 Well, you get the idea. If there's a title in the club's anime/manga relations which you think shouldn't be there, bring it up here. Basically, this thread is for keeping count of the votes for and against against the inclusion titles in the lists. - Titles which are already in the list have 1 vote for them by default to represent the person who nominated them in the first place. - The requirement for something to be booted out or thrown back in is 50% + 1 vote (i.e. majority). - A 50-50 turnout results in no change (i.e. if it's there, it stays there, and vice-versa). - To make things clearer and easier to keep track of, please state the following in your post: 1) the title of the story 2) if you're referring to the anime, manga, or both 3) your position (keep or kick) 4) your explanation ----------==========---------- Here's a sample scenario: |
YuunagiFeb 17, 2009 4:18 PM
| Tally-ho. Here be the anime and manga which are brought into question. Anime: Ah! My Goddess [2:2] (currently out) Azumanga Daioh [3:2] Azumanga Daioh - The Very Short Movie [3:2] Azumanga Web Daioh [3:2] Casshern SINS [3:2] Chobits [3:3] Chobits (OAV) [3:3] Clannad (series) [1:4] Clannad (movie) [1:3] Death Note [3:4] Elfen Lied [3:2] [/color] Elfen Lied OAV[2:2] (currently out) Higurashi no Naku Koro ni [1:3] Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai [1:3] Ichigo Mashimaro episode 0 [3:3] (currently in) Ichigo Mashimaro (series) [3:3] (currently in) Ichigo Mashimaro (OAV) [3:3] (currently in) Ichigo Mashimaro Encore [3:3] (currently in) Kanon (2002) [2:3] Kanon (2006) [2:4] Kyou no Go no Ni (anime) [2:4] Kyou no Go no Ni (OAV) [2:3] Lucky Star [1:4] Lucky ☆ Star OVA [1:4] Minami-ke [3:1] Minami-ke Okawari [3:1] Pani Poni Dash! [1:3] Princess Mononoke [2:1] The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya [1:1] (currently in) Witch Hunter Robin [2:2] (currently out) xxxHolic [3:2] xxxHOLiC – Kei [3:2] xxxHOLiC - Manatsu no Yoru no Yume [3:2] Manga: Ah! My Goddess [4:2] Azumanga Daioh [3:1] Chobits [4:2] Clannad [0:1] Death Note [2:5] Elfen Lied [1:2] Ichigo Mashimaro [2:2] (currently in) Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (several arcs and Kai) [1:3] Kanon [0:1] Kyou no Go no Ni [4:1] Lucky Star [1:4] Minami-ke [4:1] Pani Poni [1:3] xxxHolic [4:2] Incidentally, this is my 666th post. |
YuunagiMay 10, 2009 1:13 AM
| Titles: Clannad (TV & movie) and Kanon (both) - anime I think the Clannad and Kanon anime should be removed. Granted, the games they came from have optional "adult" material, the anime themselves seem aimed at a younger, teenage audience rather than adults. While I found them to be enjoyable, especially Kanon 2k6, I didn't think that they at any time struck me as deep/profound/mature in theme or characterization. |
kasumisamaFeb 18, 2009 5:38 PM
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| Titles which I don't feel are particularly adult oriented: Ah! My Goddess (all) Azumanga Daioh Casshern Sins Chobits Clannad (I wouldn't object to After Story, though) Death Note Elfen Lied Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Ichigo Mashimaro Kanon (2006) Kyou no Go no Ni (whoever nominated this...) Lucky Star Minami-ke and Okawari Pani Poni Dash! Princess Mononoke Witch Hunter Robin xxxHolic That's out of the ones I've seen, anyway. I doubt things like Saikano and Romeo x Juliet deserve to be here. And my opinion is very biased, yes. Purge! |
| Ah My Goddess (I'll be talking about the manga especially) is about adults, and most definitely aimed at an adult audience. Keiichi and Belldandy's relationship isn't exactly "adult" but it's not childish either. It's a laid back slice of life comedy with a dash of drama that kids really wouldn't appreciate fully, and it really does have a lot of nostalgic undertones (and sometimes overt scenes - Urd's return to childhood and first love is a good example) that younger readers wouldn't necessary understand. Definitely keep AMG, at least the manga. Actually I think AMG is similar in spirit to Genshiken. Not everyone is mature all the time, and sometimes things get downright silly, but the mangas are definitely presented from an adult perspective. All these are also aimed squarely at adults looking for a funny and nostalgic view of childhood and should be keepers: Azumanga Ichigo Mashimaro (anime, didn't read the manga) Kyou no Go no Ni (manga especially) Minami-ke OTOH, I'm 100% for removing these: Death Note Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Typical shounen tropes, now with more murder. Especially Higu, which is incredibly immature. Ugh, they defeated failvillain with the power of friendship, of all the nonsense endings they could pull. xxxHolic (all anime) are also "faux-mature" IMO and should be removed. It tries really hard to be deep and thoughtful, but it never actually gets there. |
