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Jan 17, 2012 5:47 AM
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Jan 2012
362
That last scene... the way he sliced up this dude, you can clearly see he was pissed. And Kohza... she got what she deserved. The perfect revenge.
Feb 6, 2012 7:34 PM

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Jul 2009
384
Mugen is a BOSS
KyonSmithFeb 6, 2012 7:42 PM
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Mar 19, 2012 11:58 AM

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Nov 2011
706
Up to this point, I thought the series was at most decent and entertaining.

This episode for me though, it this shows version of ballad of fallen angels from Cowboy Bebop, so now has definatly hooked me.

That last scene was pure manliness!
Apr 2, 2012 4:44 AM

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Jan 2012
217
I don't understood end of this episode. So..she deceived them..but what about did she deceived??
May 2, 2012 12:04 AM

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Mar 2012
2884
PrometheusZero said:
Plans within plans within plans!

Oh, so many twists and turns! Bogglemind goodness!


Plots on plots on plots!

And that last scene very nearly gave me goosebumps. You reap what you sow, Koza!
May 9, 2012 9:38 PM

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Apr 2011
601
Koza got fucking PWND!!! Mugen FTW!!
Jun 2, 2012 12:08 PM

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Nov 2011
129050
That glorious ending, Mugen is such a boss.
Jun 3, 2012 8:59 PM

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Mar 2012
88
Disabled Mugen slashes up Shiren XD But god Koza freaking pissed me off. I hate it when anime girls play the *I love you* part and turn out to be total whores >_>
Jun 11, 2012 5:47 PM

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Apr 2007
5407
This has always been one of the most memorable episodes in the series for me. The last scene is just as powerful the second time around too. Simply amazing.
Jun 25, 2012 4:48 AM

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Aug 2011
625
That last scene was just brilliantly directed.

Koza just ain't worth killing for. The way Mugen spared her life was just badass. Even though, he said nothing when he walked passed her, it's like he's really saying: "Go on and continue your life, bitch. I don't want to see your ugly ass again". xD
Aug 13, 2012 2:53 PM

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Jan 2008
362
The music made this episode pretty brilliant.


Sep 17, 2012 3:51 AM
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Sep 2012
2
This is, like, a 9 year old show but I had to register to post this:

I don't understand the hatred against Mugen's childhood friend. I assume everything we were watching up to this point was legit. There's no way she was planning this from childhood, so her emotions must have been legit.

Her having her brother killed and going off with someone else is totally understandable, too. Since he was controlling and she was tired of living the life of a delinquent. She also didn't betray Mugen or anything. The only person that was betrayed was her brother.

Now, she KNEW Mugen might have gotten hurt, cause her brother did say he was gonna kill everyone off. She didn't warn Mugen. She must have also been planning this with the other guy before she even met with Mugen last episode, so she was planning to run away with him before Mugen even entered the picture.

So last episode, perhaps she had a change of mind and wanted Mugen to kill off the other guy, but when Mugen declined she just kinda went with it. She didn't tell Mugen her brother was gonna betray everyone, though. That's the ONLY thing she did against Mugen to betray him. Otherwise, she probably had this planned out before Mugen even showed up, and Mugen turned her down ANYWAY.

The worst thing she did was use Jin to kill her brother, and not tell Mugen her brother was setting everyone up (although that was probably so that her brother carried the heist out completely and got the money as planned, still, it almost cost Mugen his life).

She honestly doesn't deserve all the hatred she gets. It's why I was a little confused at the ending. I still thought it was BADASS, but she obviously cared about him and could've had a better life. The only justification I can find for TAKING that from her is:

-she manipulated people into killing her brother (they were gonna kill him ANYWAY)
-she moved on from Mugen so quickly (he didn't like her ANYWAY)
-speculation: perhaps she WAS in love with the other guy and already GOT OVER Mugen, but still lead him on
-She didn't warn people of her brother's betrayal because she was gonna get a lot of money at the end

the episode at the end didn't really portray her as a bad person. She talks of wanting him not to leave her and such. It was really just Mugen being a badass and taking down the guy that was partially behind the whole heist that almost got him killed. He probably killed the guy because of the heist, not because he wanted to take something away from his childhood friend. He let her live because he didn't wanna kill her. Alternatively, he killed the guy to take her happiness, and let her live so that she can suffer. It's one or the other. Or maybe its just Mugen being badass.


