| It is some time ago that I read this Manga and I don't feel comfortable trying to give too many arguements as to why I think that Berserk is in my opinion only a 6-10 depending on which arc you look at, but I just can't get this question out of my mind, so let me try it anyway. The first arc was pretty bad if you ask me, but that is not even what concerns me most. I pretty much loved the coming of age arc's around Guts. It's reasonable these arcs are rated 10. Then there is the arc about Griffith turning god hand ... what the hell, of course it had to go there, of course we needed something to get Guts raging, but still, what the hell? ... When Griffith turned god hand and raped casca it probably was the biggest dissappointment I could imagine at the time ... not because I have a problem with Casca being raped, or simply Griffith being the one that does it, but because the Manga so far made the biggest promises of consitency and strongly idealistic characters and it just doesn't fit into any of the ideals that Griffith stands for to rape Casca. To me it felt, like the only reason the authors put so much emotional "deepnes" into that act was to make the "rage" they needed Guts to feel believable. <---- I will ignore any commets from people that do not understand what I mean by this, but I will explain it: Bullshit. That is my reason. How could one of the greatest quality Mangas out there (to that point) bullshit? For those that don't want to read Harry Franfurts definition of that term (link), in short bullshit is something that is said, without actually caring about whether it's true or not, but for the effect of saying it. Got my point? I'm not saying that I'm neccessairily right, but assuming that I am you understand why I would be disappointed, right? In that case feel free to make a comment. Why do I think it's bullshit? Well, that's probably the hardest point to answer, but yeah the most important one. I'm not very good with words and logic, but I'll try to explain as good as I can. The ideals, that Griffith showed so far that I have in my mind right now are: "A real friend to me needs to go over his friends and everybody else's dead bodies if that is what it takes to accomplish their own dream." I think he said something along these lines, right? If he said that, and he actually is idealistic (which he can be, even evil or good, god hand or not), then Guts leaving him behind, to hunt his own dream was exactly what Guts had to do, so that Griffith could still see him as a friend, if he would have given up his dream, to become just another follower of Griffith, then their friendship would have ended, right? Meaning, to be exact, my dissappointment for this Manga was not orignially triggered by the rape, but way earlier, when Griffith broke down and fucked that pricess girl. To me it seems that everything starting from this point was just to move everything into the place the author decided it should be, but not because that is really how it is, just because: Editor: "So when is Guts finally going to turn Berserk? The way it's going right now people start to think this might turn out a lovely merry cuddle story with a little bit to much bro love. Turn it Berserk now or you are done." Author: "Nooo, I can't do that, I would betray all my fans! Ah, whatever, gotta make ends meet." Of course I could have just been reading this Manga wrong, and actually it really is not a breaking of it's own rules, but completly in agreement with what the characters have been defined to be. Let's assume that. What would it mean? That's a very important question, because assuming that I did not make another big mistake in my arguements so far, everybody else must have read it the right way and still liked it. So what I should have been reading is that Griffith was full of shit to begin with? He is just talking, being a desperate late teenager that got a little bit too much skill? He is gonna throw all his airbubble ideals againts the wall whenever he feel's like it and takes the easiest way to get to his dream only believing in hate and lust (reffering to his break down and fucking the princess) more than in accomplishing his dream? But if he is asked to prioritise love rather than his dream he says, "wait, what? lol, no! wouldn't you feel betrayed if I suddenly gave up on my dream? I'm doing this for you! slaughtering all of you that is. What? You are saying I already betrayed my ideals long ago? I must have misunderstood you, there is too much blood shooting out of your belly. This is for the bigger purpose, the bigger prupose, you hear?" Or you might even be saying that in reality everything that happend from the point of Guts leaving Griffith was just a coincidence? Father, drunk, got fired today and shot his wife and kids? aka griffith fucking princess loli Sorry, I'm not saying that that is an unrealistic character or anything, but I just thought this manga was more than that. I thought this Manga was something more, something where two people completly do everything to protect their ideals without just talking shit or giving in to the little urges here and there ... Something that has a truly amazing antagonist, who I actually could admire ... Well. So, I hope somebody is able to understand what I'm saying and make a reasonable comment, please don't give in to the urge of simply definding your lovely favorite manga without getting my point first, though if you ask a question about a missunderstanding or so I will consider clearing that up. you've read the whole thing. right!!? please don't turn this into a personal conlflict. I'm aware of not being the smatest person in the universe, but this is not about me being too stupid or hating or anything. There is one other point that is consider a disspointment, but I already mentioned the core problem above. This point is something less complex. In my opinion the arcs following the rape all sucked (were "fine" or diverging towards "fine" the further