| I haven't really read it, but from what I was told from my sister, who loves this manga and has been waiting forever for it, and I also find it cruel. I mean, whoever she ends up in the other dimension it still will be cruel to either one of the guys, and not to mention that it already is cruel to guy she already married in the first time line( dimension). No offense, but I really think the girl is a damn selfish bitch. She already got married and had a baby on the first dimension, but her trying to save the guy means that she has regrets and is not happy, also why not let the other guy rest in peace. I really do not understand why does she want him to live. Does she plan to be with him or at some point does she plan to dump him for the guy she married in the first dimension. If she ends up saving and living with him, I find it completely cruel for the other guy since he had to help the girl he loves go out with the other, not to mention feel like he was only a consolation prize after the other one died. Also, what about her baby, I think that's what makes it worse, does she not feel happy of being a mom at all, or is just that the baby is not of the guy she wanted. IMO if she had a baby with the other guy is cause she is happy with him and loves him. What kind of girl has a baby without love, or did she had pity sex with him and as result she got pregnant. I usually hate the second guys, but on this one, IMO the least cruel way out would be if she end up with the same guy she married on the first dimension, but then again, why the hell did she do all that. Why did she make her husband suffer and think that she went out with him only cause the other one was dead as consolation prize. And why she didn't leave the other guy just rest in peace if she was going to leave him alone (Or does she plan to help him find another girl, or does she hopes he will find a new love). |
jose21Jan 9, 2014 10:48 AM
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| It already says spoilers in the title so I won't mark mine. I didn't feel like she regretted, per se, her relationship with Suwa and her child. It's just that she regretted not being there for Kakeru when his mother killed herself and when all the other bad stuff happened. (Haven't read it in a while so I forget every little detail, but come on.) Again, it's been some time since I read it so I might be missing a few tidbits of info here, but maybe Naho has lost a parent or something and so she's feeling remorse and guilt for not letting Kakeru be with his mom so maybe he could've prevented it. Plus...he practically killed himself with the bike accident, so there was obviously something going on there. Suwa's sending letters, too, so it's not like Naho's just some jerk who wants nothing to do with her family. Everybody regrets losing a friend, and I guess it's never too late for a shoujo manga's characters to realize that. |
luxraysrock said: It already says spoilers in the title so I won't mark mine. I didn't feel like she regretted, per se, her relationship with Suwa and her child. It's just that she regretted not being there for Kakeru when his mother killed herself and when all the other bad stuff happened. (Haven't read it in a while so I forget every little detail, but come on.) Again, it's been some time since I read it so I might be missing a few tidbits of info here, but maybe Naho has lost a parent or something and so she's feeling remorse and guilt for not letting Kakeru be with his mom so maybe he could've prevented it. Plus...he practically killed himself with the bike accident, so there was obviously something going on there. Suwa's sending letters, too, so it's not like Naho's just some jerk who wants nothing to do with her family. Everybody regrets losing a friend, and I guess it's never too late for a shoujo manga's characters to realize that. Since I haven't read it, from what I understood it was a suicide. IMO, if that was a suicide, then I still think it is a bit selfish trying to change the past as he did not wanted to live (Sure why not try to help him, but at some point he will try that again if that's the case, unless she plans to be supervising him for the rest of her life). If it was just an accident, then sure why not trying to help my friend whose life got cut sort in that freak accident. Finally, sorry I misunderstood the whole situation, I seriously thought she still lingering feeling for kakeru, I didn't know she only saw him as a friend (Now, I can feel at ease knowing that Suwa wasn't helping his rival, but a friend as well). BTW, did he ever mention in his letter that it may be painful for the past him to see then together, and if it did wouldn't it be painful for the future him and making him feel like the consolation prize?. |
