| Ahh, that ending sounds horrible! Glad I ended up dropping the series. |
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| Awesome spoiler is awesome but..actually I found it to be a great and memorable ending. It was done better in the Visual Novel, though. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| This is what happens when they fail to tell you important details. Saber made a contract with the world to become a heroic spirit in exchange for the Holy Grail. That means that she's actually NOT a heroic spirit yet and she is stuck at the time of her death until she can obtain the Holy Grail. Whenever she fails at getting the Holy Grail she gets sent back to the moment of death and time freezes for her again. The ending is a little ambiguous as to whether she's still stuck in the cycle or not but one can assume she gave up her objective of obtaining the Holy Grail, and that allowed her to move forward again and die peacefully. So basically, Saber accepts she can't change the past and finally dies just like the Arthur legend says. The matter of whether or not she stills has to become a Heroic Spirit is iffy, although the legend of King Arthur is popular enough to qualify as such. Anyway, don't hate the ending guys. Saber was never from the future anyway. She always knew she had to return and die just like the legend says. Better to see them respecting popular legends than making some half-assed excuse for Saber staying in the current era. |
Leon-GunJun 6, 2011 2:22 AM
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Johanne012 said: "if want to meet as normal people, one must wait patiently and the other must struggle all the way" the guy who made this thing likes this and doesn't hate this if he hated this he wouldn't have created this "TITLE" so if you create your own story you would put a happy ending story hidden and the one who realizes it is a genius and has wisdom in their hearts... if you discovered what is hidden the conversation and the whole story you'll probably be satisfied with the ending I don't understand what you're trying to say...mind rewording that? |
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OneTail said: Johanne012 said: "if want to meet as normal people, one must wait patiently and the other must struggle all the way" the guy who made this thing likes this and doesn't hate this if he hated this he wouldn't have created this "TITLE" so if you create your own story you would put a happy ending story hidden and the one who realizes it is a genius and has wisdom in their hearts... if you discovered what is hidden the conversation and the whole story you'll probably be satisfied with the ending I don't understand what you're trying to say...mind rewording that? Just read Leon-Gun's post. That's pretty much how it goes. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3soldiern said: Also, the quote he's talking about, that's some obnoxious addition to Realta Nua that was meant to give people a slight hope. But the Fate epilogue pretty much destroys it because Shirou says quite clearly that he accepted her fate and he'll treasure the memories. If anything, the most fans can hope for is that Saber never became a Heroic Spirit , therefore remaining in the cycle of reincarnstion, and he meets Arturia's current reincarnation. But he'll never meet Arturia herself again.OneTail said: Johanne012 said: "if want to meet as normal people, one must wait patiently and the other must struggle all the way" the guy who made this thing likes this and doesn't hate this if he hated this he wouldn't have created this "TITLE" so if you create your own story you would put a happy ending story hidden and the one who realizes it is a genius and has wisdom in their hearts... if you discovered what is hidden the conversation and the whole story you'll probably be satisfied with the ending I don't understand what you're trying to say...mind rewording that? Just read Leon-Gun's post. That's pretty much how it goes. Type-Moon and Nasu himself don't shy away from bleak endings. See Tsukihime's endings, especially the Far Side of the Moon ones, for examples of how dark and hopeless Nasu's stories and resolutions can be. |
Leon-GunJul 5, 2011 7:21 PM
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| The ending really isn't confusing, I was able to figure it out even having not read the visual novel at the time. If anything the fact the ending wasn't changed is a redeeming quality of the anime. |
Leon-Gun said: That explanation helps a lot, now I get it.This is what happens when they fail to tell you important details. Saber made a contract with the world to become a heroic spirit in exchange for the Holy Grail. That means that she's actually NOT a heroic spirit yet and she is stuck at the time of her death until she can obtain the Holy Grail. Whenever she fails at getting the Holy Grail she gets sent back to the moment of death and time freezes for her again. The ending is a little ambiguous as to whether she's still stuck in the cycle or not but one can assume she gave up her objective of obtaining the Holy Grail, and that allowed her to move forward again and die peacefully. So basically, Saber accepts she can't change the past and finally dies just like the Arthur legend says. The matter of whether or not she stills has to become a Heroic Spirit is iffy, although the legend of King Arthur is popular enough to qualify as such. Anyway, don't hate the ending guys. Saber was never from the future anyway. She always knew she had to return and die just like the legend says. Better to see them respecting popular legends than making some half-assed excuse for Saber staying in the current era. |
