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| I HAVE NO MONEY!! LOL best part Really enjoyed this episode too and after 3 episodes I shall not be dropping this awesome anime :D |
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Post-Josh said: parfaited said: Racist bitty logic? I see it more as her thinking the man wants money because he fixed her bicycle chain. Who offers to fix a a bicycle chain and then wants money? draker said: You're taking it too seriously. Classic internet guy argument. Shows that are just for fun don't get a free pass, positive language makes positive changes. It's not cool when shows have blatant gay stereotyping either, like Chocolate or Haiyore to use two recent examples. Is there even a stereotype that large Spanish men ask girls for money? I don't think that this can be labeled racism, at least not in the familiar sense. Considering that Wakana is talking to the guy in Engrish, I don't think she's worldly enough to be racist. If anything, it's minor xenophobia (this is Japan, after all, not the US or Canada) combined with the fact that it's a large, scary man who keeps trying to stop her / follow her / touch her. Which is understandable, in my opinion. And the money thing is also understandable - what would a random stranger want from her, regardless of nationality? And if it's a foreign random stranger, it's not like they could have a nice chat, right? As for the "gay stereotyping," I don't think it's that bad. In anime, I'm more bothered by "straight stereotyping" - how many normal, straight guys are there as protagonists? The vast majority are perverts, accidental or otherwise. If they aren't perverts, then they're completely oblivious. I think what's going on here is that these are anime tropes and not meant to represent anything other than... anime. |
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| 'I can'to understando' lol that's hilarious |
AlexGK said: Eh, but it has the teachers, the Spanish guys, and less prominent the guys from the beach and shrines. And of course the other students, but they don't really could be called characters.Ovindel said: TheAnaBanana said: I haven't shipped anything in this show actually. I don't think and want this show to turn romance.Am I the only one who ships Konatsu and Taichi? I dont think it will turn romance either, but some sparkles are definitely needed. That said, its way too early to ship anything. The show badly needs support characters as well, else I feel it will soon get boring. Hikarusuke said: I HAVE NO MONEY!! LOL best part Really enjoyed this episode too and after 3 episodes I shall not be dropping this awesome anime :D FlashIzangi said: I think she said "ai donto monee" though.'I can'to understando' lol that's hilarious |
Ovindel said: I think she said "ai donto monee" though. Now, only if someone would make that as a gif ... |
 Toshino Kyoko!!! |
ataraxial said: Is there even a stereotype that large Spanish men ask girls for money? I don't think that this can be labeled racism, at least not in the familiar sense. Considering that Wakana is talking to the guy in Engrish, I don't think she's worldly enough to be racist. If anything, it's minor xenophobia (this is Japan, after all, not the US or Canada) combined with the fact that it's a large, scary man who keeps trying to stop her / follow her / touch her. Which is understandable, in my opinion. And the money thing is also understandable - what would a random stranger want from her, regardless of nationality? And if it's a foreign random stranger, it's not like they could have a nice chat, right? It's not a specific stereotype (although you could argue it vaguely follows the darker skin = poorer stereotype), it's just run-of-the-mill racism. She's assuming that he's asking for money based on his ethnical appearance. I'm willing to bet she wouldn't have said that (and no one would have found it funny) had the other person been American, or French, etc. Also, xenophobia is racism and worldly exposure has nothing to do with it. It may be more excusable and understandable if people without exposure and education are racist, but racism is racism no matter who it comes from. (Of those who are of a privileged race in their location, don't want to get too deep into it.) Sort of aside: The replacement test is usually a good place to start for discrimination in comedy/comedic scenes. Would it have been funny if the person was a different race? If the answer is no, it's probably racism (with exceptions). ataraxial said: As for the "gay stereotyping," I don't think it's that bad. In anime, I'm more bothered by "straight stereotyping" - how many normal, straight guys are there as protagonists? The vast majority are perverts, accidental or otherwise. If they aren't perverts, then they're completely oblivious. I think what's going on here is that these are anime tropes and not meant to represent anything other than... anime. I can think of plenty of shows that have non-perverted straight male characters. Even just in the last episode of Tari Tari (the sister scene), to pick something I know we've both seen recently. Now, I've only watched maybe 3-4 shows with gay male characters, but they were all like "omg I love dick and am feminine lol", and it was really irritating. Entertainment always reflects culture, regardless of it's intentions. It's a big reason why a lot of people subconsciously uphold many stereotypes/prejudices. Someone's probably going to tell me I'm taking this too seriously, but that's expected when you talk about things like this lol. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