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| In his letters to his past self, Suwa did mention something along the lines of, "I know it'll hurt, but to see the girl you love happy is more than worth doing something painful." Basically, generic second-guy stuff, but still pretty touching. I forget if they ever mentioned that the future Naho still has feelings, but (this gets confusing trying to explain, lol) the past Naho that received the letter is starting to like Kakeru, so she definitely wants to try and follow the letter's instructions. I guess it maybe is a little bit selfish, especially now that you mentioned the fact that it really IS a suicide so he just didn't want to live...but then again we don't know what happened until then. Maybe there was a huge fight between Naho/Kakeru or Suwa/Kakeru or any combination of the group of friends, and they just wanna fix it. Sorry if I came off rude! hah, I just wanted to put my own two cents in. And I'm not sure if you're a big fan at all of shoujo, but even if you're not, this one's pretty good if you can handle waiting a month (supposedly) until the mangaka starts drawing it again, so you should check it out :) There are some cliches because it is shoujo, but it's a plot that's never been done in the genre before, I think, and it's wonderfully executed! And now I'm a spokesperson. |
luxraysrock said: Sorry if I came off rude! hah, I just wanted to put my own two cents in. Not rude at all, that would actually be me, considering I haven't read it, and I am commenting just base on what I heard. |
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| //A lot of spoilers// I don't think she wants to change the past so she can be with Kakeru. In the first chapter she says "to the me ten years in the past, there are a lot of happy and joyful things that are waiting for you", so I get the feeling that she's happy with her family. But also she says that their bigger regret was not saving Kakeru, which at least I think it's not the same at 'being with him instead of Suwa'. The five of them have that regret and they all want to make Kakeru happy, it's been said that neither of them knew that he killed himself (they thought it was an accident), so I think it's normal to want to know at least what happened. They thought they knew him but it wasn't true (for ex, Naho didn't knew that Kakeru's mother had committed suicide, she didn't knew either that he was in love with her, they didn't knew when was his birthday, etc), so it must be really hard to live regretting a lot of things, more if you think that you could've done something to help that other person. Naho isn't the only one who regrets it. Maybe in the end Kakeru still kills himself, maybe not, but at least all of them aren't going to live wondering 'what if', in chapter 5 Kakeru says something like even if he can't change the past, he'd be better with only erasing all his regrets, so I think that's basically what Naho and Suwa are doing. Also, for the record, the 'future timelime' doesn't change, so even if Kakeru lives, nothing would happen in the other timeline (meaning that Suwa and Nano would still be married and with their baby). jose21 said: BTW, did he ever mention in his letter that it may be painful for the past him to see then together, and if it did wouldn't it be painful for the future him and making him feel like the consolation prize?. Yeah, it does say that, but I think he also says that in the past he couldn't support Naho and Kakeru, and that's something he deeply regrets. It's kind of implied that one of the reasons why Kakeru didn't confessed to Naho was because he knew that Suwa was also in love with her. I think he does know that Naho is now happy with him and their baby, but he also knows how much she suffered when he died. Maybe in the 'new' timeline Naho is the one being selfish trying to save Kakeru and changing their future, and probably he understands that because in the 'future' timeline he was the one who was selfish, and that's something he wants to change. Sorry for writing so much, and I probably missed the point but well.... xD |
| @nyanperoona I just want to apologize beforehand, I know I am a bit annoying and rude by commenting on something I was too afraid to read. Having said said that: nyanperoona said: I don't think she wants to change the past so she can be with Kakeru. In the first chapter she says "to the me ten years in the past, there are a lot of happy and joyful things that are waiting for you", so I get the feeling that she's happy with her family. (Bold part) How did she know that if they are changing the future on that time line. Also, from what I understand on that new timeline they are trying to get her with Kakeru together, meaning she will happy with Kakeru, so I wouldn't apply that phrase to express how she feel in the future. nyanperoona said: //A lot of spoilers// The five of them have that regret and they all want to make Kakeru happy, it's been said that neither of them knew that he killed himself (they thought it was an accident), so I think it's normal to want to know at least what happened. Wait, so it is fine for him to be dead if it was an accident, but since it wasn't it is not fine. How is that not selfish? The dude wanted to die, let him rest in peace. I would understand saving somebody who wanted to live, not somebody who wanted to die. nyanperoona said: Also, for the record, the 'future timelime' doesn't change, so even if Kakeru lives, nothing would happen in the other timeline (meaning that Suwa and Nano would still be married and with their baby). I get that, I was just thinking that the whole situation may have created doubts on her husband