Apologies, I just can't avoid to rant. |
K-Shuun said: Leon-Gun said: That explanation helps a lot, now I get it.This is what happens when they fail to tell you important details. Saber made a contract with the world to become a heroic spirit in exchange for the Holy Grail. That means that she's actually NOT a heroic spirit yet and she is stuck at the time of her death until she can obtain the Holy Grail. Whenever she fails at getting the Holy Grail she gets sent back to the moment of death and time freezes for her again. The ending is a little ambiguous as to whether she's still stuck in the cycle or not but one can assume she gave up her objective of obtaining the Holy Grail, and that allowed her to move forward again and die peacefully. So basically, Saber accepts she can't change the past and finally dies just like the Arthur legend says. The matter of whether or not she stills has to become a Heroic Spirit is iffy, although the legend of King Arthur is popular enough to qualify as such. Anyway, don't hate the ending guys. Saber was never from the future anyway. She always knew she had to return and die just like the legend says. Better to see them respecting popular legends than making some half-assed excuse for Saber staying in the current era. Well the "finally dies" part isnt exactly right since she goes to Avalon but anyway. |
| I didn't really enjoy the ending |
Frostphoenix said: I don't really see the ending as the end, to be honest. Shiro basically said that he would find a way to be with her again, and we don't know that Arturia actually died. In fact, in the Legend of King Arthur, he doesn't die. He is carried to Avalon to heal- for hundreds of years, which is supported by her line "I believe I shall sleep for a very long time." Prophecy states that he will return one day, which is why he is called 'The Once and Future King.' Therefore, for these and reasons that others have stated, I view the ending as only the beginning of yet another quest. Shiro will no doubt spend years searching for an answer, and when he finally succeeds, it will be in awakening Saber from her long sleep. That is my interpretation, but regardless, the ambiguity of the ending is brilliant. There's no ambiguity Saber does go to Avalon the promised land ONLY King Arthur can go to, to await for the day her country needs her once more.That's death. He DOES die in the legend, but is said to be promised to come back (hence once and future king). Arthur's Legend is essentially a medieval version of Jesus Shirou would not search for a way to find Saber or reach saber as it would go against him not having regrets. So Shirou will live off his life with no regrets following the ideal he wanted. It is logically impossible within the laws of Nasuerse for him to see her again |
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mrdl2010 said: This is the most disappointing ending I have ever seen in any anime. A mediocre high-school master defeated one in two best masters who had 10 years to plan for this incident in a 1 vs 1 situation. Saber with an tremendous amount of wounds defeated King of Heroes in a 1 vs 1 situation. The series is a disappointment but this ending even sucks more. the so called "mediocre" high-school master has a body made of swords is very good at close combat and surprised Kirei by surviving something that is impossible to survive AND appearing litteraly a step near him. Shirou and Rin and Wounds don't matter too much. Saber spent the whole story walking with a literal hole in the stomach. As long as they have prana supporting them, servants can function with non-lethal wounds( |
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mrdl2010 said: Fai said: mrdl2010 said: This is the most disappointing ending I have ever seen in any anime. A mediocre high-school master defeated one in two best masters who had 10 years to plan for this incident in a 1 vs 1 situation. Saber with an tremendous amount of wounds defeated King of Heroes in a 1 vs 1 situation. The series is a disappointment but this ending even sucks more. the so called "mediocre" high-school master has a body made of swords is very good at close combat and surprised Kirei by surviving something that is impossible to survive AND appearing litteraly a step near him. Shirou and Rin and Wounds don't matter too much. Saber spent the whole story walking with a literal hole in the stomach. As long as they have prana supporting them, servants can function with non-lethal wounds( Thanks for your reply. Firstly, Kirei knew about the son of the one who defeated him for 10 years and did not do anything to research about him? He is supposed to be careful/ smart and brutal. Secondly, no matter what made his body, he is still mediocre. He is below low level master. Hell yeah, some days before he was not able to do anything except running and then suddenly he has an extraordinary spell which can surprised and defeated one of the best combatant master who can fight at the same level with someone mastering time manipulation? Is this Bleach or Fairy tail bull**** cliche? wounds definitely matters to servant. When saber was stabbed by lancer, she is not able to use her ultimate sword to kill caster(in zero). There are also a lot of examples when masters or servants with wounds can not utilizing their power perfectly. Wound needs to be healed totally first before servant can use power at highest level. And this is also one more bull**** cliche when the hero is defeated with tremendous amount of