My god this is a long post. Anyway, my take on it. In the end, I think she wasn't portrayed overtly negatively or anything. The only puzzling thing is why she came onto Mugen last episode. Either it was an act (doubt it, she wasn't trying to get anything out of him except being with him), or she was rethinking her plans with the other guy and when Mugen rejected her she decided to go along with the other guy. The only thing she's guilty of is not telling Mugen of her brother's betrayal, cause it almost cost Mugen his life. Maybe Mugen was just tired of being used by that family. Whatever
-
Sep 18, 2012 3:04 PM

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May 2012
53
Awesome Mugen being awesome. Don't die even if he's killed.

I liked this episode, though it's not the same rank, as 11 ep. Still - jolly good.
Nov 7, 2012 10:23 AM

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May 2012
25828
Damn nice, though now no one knows where the hidden gold is, and he left the girl all alone she doesn't even know how to live her life from now on...

I wonder what's next!
Nov 28, 2012 2:58 PM
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Jul 2012
9396
I knew Rugen didn't die.
Rugen twist at the end! That was Awesome.
The way Jin killed him was unique.
5/5 for Rugen epicness
Dec 25, 2012 10:11 PM
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Dec 2012
13
This ep was absolutely beautiful. That song!!!
Jan 2, 2013 11:32 AM

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May 2011
3607
Oh man, this episode was art.

The whole "death scene"/Flashbacks while Mugen was drowning and the reactions of his friends. The finding of his body, the "revenge" by Jin on Mukuru (THAT animation), the revelation of the "betrayal", and finally, the ultimate payback by a cripple Mugen... he Slashed that guy into 3 in the blink of an eye and hand in hand, took away everything from the girl who doesn't know how to live on her own, and left her on that island to rot.

That was too deep.

10/10, this anime has seriously grown.

I seriously want to put a character on my favourites list, but the main cast is so strong and has such high compatibility I just want to put them all!
Feb 12, 2013 9:44 AM

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Aug 2012
738
There goes my TMJ

Amazing Episode.

This episode kinda explains why Mugen is accompanying fuu-chan on her journey. Cause he knows Fuu won't betray him.
Mar 4, 2013 2:21 PM
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Feb 2013
19
This episode is wonderful. This anime is 10/10.
Mar 12, 2013 5:13 PM
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Apr 2012
113
emp2907 said:
DaBigD said:
Yeah, Mugen won't die even if he's killed...


I'm wondering if those flashbacks of her caring for Mugen were genuine.


It is quite likely that the only reason she 'cared' for Mugen is because he is a powerful individual capable of getting her freedom and protecting her. Thats the conclusion i have come to after seeing that she didn't warn Mugen for the danger when he kind of rejected her and went with Shiren instead.

CptMoistPanties said:
---Huge post cut out---


You are correct on most things you say. Obviously the whole thing was planned even before Mugen got there.
I can give you some reasons why she is getting so much hate. First of all ill start with the fact that i have been annoyed with every second shes been on the screen, from start to finish, no exceptions. She's basicaly been crying during 90% of her screen time and then she turns out to be a whore as well. I can't really blame people for hating her at this point.
Then to comment on you saying that all she has done to 'betray' Mugen is to not warn him about Mukuro and this shouldn't be that much of big deal, right? Wrong. If she really cared about Mugen she would've warned him regardless of his rejection, because what would she gain by his death? Or rather, what would she lose by him being alive? So all i can say is that after she realized Mugen won't be any use to her she settled for the weaker Shiren and cast Mugen aside. I think we all agree that she didn't care about Shiren and only went with him to gain her freedom and I think the same thing would have applied to Mugen.
Morani90Mar 12, 2013 5:43 PM
Apr 1, 2013 7:02 AM
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Nov 2012
100
personally i think its horrible of people here to be caling her a whore and saying she deserves what she got. Your lack of empathy and understanding about people who've lived such lives is terrible. you remind me of the scene in M.M. Yuusha "you've never experienced starvation, have you"

All her life she's been controlled and under the thumb of her brother.

WHAT choice does she have when she helpless and the only people around her are horrible people or people who she cant depend upon. She tries to reach out to mugen but he just pushes her away.

