: I use Fragarach, effect: enemy gets killed, but actually before I used Fragarach) but not the way of Gae Bolg. It's a different kind of cause and effect change effectively. |
CapsuleCoreAug 27, 2014 2:49 PM
Aug 27, 2014 2:51 PM
#35
C-Core said: Fai said: C-Core said: AllTJAck said: Tat was great, the fight extension made it better then in the manga, though bazzett didnt felt as cold and near machine-like like in the manga, i mean she was like a terminator in the manga, which felt more badass. Also, im gonna ask this now since its gonna come up next ep can someone explain to me the whole Fragaranch paradox thing? Because i feel like it's either a mistranslation in the manga or im missing something. Espcially with the line "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach." Which still confuses me. It's not a mistranslation. It's actually even well explained in a panel how it works. Fragarach is an ultimate Noble Phantasm that reverses time and hits the enemy's heart after they released their strongest attack. If Fragarach is used after Saber's Excalibur was released for instance, Fragarach goes back in time before Excalibur was used and kills Saber. It's a counter attack that will save Bazett from the double KO by only killing her enemy. Now if she tries to use Fragarach's counter attack against her enemy, while she is cursed with the death-and-pain-slavery curse, she would share the pain with the user that she killed with Fragarach and dies too, which destroys the causality chain. Because then the death that is caused by Fragarach is the attack that she has to counter with Fragarach. Of course this wouldn't really happen because Rin's curse wouldn't actually kill Bazett, if she killed Illya. It was a bluff. She doesn't have such a convenient curse. Edit: Fai said: ITs causality reversal. Fragrach reverses the cause and effect - Fragrach hits before the attack that it is countering hits Bazett, thus it hits first. That's not really a cause and effect change. Only Gae Bolg does that. But yes, causality warp is what Fragarach does. gae bolg outright BREAKS the cause and effect - its effect can go even if cause is prevented. fragrach speciffically functions in a way that the effect hits before the cause that triggered it does in Case of gaebolg - once its called out, no matter what, it hits, even if its not used. in case of fragrach - once its called to counter the attack, the attack does not happen, because the counter has hit the enemy before the attack. Universe gets a headache when the two meet. No, cause and effect change is exactly what Fragarach compared to Gae Bolg can not do. You get confused by Nasu's definition of cause and effect. The cause in Gae Bolg's case is "I thrust the lance" the effect, the result, is that the opponent's heart is pierced. What Fragarach does is changing time, so it strikes first. That is really all. That is also a causality and cause and effect change if we are strict (since cause: I use Fragarach, effect: enemy gets killed, but actually before I used Fragarach) but not the way it is meant. ] I amnot using nasu terminology, i am using the actual sensible definition of cause and effect., which is what is defined in second paragraph. - Gaebolg is called out <middle part does not matter> - It hits. - Fragrach hits - Attack happens - Fragrach is triggered to get a hit in before it happens. I have no interest into delving deeper into mechanics of gaebolg and how nasu describes it since gaebolg fuckery gives me headache if i go beyond "it always hits no matter what" |
Aug 27, 2014 2:55 PM
#36
Yeah I edited it a bit, because there are two different kinds of reversals, which caused the double KO of Gae Bolg vs Fragarach in FHA. He used "cause and effect reversal" when he defined both weapons, but actually meant different reversals. Japanese btw is also brilliant because it's so context heavy that you don't know to what cause and effect Nasu actually refers. Fragarach nullifies the effect of the enemy's cause because Fragarach hits before the enemy's cause, even though Bazett's cause came after, which results in a dead enemy but a living Bazett. But then again Gae Bolg kills you when its name is revealed, because it changes the attack's cause and effect, which means Fragarach can't nullify the effect, because Gae Bolg's cause and effect are reversed which means... you know what? You're right. It causes headaches. Fuck Nasu. |
CapsuleCoreAug 27, 2014 3:09 PM
Aug 27, 2014 3:10 PM
#37