Post-Josh said: Omniknight said: The Italian guy was pretty funny too. He was speaking Spanish, but I can see how he looks sort of Italian. I think he looks Mexican, but I'm assuming he's going to be Spanish. Not that it really matters, haha. My mistake. I don't have much exposure to either language! =D "I... no money" O Wakana... that Engrish... |
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Post-Josh said: It's not a specific stereotype (although you could argue it vaguely follows the darker skin = poorer stereotype), it's just run-of-the-mill racism. She's assuming that he's asking for money based on his ethnical appearance. I'm willing to bet she wouldn't have said that (and no one would have found it funny) had the other person been American, or French, etc. Also, xenophobia is racism and worldly exposure has nothing to do with it. It may be more excusable and understandable if people without exposure and education are racist, but racism is racism no matter who it comes from. (Of those who are of a privileged race in their location, don't want to get too deep into it.) Sort of aside: The replacement test is usually a good place to start for discrimination in comedy/comedic scenes. Would it have been funny if the person was a different race? If the answer is no, it's probably racism (with exceptions). It passes the replacement test - as long as you use someone who could potentially seem intimidating and doesn't speak Japanese. The Engrish is a bit tricky though, since it means that the joke wouldn't work as well for Americans or anyone else who does actually speak English, but an American-looking guy would've been able to fulfill the same role as long as he was similarly built. The important aspect of his appearance would be how intimidating he looked, and not what skin tone he had. The mild xenophobia of being scared of someone who is clearly foreign and is also large and well-built might be racism, but that's not really enough to warrant much complaint. Sure, racism is bad in general, but in countries with a homogeous ethnic composition like Japan, that level of emotional response is normal and mostly harmless, if not necessarily "right." More importantly, simply portraying it in entertainment can hardly be considered a crime - if anything it's actually helpful since it allows for discussions such as the one we are currently having. Post-Josh said: I can think of plenty of shows that have non-perverted straight male characters. Even just in the last episode of Tari Tari (the sister scene), to pick something I know we've both seen recently. Now, I've only watched maybe 3-4 shows with gay male characters, but they were all like "omg I love dick and am feminine lol", and it was really irritating. Entertainment always reflects culture, regardless of it's intentions. It's a big reason why a lot of people subconsciously uphold many stereotypes/prejudices. Someone's probably going to tell me I'm taking this too seriously, but that's expected when you talk about things like this lol. All I meant to say about straight male characters was that there are a couple tropes which are re-used over and over, like the over-the-top pervert or the oblivious harem-owner. Yet nobody is complaining about how terrible these "stereotypes" are; rather, they just say that it gets annoying to see the same character types over and over. For gay male characters in anime, the difference is in degree, not in kind. There are a couple tropes for gay or feminine male characters which are kind of annoying, and they are slightly more noticeable than the ones for straight characters. But I don't see anything fundamentally different about the application of tropes for each sexual orientation. Also, sample size. 3-4 data points is hardly enough to conclude anything about anything. |
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ataraxial said: It passes the replacement test - as long as you use someone who could potentially seem intimidating and doesn't speak Japanese. The Engrish is a bit tricky though, since it means that the joke wouldn't work as well for Americans or anyone else who does actually speak English, but an American-looking guy would've been able to fulfill the same role as long as he was similarly built. The important aspect of his appearance would be how intimidating he looked, and not what skin tone he had. We shall agree to disagree on this one. ataraxial said: More importantly, simply portraying it in entertainment can hardly be considered a crime - if anything it's actually helpful since it allows for discussions such as the one we are currently having. We talk about it because we have to, but we shouldn't actually want to. The goal is to not have to talk about it, because that means it's "fixed", or at least better. ataraxial said: All I meant to say about straight male characters was that there are a couple tropes which are re-used over and over, like the over-the-top pervert or the oblivious harem-owner. Yet nobody is complaining about how terrible these "stereotypes" are; rather, they just say that it gets annoying to see the same character types over and over. For gay male characters in anime, the difference is in degree, not in kind. There are a couple tropes for gay or feminine male characters which are kind of annoying, and they are slightly more noticeable than the ones for straight characters. But I don't see anything fundamentally different about the application of tropes for each sexual orientation. Also, sample size. 3-4 data points is hardly enough to conclude anything about anything. I agree that my anime sample size is too