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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- So... we did get an "art house" ending. Everyone who thought that Casshern had really sworn off fighting was wrong. Teen Ringo is a lot better than her kid self. And, gawd help us, there is even the possibility of a sequel, if the sales justify it. All-in-all, I found it worth my time to watch it, but I don't think that I would bother to re-watch it. |
| just read the blogs...looks like it diddnt end in a abortion...everything looks like it wasnt left open cant wait for the subs to come out...hopefully they dont take long... really i dont know where this second season rumor is comin from but they should just leave where it is now... |
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| So... No insight on Braiking Boss No insight on Luna Casshern lied when he said he wouldn't kill again. And in fact killed for absolutely no reason. Ringo's (probably) completely human. We wasted more time on flowers. Ultimately, Casshern was an exercise in style over substance. There were some really great ideas that pretty much ran out after 12 episodes. Casshern is a puppet of an inconsistent character tailored to serve an equally inconsistent story. I don't think that this show is worth watching in its entirety. Watch the first few episodes, and leave with a good taste in your mouth. |
| oh man Lyuze. got pretty emotional there. and wow, older Ringo, wished she was like that the whole time. overall, i really enjoyed this series. The first half with all its one shot stories were great, second half was a bit weaker, but was still interesting. gets an 8 from me. |
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noteDhero said: So... No insight on Braiking Boss No insight on Luna Casshern lied when he said he wouldn't kill again. And in fact killed for absolutely no reason. Ringo's (probably) completely human. We wasted more time on flowers. *Enough needed for the story. You don't need to know his full life. He was the Robot King that "created" Casshern and ordered him to kill Luna because she was giving death to immortal beings (his army). He thought all the shit that happened because of this was also his sin. *There was enough. Luna gave death in her former self, now gives eternal life. She hated what she did previously, and after the ending still is a bitch. But she is a needed "evil". Ruin is not normal death, and she is the only cure. The proble is her eternal life also takes the "true" life out of robots, so to speak. See point 4 for continuation =P *People change opinions when they realize things are wrong/ are not what they thought. If you don't like it, go watch something with more one-dimensional characters, like a fighting shonen or something. One of the few times we see this kind of development, and all there is is bitching. *...Did you just miss the point of the entire series? Eternal life is wrong, but ruin in itself is not normal death. Casshern understood this, and so decided to become a sort of god of death. He will not kill unnecesarily, but will be a shadow for people (robots) not to forget that eternal life is not for sure, and that they can still die. *Ringo is the first "next generation" robot. She will live and eventually die like a human. So she can "fully live" and not live in the false dream that is eternal life. More like her will supposedly come, and sooner or later everyone left will be like her. Oh, 8/10 for the whole series. |
EmmanuelVRMar 21, 2009 12:08 AM
| It was a solid series full of emotion. I also give it a 8/10. Ringo turned into a hottie which is a plus and Im still wondering if she was Leda's child. I'm also wondering if Dio and Leda died since they never confirmed it. |
| Three Thousand Realms in a Single Moment |
| I agree with noteDhero - this should have been a 13 episode series. The main story was completely worthless. EmmanuelVR said: What did he want to do in the first place? Wasn't he trying to conquer the world? What made him stop? I thought the reason he wanted Luna dead was because "the world doesn't need two suns".*Enough needed for the story. You don't need to know his full life. He was the Robot King that "created" Casshern and ordered him to kill Luna because she was giving death to immortal beings (his army). He thought all the shit that happened because of this was also his sin. EmmanuelVR said: What do you mean she "gave death"? What does that even mean? She went around killing people? Isn't she supposed to be the source of life? Makes no sense at all.*There was enough. Luna gave death in her former self, now gives eternal life. She hated what she did previously, and after the ending still is a bitch. But she is a needed "evil". Ruin is not normal death, and she is the only cure. The proble is her eternal life also takes the "true" life out of robots, so to speak. See point 4 for continuation =P EmmanuelVR said: Then why the fuck is Luna still giving people eternal life?...Did you just miss the point of the entire series? Eternal life is wrong |
naikou said: ]What did he want to do in the first place? Wasn't he trying to conquer the world? What made him stop? I thought the reason he wanted Luna dead was because "the world doesn't need two suns". What do you mean she "gave death"? What does that even mean? She went around killing people? Isn't she supposed to be the source of life? Makes no sense at all. Then why the fuck is Luna still giving people eternal life? *He built a robot empire to fight humans. (not all robots were in his side, many were in the human's) He basically does and conquers the world. Then Luna is summoned by humans (I'm guessing created) to save them, and becomes a menace for Braiking boss's empire. She becames almost an empress/goddess. Thus he decides to kill her and sends his best assassins, Casshern and company. This was pretty explained. What made him stop? Basically, something like the end of the world, that in casshern sins is called ruin. *Let's get this straight: Luna helped humans combat Braiking Boss's empire. What does this mean? She helped kill people/robots. Now how? I have no idea. She probably did something to opposing robots that granted death. Would have loved to know in a more detailed way, but ultimately does not affect the story at all. We know why the ruin started, why she was "killed", why she changed her personality/way of being, why she basically existed, and her ultimate relationship with casshern. *Wtf? Are you serious? Did you just not watch the series at all? Luna was scared of death and hated it. She wanted to erase it from the face of earth. It's repeated to death (no pun intended) in the series. |