wounds, stand up and use the same attack some minutes ago which had no affects whatsoever and win. Let alone why the hell the King did not use thousands of weapons at range instead of one sword at mele to give saber the chance to win. In conclusion, this series sucks and the ending is even worse. Kirei had already done research on Kiritsugu 10 years ago.He knew that there wasnt a son in the family aka that Shirou is someone Kiritsugu(the Kiritsugu Kirei saw to be soulless after the 4th war) adopted.Even if he did any reasearch the only thing he would find is that he can trace swords.Projection isnt what other magi call great power.It only works for Shirou and Archer because of their Origin,which is "sword" after living with Avalon so long inside them and because of their suicidal and dumb training. That spell isnt his own.It just activates the blast from the dagger,something Rin told him to do.It has nothing to do with his abilities or level.And Kirei cant use his usual powers while controlling the mud, a curse that can kill or darken Servants. Except that that wound had a special curse on it that wont let it heal.Totally different from a simple wound, be that a cut or having a hole in your lungs. I dont know if you noticed in FZ but Avalon heals the wielder, in this case Saber,so what wounds?The attack was also differently executed.The first time her blast collided with Enuma Elish and was defeated.The second time it was an attack to the user by using all of her power after being fully healed. Because Gilgamesh cant keep using Ea and spam swords from Gate of Babylon at the same time, one of the reasons being Ea's attack being powered by his treasures as well. The only bullshit there is the those anime scenes is Shirou being meters away from Kirei and Saber deflecting Enuma Elish by using a combination of Avalon and Excalibur. |
mrdl2010 said: Thanks for your reply. Firstly, Kirei knew about the son of the one who defeated him for 10 years and did not do anything to research about him? He is supposed to be careful/ smart and brutal. No one bothered to research anything about Kerry in the first war either. Shirou is mostly unnoticeable - he does not stand out, he does not have an actual ego, he does not accomplish anything till this point in his life that would make Kirei notice him. The only reason Kirei even pays attention to him is because of who his "father" was and because both Shirou and Kirei are "void" in same ways. Kirei KNOWS that you can't survive the mud, unless you are Gilgamesh(who has so much self due to his ego that even grail facepalms and gives up trying). A complete average who does not have any noticeable magical feats surviving it is not something anyone would account for, but then again same argument goes for Kerry too who was average as magus in all ways except two hax things he had in his arsenal. Secondly, no matter what made his body, he is still mediocre. He is below low level master. Except for the fact that his body is able to tank a whole lot of shit, he can fight a trained assassin like Kuzuki almost evenly and has a mind that is more akin to a computer than human brain? The main aspect Shirou sucks at is prana output and experience. Just like Kerry he has a few haxx things that make him surprise his opponents and that's it. EVERYONE would underestimate him because he is good at projection. That's like a shit-level magic. If a normal magecraft is Salvador Dali, the projection user is 4 year old with crayons. The difference being that Shirou has an unique situation in which projection is made VERY dangerous. Shirou has origin of Sword(as opposed to Kerry's Severing and Binding), which makes his body that of swords(hence defense) and his mind that of swords(hence his powers). Thank Avalon being in his body and his mind as a void for that. And the fact that any of Shirou's "training" sessions could essentially killed him on the spot if he fails. Put two and two together? You have a very deadly kind of projection magic. Rin describes it as Hell yeah, some days before he was not able to do anything except running and then suddenly he has an extraordinary spell which can surprised and defeated one of the best combatant master who can fight at the same level with someone mastering time manipulation? Is this Bleach or Fairy tail bull**** cliche? Thank the anime studio for cutting out half the story that actually showcases him learning and improving. Or explains his powers. If it did not struck you yet, Shirou is not exactly case of normal human. Also Kirei is way weaker at this point. Getting dead and having your heart replaced with darkness does that to you. Kerry did not exactly "master" a time manipulation - its his reality marble. And apart form being haxx it sucks and has horrible side-effects towards him. And as said Before Shirou is no normal human either. wounds definitely matters to servant. When saber was stabbed by lancer, she is not able to use her ultimate sword to kill caster(in zero). Kerry sucks as magus. Almost as much as Shirou if not more. Not enough prana = damaging wounds. Enough prana = faster healing. Also f/0 Lancer's noble phantasm causes unhealable wounds. There are also a lot of examples when masters or servants with wounds can not utilizing their power perfectly. Wound needs to be healed totally first before servant can use power at highest level. And this is also one more bull**** cliche when the hero is defeated with tremendous amount of wounds, stand up and use the same attack some minutes ago which had no affects whatsoever and win. Avalon. Avalon denies the reality of the