the plot proceeded until chapter 333). The Manga is drifting more and more main stream. What is with these frickin shounen characters? And that oh so awesome mega power berserk armor, and all the epic item shit? wtf? (Yeah, I like to put questionmarks and say fuck and shit a lot) Seriously, all I ever needed was Guts fricking huge crappy sword-thingy ... if Berserk is gonna try to be a shounen now, then the reason for the long hiatus probably is that they know they could as well give up, for one piece already is a 10 times better shounen than this will ever be. (being slightly sarcastic here, ... maybe) So that's it from me, man, I really gotta stop giving in to these urges of spending like two hours on wrting shit ... wait I'm not done yet, damn it. Of course there is a reason why I kept reading the Manga, that was to see if they manage to "make up for it", but they didn't, so far. I read a thread where people tried to explain just what exactly is going on with Griffith and saying stuff like "He raped Casca because he needs the child ... maybe." or "he did it because he was fucked up at Guts for betrying him and wanted to get back at him" If you understood what I wrote above then you should already understand that these arguements change nothing to little about my point of view. |
ShylpFeb 23, 2014 10:08 PM
| #SUBJECTIVE |
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| #BECAUSE_IT_IS_AWESOME.. Stop being so tsundere about it :3 |
Kagami_Hiiragi said: Idc if you think its weird, I have a life and friends and an income of money. |
YorozuyaGinSan said: #SUBJECTIVE yes. I never claimed anything else. come back when you want to comment to this in a productive manner. lol, of course it is subjective, but assuming that what I say is reasonable than I can't understand how so many people rate this manga 10, it's just ... extremely unlikely? Or if I'm wrong, where am I wrong? It should be pretty obvious to others considering that everybody else seems to love this manga ... Actually I don't even really think this Manga is a 6 in terms of quality, I just say that because I'm really disappointed, and that clouds my jugdement. Maybe it's still a 7 or 8 skyzblue said: #BECAUSE_IT_IS_AWESOME.. Stop being so tsundere about it :3 thanks, anybody knows where I can find the people that actually want to discuss manga? Also according to your manga list at least you have only read until chapter 70? Yeah, I thought the same around that chapter, it was awesome. |
ShylpFeb 23, 2014 10:58 PM
Heredity said: sorry? would you rather have me delete the paragraphs?^^Penned by Picasso, duh. also I'm not sure about your use of the term "duh" "Duh means "No shit sherlock" and/or "Thank you captain obvious"" http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=duh but hey, we are have the freedom of artists ... |
ShylpFeb 23, 2014 10:56 PM
| well, I like it because it is very manly Lol the characters are interesting and the battles are great besides drawing first, on the violation, you must understand that this is not the griffin we met anymore, he doesnt care nothing about rape gasca he only makes it because known that gutts cares, this is a world where honor and pride are everything , this just had to happen to also demonstrate the degree of wickedness and perversion that acquired the new griffin and accentuate his new inhumanity moreover, gutts not only infuriates for the fact of the violation, but also by the betrayal of a friend and above all a person he admired so much (almost idolized) about griffin psychology, he is the kind of person with big dreams, an idealist, as well as he idealized his life, he idealized himself too. he believes that will be fine with another person to leave him to go back in search of his dream, but then he had never known what it feels like to have a friend, so when gutts decide to leave, he not only refuses this, then he realizes he is weak against him and the things were not as he believed otherwise, a griffin doesn't care lust or fuck the princess, and did not mind raping gaska, he just started to put all their hopes of having his own kingdom in gutts inadvertently, so when gutts opted to leave, and griffin realized he had advanced his toward his dream in the more recent years with gutts that in all that time alone, in that moment he realized how important it was gutts within their goals he was stripped suddenly of security gutts offered him, he could not accept himself, and lost his head probably was full of panic, in addition to discovering that gutts is more stronger than he now, so without his masterpiece, all for him lost sense perhaps pass through his mind that he can't beat gutts anymore and he was an obstacle to be a king, so he try to prove himself seducing the princess, something that gutts can't do but it didn't work, and he understood that he appreciated gutts that as a friend, but while hated because now he is more stronger and being an obstacle to future, maybe by that time, he see gutts as better than himself so we have a mixture of emotions and realizations in griffin that led to despair among other things or that's what I understood. anyway, I understand your point of view too and opinion of the manga, since it is focused on the way you understood it, maybe the way that everyone interprets it, make the difference? |
| @K4IZER Wow. Thank you so much for the first real reply to this thread! What you said is very coherent and is build on a good foundation. Also I have to admitt that I envy your skill to deliver your message in so view words. I'm kind of having trouble jus letting go of my opinion, but I will seriously have to reconsider a little bit for now. |