She didnt betray him, that was her brother, and i dont think you guys give enough credit to someone from her time who's entire life has consisted of being controlled by a domineering monster like her brother was or Shiren. The only life she's known is being pulled around by others. You think a girl growing up in hell like that is easy? that she was abused and raped all over the place till nothing was left of her? That theres no justification for her being broken like she was? People like her are UNABLE to betray those who dominate them because its the only life they've known, filled with fear and pain.

How did she know that Mugen would be any different from 100% of all the other horrible men she's only ever known? when your life has been hell and everyone has been terrible there is no WAY you would ever imagine theres someone you can trust or that such a thing exists, because you have 0 experience to fall back on but 100% experience on everyone being scum.

Despite her circumstances, she TRIED to get away from Mugen and he shot her down. That in itself in her circumstances and life was amazing.

she took the only path mugen left her then.

She was a victim and tool, unable to escape her life but just switch from one master to another, all other paths just being even worse pain and death. How in a life thats hell was she ever supposed to have the character development where she would be strong enough to escape or tell mugen or not be dependant on others?

The msot she ever did was follow shirens plan to get her brother killed. which was just great, Jin would have done that ANYWAY.



but hey, we never had any Illusions what Mugen is.

What other choices did she have?! what could she have done?! tell mugen who doesnt give a shit so he'd kill all those men and leave her anyway?

a woman is a whore for moving on after men reject them or trying to escape a LIFE TIME of abuse and domination?

Him crawling his way straight to them somehow was bull by the way. Just as much as the plot convenience of not telling her anything till they got killed, like the captain in red vs blue who talked really slow till he got shot.

this is the difference between Jin. Mugen rejects you and then comes back to fuck up your life...just cause.

infact its rather intersting the huge constrast between them. Personalities, life events, colors, manner, looks. Jin meets a wholesome mature older woman and falls in love with her the first time and saves her from a terrible life to something better. Mugen has a young childhood friend who's broken and had a terrible life, mixed with betrayal and death, ending in him making her life even worse somehow.
IkuinenApr 1, 2013 7:13 AM
Apr 2, 2013 4:15 PM

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Dec 2012
8
Saorin said:
The music made this episode pretty brilliant.


This.

The drum roll at the end made me very amused as to what Mugen would do next.
Apr 13, 2013 3:11 AM
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Jul 2018
564074
absolute standout episode this one. the pinnacle of the anime was here. it had everything. Mugen ftw!
Apr 15, 2013 8:35 PM

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Oct 2008
4667
that final scene...holy shit. the music..
Apr 16, 2013 5:29 PM

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Apr 2013
23
I absolutely love Mugen's character and everything else about him really. This episode just made me like his character even more and remind me why he's my favorite out of the three of them.

I can easily rewatch this episode multiple times.
May 5, 2013 5:09 AM

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Oct 2010
166
Rewatching this series for the millionth time, and I gotta say Mugen dying and crossing over might be the single best piece of anime I've ever seen. It's still as impactful today as it was the first time I saw it many years ago.
Jun 1, 2013 8:06 PM

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Feb 2013
1275
Payback is truly a bitch. I liked how Mugen left that little bitch to suffer slowly in that island.

"And if, there were so many people in the world, there had to be someone living an interesting life that wasn't ordinary. I was sure of it. Why wasn't that person me?"
- The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya Part V
[/center]
Jun 29, 2013 12:47 PM

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Aug 2008
729
I agree with Ikuinen, she didn't deserve to have such an ending.
Aug 20, 2013 11:30 PM
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Oct 2012
4
Damn. I really enjoyed this episode for the most part, but I am so annoyed! The betrayal at the very end simply did not click in my brain. I didn't know what the hell was going on. I was left thinking wtf and it was only when I looked at some comments that I realised what had happened. Completely my fault, but it really tarnished the episode for me :(
Aug 28, 2013 10:22 PM

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Jan 2012
736
The music playing at the end really made me think that Mugen was gonna kill that whore
Oct 18, 2013 5:37 PM

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Aug 2012
1127
Mugen had no reason to kill the girl. The guy had to go though and it was nothing personal towards her.
She wasn't a whore. But now she is most likely going to be one, as there is not much else she can do and she lacks the strength to end her sad meaningless life.