EmmanuelVRMar 21, 2009 3:37 AM
EmmanuelVR said: noteDhero said: So... No insight on Braiking Boss No insight on Luna Casshern lied when he said he wouldn't kill again. And in fact killed for absolutely no reason. Ringo's (probably) completely human. We wasted more time on flowers. *Enough needed for the story. You don't need to know his full life. He was the Robot King that "created" Casshern and ordered him to kill Luna because she was giving death to immortal beings (his army). He thought all the shit that happened because of this was also his sin. *There was enough. Luna gave death in her former self, now gives eternal life. She hated what she did previously, and after the ending still is a bitch. But she is a needed "evil". Ruin is not normal death, and she is the only cure. The proble is her eternal life also takes the "true" life out of robots, so to speak. See point 4 for continuation =P *People change opinions when they realize things are wrong/ are not what they thought. If you don't like it, go watch something with more one-dimensional characters, like a fighting shonen or something. One of the few times we see this kind of development, and all there is is bitching. *...Did you just miss the point of the entire series? Eternal life is wrong, but ruin in itself is not normal death. Casshern understood this, and so decided to become a sort of god of death. He will not kill unnecesarily, but will be a shadow for people (robots) not to forget that eternal life is not for sure, and that they can still die. *Ringo is the first "next generation" robot. She will live and eventually die like a human. So she can "fully live" and not live in the false dream that is eternal life. More like her will supposedly come, and sooner or later everyone left will be like her. Oh, 8/10 for the whole series. @ EmmanuelVR thanks for that cleared all my confusions with the ending and series. |
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Nooo Lyuze,no ; ( Oh man I didn't recognized her death in that scene I loved this show,the best sci fi anime I've ever watched The first part was better than the second,thats true was the ending satisfactory to me? Mhh I don't really know on the pro side - Friender didn't die on the con side - Oji died - Lyuze died ; ( What was that stone |
FabienneMar 21, 2009 7:11 AM
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| i give this serie a 8/10 :). I really enjoyed the serie and i totally agree with EmmanuelVR. There were some holes but every anime has that. @ Naikou. What do you mean she "gave death"? What does that even mean? She went around killing people? Isn't she supposed to be the source of life? Makes no sense at all. ^ She was the source of life. Because with life comes death. When she was "killed" she changed her way of thinking and began to hate death. One last thing i want to say ;_; lyuze |
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noteDhero said: I agree with this part of what you said, I still somewhat enjoyed the series but the second half was a bit allovertheplace. 7/10 from me.Ultimately, Casshern was an exercise in style over substance. There were some really great ideas that pretty much ran out after 12 episodes. Fabienne said: excellent question..What was that stone Fabienne said: Even though completely unrelated but go watch ghost in the shellbest sci fi anime I've ever watched |
Fabienne said:  same question here... any ideas guys??? 8/10 overall... note. last fight scene (w/braikingBoss and his follower) was anti climax, Casshern vs Dio at the middle of the series FTW!!! \m/ |
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sick742 said: same question here... any ideas guys??? 8/10 overall... note. last fight scene (w/braikingBoss and his follower) was anti climax, Casshern vs Dio at the middle of the series FTW!!! m/ |
FabienneMar 21, 2009 8:00 AM
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| Just wanna add that the music for this series is awesome too! Really enjoyed the ride. |
 "Krijg toch allemaal de klere. Val van mijn part allemaal dood." |
| Solid 8/10 for one of few anime which give more to talk about than pairings and action scenes. Overall, C:S is very similar to Ergo Proxy, a huge potential which could be better developed. But still, very memorable sountrack and art. |
"There is a road in the hearts of all of us, hidden and seldom traveled, which leads to an unknown, secret place." |
| Loved the music and the feel of the show but the story itself was kind of bleh. But I actually did enjoy it quite a bit so it gets a 6/10 from me |