kasumisamaFeb 18, 2009 10:14 PM
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| AMG is seinen anyway, so that's definitely the target. I'm not sure if it belongs here though, as it's a pretty "low" seinen, if you will. I'd vote to take off Death Note, Clannad, Kanon and Witch Hunter Robin. I think the comedy shows use some humor that typically requires a more mature audience to fully comprehend- there's a reason why they're almost universally serialized in magazines catering to a more mature audience, with one or two exceptions. Neutral on the rest except Casshern and xxxholic- those should stay, some distinctly mature themes and unique stylization. I also feel that Mononoke isn't particularly more or less mature than most of the other films Miyazaki has directed, so maybe there should be a universal stance either way. Just my 0.02$. To summarize: Title - Vote: Death Note Kick Clannad Kick Kanon Kick Witch Hunter Robin Kick Casshern SINS Keep xxxHolic Keep |
| 世界は美しくなんかない。 そしてそれ故に、美しい |
kasumisama said: Actually I think AMG is similar in spirit to Genshiken. Not everyone is mature all the time, and sometimes things get downright silly, but the mangas are definitely presented from an adult perspective. Genshiken is borderline for me, as well. I wouldn't object to it being knocked off, but I'm not going to nominate it to be booted. And I don't know about the Ah! My Goddess manga, but the anime was downright childish. |
| That's why I emphasized manga, which is very much superior. |
|
kasumisama said: Seconded, though I'd also like to keep the Ichigo Mashimaro manga and limit myself to the manga of Minami-ke since I havent finished the anime yet. Also...All these are also aimed squarely at adults looking for a funny and nostalgic view of childhood and should be keepers: Azumanga Ichigo Mashimaro (anime, didn't read the manga) Kyou no Go no Ni (manga) Minami-ke Elfen Lied (anime and manga) - kick Btw, I'm making a few assumptions here. Spin-offs and sequels will be receiving the same vote intended for their parent story unless explicitly specified. For example, if somebody mentions just "Minami-ke" or "Higurashi no Naku Koro ni", I'll assume that you're referring to the manga as well as seasons 1 & 2 of the anime and their spin-offs. Man, making lists like this isn't as cool as they make it appear to be.  |
YuunagiFeb 19, 2009 5:58 AM
| Only Anime: Casshern Sins > Keep Death Note > Keep Kanon > Keep Chobits > Kick Ah! My Goddess > Kick |
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| Anime Chobits > Keep Death Note > Keep Pani Poni Dash! > Kick Witch Hunter Robin > Keep Lucky Star > Kick Manga Chobits > Keep Death Note > Keep Lucky Star > Kick Pani Poni > Kick |
| Keep: Mangas serialised in "Young Magazine" (Seinen) Chobits Kyou no Go no Ni Minami-ke xxxHolic related Anime: Chobits Chobits (OAV) Kyou no Go no Ni (anime) Kyou no Go no Ni (OAV) Minami-ke Minami-ke Okawari xxxHolic xxxHOLiC – Kei xxxHOLiC - Manatsu no Yoru no Yume Mangas serialised in "Afternoon" (Seinen) Ah! My Goddess related Anime: Ah! My Goddess Mangas serialised in "Young Jump" (Seinen) Elfen Lied related Anime Elfen Lied Elfen Lied OAV -- Kick: Mangas serialised in "GFantasy" (shounen) Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Pani Poni related Anime Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai Pani Poni Dash! Mangas serialised in "Dengeki Daioh" (shounen) Azumanga Daioh Ichigo Mashimaro Kanon related Anime Azumanga Daioh Azumanga Daioh - The Very Short Movie Azumanga Web Daioh Ichigo Mashimaro episode 0 Ichigo Mashimaro (series) Ichigo Mashimaro (OAV) Ichigo Mashimaro Encore Kanon (2002) Kanon (2006) Mangas serialised in "Shounen Jump" (shounen) Death Note related Anime Death Note Mangas serialised in "Comic Rush" (shounen) Clannad related Anime Clannad (series) Clannad (movie) other shounen Manga Lucky Star related Anime Lucky Star Lucky ☆ Star OVA other shounen Anime Casshern SINS --- undetermined: Princess Mononoke Witch Hunter Robin |