that maybe she went out with him and ultimately end marrying him and having a child just cause the other dude died and he was the second option. But if she really just wanted to save him as a friend, I guess is fine. nyanperoona said: Maybe in the 'new' timeline Naho is the one being selfish trying to save Kakeru and changing their future, and probably he understands that because in the 'future' timeline he was the one who was selfish, and that's something he wants to change. Wait, so new timeline Naho is different from the future Naho and that's why she is the only selfish. Also, she is trying to save him only cause of the letter Future Naho sent, so wouldn't that make future Naho responsible as well. And finally, I actually think future Suwa is the complete opposite of being selfish, unless he knew that Kakeru didn't confessed to Naho for his sake before the accident/suicide. |
jose21Jan 10, 2014 9:15 AM
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| Forgetting about everything else (being cruel, selfish, too good,........) IMO if she ends up with Kakeru on this new timeline, I will find that ending just as unsatisfying as the VK ending where is not really clear who she ultimately really love, and it's more to the point of view of the readers to decide... |
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| That really just depends on whether you think it would be two different timelines or her going back into the same one. The minute something changes like her going back it's like an alternate time line so she might be married to the guy in one and back with Kakeru in another, it depends on how you look at it. The two different ways of looking at it change your perspective on the whole thing. If you look at it as the same timeline then she would loose one, if you look at it as two then now, but yes I see the comparisons to the VK ending in what you guys are saying too. oh no. |
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Xinception said: Eh I don't know. If the author's gonna develop the idea of time travel and parallel worlds, then I won't find it so cruel. Why? It's logic. You make both fan base, naho x Suwa and naho x kakeru, happy. Eh, that's just how I see it. I guess. I know its supposed to make both fan base happy, but remember what happened to VK were most fans from either side weren't happy at all. If she can succeed in what VK fail, then OK. |
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| Well I think that being with Suwa and being happy and still not wanting someone else you cared about to have died if you think you can prevent it are two different things. She probably wants him alive regardless of whether she will be "with" him. Cause they are trying to actaully change events from the past and her husband knows that too that's why I think they found a way to do that. But yeah I also did not like the ending of VK. |
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inzaratha said: Well I think that being with Suwa and being happy and still not wanting someone else you cared about to have died if you think you can prevent it are two different things. She probably wants him alive regardless of whether she will be "with" him. Cause they are trying to actaully change events from the past and her husband knows that too that's why I think they found a way to do that. What I really don't understand is what I mention before, the guy killed himself, he didn't want to live, so why not just let him rest in peace. To me is a bit selfish from them to try to change everything to the way they wanted. Also, if he kill himself, he obviously had mental problems, and he is bound to do it again regardless, unless they plan to supervise him for the rest of their lives. Also, what if they from the new timeline still not satisfied with the outcome, will they do everything again and start a new third time line (Then, it will be almost as what Yuno was doing in Mirai Nikki)? |
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| Just to clarify, I am not Suwa's fan, is just that if she ends up with Kakeru, it will be something similar to VK. |
jose21Jan 12, 2014 10:26 PM
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| One thing to remember is the scene when the open the time capsule. Suwa appears to be at least as upset about the fact that Kakeru didn't write any dreams for the future in his letter to himself. He is the one that asks if it was really an accident. I think that he is just as upset about the fact that one of his best friends killed himself without his knowing how much pain he was in. My bet is that the two of them decided together to write the letters, but we should find out before too long once the manga starts back up again. Oh, and @jose21 - there are only 9 chapters, you should probably just read it and see what you think after that. It is really kind of odd to make comments about something you only know second hand... It is really well written! Give it a shot! |
Now blogging at TheZenOf Mysterious Girlfriend X Anime Fan Club - It's about more than drool! Tari Tari Fan Club - Hyouka Fan Club - Chitanda Eru Fans Club~ |
