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Clockworks? Why do people always try to compare canon to filler? *facepalm*

w.e Baroque Works i hate names....

Zoro is still the second strongest.

opinionated....
biased opinions like that are the reason a topic like this get annoying fast

Nah. Not an opinion. It's a fact.

where have sanji and zoro in the manga factually honestly and full heatedly fought each other?

zoro and robin?
robin and sanji?
ect ect ect

no 2 members have fought each other wit both intending to win no matter what while in top condition

so theres no way to say who is factually the strongest

give sanji knifes and have him fight zoro i doubt zoro would win easily i would even think that sanji would/could win

its an opinion nowhere does oda say zoro is the strongest or that hes first mate

there are no way u can say its a fact unless u are oda and i doubt that

Robin would lose to both Zoro and Sanji easily.

doubt it she is an assassin even if sanji could fight her he would be in trouble she gots some crazy moves (df)

ok let's check a first mate(chief mate) concept:

responsibilities of a first mate

he chief mate is responsible to the captain for keeping the ship, crew, and cargo safe

this is what Zoro does he took sanji out to keep him safe from kuma
even if luffy wanted to take back into the crew usoop right away Zoro was the one that kept him in check saying no cause if would take him back he could loose respect each time crew member would disagree with a capitan's order they would just quit since they can get back when they want to.

if he was only a swordsman then he would have never risk his own resolution and prerogative to be the best swordsman just for the safety of the crew.

every member of the crew decided to go after robin on their own

sanji even left by himself and was looking for robin when she went missing zoro on the other hand toke no care of robins absence untill they knew what she had done

so the he would give his life crap doesn't qualify him any more then any other member they all would give everything to protect each other

OH YEAH!!! SKY DEVNOOJ IS BACK BABY!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! DID U MOTHERLOVERS THINK I WAS GONE~!!! LOL

THATS ALL I WAS GONNA SAY REALLY BESIDES ALL FIRST MATES AND THE SECOND STRONGEST CHARACTERS IN ONE PIECE HAVE FOUGHT ZORO WHO MOST OF US ON THIS FORUM BELIEVE TO BE 2ND STRONGEST LIKE LUFFY WHO WE CONSIDER THE 1ST STRONGEST FIGHTS THE STRONGEST FOES

AND BEING A SWORDSMAN IN JAPAN, ITS THERE CULTURE THAT SWORDSMAN ARE HIGHLY RESPECTED AND USUALLY PLACED IN POSITION OF HIGH RESPECT SUCH AS FIRST MATE WHEN REFERENCED IN ONE PIECE AS I HAVE STATED BEFORE MANY TIMES...STATEMENTS THAT I DIDN'T MAKE UP CUZ I DIDN'T CREATE THE JAPANESE CULTURE LOL...WHICH IS PROBABLY WHY A LOT OF SWORDSMEN IN ONE PIECE HAVE BEEN THE FIRST MATE IN A PIRATE CREW (HACHI-KILLER-SILVERS RAYLEIGH) OR THE 2ND STRONGEST IN A ORGANIZATION (MR.1-KAKU- PRIEST OHM-TASHIGI ETC)

ALSO ABOUT THE SANJI FIGHTING ZORO WITH KNIVES COMMENT BY WHOEVER IT WAS:

GOT THIS INFO FROM THIS LINK BELOW LOCATED IN THE LAST PARAGRAPH AND IF U DON'T BELIEVE IT U CAN ALWAYS WATCH THE EPISODE VERIFYING THIS:

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Sanji

Last but not least, Sanji is an expert cook, knowing and capable of preparing almost any kind of food with a strong sense to the aesthetics of cooking. He cooks with amazing speed and dexterity, particularly in his use of knives. Though lacking the power and technique of Roronoa Zoro with a bladed weapon, he is able to make very accurate cuts. He rarely uses them in battle, stating that kitchen knives are not meant for that purpose, but makes an exception when Wanze uses food as a weapon, something that he, as a chef, finds unforgivable, and sees a loophole in using his knives as weapons against food. When he does this he is exceptionally skilled in niitonryuu (two-sword style)