| I agree about the princess part. That perhaps my only problem and the only flaw in the Golden age arc. I also don't think Berserk deserve the praise it gets, but I do like the Golden age arc and I think it's well written. I didn't think the rape scene was unnecessary or bad. You have to take into account what Griffith suffered through One full year worth of mental and physical torture before Guts and Casca rescued him. The rape thing was all about power. Griffith felt extremely weak, while watching Guts rescue him. It also has to do with the fact that Griffith might not think much of Casca romantically but it was a good ego booster for him to have Casca admire him and idolize him and Guts took that away from him. I don't think much of the rape scene itself, it didn't really provoke that much emotion from me, but I think it was justified and played important part to Guts. Then there are the arcs after the Golden age arc and my god, do they suck. The story feels completely directionless. I don't even know if the story is trying to setup for a final showdown between Griffith and Guts or what exactly, because Griffith completely changed as a character who seem to have something more important in his mind than Guts who also doesn't seem to care that much about Griffith. I also can't believe that Casca became completely useless to the plot and is a mere hindrance to Guts and co. I hoped that she will eventually get back her memory because I don't get the point of her character anymore. The loli having a crush on Guts is extremely unnecessary, the closet pervert girl is uninteresting and many other things bugs me about the 'new' Berserk. I completely lost my interest on the manga and I'm not even caught up to the latest chapter because what's the fucking point? |
tsudecimoFeb 24, 2014 12:30 AM
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| This is the same for every manga. A lot of people like attack on titan and one piece, but not everyone will like them. It all comes down to opinion. No manga will ever have a 100% liking, simple because everyone has different taste. |
| If I should believe in God. I should also believe in the tooth fairy. The bible is man made. It was Made by bearded men to try and control people with their beliefs. Off topic. No anime can even come close to Nana. :P |
| I dunno. Griffith turning evil didn't seem so shocking to me. Griffith had always wanted power, so when he was at his absolute worst and saw a way to get a lot power quick, he took the bait. But yeah, if you consider the entire thing to be bs, obviously you wouldn't think it's a masterpiece. As for later arcs, while Golden Age is still my favourite arc, I did like them. If the manga is going more mainstream or whatever is not a bad thing to me (One Piece, the manga, is mainstream shounen and I think is a masterpiece). I suppose that what turns some people off about them is that story moved away from it's close and personal perspective of early arcs and made the world bigger and added more characters, taking away focus from Gutts. To me it seems that everything starting from this point was just to move everything into the place the author decided it should be, but not because that is really how it is Huh? However the author decides to go about with HIS story is "how it really is". What is with these frickin shounen characters? And that oh so awesome mega power berserk armor, and all the epic item shit? wtf? What shounen characters? Anyway, Gutts was in desperate need of a power up. I mean how the hell do you expect him to fight God Hand without. Early in the manga he got completely owned by Griffith. tsudecimo said: I don't even know if the story is trying to setup for a final showdown between Griffith and Guts or what exactly, because Griffith completely changed as a character who seem to have something more important in his mind than Guts who also doesn't seem to care that much about Griffith. I also can't believe that Casca became completely useless to the plot and is a mere hindrance to Guts and co. I hoped that she will eventually get back her memory because I don't get the point of her character anymore. An eventual final battle between Gutts and Griffith is obvious, but Miura is apparently planning to stretch this manga for a while, so the story is not going there yet at all. Why do Gutts and Griffith have to be thinking about each other? It's not like they never do, though Gutts probably will when he's informed about Griffith's plan's succeeding. How is Casca irrelevant to the plot when she's basically the reason Gutts and co. are going to Elfheim? |
on 
| Actually I only read Berserk until the last chapter of golden arc, since from what I've heard, it's the best manga arc ever made. But since it's pretty rare to see thread like this, I might give my opinion as well lol My main problem with this manga is how women were portrayed. Most of women I saw here always had a chance to be drawn in a sexualized way. Be it a princess, a warrior, a queen. Pagan orgy, rape, sekuhara attempt, sex scene... I know it's seinen manga and has mature theme, but from what I see, it's almost like Miura using this manga to satisfy his lust while trying to make a fitting story. About golden arc itself... Yes, it was well written, but mainly it's just Guts' back story alone. An introduction, just a reason to justify the way he acts now. A good story, indeed. But I don't find it as the best arc whatsoever since the story is just about all kinds of misfortune bestowed upon Guts. Parents died, being raped, abandoned, betrayed, lonely, and finally NTR. I, too, wonder why people consider this manga as a masterpiece. Maybe this manga is just not for me. |