zensunni said: One thing to remember is the scene when the open the time capsule. Suwa appears to be at least as upset about the fact that Kakeru didn't write any dreams for the future in his letter to himself. He is the one that asks if it was really an accident. I think that he is just as upset about the fact that one of his best friends killed himself without his knowing how much pain he was in. My bet is that the two of them decided together to write the letters, but we should find out before too long once the manga starts back up again. Oh, and @jose21 - there are only 9 chapters, you should probably just read it and see what you think after that. It is really kind of odd to make comments about something you only know second hand... It is really well written! Give it a shot! I know and I am sorry about that, but the problem is that when I start reading something I just cannot stop until I finish it even if I hate it, so I don't really want to start reading it only to find out later that just as I feared, I didn't like it. Anyway, you haven't really answer my question. Aren't they a bit selfish trying to change the future on that new timeline, so they won't have regrets? Why not let him rest in peace if he wanted to die? A suicidal person is bound to try it again, so are they planing to supervise him forever? Perhaps I got it wrong, but what really motivated them to save him was that they found out that he committed suicide, so that means if it was just an accident then they wouldn't have done anything? And finally, wouldn't the girl ending with Kakeru on the new timeline make it similar to VK, where is not really clear who she ultimately loved. Anyway, I don't doubt is well writing. The fat that there are too many people reading it, and the fact that after the hiatus they are still waiting for it, is prove of that, and caught my attention. Nonetheless, I still think is a bit cruel; I am not saying is bad. |
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jose21 said: Anyway, you haven't really answer my question. Aren't they a bit selfish trying to change the future on that new timeline, so they won't have regrets? Why not let him rest in peace if he wanted to die? A suicidal person is bound to try it again, so are they planing to supervise him forever? Perhaps I got it wrong, but what really motivated them to save him was that they found out that he committed suicide, so that means if it was just an accident then they wouldn't have done anything? I don't think they knew Kakeru was suicidal until they opened up that time capsule. They all knew that he was a bit on the strange side, but they didn't know about his mother's suicide or his suicidal thoughts... Maybe now that they know everything about it, they'll start sending more letters explaining the whole situation and hopefully figure out a happy medium. I agree that knowing that a person was suicidal and trying to bring them back is selfish, but knowing that there was something you could've done to prevent them from acting on it is even worse. In the end, it all comes down to opinions, I think (which both of us obviously have, haha). A suicidal person won't always be one in most cases. With the right support (*especially* from friends), Kakeru can probably have his happy ending. Oh yeah, I should've quoted that other guy up there, too, who said that because there are two different timelines both sides of the fanbase can be happy. If the NahoxKakeru fans are pleased in the end, we won't get to see the adorableness of a family like the NahoxSuwa fans get to see... |
luxraysrock said: jose21 said: Anyway, you haven't really answer my question. Aren't they a bit selfish trying to change the future on that new timeline, so they won't have regrets? Why not let him rest in peace if he wanted to die? A suicidal person is bound to try it again, so are they planing to supervise him forever? Perhaps I got it wrong, but what really motivated them to save him was that they found out that he committed suicide, so that means if it was just an accident then they wouldn't have done anything? I don't think they knew Kakeru was suicidal until they opened up that time capsule. They all knew that he was a bit on the strange side, but they didn't know about his mother's suicide or his suicidal thoughts... Maybe now that they know everything about it, they'll start sending more letters explaining the whole situation and hopefully figure out a happy medium. I agree that knowing that a person was suicidal and trying to bring them back is selfish, but knowing that there was something you could've done to prevent them from acting on it is even worse. In the end, it all comes down to opinions, I think (which both of us obviously have, haha). A suicidal person won't always be one in most cases. With the right support (*especially* from friends), Kakeru can probably have his happy ending. Oh yeah, I should've quoted that other guy up there, too, who said that because there are two different timelines both sides of the fanbase can be happy. If the NahoxKakeru fans are pleased in the end, we won't get to see the adorableness of a family like the NahoxSuwa fans get to see... I got all that, but again does that mean that, if it would have been just an accident, they were not gonna do anything? How is that everything is fine when it was accident, but not when it was a suicide? |