ALSO DON'T LET THE LAST SENTENCE THROW U OFF AND BE LIKE "SEE IT EVEN SAID SANJI IS EXCEPTIONAL IN 2-SWORD STYLE WITH KNIVES"...REASON WHY I SAY THAT IS BECAUSE ZORO HAS BEATEN 6 SWORD USER HACHI-4 SWORD USER KAKU-1 SWORD USER TASHIGI AND A DEVIL FRUIT USER THAT CAN MAKE HIS ENTIRE BODY INTO BLADES (MR.1)...AND THE FACT THAT SANJI BELIEVES KNIVES ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE USED IN BATTLE UNLESS THE OPPONENT USES FOOD AGAINST HIM AND I'M SURE NOBODY BELIEVES ZORO USES FOOD TO FIGHT, RIGHT??? LOL

SO YEAH THINK BEFORE U SPEAK IF U WANT TO RESPOND...

SKYDEVNOOJ OUT!!!

ok so u argue that he always fights the 2nd strongest?

how does that make him the 2nd strongest? did sanji fight the 2nd strongest person also? i dont think so

so u cant compare sanji to zoro they havent fought the same opponents

even in the cp9 fight it was uncertain who was the 2nd strongest the one rated at it was just given a df and made many many mistakes while getting used to it plus they were all rated differently some of them had the strongest move others hiting other def so its pointless to compare

its like saying a tak with the best defence in the world is stronger then the tank with the best offence if neither can destroy the other because they are weak where the other is strong

as i said if sanji used knifes the rules he stated was that kitchen knifes were not for fighting not that all knifes were not for fighting, and the fact that he was so skilled with them in a fighting style it indicates that he has trained to use knifes in fighting. you cant just pick up a knife and use it to fight the rules and theorys are different from that of cooking. he is also the best tactician in the straw hat crew

zoro doesnt always fight the 2nd in charge the very fist battle sanji fought in he fought both the 2nd and 3rd in charge

zoro has no interests in bing a pirate hes just along to become the greatest swordsmen he rarely takes interests in the day to day stuff just fallows orders never gives orders

bing the strongest is not the only thing needed for 1st mate

wow, patrat just stop

Wow, people are taking this pretty far. I'd say... well, a lot of people make good points, except Drunk_Samurai and patrat from what I can see. While other people make sound arguments for something that cant really be proven for or against, only speculated, these 2 refuse to losten at all it would seem. Drunk_Samurai keeps saying repeatedly "You are not Oda, you're 100% wrong", which is just silly. This is all based on speculation, it is his opinion, and they provided sound arguments based on the character, what a first mate might do, and so forth. It isnt very productive to just say someone's completely wrong.

Anyhow, I don't really care either way, as it's not very important. What I want to know Drunk_Samurai is why you are arguing so hard against it? Why do you care what other people think? Just forget it, go live your life, it's silly to concern yourself so much with something so trivial and impossible to prove without asking Oda.

i know sanji and zoro have not fought the same opponents because zoro is the one fighting the second strongest

when we first met sanji in the series he fought pearl the 2nd mate of the Krieg Pirates which he was able to take on...then who did he fight and lose to: Gin the 1st mate of the Krieg Pirates, sanji would of lost but Gin showed mercy for sanji's kindness before delivering the final blow...the reason Zoro didn't fight any pirates was because he just got finished fighting Hawk Eyes a Warlord and was ordered by luffy to go after nami and the going merry...other opponents that sanji has fought was Mr.2 the third strongest of the BW Organization and Sanji is the third strongest fighter of the Straw Hats and both of them use kick style fighting...then who did sanji fight at Arlong Park: Kuroobi another martial artist and most likely the 3rd strongest member...who did zoro fight: Arlong Pirates 1st mate and swordsman Hachi...take the thriller bark battles into account as well...sanji fought absalom the invisible tiger with bazooka cannons and not ryuuma the dragon slaying swordsman who split walls in half and put shotgun sized bullet holes through solid brick walls with a thrust of his sword...sanji wouldn't stand a chance against swordsmen...and in the information i posted about sanji and knives, don't neglect that its stated that sanji lacks the power and technique that zoro has with a bladed weapon, sanji can't slice the air with his kitchen knives and can't utilize the same techniques zoro can with his swords and knives are something sanji doesn't even use to fight, over 400 episodes in and he's only used them once in battle