| @Shylp, are you being sarcastic with me? .. maybe..? Well.. I'm sorry if you do not understand something, I'm Russian and is a bit difficult for me in any case, this tsudecimo said: I didn't think the rape scene was unnecessary or bad. You have to take into account what Griffith suffered through One full year worth of mental and physical torture before Guts and Casca rescued him. The rape thing was all about power. Griffith felt extremely weak, while watching Guts rescue him. It also has to do with the fact that Griffith might not think much of Casca romantically but it was a good ego booster for him to have Casca admire him and idolize him and Guts took that away from him. I don't think much of the rape scene itself, it didn't really provoke that much emotion from me, but I think it was justified and played important part to Guts. totally agree, no one could have said it better and more agree that after the gold arc things lose some course I currently only have come to read 290 chapters or a little more but I have to say that although its true that I like this not compared with the first chapters, and that's something we all know berserk is a good manga like many others, butI think the first chapters are which make it "a masterpiece" for several of us |
| @K4IZER Sorry, did it sound that way? No I was not being sacastic. I don't speek english so well either, so I don't pay attaintion to things like language so much. Also K4IZER, concerning your last quote, you did in fact say it better. You are giving yourself too little credit. Only covering tsudecimo said: I didn't think the rape scene was unnecessary or bad. You have to take into account what Griffith suffered through One full year worth of mental and physical torture before Guts and Casca rescued him. The rape thing was all about power. Griffith felt extremely weak, while watching Guts rescue him. It also has to do with the fact that Griffith might not think much of Casca romantically but it was a good ego booster for him to have Casca admire him and idolize him and Guts took that away from him. I don't think much of the rape scene itself, it didn't really provoke that much emotion from me, but I think it was justified and played important part to Guts. Is not quite enough to argue with me. But K4IZER said: he believes that will be fine with another person to leave him to go back in search of his dream, but then he had never known what it feels like to have a friend, so when gutts decide to leave, he not only refuses this, then he realizes he is weak against him and the things were not as he believed otherwise, a griffin doesn't care lust or fuck the princess, and did not mind raping gaska, he just started to put all their hopes of having his own kingdom in gutts inadvertently, so when gutts opted to leave, and griffin realized he had advanced his toward his dream in the more recent years with gutts that in all that time alone, in that moment he realized how important it was gutts within their goals he was stripped suddenly of security gutts offered him, he could not accept himself, and lost his head probably was full of panic, in addition to discovering that gutts is more stronger than he now, so without his masterpiece, all for him lost sense perhaps pass through his mind that he can't beat gutts anymore and he was an obstacle to be a king, so he try to prove himself seducing the princess, something that gutts can't do but it didn't work, and he understood that he appreciated gutts that as a friend, but while hated because now he is more stronger and being an obstacle to future, maybe by that time, he see gutts as better than himself so we have a mixture of emotions and realizations in griffin that led to despair among other things or that's what I understood. anyway, I understand your point of view too and opinion of the manga, since it is focused on the way you understood it, maybe the way that everyone interprets it, make the difference? You actually made the character of griffin believable here. Ghost001 said: Well, indeed, but I wouldn't have made a thread if I didn't see a bigger problem than this in here. You probably didn't get my point: What I was trying to do, was to show my understanding of the Manga to this point and why I cannot believe that so many people would like it. Why this is legitimate? Because beeing rated best Manga on MAL is most likely more than a mere coincidence. The view that K4IZER gave me on this Manga made it a little more reasonable btw.This is the same for every manga. A lot of people like attack on titan and one piece, but not everyone will like them. It all comes down to opinion. No manga will ever have a 100% liking, simple because everyone has different taste. BatoKusanagi said: Huh? However the author decides to go about with HIS story is "how it really is". What shounen characters? Anyway, Gutts was in desperate need of a power up. I mean how the hell do you expect him to fight God Hand without. Early in the manga he got completely owned by Griffith. The crucial mistake in understanding I can hear in your words is that in my opinion an author that makes the promise to write a believable story with thinkable and coherent characters would betray his audience in just pushing the story into one direction without having the right setup or timing. Well also the Style of the Manga just completely changed, what I personally don't consider a good thing, but yeah, that's YorozuyaGinSan said: #SUBJECTIVE The Manga doesn't feel as dirty and blunt anymore it's just a crowd of overpowered Nakama, running threw fantasy world solving problems for people here and there. I can see how some might like it, but to me switching from Seinen to shounen is a downgrading ... You ask how these are shounen characters? Well, admittedly, looking at the background story, maybe they are not. But look how they interact, how they function as a group it's just a copy of one piece basically and doesn't have the same taste the characters used to have. (love one piece btw) K4IZER said: I currently only have come to read 290 chapters or a little more but I have to say that although its true that I like this not compared with the first chapters, and that's something we all know Yeah, you don't have to catch up, really, as I said it just keeps getting worse ... Thanks for all your replies and opinions, I'm sorry for not covering all of them. |