jose21Jan 14, 2014 4:24 PM
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Another VK ending incoming I can proudly say that I am reading it, but I still haven't changed my opinion. |
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| It's my 3rd time reading and crying while reading chapter 9 - and not in a row but like months apart and now I think that the future Suwa is purposefully giving her up to save Kakeru and make her happy. |
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| I think future-Naho is making an effort to prevent Kakeru's death because she regrets not being able to do so when she had the chance. I strongly believe that she's doing this as a friend and not because she's still in love with him. I'm pretty sure she's happy with Suwa in that timeline. It's only natural to feel sad when a close friend willingly decides to take his life. This means that he was in so much pain that he didn't see any other way out. Of course, Naho (and even Suwa) would want to alter the past if she could. More so since they realized that they never noticed what Kakeru was going through after his mother's death. I really like the premise of this manga. I can't wait to read the next chapter. |
inzaratha said: It's my 3rd time reading and crying while reading chapter 9 - and not in a row but like months apart and now I think that the future Suwa is purposefully giving her up to save Kakeru and make her happy. IMO if that were true that would just make it more sick and weird. Technically Future Suwa can't really give her up, can he? I mean, Kakeru will stay dead no matter what on that timeline, so he won't lose her at all in that timeline, worst thing that could happen to him is find out he is just a replacement. Also, wouldn't that be a bit selfish toward Suwa from the other dimension, I mean, because of his (Future Suwa) actions the only one that can lose Naho is Suwa from the other dimension. Just my opinion, but Future Suwa is an asshole. |
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| I always wanted to read this manga and now I started to read it because it's not on hiatus anymore. This manga is really great, but I can somehow understand when people call it cruel and I''m torn between Suwa and Kakeru. I was rooting for Kakeru and Naho in the first chapters, but I just can't really do it anymore. I know they are creating a parallel universe, but if Naho and Kakeru end up together it still feels like future Suwa had always been the second choice and that's really sad. I don't want Kakeru to die, but somehow I hope that he and Naho become a couple, but only for some time. If he and Naho are really the end game, then I hope Suwa falls in love with another girl because it's depressing if he's the one who will suffer his whole life because he can't forget Naho. I wish that Kakeru and Naho become a couple, make good memories, but break up after some time because they realize they are better suited as friends. It's not only because of Suwa that I somehow want an end like this. It would be great if Kakeru realizes that life is worth living even without Naho. I want all of his friends and the good memories he made with them to be the reason why he wants to live on and not only her. I hate the idea: 'life is only worth something because of only one person'. If Naho and Kakeru are the end game, I really hope it just happened because of the different circumstances, but not because future Naho wanted it to happen. I hope future Naho's regret is 'not being able to save Kakeru' and NOT 'not being able to save him AND be a couple'.' |
Ongaku008May 13, 2014 2:31 PM
| Days need to be longer. 24 hours isn't enough ... |
jose21 said: inzaratha said: It's my 3rd time reading and crying while reading chapter 9 - and not in a row but like months apart and now I think that the future Suwa is purposefully giving her up to save Kakeru and make her happy. IMO if that were true that would just make it more sick and weird. Technically Future Suwa can't really give her up, can he? I mean, Kakeru will stay dead no matter what on that timeline, so he won't lose her at all in that timeline, worst thing that could happen to him is find out he is just a replacement. Also, wouldn't that be a bit selfish toward Suwa from the other dimension, I mean, because of his (Future Suwa) actions the only one that can lose Naho is Suwa from the other dimension. Just my opinion, but Future Suwa is an asshole. Good point, and one that I was going to make. The people who sent the letters are perfectly aware that they are not going to do anything to their timeline. I think they are just trying to create a timeline in which their friend lives. As to the question of whether they are doing it just because it was suicide, I think that is the case. If it was an accident and you hold a "fatalistic" view of the world, it was "just his time." But most people view suicide as something that takes people "before their time". In other words, they view it as unnatural. (I personally don't believe this. I actually frequently think about how choices I make could result in a totally different time line, like every time I do something careless while driving and