then there's the battle with CP9...who did sanji fight after Kalifa: Jyabura who is also a martial artist mastered in the art of tekkai kenpo and had a recorded douriki of 2180...now who did zoro fight: kaku a master of the rankyaku and a 4 sword user and had a recorded douriki of 2200...now which number is higher??? i'm sure ur smart enough to figure that out...

and i'm sure ur gonna say like last time its only by 20 so it doesn't matter...well here's an analogy: two men enter a "who's the heaviest competition" man #1 weighs 250lbs and man #2 weighs 248lbs...who would win??? it doesn't matter if it was by 20 or by 1 kaku was stronger and a lot more fierce being that he split an entire building in half and i understand that jyabura stated that devil fruit powers were not taken into account but then kaku was given a devil fruit which means he got a power up and became stronger than jyabura once again

and the whole zoro has no interest in being a pirate doesn't make sense because HE IS A PIRATE, if he had no interest in becoming a pirate he would of never agreed when Luffy asked, he would of accepted his fate to die there that day but it didn't happen like that, he joined the Straw Hat Pirates, WHICH MAKES HIM A PIRATE...he's called himself one plenty of times, the world government and marines have already identified him as one and once u have a bounty placed on ur head it is final and will only be removed after death...just because he wants the title of worlds greatest swordsman doesn't mean he won't be a pirate anymore...hawk eyes mihawk is a pirate holding the exact title

and for the last time i agree it takes more than being the second strongest to be 1st mate but it is a very significant requirement...if the 1st mate is not strong then how can the captain rely on that person to protect the others when he can't when faced against strong opponents...u think nami who has absolutely no super strength or usopp who got beat up by the flunkies of the franky family could of defended the lives of the crew from bartholomew kuma...this was also stated by Luffy to Blueno before he used Gear 2nd...he explained why he was glad to have met the CP9 because they showed him how to become stronger, strong enough to save and protect everybody...crew and friends in general

a first mate has the duties to protect the crew when the captain is absent such as the action zoro did against kuma...a first mate must take on a leadership role when the captain is absent like zoro did when they reached enies lobby...a first mate must also advise his captain and the crew and help maintain respect, reference the fight between luffy and usopp, after the battle luffy was hurting from the outcome and zoro was there to advise him that luffy did what he had to and the pain he was feeling was a captains burden

and then when luffy wanted to just let him back into the crew like nothing happened he spoke up and made luffy realize he's the captain that must be respected and it wasn't his place to goto usopp and offer him a place back in the crew...zoro also advised the crew in enies lobby when they realized usopp didn't make it on the king bull stating that everyone of them have gotten stronger and he would survive somehow on his own and they must stay focused on the task at hand: saving robin before she got passed the gates of justice....THAT'S LEADERSHIP!!!