Shylp said: The crucial mistake in understanding I can hear in your words is that in my opinion an author that makes the promise to write a believable story with thinkable and coherent characters would betray his audience in just pushing the story into one direction without having the right setup or timing. Well also the Style of the Manga just completely changed, what I personally don't consider a good thing, but yeah, that's Again, it's not your story. You're entitled to your opinion about where the manga should be going, but it's not up to you to decide how things "really are" in this manga. |
| Because people don't have the same tastes in manga as you. It's a pretty simple concept. |
an egomaniac and a fool |
| Sorry OP but I stopped reading at "I will ignore any comments from people that do not understand what I mean by this" your tone was too obnoxious for me to continue to read your post. It's a great manga, it has it's fault especially as of late but there's a good reason why it's rated so high. You sound like the same crowd that hates on FMA:B because it's number 1. I know that Berserk isn't a masterpiece but it's easily one of the best manga's I have ever read. TL;DR: YorozuyaGinSan said: #SUBJECTIVE |
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Emnay said: Actually it's not, I think I might have missunderstood the Manga, if that's the case, if I understood it maybe I would have liked it.Because people don't have the same tastes in manga as you. It's a pretty simple concept. Uriel_The_Fourth said: Sorry OP but I stopped reading at "I will ignore any comments from people that do not understand what I mean by this" your tone was too obnoxious for me to continue to read your post. It's a great manga, it has it's fault especially as of late but there's a good reason why it's rated so high. You sound like the same crowd that hates on FMA:B because it's number 1. I know that Berserk isn't a masterpiece but it's easily one of the best manga's I have ever read. TL;DR: YorozuyaGinSan said: #SUBJECTIVE I'm sorry that you see it that way. And I do not really hate Berserk. You all seem to missunderstand the purpose of this thread, but of course I admit, that it is my own fault for phrasing things in a bad way. The purpose for me was to find out in just what way people look at this Manga differently then I do. If you can't respect that, then at least please refrain from looking down on others and deciding to what kind of people they belong. Though, thanks for your opinion on Berserk. Edit: One thing to add, I read the Manga and came up with my thoughts and opinions about it before I ever knew about it's rating on MAL, meaning there is no causal relation between my opinion and the rating of the Manga. It's rather that I was surprised at it. |
ShylpFeb 24, 2014 3:32 PM
| I guess some people read berserk wrong sometimes. And then this kind of thread happens T_T |
| Nowadays, Berserk seems like a MMORPG, it was a time when it was so good... |
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Shylp said: Well, admittedly, looking at the background story, maybe they are not. But look how they interact, how they function as a group it's just a copy of one piece basically and doesn't have the same taste the characters used to have. (love one piece btw) I'm all for respecting people's opinions when it comes to their own preferences and/or interpretations in manga, especially something like Berserk, but saying it copied One Piece when it comes to protagonists making companions? What now? Now thats when i cannot take you seriously any longer. So basically you're saying that every manga out there, of course thats including ALL shonen battle manga when it comes to companionship, ripped off One Piece, is that what you're trying to imply that as well? I'm slrry..I just can't... oh yeah, to answer your topic question? its pretty much because of the epic scale of the world Miura had built and the characters' relationships with one another.And yes I know that Berserk does has its ups and downs, this is especially evident when it comes to the a rather mundane sea god chapters in the Fantasia Arc. Overall it is still one of the better fantasy graphic novels that Japan had published. Minjko said: I think Miura is using all that party-nakama thing to develop Guts as a character. When he was alone travelling with Puck, he was a mad man, hating everybody, but now he seems calmer and more like a father to the kids. IMO Miura even used the berserk armor to make Guts look older by getting white hair. Well, at least that's how I see it. Maybe Miura didn't plan it like that and he is just being influenced by the "moe-harem" trend of these last years. Although I completely agree with your first half of your post, you're still completely missing the point. Guts gets the armor just to grow older white hair? If that's what you're trying to only imply,then you're mistaken. Did you even realised how many apostles he needs to fight at that point of time in his weakened state? hell, even Guts had a tough time fighting one apostle at a time even before he'd gotten his berserker armor. Plus, the Berserker armor is a double edged sword. Even when Shierke was able to control its power, it still doesnt stop the armor from not eating up and breaking his body afterwards. So its not just a simple "power-up", far from it. cheers. And to your statement where Miura being influenced by the "moe-harem" genre.....you're kidding, right? where's the sources did you get it from? and no, not that idolM@ster bullcrap *rolls eyes* I'm sure the Lost Children Arc is also catered to that recent trend too right...right? so moe /sarcasm short_review said: I guess some people read berserk wrong sometimes. And then this kind of thread happens T_T Well, it is subjective when it comes to liking or disliking something. So it does not really bother me that much. BUT when it comes to a manga being alleged of being influenced by "moe" genre, ripping something off another manga or stating some presumptuous statements about the author like what OP had originally posted... thats when I call bullshit. tsudecimo said: The loli having a crush on Guts is extremely unnecessary, the closet pervert girl is uninteresting and many other things bugs me about the 'new' Berserk. Youre just readin too much into things really. Shierke is just a little girl having a precocious crush towards Guts, nothing more. And its pretty obvious that Guts only sees her as part of his "family", with a father-daughter kind of relationship. |