small, but I think it's safe to assume anime is similar in this regard to live action, which has a terrible reputation for it's portrayal of homosexuality. There is a fundamental difference, because the uneven distribution of power is what causes discrimination to have any importance. It's not nearly as big of a deal to make fun of straight people, because straight is still the default sexuality. If a viewer sees a perverted straight character for instance, their subconscious can very easily understand that this is not how all straight people are, because more than likely the viewer is straight themselves, or at the very least they personally know many straight people who aren't like that. On the other hand, the average person's subconscious has a much more difficult time understanding that how gay people act in entertainment is not how all gay people actually act, because more than likely they are not gay themselves, or they have not had sufficient exposure to gay people. This is why it does not go both ways, so to speak, and it is more serious to mock the group with lessor power. It works similarly with race; under a stricter definition of racism, black people can not actually be racist. They can be prejudice, but racism implies social authority, which black people do not have. Sorry if that's annoyingly long, lol. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| Line of This Week"I am no Money",lol. |
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| This show's great, nice episode and I really like what they're doing with the endings; it's just lovely |
| A Spanish dude and a pig, now is this awesome or what, I laughed so hard. Sawa has those big boobs but damn, she was hot in that bikini. Someone needs to slap that bitch of a vice principal, god, I hate her. The cake was not a lie! |
Zhou said: This is all so true, especially Sawa.A Spanish dude and a pig, now is this awesome or what, I laughed so hard. Sawa has those big boobs but damn, she was hot in that bikini. Someone needs to slap that bitch of a vice principal, god, I hate her. The cake was not a lie! |
| Lol, can't believe I read these 6 pages. |
| very nice episode! and banzai from random french dude! |
| I heard a mix between Catalan and Castilian Spanish for some reason but Wakana's Engrish was hilarious. Hell, Engrish in general is hilarious. |
Post-Josh said: ataraxial said: It passes the replacement test - as long as you use someone who could potentially seem intimidating and doesn't speak Japanese. The Engrish is a bit tricky though, since it means that the joke wouldn't work as well for Americans or anyone else who does actually speak English, but an American-looking guy would've been able to fulfill the same role as long as he was similarly built. The important aspect of his appearance would be how intimidating he looked, and not what skin tone he had. We shall agree to disagree on this one. ataraxial said: More importantly, simply portraying it in entertainment can hardly be considered a crime - if anything it's actually helpful since it allows for discussions such as the one we are currently having. We talk about it because we have to, but we shouldn't actually want to. The goal is to not have to talk about it, because that means it's "fixed", or at least better. ataraxial said: All I meant to say about straight male characters was that there are a couple tropes which are re-used over and over, like the over-the-top pervert or the oblivious harem-owner. Yet nobody is complaining about how terrible these "stereotypes" are; rather, they just say that it gets annoying to see the same character types over and over. For gay male characters in anime, the difference is in degree, not in kind. There are a couple tropes for gay or feminine male characters which are kind of annoying, and they are slightly more noticeable than the ones for straight characters. But I don't see anything fundamentally different about the application of tropes for each sexual orientation. Also, sample size. 3-4 data points is hardly enough to conclude anything about anything. I agree that my anime sample size is too small, but I think it's safe to assume anime is similar in this regard to live action, which has a terrible reputation for it's portrayal of homosexuality. There is a fundamental difference, because the uneven distribution of power is what causes discrimination to have any importance. It's not nearly as big of a deal to make fun of straight people, because straight is still the default sexuality. If a viewer sees a perverted straight character for instance, their subconscious can very easily understand that this is not how all straight people are, because more than likely the viewer is straight themselves, or at the very least they personally know many straight people who aren't like that. On the other hand, the average person's subconscious has a much more difficult time understanding that how gay people act in entertainment is not how all gay people actually act, because more than likely they are not gay themselves, or they have not had sufficient exposure to gay people. This is why it does not go both ways, so to speak, and it is more serious to mock the group with lessor power. It works similarly with race; under a stricter definition of racism, black people can not actually be racist. They can be prejudice, but racism implies social authority, which black people do not have. Sorry if that's annoyingly long, lol. So. Much. Quoting. Let's see if numbers can make things easier. 