Touka said:
Mugen's drowning/back-story sequence was completely mesmerizing and very powerful


I loved it. Especially the moment with the bird.
Dec 13, 2013 1:21 AM

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Nov 2013
310
Koza what a bitch.
She got what she deserved too!
The music built it up really nicely

Perfect ep 5/5
"I'm going to have to work harder to open your eyes, aren't I?" ~Erudito
"You're here because you want to feel like something you're not, a hero."
"Do you feel like a hero yet?" ~Konrad
Jan 9, 2014 2:22 AM
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Aug 2011
1165
This was the best ep. by far so far. Loved every second of it, especially the song in the beginning.
Jan 15, 2014 2:00 PM

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Apr 2013
607
Koza was a dependent, clingy bitch. Good for Mugen to bring her back to reality.

His past is still muddy though, despite having some vague flashbacks. Exactly what horrible things did Mugen do?
Powerful eyebrows.
Jan 22, 2014 6:54 PM

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Jul 2013
43
This episode was just great, and the last scene purely epic, everything was perfect, the music, the tension and the final.
Feb 4, 2014 9:31 PM

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Nov 2013
1632
Holy shit. Mugen fucked up that dude like he was swiss cheese.

Feb 22, 2014 12:18 PM

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Jan 2010
609
Akral said:

I really disliked the fact, that Mugen just ruined Kozas perfect life. I mean, yea, he was deceived, but what for kill the only guy, who knew, where the gold is hidden?
Ge.


The guy ran at him with a sword, Mugen wasnt gonna just stand there and be killed lmao
he probably wouldve left them alone if the guy didnt attack them
Mar 1, 2014 10:52 PM

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Oct 2013
37
omg this is one epic episode. the drama is lovely and the feelings are so pure. love it. just love it!

this is the song played during Mugen's dream scene. it ended up in my playlist hehe

Obokuri-Ee Umi by japanese folk singer Ikue Asazaki

constantly looking for the golden corn in the huge pile of turd
Mar 4, 2014 11:49 PM
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Feb 2014
2
Profess0r1011000 said:
omg this is one epic episode. the drama is lovely and the feelings are so pure. love it. just love it!

this is the song played during Mugen's dream scene. it ended up in my playlist hehe

Obokuri-Ee Umi by japanese folk singer Ikue Asazaki


Really? i couldnt stand the music that played during that i actually muted it until it was over
Mar 24, 2014 11:54 PM

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Jun 2011
148
Vengeance and karma by death... so much dying x.x /shot

Still I can appreciate the amount of artistry and beauty I saw in this specific episode. Glad Mugen didn't die. And Jin slayed Mukuro so impeccably. Never bring a gun to a knife-fight ;P I refuse to call Koza a bitch or whore or anything of the sort. She's a victim of the world she lives in, but she also made some pretty bad decisions along the way. You reap what you sow.
Apr 1, 2014 5:58 AM

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Jan 2014
14
This episode was the best so far. The last scene was so powerful.
Apr 15, 2014 9:37 PM
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Mar 2014
2
HiChewGaSuki said:
I refuse to call Koza a bitch or whore or anything of the sort. She's a victim of the world she lives in, but she also made some pretty bad decisions along the way. You reap what you sow.


Glad someone sees it that way. I just don't get how we see Mugen attacking innocent sailors and slicing them to pieces, and everyone talks about how awesome he is. Then we see Koza run off with the government official and the gold, and she's a lying whore who deserves death. I'm not saying either of them are saints, but I'd say that Koza's crimes are easier to forgive than Mugen's. I can't understand why she's getting all the hate.
May 15, 2014 5:08 PM
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Apr 2011
270
that song was really cool, pretty much made the episode. what genre would that be considered? enka? i'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to Japanese music
Jun 8, 2014 1:11 AM
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Jun 2014
3
I can't bring myself to call Koza a whore. I mean, who was she really with the whole time? I suppose it's possible, but I think her relationship with her brother is not that way. She's shot down by Mugen. And she's been controlled enough that her not telling Mugen her brother's treachery isn't any fault of hers. If anything it took some courage to finally make an attempt to escape that life.

As for Mugen, I honestly don't think he would have killed either of them. The official guy cracked and came at him. Mugen isn't the merciful type. During the ending drum roll I questioned at first if he'd kill her, but he had no ill will towards her (other than possibly depriving him of the privelage of killing her brother). He could have killed the girl to take her out of her misery, but once again, he isn't the merciful type.