a first mate is usually tasked with the job of guarding the ship, which zoro is constantly on the ship when others are away but just usually sleeping...reference the episode when the going merry was attacked by the franky family, he defended and protected the ship and has every time the ship was under attack and he was on it

a first mate is usually given the job of a look out and zoro is constantly seen at the top of the mast in the room being just that...a first mate must be loyal and follow any order given by his captain no questions asked...zoro has done this any and every time even when zoro didn't agree completely with the decision, he's done this when luffy ordered him to go after nami and bring her back when he was against it...saving Hachi from captivity when he was viewed by him as an enemy just moments before

so u see patrat and drunk samurai, u can finally give it a rest now, let this forum be done with, there is just too much factual evidence that leads to the fact that RORONOA ZORO IS THE FIRST MATE OF THE STRAW HAT PIRATES...but if u still choose not to believe this fact that's okay to, not everybody is talented enough to read between lines, some people need everything spelled out for them and lack the ability to interpret things for themselves but I'm sure u will get better at it as u get older.

i went over this before 20 point difference is that really allot? in addition to it only bing 20 points one of them has just learned his df and the other has had time to profect tech wit the df they didnt test the dourki while they were in df form either the wolf has more muscles in the arms/legs while the graffiti was clumsy and had illconceived moves

the df does not effect them if they are in full human form witch they both were when they tested so both had power up when they changed not just the dude who just got his


zoro his self has said if not for luffy i would not be a pirate go look when they fight the fox dude for evidence of this

sanji was a pirate at the food place they were pirate cooks the whole lot of em


frist mate usually....

we are talking about the straw hat crew usually does not apply here

our captain is a fool a complete idiot

there nothing normal about them its more like his crew babysits a spoiled brat

you have given no factual information THAT points to zoro bing 1st mate

all the evidance ever given in this thread has been that zoro is some1s favorite character or that he is strong nothing has said this is first mate

why do i say that?

first mate has many quality and depending on the crew they have different ones theres any number of quality that would make the captain choose some1 as the first mate

and thats exactly it the first mate is chosen by the captain and its final the captain could pick the weakest dumbest person ever to be first mate but once he does thats that hes first mate

luffy hasnt said who his first mate is
no crew member has said who the first mate is

with out that evidence theres no facts to support any1 as first mate

bw (the organization i cant remember the name of) the 2nd in charge (robin) was that way not necessary because she was 2nd strongest(tho she most likely was) but because she was supper smart

this can be the case of fist mates they can be pick because of their brains

in the straw hat crews case the captain is a complete idiot so to balance it out wouldnt it be wised to make 1st mate some1 who can lay down a plan? some1 with a brain? but at the same time the captian picks so hes dumb and would likely go with the person he thinks is funniest or the one that will agree with him the most ect

OMG guys XD stop already XD

neber! i cant stand opinion based asumption that try to push their religion on ever1 else! if you wanna beleive in god or w.e then go ahead just dont yell at me that its a fact thats undeniable that god exists

if u walk in to a discussion of god existing or not its against the rules to just end ever argument wit "god exist thats that nothing you can say will change it" that just goes to show that u are not open minded

(this argument is more like arguing wither or not Jesus was just a real good man or the son of god)

1) this convo has nothing to do with god...where did that come from, really left field lol...also u really cant talk about being open minded when ur disregarding everything said to u cuz u don't agree with it, thats not being open minded...i hope u realize ur describing urself and contradicting urself through ur own comments lol

2) ur the only one making opinions if u actually read ur comments, ur basically saying everything that i said happened in the show that can be seen by any viewer never really happened because u said so or that oda hasn't scheduled a press conference and said ZORO IS THE FIRST MATE yet lol

3) im aware that zoro has stated he would not be a pirate if it wasn't for luffy...which means u also agree with me when i said zoro is a pirate...luffy is there alive and well which means as long as he is captain zoro will remain a pirate...silvers rayleigh was a pirate during gol d. rogers reign of piracy and after his death he stopped being a pirate but it didn't change the fact that he was a pirate...so basically all i was saying about that was zoro is a pirate and just because he wants the title of worlds greatest swordsmen doesn't mean he'll leave the crew once he obtains it...also nami said she hated pirates but yet she is one, sanji was never a pirate before he joined luffy's crew he was a cook under the tutelage of a former pirate captain...so really none of the straw hats would really be pirates if it wasn't for luffy

