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Apr 5, 2015 7:45 PM
Anime Relations: Fate/Zero
Kineta said:
I don't think anything worthwhile can really come out of this thread anymore, particularly when some individuals are too intent on being aggressive and mocking than on having a productive discussion.
There was valid discussion until post 210~ or so, when a certain user (JD2411) started "trolling".

The discussions worked, mockery has nothing to do with a non-productive discussion. And I saw no mockery going on, unless you believe that counterarguments are mockery, then please do tell next time.
Kineta said:
The way this thread was designed from the beginning was a call to rise up against the demonic staff rather than trying to think about why the rules may be in place and how to find a better solution ([18+] tags are not a solution).
The way this thread was designed was to be able to discuss this issue rationally, don't worry, it wasn't meant as a rise up against "the demonic staff", you're in no way evil, you're simply ignorant, misguided and you have most likely paid for your PhD, to have it that is.

I gave out some solutions for what you told me the issue was (e.g. PG-13 site, community didn't want 18+ threads, etc), when others mentioned your time, I simply gave you the most rational response (I'll redirect you to what I mean in a second.) and you seem to not have read my other suggestion which involves the devs.
Kineta said:
In short, it was a poor way to achieve desired change which benefits everybody involved. (The OP also broke Rule I.7 by quoting a moderator PM, so please refrain from doing this in future.)
First of, I did not break the Rule I.7, because the PMs that were mentioned had no names on it, anyone could have said them.

Second of all, this was in no way a "poor attempt", it actually went quite well, I answered your arguments and debunked them in the process, the solutions fit the issue, the new issue that came up well. Again, I'll answer that in a second.
Kineta said:
Rule 6 was put in place for a reason, after considerable discussion from the forum mod team.
Yes, and you supposedly gave me these reasons that have no basis anywhere on MAL, as the poll, posts and my arguments have proven. It doesn't matter how much you discuss an issue, hard work is not an argument, I'd say your stance is fallacious here, if you work 70 years on a water purifier but the water comes out murky, it doesn't mean your purifier works because you worked so hard on it. Your purifier does not work. Period.
Kineta said:
If you think the mods add rules because they want to censor people, because they are prudes, or because they are lazy, then we can end this discussion here.
We're sorry that you never give us one iota of a reason for these acts. You have contradicted yourselves and acted hypocritically, if you'll end a rational discussion because you can't take criticism, then you're just proving yourselves incapable of one of your own recruitment rules, AKA not being ruffled easily.
Kineta said:
The staff's time and attention can better go to users who treat us with mutual respect.
So you'd rather have "mutual respect" rather than an outcome that works in the benefit of both you and the community. Dully noted.
Kineta said:
Thankfully, it was nice to see that some users actually saw the problem. These users were able to see both from the community's perspective in wanting to have free discussion, but could also see how some portion of the community took that privilege too far on too many occasions.
Or rather, all of us noticed it, that doesn't justify a complete ban on a huge topic.

The bias is showing more and more.
Kineta said:
They were able to sympathise with both the users and the staff, and hope that a compromise would be able to be reached that wasn't so strict.
Like Kenta's? Because I'm certain that that would have took you time, and a lot of arguing for these topics that would probably would have been posted really late and not all of them either.

When it is your fault, you will never admit to your mistakes. How quaint.

Now, the redirection. When it is your fault, why are we the ones that are punished for this? The "shitposting" was just the same shit that happens every time (which you really haven't proven either, to be honest, there wasn't as much shitposting anyway, and the influx of spam topics wasn't related to sex threads, as I have proven with "FOR THE GREATER GOOD").

Instead, you took completely drastic but irrational action now, after all these years of not having ANY TYPE OF RULE 6 OR SIMILAR RULES ON ANY OTHER TOPIC.

And this is why you're contradictory and hypocritical, you say discussion should be promoted, yet you ban topics that were being discussed, decide already, do you want an easier job or do you want discussion?
Kineta said:
At this point in time, we have no intention to remove the rule.
There goes your word. You yourself said that you will take my suggestion seriously, while another moderator claimed that you will discuss this through what is being posted.
Kineta said:
I am interested in discussing how the Casual Discussion rules could be changed or added to, to better the discussion in the board – that isn't "hire more mods to delete/clean our nonsense/derailed threads" – but I'm not willing to have that discussion in this thread.
We can discuss your issues here. No problemo. We could first have Rule 6 deleted or changed to the something I mentioned, then we can actually hire moderators properly by changing your recruitment requirements because they don't seem to be working if in 4 months you've recruited 3 moderators and you've sent for 20 nominations.

I don't know how there were only 20 in 4 months, you must be testing them in the lab or something.

What else can we do? Oh, I know. Completely destroy the "dupe" excuse whenever a thread is locked or deleted, kill the listing rule because it seems it's not working, it's just being used as an excuse to delete/lock topics at will and re-educate the moderators to understand that a thread that does not break the rules isn't to be locked/deleted until it will do, you don't have Seer Vision, you can't see the future.
Kineta said:
For now, I ask that everyone take a bit of time to cool their heads
I've been cool since the dawn of man. The issue here is that you locked the topic without answering anything and then you blame us, again, for your mistakes and incapability to take criticism and decisions.
Kineta said:
and we can try to have a productive discussion at a later date.
Late, about 1 hour later. Yes.
Kineta said:
In the meantime, please read this post if you haven't done so recently. That's my answer to all of your questions about forum moderator recruitment.
I've read that quite a few times, thank you, it doesn't really tell me why you're not able to recruit enough moderators in pristine time.

It's not the first thing you don't tell us, you tend to keep secret the actual reasons for why you take certain decisions, that is one of the reasons for why my suggestion thread seems to have failed in your eyes.

Conclusion: There was no answer to the main points I have shown in the topic, instead there was a use of red herring to distract away from the main issue. The "demonization" of the mods was actually done by the moderators themselves (KentaTC/NTAD), otherwise I would have not spoken about the mishaps of the moderators if it wasn't for their irrelevant arguments about the staff's time, when their time and what they do with it is their responsibility.

There was also signs of appeal to emotion (we are also blamed to be "angry", and Kineta thanks the ones that appealed to authority), but those were irrelevant, while there was quite a bit of bias (e.g. "this was made to go against us" "I see no productive discussion" etc) and intellectual dishonesty (as I have proven, the moderators said they'll take my suggestion seriously and that they'll discuss it properly, which they haven't from the hasty reply of Kineta).

Kineta also refused to acknowledge any type of solution and has proven that she has not read the topic or my OP by claiming so.

So it is impossible to discuss this rationally, this is the answer to the community's plea.

What I'm asking is for the re-open of the initial thread and an actual response to my and other's arguments, your dismissal of them without any parole was actually mockery when we've put quite a lot of time for the best of the community.


http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1370213
And the initial thread.
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1366532
Posted by Immahnoob | Apr 5, 2015 7:45 PM | 2 comments
Rasco | Jul 14, 2015 6:10 PM
I haven't forgotten about this. I'm actually more curious about when the thread will be reopened. I have a suspicion that it won't be, but rather A DB admin will create a new one. Either way it has already been more than three months.
 
sammario | Apr 16, 2015 6:29 PM
Woot woot! Fight the power, Immahnoob. If we wanted censored discussion, we would go to any other forum on the interweb!