C-Core said: Yeah I edited it a bit, because there are two different kinds of reversals, which caused the double KO of Gae Bolg vs Fragarach in FHA. He used "cause and effect reversal" when he defined both weapons, but actually meant different reversals. Fuck Nasu. I agree, i think it might be more sensible to say that Bolg changes order of cause and effect in an event (eg thrusting the spear through the heart) while Fraga changes the order of the events occuring and so changes the cause and effecf of that sequence |
Aug 27, 2014 3:15 PM
#38
Have a nifty quote of a better translated scene from FHA. Ath said: Here, Nasu differentiates between "switch order of events" and "reverse of causality". The usage of Fragarach is not seen as a causality reverse apparently. No wonder people keep getting confused.If Fragarach is a curse that switches the order of events, this spear itself is a curse that reverses causality. The moment the true name had been released, Gae Bolg held the result of "already hitting a heart". Thus, returning to the point before activation and killing the user is meaningless. The spear that holds the result of striking the heart will race to fulfill its duty even if the user is dead. |
Aug 27, 2014 3:28 PM
#39
Aug 27, 2014 3:39 PM
#40
Oh boy, what a ride :D So first things first we have a more lighthearted and comedic atmosphere with Iri-mama being awesome :3 (as usual). Carrying Iri-mama and running the same way it happened with Kuro was funny xD Then we get to the serious bits. A FUCKING AWESOME BAZETT APPEARS!! Character design is okay I guess, could be better though. Damn what a fight, Bazett too OP nerf pls. Seriously though Bazett is badass and with her appearance now I know the series will be using the epic express line from now on. I mean, just look at this Next episode, Bellerophon! Overall it was fucking awesome, 5/5 ssjokg said: ElPysCongroo said: EVERYONE was lucky in the 5th.Bazett showing just how strong she is, Shirou was so lucky he didn't have to face her in the fifth war. Except Lancer, Shinji, Rider, Caster, Assassin and Shirou in most bad ends |
BotatoAug 27, 2014 3:46 PM
Aug 27, 2014 4:01 PM
#41
C-Core said: [/quote]AllTJAck said: Tat was great, the fight extension made it better then in the manga, though bazzett didnt felt as cold and near machine-like like in the manga, i mean she was like a terminator in the manga, which felt more badass. Also, im gonna ask this now since its gonna come up next ep can someone explain to me the whole Fragaranch paradox thing? Because i feel like it's either a mistranslation in the manga or im missing something. Espcially with the line "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach." Which still confuses me. [spoiler]It's not a mistranslation. It's actually even well explained in a panel how it works. Fragarach is an ultimate Noble Phantasm that reverses time and hits the enemy's heart after they released their strongest attack. If Fragarach is used after Saber's Excalibur was released for instance, Fragarach goes back in time before Excalibur was used and kills Saber. It's a counter attack that will save Bazett from the double KO by only killing her enemy. Now if she tries to use Fragarach's counter attack against her enemy, while she is cursed with the death-and-pain-slavery curse, she would share the pain with the user that she killed with Fragarach and dies too, which destroys the causality chain. Because then the death that is caused by Fragarach is the attack that she has to counter with Fragarach. I understood the mechanics of it its just the "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach" line since shouldnt it be -after- instead of -before- since if she fires it her death will occur before she fired it. Tats why i feel like its a mistranslation. Tat felt confusing just to type. Srry if this just became a full TM discussion cause of my curiosity |
Aug 27, 2014 4:20 PM
#42
AllTJAck said: C-Core said: AllTJAck said: Tat was great, the fight extension made it better then in the manga, though bazzett didnt felt as cold and near machine-like like in the manga, i mean she was like a terminator in the manga, which felt more badass. Also, im gonna ask this now since its gonna come up next ep can someone explain to me the whole Fragaranch paradox thing? Because i feel like it's either a mistranslation in the manga or im missing something. Espcially with the line "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach." Which still confuses me. [spoiler]It's not a mistranslation. It's actually even well explained in a panel how it works. Fragarach is an ultimate Noble Phantasm that reverses time and hits the enemy's heart after they released their strongest attack. If Fragarach is used after Saber's Excalibur was released for instance, Fragarach goes back in time before Excalibur was used and kills Saber. It's a counter attack that will save Bazett from the double KO by only killing