4) how can i be making up any of the examples i gave when they come directly from the show itself...so everyone of my post have been factual since it comes from the show

5) BW stands for Barouqe Works, and robin was the partner of Mr.0 but she wasn't the second strongest...Mr.1 and Miss Doublefingers DF Powers was the Slice Slice Fruit which was the ability to turn the users body into blades and the Spike Spike Fruit which was the ability to turn the users body into spikes...what could a DF user that multiplies her limbs to break necks or slap and still feels pain if they are damaged do to them...robin was most likely the deadliest amongst the female agents because of her espionage and tactical skills

6) luffy isn't a genius but he's highly intelligent when it comes to fighting...nobody taught him the soru technique that CP9 had to train to actually master but luffy learned it and surpassed it just by sight...when things are drastic he is very reliable at assessing the situation and choosing the best course of action like during the thriller bark arc

and patrat stop ur whining, nobody is trying to push what they believe on u, we're just giving u actual events that support STRONGLY that zoro is the first mate and i've given u countless info that supports my interpretation that the series itself has provided that would lead to that conclusion but u seem to draw from subjects that have nothing to do with one piece, disregard the facts and actual events that the creator and writers of one piece have shown, ignore all the comments that prove u wrong or u take a comedic show filled with sarcasm and running gags completely literal...so i'll spare the rest of the sane ppl on this thread and leave it alone...

because im sure the fact that zoro fights the 2nd strongest foes, has the 2nd highest bounty in the crew, is a swordsman which is a title said to be placed in highly respected positions such as first mate, the fact that other characters such as hachi, killer, silvers rayleigh, priest ohm, kaku, tashigi and mr.1 have all been swordsman who either are first mate or ranked second in strength and/or hierarchy, the fact that zoro has been seen countless times doing the task of a first mate, the fact that first mate is a position that has not been verbally given and zoro is the only member that has not verbally been given a position which isn't a coincidence, the fact that zoro was literally the first member/mate to join, the fact that everybody else on the ship has a set position on the ship and duty that isn't first mate, the fact that first mates are just as strong as the captains and zoro's fighting style is exactly the attacks luffy is weak against...im sure all those facts that can be seen in the anime and read in the manga dont mean shit unless the guy who created the series blatantly says zoro is the first mate no matter how many times he shows it through his own show....LMAO...PATRAT GTFOH!!!! THATS ALL PPL, I'M DONE

1) it was a this is to that as that is to this thingy

(zoro is first mate as jesus is gods son)

2) i am stating the it is a fact oda never said zoro = 1st mate
as the example in #1 we are arguing about a idea that has no facts to support it but just as no facts can support it none have denied it as a possibility i therefore can only argue that there is others options to explain it

example:
you say jesus walked on water
i say that the sea there occasionally has a phenomenon where ice is formed just under the surface of the water by salt water and fresh water under ground streams that shot up causing a rapid cool forming ice that can support the weight of a person

3)you argued that zoro would take over for luffy if something happened
i argued that he said himself he has no intentions of continuing piracy if his captain is not luffy

4) thus is the reasons for #1

5) you argue that first mate should be the strongest

i argued that oda in the past has used smarts instead of physical strength to determine the 2nd in charge

im glad u realized this and as such u now are responsibility to admit that just cus zoro is strong possibly the 2nd strongest does not make him 1st mate

6) idk what this is ur not disagreeing or agreeing with me here

6.5?) idk if u have noticed but so far ur argument has been that zoro is the strongest therefore he is first mate after #5 in this u admit 1st mate or 2nd in charge does not have to be strongest so that argument can no longer be used to support him as first mate

if not that argument what do u have to support that zoro is first mate? what evidence is there that he is more intelligence then the other members (robin)? or that he has more leadership skills (nami)? or that he has more responsibility? more tactics (sanji) ? cares more for the crew (chopper)?

all other quality s that make up first mate zoro is 2nd or 3rd or even dead last in