bbboi90Mar 10, 2014 11:33 PM
| A piece of my brain just shot out of my weiner!- Onodera Punpun |
| Why does Griffith break down and make love to the princess? I can think of two reasons. 1. He is in love with Guts 2. He has feels obligated to meet expectations. I don't think I need to explain the first point as it should be rather obvious. It's true that he explained what he considered a true friend, but he never said he specifically wanted guts to be his friend. No he wanted far more than that, he wanted to "own" guts "Now you're all mine". You could say he's been infatuated with guts for quite awhile. This of course caused him to lose sight of his vision because he was prioritizing his feelings for guts over his feelings for conquest. Now being obligated to meet expectations. This is explained with the road of corpses that he had made himself in his conquest. You could say it's possible he convinced himself that there shouldn't be any failures in achieving his dream based on what he has made others sacrifice. Losing guts...is not something he could foresee, which he probably considered a supreme failure which caused his vision to be blinded even further. Both he and guts overestimated his ability to get back up after such failure as a consequence. The whole princess thing of course was not something he thought about, or rather it's possible he chose not to think about it. He got hasty rather than skillfully planning things out because his emotional state was a wreck. Did he do it because he wanted comfort? Did he do it because he wanted to fall even harder (as he seems to care very little when he is caught)? There's more possibilities at hand. The whole eclipse thing can be interpreted in numerous ways of course. You could say he raped Casca in front of Guts to throw everything about their relationship away completely. You could say he did it as revenge for leaving him. You could say he did it to test how much of an overpowering god he had become. But yeah, it's up for interpretation. |
Minjko said: bbboi90 said: Minjko said: I think Miura is using all that party-nakama thing to develop Guts as a character. When he was alone travelling with Puck, he was a mad man, hating everybody, but now he seems calmer and more like a father to the kids. IMO Miura even used the berserk armor to make Guts look older by getting white hair. Well, at least that's how I see it. Maybe Miura didn't plan it like that and he is just being influenced by the "moe-harem" trend of these last years. Although I completely agree with your first half of your post, you're still completely missing the point. Guts gets the armor just to grow older white hair? If that's what you're trying to only imply,then you're mistaken. Did you even realised how many apostles he needs to fight at that point of time in his weakened state? hell, even Guts had a tough time fighting one apostle at a time even before he'd gotten his berserker armor. Plus, the Berserker armor is a double edged sword. Even when Shierke was able to control its power, it still doesnt stop the armor from not eating up and breaking his body afterwards. So its not just a simple "power-up", far from it. cheers. And to your statement where Miura being influenced by the "moe-harem" genre.....you're kidding, right? where's the sources did you get it from? and no, not that idolM@ster bullcrap *rolls eyes* I'm sure the Lost Children Arc is also catered to that recent trend too right...right? so moe /sarcasm Yes, I know the white hair is caused by the stress of the body the armor causes when he fights. But I didn't mean like that. It's a little hard to explain because english is not my first language. What I was trying to say is that the "white hair- older" thing is like a second intention of the author, the main reason is his body breaking up, but I THINK Miura is making a subtle approach that he is maturing by drawing him white hair. I don't know if you get me. Regarding the moe harem (first I should have just said harem because moe is a very vague term), I said MAYBE he is being influenced. So maybe you are right. Also in Lost Children, the girls didn't have a crush on Guts. PD: April 11. The Return of Berserk. =D Okay I understand what you're trying to say and I apologise in my way of replying to your post, as I see this 'moe' term as pretty insulting in a series such as Berserk. But, I don't think there is a harem in what you're implying here as it doesn't cater to "which girl is gonna get Guts in the end" scenario imho. The former church militant Farnese figurehead, from the moment her faith in the Holy See is crushed after seeing the truth of her religion at the end and after the Conviction arc, she sees Guts as some sort of a symbol of worship that saves her from a false faith she had blindly followed throughout her youth, drastically changing her world view altogether. This is rather similar to how Casca changed her apathetic nature in dealing with things to becoming a strong independent woman after being saved by Griffith from becoming a potential sex slave, as she herself sees him like a saviour at the time as well. Although having a precocious crush on Guts at first, there is a legitimate and realistic reason of why Farnese had slowly developed feelings towards Guts after learning the ways of surviving in this harsh world, just like how Casca was. Also, there's an implication Farnese might return her feelings to her betrothed Roderick, but thats how I interpret it from reading the volumes *shrugs*. And as for Schierke, like what I had mentioned