think, "if I hadn't noticed x, I might be dead... in some other reality, maybe I am..." I am actually writing a novel with that concept as part of the story... I really need to get back to it. I haven't written anything for months. :( ) Also, I don't agree with the supposition that suicidal people will just keep trying. In general, major depression, which is the cause of most suicide attempts, will go away for most people. Treatment would help, but even without treatment people usually get over depressive episodes with time. There are people who have chronic depression problems, but his cases really seems to be one triggered by the trauma of his mother's death. Given time and support from his friends, I expect he would get over it by the time they graduate from high school and no longer have suicidal thoughts. Might he have them again if he has another trauma? Sure! People who are prone to suicidal thoughts will have them. But with a proper support group that knows about your issues, you are much less likely to attempt suicide, let alone be successful. The key is that his friends were not aware of his suicidal thoughts because he has a tendency to keep things in. The fact that the Naho in the original time line never opened up to him and was never honest about her feelings is a huge difference. The fact that he knows that there is someone who holds him in such high regard could be all it takes to keep him from thinking about suicide. |
Now blogging at TheZenOf Mysterious Girlfriend X Anime Fan Club - It's about more than drool! Tari Tari Fan Club - Hyouka Fan Club - Chitanda Eru Fans Club~ |
| Wouldn't it be awesome if Suwa from the new timeline ends up killing himself cause of depression after losing Naho?.... Then Naho and Kakeru from the new timeline try to save him on a third new timeline......LOL I think it would be better if Kakeru dies no matter what, and future Suwa and Naho learn that they were a bit naughty (playing god in a way) interfering with the past. |
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| Well, loving someone first doesn't mean that person can't love someone else in the future, I don't find it cruel, that's how love is supposed to be, unpredictable. (tho I don't mean unpredictable like love at first sight, I don't believe in love at first sight) Suwa from the future knows that Naho would be dating Kakeru if he wouldn't have died, that's why his future self still acts like Kakeru was as important as him, like he even gave Kakeru's flowers to Naho as Kakeru himself would do, Suwa knows that Kakeru was important for Naho back when they were younger, that act just means that Suwa respects and loves Naho, her past and her present ("future present"), even if she loved other guy back then. That makes Suwa even more friend of his friends, I like that about him, his not the kind of people that hate everyone for little things, he's a good guy, he takes life like "life still continues". |
| Well I think those who have not read it should really give it a try. Naho is not a selfish bitch imo. I think that even if I was happy with another guy but really loved my ex-boyfriend who'd died I would at least try to save him no matter if I stayed with him with the other or alone. Even Suwa is trying to save Kakeru and Im sure he would try to save him regardless of Naho's existence since they were close friends. |
ワンダーランド花 ♥ |
Orulyon said: Well I think those who have not read it should really give it a try. Naho is not a selfish bitch imo. I think that even if I was happy with another guy but really loved my ex-boyfriend who'd died I would at least try to save him no matter if I stayed with him with the other or alone. Even Suwa is trying to save Kakeru and Im sure he would try to save him regardless of Naho's existence since they were close friends. I don't think anyone here is calling her a selfish bitch. I mean, there is no way she is, since Suwa is helping and pretty much everyone else is doing it as well. It is just as the discussion says, this manga is a bit cruel. I am not that annoyed that they are saving Kakeru, but the love triangle between those three make it a bit cruel and some other things. Some of the things I just cannot understand are: 1- It might be just me, but I got the impression that they decided to save him only cause they found out he kill himself. But why didn't they try when they thought it was an accident. If it would have been an accident, it would have meant, that his life was cut short and by all means, yeah try to save him, he might have had so many dreams about his future and whatever. But try rescuing him cause he kill himself, why???... I mean, they try to save the guy who didn't want to live, but if he would have wanted to live then whatever it was just fate..WTF...... 2- Love triangle, It is a bit cruel towards Suwa on both dimensions. If she ends up with Kakeru on the second time line, then wouldn't that mean that Suwa from the first dimension is just a replacement. And if that were to happen we basically have something similar to VK were the girl basically ends up with both the guys WTF..... Also, IMO having a baby with the replacement, not so cool. Sure, Kakeru died and she had to move on, but trying to save