EmmanuelVR said: *He built a robot empire to fight humans. (not all robots were in his side, many were in the human's) He basically does and conquers the world. Then Luna is summoned by humans (I'm guessing created) to save them, and becomes a menace for Braiking boss's empire. She becames almost an empress/goddess. Thus he decides to kill her and sends his best assassins, Casshern and company. This was pretty explained. What made him stop? Basically, something like the end of the world, that in casshern sins is called ruin. *Let's get this straight: Luna helped humans combat Braiking Boss's empire. What does this mean? She helped kill people/robots. Now how? I have no idea. She probably did something to opposing robots that granted death. Would have loved to know in a more detailed way, but ultimately does not affect the story at all. We know why the ruin started, why she was "killed", why she changed her personality/way of being, why she basically existed, and her ultimate relationship with casshern. *Wtf? Are you serious? Did you just not watch the series at all? Luna was scared of death and hated it. She wanted to erase it from the face of earth. It's repeated to death (no pun intended) in the series. Braiking Boss did not conquer the world. Everyone worshipped Luna before she "died" and worhshipped her afterward. No one gave Braiking Boss a second thought. Casshern was the one who swayed people's emotions in an equal way to Luna. And then Dio and Leda came along. As far as commanding people's hearts go, it was 1.Luna 2.Casshern 3.Dio & Leda (Leda was the real mastermind after all) 4.Braiking Boss But like Braiking Boss said, she is scared of Death, yet is the one ultimately responsible for it (she granted death in the beginning, caused ruin, and now kills anyone on their last legs). The problem is that everything they ever presented for the main story was later contradicted or made vague by a new piece of information later. Sure every show has plot holes, but this show had plot holes concerning main characters and to a lesser extent their motivations. Now, if the theme of the show is that "Eternal life is wrong, but ruin itself is not normal death" (which is impossible because themes are supposed to be a bit broader than that); then as naikou said, "why allow Luna to live?" You can't present a theme and then not follow through with it. This is what begot most of my confusion in the latter episodes. They presented Luna as the figure of hope and answers, it then turned out not to be the case, and then everything after that was a downard spiral into trying to make everything fit together. I could have done without Casshern confronting Leda and instead had more words with Teen Ringo at the end. That was a better way of trying to say anything. |
Fabienne said: What was that stone Wasn't it supposed to be the whole deal behind immortality? That stone is supposed to be full of nanomachines. The thing is ohji said he would investigate it, so normally most would think that it would be something important for the development of the series, and in the end didn't and was more of a backstory/the reason for them to being immortal. Schwarzer_Tod said: Comrade reporting in: Some food for thought, in one slavic language "Luna" means "Moon"... So i liek such final. 9/10, highly rewatchable. In spanish Luna means moon. |
EmmanuelVRMar 21, 2009 10:01 AM
| 7/10 for this show. And a question for those manga readers out here, is there better ending in manga? I haven't read it, and I am most certainly not happy with this one. Also, I agree with noteDhero on many points, especially on Braiking Boss and Luna. Those two were supposed to be main, and next to main characters, yet, all we got was lame and short background story in 10 seconds. I hope there won't be sequel, but I would really like SOME explanations. |
noteDhero said: Braiking Boss did not conquer the world. Everyone worshipped Luna before she "died" and worhshipped her afterward. No one gave Braiking Boss a second thought. Casshern was the one who swayed people's emotions in an equal way to Luna. And then Dio and Leda came along. As far as commanding people's hearts go, it was 1.Luna 2.Casshern 3.Dio & Leda (Leda was the real mastermind after all) 4.Braiking Boss But like Braiking Boss said, she is scared of Death, yet is the one ultimately responsible for it (she granted death in the beginning, caused ruin, and now kills anyone on their last legs). The problem is that everything they ever presented for the main story was later contradicted or made vague by a new piece of information later. Sure every show has plot holes, but this show had plot holes concerning main characters and to a lesser extent their motivations. Now, if the theme of the show is that "Eternal life is wrong, but ruin itself is not normal death" (which is impossible because themes are supposed to be a bit broader than that); then as naikou said, "why allow Luna to live?" You can't present a theme and then not follow through with it. This is what begot most of my confusion in the latter episodes. They presented Luna as the figure of hope and answers, it then turned out not to be the case, and then everything after that was a downard spiral into trying to make everything fit together. I could have done without Casshern confronting Leda and instead had more words with Teen Ringo at the end. That was a better way of trying to say anything. You see, you got the order of things wrong. Braiking was conquering the world before Luna appeared. *He* is the reason Luna was summoned. Once she is summoned, she takes the spotlight. The order you set is for the middle of the series. Before the whole Casshern kills Luna deal, Casshern, Dio and Leda were insignificant. Just soldiers. For as to why let Luna live, the ruin is killing everyone. And even if Luna is killed, it won't stop. What does this mean? That EVERYONE is going to die. And Casshern ultimately doesn't want for robots to go out of bussiness. So he decides to let anyone that wants eternal life get it, but thanks to him it won't be a full "eternal life" concept, as that would mean having absolutely no fear of death, and him scaring the shit out of everyone means giving a fear of death. The theme is followed perfectly in my opinion. Edit: Oh, and the main theme is "eternal life is wrong" by itself. Ruin is just the consequence for trying to get it and is not a part of the theme at all (in my opinion at least). It's a "end of the world" device only. Mind you I don't think this show is perfectl, and I do believe it could have used some help in the storytelling department, but it ultimately achieved what it wanted to, in a more than good way. |