Gaia, negating the effects of nature like death of injury. When Avalon is used, user returns to the state he was before. In Saber's case, that's returning her to 20-something year old girl in state of body she was when she gained Avalon. Hence why having lived for more than 20 decades, she still looked that young(that and she is also a dragon-kin) Let alone why the hell the King did not use thousands of weapons at range instead of one sword at mele to give saber the chance to win. Welcome to the ball of ego that is Gilgamesh. He NEVER takes anyone seriously. The only person he took seriously for a SECOND was F/0 Rider and he obliterated F/0 rider in seconds. Otherwise he views everyone as below him EA is separate NP - its his ultimate weapon that can split reality and destroy the world's truth(essentially killing Gaia and returning world to primordial state). It IS his power. Problem being that he is egoistic and prideful enough to NEVER use it to its fullest. You could say its same as F/0 Berserker's Aarondight - he can't use BOTH at once. If Gil was not an idiotic, self-obsessed prick, he could win both wars on their first days. |
AhenshihaelMar 12, 2014 1:47 PM
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mrdl2010 said: It is like a common-and-no-different shonen combined with magic. Which is why this anime adaptation fails to portray it correctly. Fate Stay Night is essentially three different realities, three different outlooks of ideals clash with reality - one representing idealism, one representing pragmatism and one representing nihilism/cynicism A lot of shonen genre focuses on idea of self and identity. Using emotions and will to overcome reality. In case of FSN, Shirou is built as antithesis of that - his "Self" has been dead for years and he just like Kirei is essentially a high-functioning sociopath, unable to feel human emotions. He is more akin to a broken robot, living solely for the ideal of the one who saved him, searching for a meaning in his existence and a way to implement the said ideal into reality that is the anti-thesis of the said ideal. Even the "People DIe When They are Killed" phrase that anime used incorrectly and people make fun of encompass that - the folk saying of "(so much will that) would not die even if killed" is not applicable(something F/Zero showcased with masters representing different ideals and still facing death despite that) - when a lethal blow is struck you are dead. There's no resolve, no sudden second gust of wind. The three versions of the world represented are the result of making the correct decisions in the correct moments(as shown by hundreds of bad ends that showcase of how easily it can go very wrong). Half of masters are students. And that does not really matter since most of them were born for this war. Sure Kuzuki is bottom-line weakling as magus(even though Caster could defeat 99% of Magi Association by herself due to being closer to true magic) and Shinji is scum of scum, but the ones affected by the events of previous war - They emphasize the pinnacle of each legacy. Rin alone could off most of F/0 masters, in some cases maybe even at once, depending on whether she has her Fate/Zero is all about characters facing the horrors they could never prepare themselves for. FSN is all about characters born from that and specifically for that. Seriously, King of arthur fell in love with a little high school boy. A boy who reminds her of her own beginning, lives by similar ideals that she founded her country upon and essentially inspires her to not regret the choices in her own life. The avalon plot recovered both shiron and saber in matter of seconds is like using deus ex machina.... Kerry survived grail and heart destruction due to that. Kirei survived BEING DEAD due to grail. Gil came out okay out of the grail's mud. Kerry's Time Alter reality marble consumes horrible amount of energy of human body(since time speeds up for the body) and survives it purely through luck and avalon each time. Oh and his Origin bullets theoretically could kill/cripple any human magus if they hit. Gil has an ufo, ancient sumerian nuclear warheads and a sword that he could kill entire world with... Iskandar has a pocket universe with a whole army. The whole nasuverse is all about outhaxx-ing the hax with your own hax, using right things against right enemies at the right moment. For it to be a deus ex machina it should come out of nowhere - however in case of this, every hax is established early on and used latter. There are also no good plot whatsoever. A war starts. Seven sorcerers of different character backgrounds gather with different intentions to attain their wishes. Trolling, conspiracies, betrayals, plotting and haxx fights ensue. Gil calls everyone mongrels, does not take it seriously, stumbles and dies to his own folly. 99% of them die, the survivors achieve a bittersweet ending. Its the same stuff as Fate/Zero. Just with more lore and more infodumping. |
AhenshihaelMar 13, 2014 7:26 AM
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mrdl2010 said: I had a very high expectation of this series after watching fate/zero and it is very disappointing. If you had asked we would have told you to stay away.I dont blame you though. Seriously, King of arthur fell in love with a little high school boy. One of my problems as well but easily solved if I dont take Arturia seriously which wasnt that hard even before she fell in love with him. |