1. That's kind of the crux of the issue though. You think that the guy has to be dark-skinned for the joke to work. I don't. If the joke doesn't truly rely on the guy's skin pigmentation, then it isn't racism. The joke relies more on the fact that Wakana's response is a non sequitur for us - we know that he isn't asking for money and that what she's saying doesn't make sense. I'm not even sure that she really thinks he's asking for money so much as that "I am no money" is the only response she manages to come up with because her English skills are so poor. 2. The thing is that you can't blame the studio or whomever for portraying racism even if they did (which I don't think they did in the first place), unless they support the racist assumptions. If there is a racist character in a TV show, the character might be racist, but as long as the show handles it in a correct fashion (say, by allowing the large Spanish guy to be perfectly harmless and have nice clothes to boot), then they have done nothing wrong. NaN. I personally find the Engrish to be more of an issue than the "kind-of-assume-the-foreign-stranger-to-be-asking-for-money" situation. It undeniably fails the replacement test for one - Engrish is only funny given that the character is Japanese or some other form of East Asian. 3. I am personally not a expert in Film/Gender/Race Studies, but as for the last statement, I don't see how that's relevant. Strict racism might be more of a visible issue, but prejudice is the fundamental driving force, and that's ultimately what matters. So what if black people can't be racist under the strict definition? If they're "prejudiced," that's still a problem. I disagree about how the audience will have a skewed idea of homosexual people's default behavior based on anime. It's important to think about the intended audience first. Japan seems to be considerably more open and accepting of homosexuality in general - and the intended Japanese audience is familiar with these common tropes as being just tropes. When there's an super-feminine male character in anime, the intended audience won't think that all gay people are like that - rather, they simply identify it as a sub-type of gay people - the fictionalized, unrealistic, ultra-feminine version. |
ataraxialJul 19, 2012 9:09 AM
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| "I DON'T MONEY!" I loled |
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| Sakai should stop being so distant. She's gonna cave and enjoy the club eventually. I'm liking this show a lot. Konatsu is love. |
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razisgosu said: Sakai should stop being so distant. She's gonna cave and enjoy the club eventually. I'm liking this show a lot. Konatsu is love. I really hope she will soon. (BTW, your avatar of Sawa and Konatsu is awesome :3) |
Toshino Kyoko!!! |
razisgosu said: Sakai should stop being so distant. She's gonna cave and enjoy the club eventually. I'm liking this show a lot. Konatsu is love. Wakana being tsundere is so cute though! |
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| Omg the foreigner talked in proper spanish!! *0* and Sakai and her bad engrish lol This is getting pretty interesting!! I heard Sawa at the preview saying she's gonna quit the club D: I hope she doesn't, I want to hear Takagaki Ayahi-san singing! |
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| Great episode, this is getting really interesting especially with the foreigner. The ED changed, I guess the final girl will permanently join them soon. |
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page. |
ataraxial said: I disagree about how the audience will have a skewed idea of homosexual people's default behavior based on anime. It's important to think about the intended audience first. Japan seems to be considerably more open and accepting of homosexuality in general - and the intended Japanese audience is familiar with these common tropes as being just tropes. When there's an super-feminine male character in anime, the intended audience won't think that all gay people are like that - rather, they simply identify it as a sub-type of gay people - the fictionalized, unrealistic, ultra-feminine version. Basically agree to disagree on everything prior to this, but this point is a much stronger disagree. The brain isn't capable of completely differentiating between fiction and reality like that. I'm not saying if you watch one show all the incorrect views will suddenly be set-in-stone, but a trope is never just a trope. Even people who are completely and positively aware of how they work, like actual professionals in relevant fields of study, still can't completely control what their minds take in and make use of. The part of your brain that makes instant decisions, such as the initial judgement of a person, is based strongly upon past experiences and not logic. It will use any and all of your fictionalized experiences, which is basically where the "it's never just for fun" attitude, which I hold, comes from. I'm not trying to be over-critical for the sake of being over-critical, at least. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