in my previous post, she's just a young girl that developed a huge crush on Guts after he helps to comfort her about her mistress' death. This is evident in volume 28 when Sonia asked about it, saying " he's an adult that paid attention to me, and I kinda enjoyed it a little..". Like how some adolescent girls and even boys do at their age, who wouldn't feel happy inside when someone were to comfort you? I know I do when I was still young :). From what I had read, its strongly implied that Guts only treats her as his family, like a father-daughter kind of relationship. Plus there's a few if not subtle hints being dropped between Isidro and Schierke as well if you know what I mean. Thus I stand by my point and strongly disagree that these two are unlike the girls shown in many harem manga/anime that seemed to explicitly but obnoxiously show their love for the main protagonist only for superficial reasons. Oh, and for the Lost Children Arc, I was just sarcastically pointing out the "moe" term you were trying to point out earlier. So, I apologise for that :/ Sorry for the long-winded reply tho, just wanna get my point across. cheers ;) |
| A piece of my brain just shot out of my weiner!- Onodera Punpun |
| I've never seen so much text on a MAL thread ... Berserk fans coming out in force. Yeah to me it also felt like everything happens "for the sake of the plot" mind you I haven't even reached 100 chapters into it yet, the characters action, motives etc. just all seem somewhat out of place & quite forced kinda but not to the extent of Gantz (yes). I can't really fathom its popularity & appeal either but people like it when an insanely buff guy goes around chopping people in half all "manly" like (apparently they do), kinda like Angel Beats fans appreciate all those feels moments even though the in-between getting there is half-assed, 2 sides of the same coin if you ask me. |
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Sloth_ said: I can't really fathom its popularity & appeal either but people like it when an insanely buff guy goes around chopping people in half all "manly" like (apparently they do), kinda like Angel Beats fans appreciate all those feels moments even though the in-between getting there is half-assed, 2 sides of the same coin if you ask me. Well, I'm afraid that it is not for you then. And you're completely missing the point of just a buff guy cutting people down. so you're just reading for the sake of action then? cus it seems to me you're implying exactly just that ...just saying |
| A piece of my brain just shot out of my weiner!- Onodera Punpun |
bbboi90 said: Ah no I was actually expecting an epic tale with good action, seems I got neither :/ it's a bit of an exaggeration to say it as I did (didn't really expect anyone to take a gross hyperbole at face value), but if 1 (say I) found the story to be so haphazard & so un-engaging (a little eye-role-worthy too) it wouldn't appear to be all that much more, to be honest :/ "not for me": so true, that was kinda my whole point in a nutshell ....Sloth_ said: I can't really fathom its popularity & appeal either but people like it when an insanely buff guy goes around chopping people in half all "manly" like (apparently they do), kinda like Angel Beats fans appreciate all those feels moments even though the in-between getting there is half-assed, 2 sides of the same coin if you ask me. Well, I'm afraid that it is not for you then. And you're completely missing the point of just a buff guy cutting people down. so you're just reading for the sake of action then? cus it seems to me you're implying exactly just that ...just saying |
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| Because it is. Bet you didn't see that coming. |
Minjko said: bbboi90 said: Oh, ok. Thanks for the apologize. =P After reading all that, I agree with you. They have a good reason to fall in love. I had forgotten about how Farnese felt after she discovered her religion was false and also about the character Roderick (lol). Also I know Guts only sees Schierke as a daughter or a little sister, but I was kinda annoyed that Berserk could become a harem. I don't dislike them, but I wouldn't like my favorite manga to have that as a theme. I read in some forums about Miura playing Idolmaster, so I was a little preoccupied. Well, it seems it's just a minor theme that will probably disappear thanks to Isidro and Roderick. cheers Well, at least Schierke, for obvious reasons, know that Guts will not return her feelings cus she's too damn young. Kinda make me curious whether or not her mistress Flora had something going on between her and the skull knight in the distant past :) Yeah its easy to overlook and forget about some of the subtleties of the plotting at times, especially because of the veeeeryyyy inconsistent schedule of the manga. Sooo yeah. Cheers |
bbboi90Mar 11, 2014 11:02 AM
| A piece of my brain just shot out of my weiner!- Onodera Punpun |
| Maybe because the very part that you are disappointed in is what a lot of readers consider one of the greatest segments in comic book history. |
| I am yet to catch up with the Manga , but frankly speaking everything past the Golden Age Saga has been sucky So, in a way I do agree to most of Shylp's view of this Manga. |
| I actually think the Golden Age Arc is the worst one and never understood why people like it so much. The reason I love Berserk is because contrary to many anime and manga it does a serious take on the whole demon/apocalypse theme. You can hardly compare to anything else in the same genre because that's usually teenagers with superpowers fighting against monsters and fanservice thrown into it. I won't even consider all the sex in Berserk (yea I know there's a lot) fanservice because it just fits into the fucked up world, instead of appearing at random times. |