EmmanuelVRMar 21, 2009 10:14 AM
| So Luna was created to stop Braiking Boss, and because of that was given the power to kill robots? Regarding that order, I don't know why you say the middle of the series, because this is the events of the whole series. So, what you're saying is that ultimately, dying from a disease is bad, so murder is a better option. Eternal life is wrong, so toss it out the window completely. Casshern said himself that people lived because of ruin. So is ruin really bad? No, what it did was make robots more human, but they didn't know how to deal with that. Luna should have died so that the robots whould have to come to terms with their own mortality and not look for an escape, thereby allowing them to lead real lives. That way death isn't forgotten and Casshern isn't an arrogant hypocrite. The real theme should be about "The sacredness of life and respecting it," but no one except for Ringo, Oji, and Lyuze does that. |
noteDhero said: So Luna was created to stop Braiking Boss, and because of that was given the power to kill robots? Regarding that order, I don't know why you say the middle of the series, because this is the events of the whole series. So, what you're saying is that ultimately, dying from a disease is bad, so murder is a better option. Eternal life is wrong, so toss it out the window completely. Casshern said himself that people lived because of ruin. So is ruin really bad? No, what it did was make robots more human, but they didn't know how to deal with that. Luna should have died so that the robots whould have to come to terms with their own mortality and not look for an escape, thereby allowing them to lead real lives. That way death isn't forgotten and Casshern isn't an arrogant hypocrite. The real theme should be about "The sacredness of life and respecting it," but no one except for Ringo, Oji, and Lyuze does that. Middle as in, during the show. For the rest, it's almost as if you are intentionally twisting my words. Ruin is not a disease. Ruin is like a nuclear catastrophe. It's not normal, it's not something that is meant to be. Allowing it would mean the final extinction of robots. For robots to accept it would mean the end of their race. This series is sad, but ultimately had a "good end" in the big picture. Casshern found a way to get/give both life, and death to allow a full life. Ohji and Lyuze are the actual motivations for Casshern to decide this. Mostly Lyuze with her "I want to live" final phrase. Ringo is special, ringo is someone who got both by herself (or by her own nature). And more like her are supposed to come. (Like an open-end aspect of the ending) |
| just plain awesome. i didn't expect lyuze to die. it was done so well and got me so sad. and casshern killing again was good bc he only did it to say i kill if you ever forget the meaning of life and take if for granted and abuse it. very good, tho i don't understand why he abandoned ringo. and i guess oji died also bc there were two headstones at the end. |
| No, I'm not twisting your words. This is just how I see it: Ruin is like the Plague. Some people are immune (Casshern) or gain immunity and some people managed to beat it (Ringo). Moreover, it started with the mixing of Casshern and Luna's blood. I see it as a disease since Ringo (who, because we have no insight that she is biologically or mechanically special) manages to live for years. This is because she doesn't let Ruin define her, like any normal living beng. Everyone who became obsessed over Ruin and ther impending demise died quicker and in despair. Had they faced their own mortality and not worried about it I suspect it would not have affected them like Ringo. |
noteDhero said: No, I'm not twisting your words. This is just how I see it: Ruin is like the Plague. Some people are immune (Casshern) or gain immunity and some people managed to beat it (Ringo). Moreover, it started with the mixing of Casshern and Luna's blood. I see it as a disease since Ringo (who, because we have no insight that she is biologically or mechanically special) manages to live for years. This is because she doesn't let Ruin define her, like any normal living beng. Everyone who became obsessed over Ruin and ther impending demise died quicker and in despair. Had they faced their own mortality and not worried about it I suspect it would not have affected them like Ringo. This is a speculation at most. And I don't think the people in Casshern Sins would have liked to wait and find out. That's why he says "if they want eternal life, fine they can get it, it's their choice, just don't forget I exist". Which makes me realize just now (sort of slow lol) that he gave them the choice. They can still face mortality and die helplessly if they want (sure as hell didn't help Lyuze, considering the fact she accepted everything up until the end). Ringo is special, you know from the moment you see she, as a supposed robot, grows up. She is the first Bred? robot. (and by deduction and seeing Leda's reaction upon realizing something , Leda's daughter). |
| It's speculation because of so much that was left unanswered or specified. Lyuze spent a good bit of her life with ruin, and didn't really accept it until the very end when she had already become coarse and brittle. It was just too late for her. Regardless though, they did lead long lives. Ringo does grow up, but remembering that Lyuze was little at one point (wasn't she in that flashback with her sister?) makes me question how special she is and what that really means since robots can bleed and everything. But again, since the show didn't bother to answer that question, we don't really know. |