him even if it is in on a different time line, means that she has not move on and still loves him, which would mean she had a baby without love with the replacement WTF POOR BABY, who by the way will never exist on new time line. Also, yeah how cool, Suwa from first time line trying to save Kakeru, but does it really affect him if anything goes wrong?... Only one that can suffer from first time line Suwa's actions is Suwa from the second time line. How noble to tell other person to give up his love, cause even thought they are both Suwa, they are not because they are two different people. However if she ends up with Suwa on second dimension, it may make things a bit better since it may confirm that she really loves Suwa, but still this whole ordeal must be really painful until thing get resolved. 3- What about Kakeru, I wonder how will he react if he finds out that basically everything around him is just a facade. I am not so sure he will just go and say "thank you, you guys have been trying to make me happy, so I won't kill myself." |
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| "the manga is cruel" life is cruel and that's exactly why this manga hits home. it's really something that could happen in real life (of course, excluding the time traveling stuff) 1. I'm not sure if you understood that part correctly, you should probably re-read it. They wanted to save Kakeru ESPECIALLY because it was unlikely an accident. That means (obviously) they would have tried to save him either way. That it was an attempted suicide only made matters worse so to say. 2. Not going to answer that. I'll let you have your opinion ;) 3. If Kakeru has even the slightest bit of common sense he would understand how much his friends truly care for him. The thing is if they would just tell him directly everything it doesn't eliminate the possibility of him killing himself, it might even make matters worse since he'd be under a huge shock. I'm pretty sure they will tell him eventually or he will find it out eventually, but honestly if I place myself in his shoes.. If I'd be suicidal and my friends would do something like that to me, I wouldn't care the least about them not telling me. I'd be thankful as fuck to know such awesome people (especially Suwa is the true hero). |
Angel said: "the manga is cruel" life is cruel and that's exactly why this manga hits home. it's really something that could happen in real life (of course, excluding the time traveling stuff) 1. I'm not sure if you understood that part correctly, you should probably re-read it. They wanted to save Kakeru ESPECIALLY because it was unlikely an accident. That means (obviously) they would have tried to save him either way. That it was an attempted suicide only made matters worse so to say. 2. Not going to answer that. I'll let you have your opinion ;) 3. If Kakeru has even the slightest bit of common sense he would understand how much his friends truly care for him. The thing is if they would just tell him directly everything it doesn't eliminate the possibility of him killing himself, it might even make matters worse since he'd be under a huge shock. I'm pretty sure they will tell him eventually or he will find it out eventually, but honestly if I place myself in his shoes.. If I'd be suicidal and my friends would do something like that to me, I wouldn't care the least about them not telling me. I'd be thankful as fuck to know such awesome people (especially Suwa is the true hero). This is EXACTLY my thoughts. Finally some understanding ;u; |
jose21 said: Orulyon said: Well I think those who have not read it should really give it a try. Naho is not a selfish bitch imo. I think that even if I was happy with another guy but really loved my ex-boyfriend who'd died I would at least try to save him no matter if I stayed with him with the other or alone. Even Suwa is trying to save Kakeru and Im sure he would try to save him regardless of Naho's existence since they were close friends. I don't think anyone here is calling her a selfish bitch. I mean, there is no way she is, since Suwa is helping and pretty much everyone else is doing it as well. It is just as the discussion says, this manga is a bit cruel. I am not that annoyed that they are saving Kakeru, but the love triangle between those three make it a bit cruel and some other things. Some of the things I just cannot understand are: 1- It might be just me, but I got the impression that they decided to save him only cause they found out he kill himself. But why didn't they try when they thought it was an accident. If it would have been an accident, it would have meant, that his life was cut short and by all means, yeah try to save him, he might have had so many dreams about his future and whatever. But try rescuing him cause he kill himself, why???... I mean, they try to save the guy who didn't want to live, but if he would have wanted to live then whatever it was just fate..WTF...... 2- Love triangle, It is a bit cruel towards Suwa on both dimensions. If she ends up with Kakeru on the second time line, then wouldn't that mean that Suwa from the first dimension is just a replacement. And if that were to happen we basically have something similar to VK were the girl