her enemy. Now if she tries to use Fragarach's counter attack against her enemy, while she is cursed with the death-and-pain-slavery curse, she would share the pain with the user that she killed with Fragarach and dies too, which destroys the causality chain. Because then the death that is caused by Fragarach is the attack that she has to counter with Fragarach. I understood the mechanics of it its just the "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach" line since shouldnt it be -after- instead of -before- since if she fires it her death will occur before she fired it. Tats why i feel like its a mistranslation. Tat felt confusing just to type. Srry if this just became a full TM discussion cause of my curiosity[/quote] No, it's not a mistranslation. What ultimately kills Bazett is Fragarach, which jumps back in time to kill her target. That means Bazett died because of Fragarach's caused damage before she actually fired Fragarach, because that is how Fragarach usually works. The causality is already messed up when Fragarach is used. When the user is killed before the user actually activated Fragarach to stop the enemy's attack, the world explodes (not literally) because of the logical contradiction, since then Fragarach shouldn't have been fired either because Bazett died before she used it. |
Aug 27, 2014 4:24 PM
#43
@Causality talk: |
Aug 27, 2014 4:25 PM
#44
Aug 27, 2014 4:35 PM
#45
Yes thats why its weird to me because "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach" implies Bazett fires Fraga -> she is then killed by the damage from Fraga No causality conflict in this sentence. But she is killed by it before she fires it and that is the conflict. So shouldnt the sentence be like "Before Bazett fires Fragarach she is killed by Fragarach". This sentence implies Bazett fires Fraga -> but she is killed by Fraga before it was fired -> but she fired it ->conflict |
Aug 27, 2014 4:37 PM
#46
Illya merely sensed Rin, Luvia and her mother at school, hiding in the tree and bushes, but Kuro was completely aware of their presense. But inside their house, Illya felt strange things from Luvia's mansion but Kuro felt nothing and said it was Illya's imagination. What does these mean? |
Aug 27, 2014 4:45 PM
#47
AllTJAck said: Yes thats why its weird to me because "Bazett fires Fragarach before she is killed by Fragarach" implies Bazett fires Fraga -> she is then killed by the damage from Fraga No causality conflict in this sentence. But she is killed by it before she fires it and that is the conflict. So shouldnt the sentence be like "Before Bazett fires Fragarach she is killed by Fragarach". This sentence implies Bazett fires Fraga -> but she is killed by Fraga before it was fired -> but she fired it ->conflict The wording is weird and more confusing, but still more or less correct. Because Bazett's fired Fragarach actually does happen before she is killed by it, even though Fragarach prevents Bazett's death, since it jumps back. You can word it in a less confusing way, but one way or another it's still a causality conflict which disables Fragarach in theory. |
Aug 27, 2014 4:49 PM
#48
I'm glad interesting plot is finally happening in this season. I loved season one to death but, all of that bull about Kuro was so stupid. I could care less about her. Plus the fight scenes are as well animated as ever. Keep it up. |
Aug 27, 2014 4:52 PM
#49
rladls717 said: Illya merely sensed Rin, Luvia and her mother at school, hiding in the tree and bushes, but Kuro was completely aware of their presense. But inside their house, Illya felt strange things from Luvia's mansion but Kuro felt nothing and said it was Illya's imagination. What does these mean? That Illya is better at detecting magic, but Kuro's awareness overall is better. The scenes with Kuro at the beginning are anime filler btw. |
Aug 27, 2014 5:02 PM
#50
Cratex said: I'm assuming if Illya picked up on the fight, Iri certainly could as well...? We have no way to know where Iri was at the moment Bazzett entered Luvia's mansion, just like she popped at Illya's school she could have been outside Fuyuki (doing mage business or maybe just going to pick up her car from the mechanic). Otherwise she would have noticed when the girls left the house at night. BTW, I thought Chloe slept in Illyas room, but in this chapter the make it clear she has her own room, does anyone has any official floor plans of the house? It is way too convenient to have one empty room and I doubt they gave here Iri/Kiri's bedroom. Is she sleeping outside the house ala Glasslip? The house does not looks big enought to have five bedrooms. |
mangamuscleAug 27, 2014 5:07 PM
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