EmmanuelVR said: naikou said: *Wtf? Are you serious? Did you just not watch the series at all? Luna was scared of death and hated it. She wanted to erase it from the face of earth. It's repeated to death (no pun intended) in the series.Then why the fuck is Luna still giving people eternal life? No, no. Listen: If the theme of Casshern Sins was that eternal life was bad, and that we need to learn to accept death as a part of life, then why is Luna still there giving robots eternal life? It doesn't make any sense. It's thematically confusing. If that's not the case, then what is the theme of Casshern Sins? What exactly is it trying to say? How does it apply to life? That sort of thing. |
noteDhero said: It's speculation because of so much that was left unanswered or specified. Lyuze spent a good bit of her life with ruin, and didn't really accept it until the very end when she had already become coarse and brittle. It was just too late for her. Regardless though, they did lead long lives. Ringo does grow up, but remembering that Lyuze was little at one point (wasn't she in that flashback with her sister?) makes me question how special she is and what that really means since robots can bleed and everything. But again, since the show didn't bother to answer that question, we don't really know. There was not "so much" left unanswered. You are just speculating that ruin kills those who don't accept it, when it wasn't even implied in the show. You are just deducing something on your own, you can't blame the show for not responding your own speculations =P We were showed that ruin gets everyone at some point (everyone "normal" at least), and kills them at different times and/or speed. As for Lyuze, upon walking away from Luna with Casshern and Ringo, she is accepting it already. That's why her whole talk with casshern about finding every day something she enjoys from life and that in her last day she finds out she wants to continue living is so special. As for her being little, I actually don't remember. I don't have the whole series right now to do a quick search. I can assure you tho that the blood is something special of ringo, that's why everyone was so surprised. |
| Not that great end as i expected. But i enjoyed series much, so 9/10. |
naikou said: No, no. Listen: If the theme of Casshern Sins was that eternal life was bad, and that we need to learn to accept death as a part of life, then why is Luna still there giving robots eternal life? It doesn't make any sense. It's thematically confusing. If that's not the case, then what is the theme of Casshern Sins? What exactly is it trying to say? How does it apply to life? That sort of thing. see http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=73434&pages=2&show=20#msg2837708 EmmanuelVR said: For as to why let Luna live, the ruin is killing everyone. And even if Luna is killed, it won't stop. What does this mean? That EVERYONE is going to die. And Casshern ultimately doesn't want for robots to go out of bussiness. So he decides to let anyone that wants eternal life get it, but thanks to him it won't be a full "eternal life" concept, as that would mean having absolutely no fear of death, and him scaring the shit out of everyone means giving a fear of death. The theme is followed perfectly in my opinion. Edit: Oh, and the main theme is "eternal life is wrong" by itself. Ruin is just the consequence for trying to get it and is not a part of the theme at all (in my opinion at least). It's a "end of the world" device only. Mind you I don't think this show is perfectl, and I do believe it could have used some help in the storytelling department, but it ultimately achieved what it wanted to, in a more than good way. And read http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=73434&pages=2&show=20#msg2837790 If you still have some doubts. Hope it'll help. |
EmmanuelVRMar 21, 2009 11:24 AM
EmmanuelVR said: noteDhero said: It's speculation because of so much that was left unanswered or specified. Lyuze spent a good bit of her life with ruin, and didn't really accept it until the very end when she had already become coarse and brittle. It was just too late for her. Regardless though, they did lead long lives. Ringo does grow up, but remembering that Lyuze was little at one point (wasn't she in that flashback with her sister?) makes me question how special she is and what that really means since robots can bleed and everything. But again, since the show didn't bother to answer that question, we don't really know. There was not "so much" left unanswered. You are just speculating that ruin kills those who don't accept it, when it wasn't even implied in the show. You are just deducing something on your own, you can't blame the show for not responding your own speculations =P We were showed that ruin gets everyone at some point (everyone "normal" at least), and kills them at different times and/or speed. As for Lyuze, upon walking away from Luna with Casshern and Ringo, she is accepting it already. That's why her whole talk with casshern about finding every day something she enjoys from life and that in her last day she finds out she wants to continue living is so special. As for her being little, I actually don't remember. I don't have the whole series right now to do a quick search. I can assure you tho that the blood is something special of ringo, that's why everyone was so surprised. So you don't think it's important that Ringo's specialness isn't answered? That those rusted head things on her were completely off at the end? Those two questions being answered fixes almost every problem I have with the show. It answers questions regarding the nature and effects of ruin on certain robots. It answers if Ringo is human, robot, or both; and it makes the main theme of Casshern more evident. Personally, I don't agree with your theme because it wasn't something that was even brought up until the very end of the show. Nor can it really be applied to any of the episodes in the beginning. Eternal life either is wrong because it isn't natural, or is right because it is a natural by product of having robots. The show took painstaking measures to blur the line between robots and humans, so there is no clarity in talking about a theme that depends on eternal life. That's why I think that the show was trying to be about "Living a full, happy life despite impending death." Ringo is the only one able to do that, thus, she lives. |