Post-Josh said: Basically agree to disagree on everything prior to this, but this point is a much stronger disagree. The brain isn't capable of completely differentiating between fiction and reality like that. I'm not saying if you watch one show all the incorrect views will suddenly be set-in-stone, but a trope is never just a trope. Even people who are completely and positively aware of how they work, like actual professionals in relevant fields of study, still can't completely control what their minds take in and make use of. The part of your brain that makes instant decisions, such as the initial judgement of a person, is based strongly upon past experiences and not logic. It will use any and all of your fictionalized experiences, which is basically where the "it's never just for fun" attitude, which I hold, comes from. I'm not trying to be over-critical for the sake of being over-critical, at least. I agree about the subconscious influence of biases. It's impossible to distance yourself from what you've experienced even if you know that to be influenced by it is an unfortunate case of hasty generalization + confirmation bias. Still, I believe that the intended Japanese audience has enough exposure in general that they are able to appreciate gay character tropes in anime in basically the same fashion as they appreciate straight character tropes. Agree to disagree? |
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| Yeah, for sure. No hard feelings! |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
Post-Josh said: Yeah, for sure. No hard feelings! But of course. |
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| Looking at the pig makes me think of bacon. hurhur >;P |
Ovindel said: Oooh nice catches, I had completely forgotten about the cakes tbh. And yeah I love the way this anime includes many minor details that makes the whole thing better.sikandsak said: Oh wait, aren't those Spanish guy in the OP?! I just found this screenshot from Yumekichi11 in EP1 and noticed it (in spoiler): So, seems like the band's name is "Condor Queen's"? Seems like they're well-known band as well, since Konatsu has their poster! sikandsak said: Oh lol, I really like these kind of details that many (like me) will miss but make the show complete.By the way, did someone else also notice that ... the bribe has been paid?! (in the spoiler) This episode was pretty funny lol, there were so many scenes where I just couldn't help but laugh. Those meetings with Wakana and that Spanish dude were great rofl, "I don'to monai". Can't wait to see more of that next episode. Haha Konatu's brother threw his porn away for no reason. And lol Wien is just made for funny moments. For some reason I just love the way that this anime starts off with a childhood moment every episode. Its really sweet to see and sorta heartwarming tbh. Also the way they change up the ED is great. Sawa looks great in that swimsuit and Konatsu looks pretty good too. |
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| Very good episode! I enjoyed it! :D I've got a feeling that that spanish guy has something to tell, maybe he knows Sakai's mother? |
| Another great Episode. Wien exiting Taichi's room was hilarious |
| Each episode makes me like this even more. Whats with that Italian guy with the pet pig? To see my full review of this episode go here: http://animeordie.blogspot.com/2012/07/tari-tari-313.html |
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sikandsak said: By the way, did someone else also notice that ... the bribe has been paid?! (in the spoiler) I noticed the "cake payment, but I hadn't picked up on the Good catch! I love attention to detail, and PA Works is excellent at details, that for sure! JerichoxBarrons said: Each episode makes me like this even more. Whats with that Italian guy with the pet pig? To see my full review of this episode go here: http://animeordie.blogspot.com/2012/07/tari-tari-313.html He was Spanish (or at least that was the language he was speaking.) |
zensunniJul 24, 2012 2:59 PM
Now blogging at TheZenOf Mysterious Girlfriend X Anime Fan Club - It's about more than drool! Tari Tari Fan Club - Hyouka Fan Club - Chitanda Eru Fans Club~ |
| This is fun. I only watched the first episode and then put it on the backburner as the pieces didn't fit together for me. But now that I'm sitting around with nothing to watch, I thought I'd catch up. Still not sure what the story is about, but I'm enjoying how all the threads are being woven together. I'm looking forward to the next two episodes which I'm about to watch. |
KMM said: Actually, it's not Spanish. It's Romanian :) Que? I hope that was a joke amigo! |
Now blogging at TheZenOf Mysterious Girlfriend X Anime Fan Club - It's about more than drool! Tari Tari Fan Club - Hyouka Fan Club - Chitanda Eru Fans Club~ |
| O.o mexicans on anime. LOL. But, why does they describes them with pigs as a pet? |
| Lol that spanish guy was funny along with wakana saying she has no money.. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
| Good episode! |
- | My Profile| My List | Scorching Ping Pong Girls Review | YT Channel | - |
| The brother got burned!~ "i am no money" hah good episode! |
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| What the hell with the guy chasing Sakai. He's awesome ! |
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| "I don't money!" - Wakana :D Loving this anime, makes me really happy. |
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| good episode! lol at the spanish guy chasing Satai |
| Finally some kind of real fanservice, not just Konatsu's brother :D It makes me wonder though... why do a lot of main girls have to be flat-chested? It's not a big problem or anything it's just weird :/ She is still beautiful though. Wakana's english was pretty funny :) |
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| Overall great episode with many laughs and a meaningful ending sequence. |
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| not enough boobies /10 |
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| Certainly not bad. Nice comedy moments |
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