| The strength of the Golden Age arc alone makes this manga a masterpiece. I have yet to read an arc in any manga which so intricately weaves plot, wordbuilding, characterization, art, humor, brutality, hope, and despair together to create a flawless tapestry of storytelling as brilliantly as Berserk. Even if the rest of the manga has been lackluster, I simply can't bring myself to regard it as anything but a masterpiece when it was able to attain such heights in its prime. |
gilgamesh310 said: tsudecimo said: Well I disagree. It made sense that Griffith would react like that. He clearly valued Guts as much more than a mere possession, like he did everyone else. He was likely in love with him. There was also the fact that Guts disobeyed him and beat him in a fight. All this would have severely damaged Griffith's ego. Lets not forget that he was pretty evil from the start. His nice guy act was mostly a facade, but Guts was perhaps the only genuinely cared for. I completely bought his reaction to Guts leaving.I agree about the princess part. That perhaps my only problem and the only flaw in the Golden age arc. The downfall of Griffith was frankly just lame. I understand why he did what he did, and his feelings for Guts leaving, but it was not really convincing what transpired from those feeling. Considering the fact that Griffith is not an idiot and he knows the severe consequences of sleeping with the princess. It just wasn't realistic and believable to me. |
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| You all know that we will have the same discussion ten years from now when Berserk would still be in progress. I seems to me that even Miura doesn't care about the manga |
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| I find it difficult to call something a masterpiece before it's finished, but as it is i give it a 10/10. The golden age arc was the best arc, as everyone says, i don't see anything that was really so unbelievable, there was talk among characters saying they didn't know what type of person griffith was. Griffith even said himself that his men are pretty much just tools for him to achieve his dream, so why wouldn't he sacrifice them for power to come closer to realizing his dream? Especially after guts left him. And raping Casca is just a fuck you or maybe he was jelous. I dont remember so much of the later arcs, i'm rereading as i buy it now and i'm coming to the end of the golden age arc now :D I don't really have a problem with the magic items and i've never thought of it as a "shounen" I like the berserk armor as well, i don't see why so many people dislike it, gutts is going to be fighting a god >.< Anyway, the artwork is obviously a huge plus, the relationship between guts and griffith, the general theme of it and how guts has developed throughout the series. Also the hype surrounding characters like the skull knight and guts fighting griffith, if we ever get to that >.> I've never really been bored while reading berserk, i like all the arcs and think miura is a great storyteller. Those are my reasons, i could think of more, but i cba. |
jimbob1141Sep 26, 2014 11:14 AM
| Does anyone else need a doctor to confirm that someone without a head is dead? |
| I don't know either. It's mostly gore and action fan-service, appeals to a lot of edgy teenagers I guess, same reason why Akame ga kill is popular. |
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0Gintoki_san0 said: I don't know either. It's mostly gore and action fan-service, appeals to a lot of edgy teenagers I guess, same reason why Akame ga kill is popular. Thats not the case at all. I think you either love Berserk or you don't. Its not bout being edgy or any of that. When you read it you can feel the amazingness lol. I don't know how to explain, but a Berserk fan understands, the story hits you hard. I never felt more emotion than when I read Berserk. |
| it is above average, really like the art but there's nothing new to it |
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| I agree, there isn't enough lolis. |
tsudecimo said: gilgamesh310 said: Well I disagree. It made sense that Griffith would react like that. He clearly valued Guts as much more than a mere possession, like he did everyone else. He was likely in love with him. There was also the fact that Guts disobeyed him and beat him in a fight. All this would have severely damaged Griffith's ego. Lets not forget that he was pretty evil from the start. His nice guy act was mostly a facade, but Guts was perhaps the only genuinely cared for. I completely bought his reaction to Guts leaving. The downfall of Griffith was frankly just lame. I understand why he did what he did, and his feelings for Guts leaving, but it was not really convincing what transpired from those feeling. Considering the fact that Griffith is not an idiot and he knows the severe consequences of sleeping with the princess. It just wasn't realistic and believable to me. It was very believable. Griffith was the type of guy that nobody could deny. He always got what he wanted, and he was serious when he told Guts that he belonged to him. When Guts decided to part ways, it was his first real loss and since he felt Guts was integral to his plan for taking over the kingdom he kinda lost his shit. Griffith was very smart, but he was also very unstable. He was and still is a very determined goal driven guy. Willing to sacrifice anything to achieve his dream. Everyone else is just a means to an end. The fact that someone had the audacity to deny him, was like denying him his goal/dream. His mind shattered, he had never tasted defeat before. In poor judgement he decided to hurt himself by rapping the Princess. At least that's the way I saw it. Honestly that entire arc was a stroke of genius. I can understand why some people dislike Berserk as a whole, but I have yet to meet someone with very legitimate complains against the Golden Age arc. That said it's not for everyone, as many others have already said. |
FullmetalRaikouDec 19, 2014 7:23 AM
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