EmmanuelVR said: That does make some sense. I'm still not completely clear, though.For as to why let Luna live, the ruin is killing everyone. And even if Luna is killed, it won't stop. What does this mean? That EVERYONE is going to die. And Casshern ultimately doesn't want for robots to go out of bussiness. So he decides to let anyone that wants eternal life get it, but thanks to him it won't be a full "eternal life" concept, as that would mean having absolutely no fear of death, and him scaring the shit out of everyone means giving a fear of death. The theme is followed perfectly in my opinion. Edit: Oh, and the main theme is "eternal life is wrong" by itself. Ruin is just the consequence for trying to get it and is not a part of the theme at all (in my opinion at least). It's a "end of the world" device only. Mind you I don't think this show is perfectl, and I do believe it could have used some help in the storytelling department, but it ultimately achieved what it wanted to, in a more than good way. If that's the case, I completely disagree with Casshern Sins. What's so bad about Ruin? A ton of the robots in the earlier episodes died of Ruin and still managed to live beautiful lives. What's wrong with that? |
| A beautiful ending. Though I probably won't rewatch it, i'll still keep it in my archive, just because I think it deserves that. |
| In my opinion the short stories of the first half was better than the main story in the second half. But I still liked it gets a 7/10 for me :] |
 Breath|| |
| An awesome and "beautiful" anime I'll give it a 10 I enjoyed it A LOT more than other anime's I've seen before. |
- Signature Removed - The signature seriously lacked "It's a Sony" qualities. |
| Wow I Can't Believe Its Over =[ I Was Happy That I Saw This Thru The End ^^ I Really Love How Ringer Grew up, But Sad That Oji And Lyuze Died In The End.. I Was Hoping Casshern Will Take Her To Luna And Force Her Something But Guess Not =[ 10/10 |
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naikou said: If that's the case, I completely disagree with Casshern Sins. What's so bad about Ruin? A ton of the robots in the earlier episodes died of Ruin and still managed to live beautiful lives. What's wrong with that? I already said this, but oh well, several reasons: First, they still want to live. Lyuze was an example. Casshern is giving them the choice. "If they want Luna's healing, they can get it." Or do you go to doctors and say "hey, even with cancer this people still can live beautifully, why the hell try to cure them?" when in fact, as of now, the cure really destroys their body too. (when speaking of some chemotherapy specially). In fact that's what ruin can be considered and compared to. Cancer produced by nuclear radiation. The parallels are astounding. Second, ruin is going to kill EVERYONE (deja vú). It means the extinction of robots. It's a no-no. noteDhero said: So you don't think it's important that Ringo's specialness isn't answered? That those rusted head things on her were completely off at the end? Those two questions being answered fixes almost every problem I have with the show. It answers questions regarding the nature and effects of ruin on certain robots. It answers if Ringo is human, robot, or both; and it makes the main theme of Casshern more evident. Personally, I don't agree with your theme because it wasn't something that was even brought up until the very end of the show. Nor can it really be applied to any of the episodes in the beginning. Eternal life either is wrong because it isn't natural, or is right because it is a natural by product of having robots. The show took painstaking measures to blur the line between robots and humans, so there is no clarity in talking about a theme that depends on eternal life. That's why I think that the show was trying to be about "Living a full, happy life despite impending death." Ringo is the only one able to do that, thus, she lives. As for Ringo's specialness: She is the "next generation" robot (I already said this I think). One that can be bred and breed. Can grow old. Basically something almost human. It was one of the subplots along the show. Leda, Dio and Casshern where created with the ability to reproduce (it's Leda's reason for being a bitch). How ever they could not "live" like humans. Their children, on the other hand could. Leda (and everyone) thought the experiment failed when her child "died". Except it didn't and somehow after the Casshern kills luna incident where everything went to shit, the baby ended up where Ohji found it. I think I'm just going in circles with you, answering things I already did. As for the rusted piece of metal on her head, dunno lol, she grew and they fell or something. The ruin was never in her body, and unlike you I don't consider that important, since it doesn't create any questions. For the rest, exactly, it's your own *personal* conclusion. I won't say no, and basically I just provided during the whole discussion facts that could or could not make you change your mind if you were interested to. Robots before Luna apparently could live eternal lifes, but that's why Luna came to be. And seeing that she herself didn't bring ruin, but the union of death's and life's blood (Luna and Casshern) that created truly immortal people. Who knows? I actually like your theme, and is present along the show too, so why can't both of them be? A show is allowed to have more than one theme (and is better). And they could easily go hand on hand. I mean, you say the theme is "Living a full, happy life despite impending death." but that doesn't happen if you have eternal life. Death is forgotten, and so everyone forgets they are actually living, and that they can live with passion up to the end. Thus it makes eternal life wrong, as it actually isn't truly living. Ringo is an example of this, as she is someone that will eventually die, and so can live normally and beautifully up to the end. |