| As shown in the actual storyline and not in this travesty, she comes to understand why he did what he did over the course of story and learns to not regret her own choices either, as well as to separate her feelings about Kerry from Shirou. But no, she does not and will never see Kerry's POV since you would have to be insane and twisted individual to adapt it. |
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| don't worry since they will meet again because Shiro will reach Avalon in the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aShk40wOGQc |
db84x said: don't worry since they will meet again because Shiro will reach Avalon in the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aShk40wOGQc fanfiction ending |
xShigarakix said: db84x said: don't worry since they will meet again because Shiro will reach Avalon in the end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aShk40wOGQc fanfiction ending It's canon tho |
Frostphoenix said: I don't really see the ending as the end, to be honest. Shiro basically said that he would find a way to be with her again, and we don't know that Arturia actually died. In fact, in the Legend of King Arthur, he doesn't die. He is carried to Avalon to heal- for hundreds of years, which is supported by her line "I believe I shall sleep for a very long time." Prophecy states that he will return one day, which is why he is called 'The Once and Future King.' Therefore, for these and reasons that others have stated, I view the ending as only the beginning of yet another quest. Shiro will no doubt spend years searching for an answer, and when he finally succeeds, it will be in awakening Saber from her long sleep. That is my interpretation, but regardless, the ambiguity of the ending is brilliant. The saddening part is the fact that they loved each other and didn't have a heart-felt goodbye. Besides, it would've been better for her to drink from the holy grail, granting her life in the present. When she died in the present, she'd just go back to where she was at the time of her death as the legends say. Win-win. |
| DIs necro... Nesano said: Besides, it would've been better for her to drink from the holy grail, granting her life in the present. When she died in the present, she'd just go back to where she was at the time of her death as the legends say. Win-win. That literally would not have worked. It would have driven her mad and most likely erased her. Also that would go counter-point to her actual character development as she would be avoiding the consequences of her actions she took in her life. Also no - if she died in the present after obtaining some point of "real" existence, she would not be sent back - after all the World is providing the means for her to obtain her wish. |
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Fai said: DIs necro... Nesano said: Besides, it would've been better for her to drink from the holy grail, granting her life in the present. When she died in the present, she'd just go back to where she was at the time of her death as the legends say. Win-win. That literally would not have worked. It would have driven her mad and most likely erased her. Also that would go counter-point to her actual character development as she would be avoiding the consequences of her actions she took in her life. Also no - if she died in the present after obtaining some point of "real" existence, she would not be sent back - after all the World is providing the means for her to obtain her wish. You're basing those three things on... what? |
Nesano said: Fai said: DIs necro... That literally would not have worked. It would have driven her mad and most likely erased her. Also that would go counter-point to her actual character development as she would be avoiding the consequences of her actions she took in her life. Also no - if she died in the present after obtaining some point of "real" existence, she would not be sent back - after all the World is providing the means for her to obtain her wish. You're basing those three things on... what? All three? Source material. Some of it is sort-of-stated in show too. The first is literally stated in the story. Only GIl is capable to withstand the corruption and degradation effects the grail has and that's because he has the biggest ego in human history. Hell, Shirou almost got dissolved and mind-raped by mere mud, only lasting the touch of it for mere miliseconds and that's Shirou we talking about, aka the guy who already built up resistance to things like that due to great fire. Drinking from the grail would either drive her insane or literally shatter her mind. The second part? Again that's the point of her characterization - she was overcome with regret of her life having been pointless because of outcome and learned to not regret her decisions in spite of outcome. That would be pointless if she avoided dealing with it altogether. Albeit that is impossible in the first place Its literally stated stated in the source material - she made a deal with the World to seek the grail to undo her reign. In return of that her mind is carried to situations in time where achieving it is possible. If she were to achieve the goal she would be bound to serve the World forever. If she were to abandon the goal she would return to her proper time to die. Giving her a real body even if it were possible( it is impossible even to sustain a soul like that without grail fueling it and grail only exists during the war), the tie the contract made would be broken and thus her dying NOW would no longer let her to actually die on that hill. Alas, as I said before, there's absolutely no way for her to actually remain in this timeline. |
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