basically ends up with both the guys WTF..... Also, IMO having a baby with the replacement, not so cool. Sure, Kakeru died and she had to move on, but trying to save him even if it is in on a different time line, means that she has not move on and still loves him, which would mean she had a baby without love with the replacement WTF POOR BABY, who by the way will never exist on new time line. Also, yeah how cool, Suwa from first time line trying to save Kakeru, but does it really affect him if anything goes wrong?... Only one that can suffer from first time line Suwa's actions is Suwa from the second time line. How noble to tell other person to give up his love, cause even thought they are both Suwa, they are not because they are two different people. However if she ends up with Suwa on second dimension, it may make things a bit better since it may confirm that she really loves Suwa, but still this whole ordeal must be really painful until thing get resolved. 3- What about Kakeru, I wonder how will he react if he finds out that basically everything around him is just a facade. I am not so sure he will just go and say "thank you, you guys have been trying to make me happy, so I won't kill myself." 1- In the first chapters it was hinted that Kakeru committed suicide and it was not an acident....but then later it is hinted that it was an accident instead, so its unclear. What this suggests to me is that Kakeru is destined to die one way or another...(aka they might prevent him from suicide but he might come to die in an accident). Lets hope I'm wrong. 2-I agree with you that a love triangle like this sucks. Also dont even remind me of VK's end...I even got sick when I read it (one of the worst endings, but somehow I understood it because both male leads were extremely popular (unlike the majority of manga where one clearly "wins" over the other lead) so she pulled that ending to please both sides). Anyway regarding of what you say...yes it is a cruel love triangle, specially for me who has been a Suwa shipper from the very beggining (I love underdogs). Still I love them all and I just want Naho to be true to her feelings...I wouldnt want a Naho choosing Suwa just because Kakeru died. I'd rather see Suwa alone than being the second choice like he was on the other timeline...even though she clearly fell in love with him and had a baby it was not really a choice because Kakeru was dead. Anyway Ill be content as long everyone gets their happy end. 3-As for what you said "3- What about Kakeru, I wonder how will he react if he finds out that basically everything around him is just a facade. I am not so sure he will just go and say "thank you, you guys have been trying to make me happy, so I won't kill myself." I don't agree...I mean put yourself in their shoes...Even when no one knew about the letters they loved Kakeru dearly they didnt just displayed openly their love for him...and that sometimes leads to people thinking they are "not needed" to people who love them. I mean yes might be lame but if you like someone why not tell him/her, or remind her/him of that? You never know when lifes turns around and you might be dead or that person might die without ever knowing. They were not forcing themselves doing stuff they didnt want to or loving him forcefully...they were just showing their affection and yes why not prevent his death if they have that possibility? I know its selfish to want a person to live when that person wishes to die, its very selfish of us to keep wanting to see and talk and live with that person...but then this kind of selfish is the only one IMO that can be seen as positive somehow instead of negative. This is my opinion ofc...but every is entitled to theirs... |
OrulyonJan 25, 2015 10:53 AM
ワンダーランド花 ♥ |
| Honestly, this bothered me so much that I couldn't enjoy this series AT ALL, so far. I mean, they have a freaking son togheter. I get that they have regrets, but really, are those regrets enough to sacrifice the existence of your own son? Is there any sane parent in the world who thinks that "future would be better if my kid was never born"? Naho said that even if Kakeru hasn't died she would still marry Suwa, so she is forgiven, but Suwa's actions are ridiculous, absurdely idiotic and extremely unrealistic, both the past and future one's. People say that Kakeru need professional help, but Suwa is almost as suicidal as the guy with his unbreakable selfnessness. I ****ing hope that he dies alone and regretful, the bloody idiot. Sure it won't happen, I actually think he and Naho will magically end up togheter in the end game or he will be relegated to the second plan but be content with that (since he's apparently Jesus Christ reborned in our modern world) , but still, one can hope... He kinda reminds me of Shirou from Fate/ Stay Night, except that Shirou has his past to justify his completely lack of survival instincts and selfishness. The fact that people casually accept a character as badly written as him is beyond me. |
Homura_ said: It would have been better for Suwa to end up with someone else. How so? He has a son and seem happily married in the future, even with all the scars and regrets. |
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