EmmanuelVR said: The ruin wouldn't kill all robots. At least 3 of them would definitely survive - Casshern, Ringo, and Luna. Besides, the rest of the robots can't reproduce anyway, so it doesn't matter (to the "species" of robots) whether or not they die.naikou said: If that's the case, I completely disagree with Casshern Sins. What's so bad about Ruin? A ton of the robots in the earlier episodes died of Ruin and still managed to live beautiful lives. What's wrong with that? I already said this, but oh well, several reasons: First, they still want to live. Lyuze was an example. Casshern is giving them the choice. "If they want Luna's healing, they can get it." Or do you go to doctors and say "hey, even with cancer this people still can live beautifully, why the hell try to cure them?" when in fact, as of now, the cure really destroys their body too. (when speaking of some chemotherapy specially). In fact that's what ruin can be considered and compared to. Cancer produced by nuclear radiation. The parallels are astounding. Second, ruin is going to kill EVERYONE (deja vú). It means the extinction of robots. It's a no-no. Also, what is the Ruin? Seems to me like that was never explained. It looked like it affected the entire world, not just robots. One minute the ground is crumbling everywhere, the world is barren, and then suddenly Lyuze is planting flowers? |
| You have said some of this, but honestly it's nothing confirmed in the show. The most we have to go on that Ringo is Leda's child is that tiny moment in episode 23. I don't remember the show ever talking about how Leda's child could live. The thing is, unless you have read something or these things were stated in the other incarnations of Casshern, they aren't facts. And even if they are in different adaptations, that doesn't mean that the writing can be so lazy as to connect things with fishing line. In my mind this is a separate show for a reason. Both can be themes if they weren't so close together in what they were trying to say. Of course, I like to think that my theme works more because it is broader and present the whole of the series. |
| The stuff I talked about was mostly heavily implied in the series actually. I don't expect the series to spoon-feed me with dense explanations, and I'm glad it didn't. (for leda, we have both episode 23 and before, the episode dedicated to her [can't remember the number], and several conversations all over the show.) The wrong of eternal life is also present throughout the show, just becomes more apparent towards the ending. I mean, it's the whole basis of why the ruin exists, and that is from the get go. |
naikou said: EmmanuelVR said: The ruin wouldn't kill all robots. At least 3 of them would definitely survive - Casshern, Ringo, and Luna. Besides, the rest of the robots can't reproduce anyway, so it doesn't matter (to the "species" of robots) whether or not they die.naikou said: If that's the case, I completely disagree with Casshern Sins. What's so bad about Ruin? A ton of the robots in the earlier episodes died of Ruin and still managed to live beautiful lives. What's wrong with that? I already said this, but oh well, several reasons: First, they still want to live. Lyuze was an example. Casshern is giving them the choice. "If they want Luna's healing, they can get it." Or do you go to doctors and say "hey, even with cancer this people still can live beautifully, why the hell try to cure them?" when in fact, as of now, the cure really destroys their body too. (when speaking of some chemotherapy specially). In fact that's what ruin can be considered and compared to. Cancer produced by nuclear radiation. The parallels are astounding. Second, ruin is going to kill EVERYONE (deja vú). It means the extinction of robots. It's a no-no. Also, what is the Ruin? Seems to me like that was never explained. It looked like it affected the entire world, not just robots. One minute the ground is crumbling everywhere, the world is barren, and then suddenly Lyuze is planting flowers? wow are you kidding.... they talked about ruin in every episode ruin is mostly when the robot starts to rust |
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Inugo said: wow are you kidding.... they talked about ruin in every episode ruin is mostly when the robot starts to rust o rly? Come on, that's obviously not what I'm talking about. |
EmmanuelVR said: The stuff I talked about was mostly heavily implied in the series actually. I don't expect the series to spoon-feed me with dense explanations, and I'm glad it didn't. (for leda, we have both episode 23 and before, the episode dedicated to her [can't remember the number], and several conversations all over the show.) The wrong of eternal life is also present throughout the show, just becomes more apparent towards the ending. I mean, it's the whole basis of why the ruin exists, and that is from the get go. I don't expect to be spoon fed either. However, important plot points such as those can't go without being confirmed, yet made implied with tangential conversation. Again, I wouldn't have a problem if these implications weren't so integral to the series. It shows a lack of focus on the right things in my eyes. @naikou Honestly, now that you mention it, it is weird that Ruin affects all life except for humans. I don't think that we saw any humans suffer from Ruin directly. They only became hunted as a point of rage by robots who couldn't handle dying. I don't really know why it would affect the plant life. |