I like this anime for the same reason I liked Cowboy Bebop. It's just people trying to get by in their world the best they can, or at least in the way they know how. That's all Kazu was guilty of. What a crime.
Jul 16, 2014 11:33 PM

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Dec 2012
9
Ikuinen said:
personally i think its horrible of people here to be caling her a whore and saying she deserves what she got. Your lack of empathy and understanding about people who've lived such lives is terrible. you remind me of the scene in M.M. Yuusha "you've never experienced starvation, have you"

All her life she's been controlled and under the thumb of her brother.

WHAT choice does she have when she helpless and the only people around her are horrible people or people who she cant depend upon. She tries to reach out to mugen but he just pushes her away.

She didnt betray him, that was her brother, and i dont think you guys give enough credit to someone from her time who's entire life has consisted of being controlled by a domineering monster like her brother was or Shiren. The only life she's known is being pulled around by others. You think a girl growing up in hell like that is easy? that she was abused and raped all over the place till nothing was left of her? That theres no justification for her being broken like she was? People like her are UNABLE to betray those who dominate them because its the only life they've known, filled with fear and pain.

How did she know that Mugen would be any different from 100% of all the other horrible men she's only ever known? when your life has been hell and everyone has been terrible there is no WAY you would ever imagine theres someone you can trust or that such a thing exists, because you have 0 experience to fall back on but 100% experience on everyone being scum.

Despite her circumstances, she TRIED to get away from Mugen and he shot her down. That in itself in her circumstances and life was amazing.

she took the only path mugen left her then.

She was a victim and tool, unable to escape her life but just switch from one master to another, all other paths just being even worse pain and death. How in a life thats hell was she ever supposed to have the character development where she would be strong enough to escape or tell mugen or not be dependant on others?

The msot she ever did was follow shirens plan to get her brother killed. which was just great, Jin would have done that ANYWAY.



but hey, we never had any Illusions what Mugen is.

What other choices did she have?! what could she have done?! tell mugen who doesnt give a shit so he'd kill all those men and leave her anyway?

a woman is a whore for moving on after men reject them or trying to escape a LIFE TIME of abuse and domination?

Him crawling his way straight to them somehow was bull by the way. Just as much as the plot convenience of not telling her anything till they got killed, like the captain in red vs blue who talked really slow till he got shot.

this is the difference between Jin. Mugen rejects you and then comes back to fuck up your life...just cause.

infact its rather intersting the huge constrast between them. Personalities, life events, colors, manner, looks. Jin meets a wholesome mature older woman and falls in love with her the first time and saves her from a terrible life to something better. Mugen has a young childhood friend who's broken and had a terrible life, mixed with betrayal and death, ending in him making her life even worse somehow.


Yo I have nothing to add to this but I wholly agree. Thanks for typing this up.
Aug 8, 2014 5:57 PM

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Jun 2012
3948
Well I'm not sure how Koza became one of the three survivors, I guess she always just stood by on the side.

Aug 14, 2014 6:22 AM

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Nov 2013
3813
God damn, the use of sound was amazing this episode. This and episode 11 are my favourite so far. I really love the episodes that have a serious tone.
the official MAL hall of fame/cursed comments is now open for business - you are welcome to PM me any potential quotes to include
Aug 24, 2014 12:57 AM

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Feb 2014
425
Holy shit you people are fucking children for thinking that Koza is a villain or a whore or whatever. Ikuinen's post sums it up very nicely - she IS NOT an antagonist. She's a victim of circumstance, like pretty much everyone else in this show. She lived a shit life and she tried to escape it when she found an opportunity. Don't even fucking pretend that any of you would've done any differently (actually, most of us would've just killed ourselves by then).

Mugen's actions are understandable as well, but I hate how people become so easily blinded by the protagonist's POV. There are no bad guys (or girls) here, outside of Mukuro.

This was a great episode; I wish I hadn't read this thread, though, because the first few pages were pure and unadulterated cancer. Little kids calling a three-dimensional character with genuine motivations an evil whore because she tried to escape her shitty living situation...well, it is an anime site, after all.
Dec 29, 2014 3:20 PM

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Jun 2014
14630
I'm curious, how did Mugen live that jump? He jumped into the ocean hands bounds, into shark waters, with the executors shooting from above.

Jan 14, 2015 5:04 AM

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Dec 2013
3405
The song played when Mugen was sinking was amazing.
Wow, this episode.
AizixJan 16, 2015 12:13 PM
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