| I must thank Casshern Sins for having reminded me in the last 6 months that Japanese animation can be an Art and not just entertainment. Casshern Sins and Kaiba are without a doubt the two shows released in 2008 that proved this fact and I think we must be thankful at least for that. Then, is the script exceptional, are there no mistakes, are the characters perfectly developed from beginning to end, is the structure flawless, was everything relevent to the plot etc...? Of course not, but for me, all these questions are meaningless before this particular series, and that's precisely why it's a masterpiece. Casshern Sins is like if we had put 12 times in a row the last two episodes of Evangelion : it's pure emotional impact and extraordinarily detailled atmosphere mixed with great psychology as well as incredible direction and animation. Still, I understand why some are disapointed, but I'm not ;) 10/10 |
 In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
noteDhero said: Yeah, it's weird! Remember the scene where Luna freaks out because the flowers are being Ruined a few episodes back? Why did that suddenly change? Luna obviously didn't cover the planet in her blood, so there's got to be some better explanation.@naikou Honestly, now that you mention it, it is weird that Ruin affects all life except for humans. I don't think that we saw any humans suffer from Ruin directly. They only became hunted as a point of rage by robots who couldn't handle dying. I don't really know why it would affect the plant life. |
noteDhero said: That's why I think that the show was trying to be about "Living a full, happy life despite impending death." Ringo is the only one able to do that, thus, she lives. yes, what he said. naikou said: Yeah, it's weird! Remember the scene where Luna freaks out because the flowers are being Ruined a few episodes back? Why did that suddenly change? Luna obviously didn't cover the planet in her blood, so there's got to be some better explanation. Most of the flowers there were actually pretty healthy (which is why Luna is always wading in fields of them at that point)... but every garden needs pruning, even if it's healthy. Although the dying flowers were meant to be symbolic of ruin/death, it's not like the flowers were all dying off en masse as the robots were. Overall I really enjoyed this series, although I had trouble relating to a lot of the discussion... I've had it rated as 9/10, but the unfulfilling ending is greatly tempting me to drop it down a point. A few main characters die (fleetingly)...."I'm death"-"I'm life".... *the end*..... I was hoping for some greater revelation. Just that you should live life to the fullest didn't really have much of an impact for me. |
 I am a banana. |
noteDhero said: EmmanuelVR said: The stuff I talked about was mostly heavily implied in the series actually. I don't expect the series to spoon-feed me with dense explanations, and I'm glad it didn't. (for leda, we have both episode 23 and before, the episode dedicated to her [can't remember the number], and several conversations all over the show.) The wrong of eternal life is also present throughout the show, just becomes more apparent towards the ending. I mean, it's the whole basis of why the ruin exists, and that is from the get go. I don't expect to be spoon fed either. However, important plot points such as those can't go without being confirmed, yet made implied with tangential conversation. Again, I wouldn't have a problem if these implications weren't so integral to the series. It shows a lack of focus on the right things in my eyes. @naikou Honestly, now that you mention it, it is weird that Ruin affects all life except for humans. I don't think that we saw any humans suffer from Ruin directly. They only became hunted as a point of rage by robots who couldn't handle dying. I don't really know why it would affect the plant life. Humans do not ruin. We are not robots. Some people may be "tools", but we are not made of metal. Ruin is equal to aging in my opinion the robots just could not take it because they were used to eternal life. The flowers were dying because they were not being care of properly. They were living when Lyuze was planiting because Ohji was making fertilizer. I am giving this anime a 9/10, but I may lower the scores on some other anime and give this a 10/10 because of the story, development of characters, and the fact that Casshern is a pimp. Everything was understandable and I liked the ending. |
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Jacut said: I must thank Casshern Sins for having reminded me in the last 6 months that Japanese animation can be an Art and not just entertainment. Casshern Sins and Kaiba are without a doubt the two shows released in 2008 that proved this fact and I think we must be thankful at least for that. Then, is the script exceptional, are there no mistakes, are the characters perfectly developed from beginning to end, is the structure flawless, was everything relevent to the plot etc...? Of course not, but for me, all these questions are meaningless before this particular series, and that's precisely why it's a masterpiece. Casshern Sins is like if we had put 12 times in a row the last two episodes of Evangelion : it's pure emotional impact and extraordinarily detailled atmosphere mixed with great psychology as well as incredible direction and animation. Still, I understand why some are disapointed, but I'm not ;) 10/10 Maybe that's why I'm so hard on Casshern. I just watched Kaiba about a month ago, and with Kaiba, I have a lot of the same issues. Perhaps the exact same issues. The difference is though that Kaiba was half as long, and therefore didn't really wear out its welcome. Also, Kaiba went really far to be inventive with music, animation and art, and Casshern just looked like a throwback to me and didn't really vary itself with music. |
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