| Manga Keep: Ah! My Goddess Chobits xxxHolic Kick: Lucky Star Death Note Anime Keep: Elfen Lied Kick: Chobits Chobits (OAV) Kyou no Go no Ni (anime) Lucky Star Lucky ☆ Star OVA Other than that I'm uncertain so that's all for the time being. Reasons? Mainly, for manga it's either magazine or content, for anime just overall estimation. Most of it was already mentioned. |
Ii tenki desu ne... |
| Kyou nmo Go no Ni needs booted for sure. Yes, it's seinen, in that it's aimed at older boys. But it's mostly fanservice and ecchi humor. |
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| oh, this is a very good idea, I have a few which I think should not be in the relations and I think I'm going to get angry responses for these but all well. KICK: Chobits (manga, anime) -sigh. the only mature thing about this is the nudity. a real disappointment. Gift~eternal rainbow~(anime) -haven't watched this but I've heard enough about it to know it's just another harem type anime >__> Kyou no go no ni(anime) -same reason as above ichigo mashimaro(anime) -this is not a mature anime at all and don't think I'm being unfair because I think Aria could (and should) be considered mature , but not this and lucky star. the melancholy of haruhi suzumi(anime) -same as above Ah! My Goddess (manga) -not only is this manga boring, but it's a walking archetype and borderline harem. >__> -yes I think harem type manga and anime are not mature but rather immature and my kick list reflects that. But I'm glad to see most of the worst offenders are already off the relations :) KEEP: Princess Mononoke (anime) -I can't believe anyone would want to kick this out T__________T |
 |
| Just accept that seinens aren't only grave, psychological/horror mindfuc*ers. It's not genre but demographic and it's obvious there are also ecchi, comedy, romance etc. ones. I think there should be different kinds of series in relations as long as it's seinen. |
Ii tenki desu ne... |
| I kind of thought that a huge point of this group was to separate the wheat from the chaff. In other words, I think some of us (including myself) see harem, ecchi, and just about anything else that blatantly panders to the otaku sort as being typical crap and shouldn't be placed on the club lists considering that many of these works don't seem to fit the club's description. It seems as we as a whole are still a bit up in the air of rather deciding on whether we should things based on genre or on demographic. |
  |
| KICK clannad(tv) elfen lied (tv) - seriously, there were just gore violence,nothing more. unrealistic, naive behaviour of characters,stupid dialogues.. KEEP minami-ke (1.season, i havent watched sequels) imo its a seinen parody of stereotypical romance animes.i think that younger watchers wouldnt laugh at those absurd situations. |
| Oh! My Goddess [manga] - kick As for the intended audience, I have no idea - but I read this when I was eleven or ten and I didn't feel like it was too grown-up for me or that there were topics that I didn't understand. However, that's not really an argument I would kick it because the way I understand the term "seinen", it is a manga that makes you think or question. I don't find anything thought-provoking in OMG. Azumanga Daioh [anime] - kick Almost same as above - except it's a comedy. I watched the anime only recently, but I still found that teenagers would have no trouble whatsoever to understand it. Also, neither story nor characters are really... well-developed or 'profound', for that matter. Elfen Lied [anime] - keep This one's a borderline case. Yes, it does include a considerable amount of violence and fanservice, and especially the ladder is pretty 'low' in standards in my opinion. However, there are some controverse themes dealth with that I would say justify the classification as "seinen" [or "josei", whatever]. The characters and relations seem to be rather well-developed as well, so I would vote for "keep" in that case. P.S. Those statements don't really have anything to do with my general opinion of the mentioned series, as I like all three of them. I rather tried to base them on the club's description [which is the reason I joined, after all]. |
| "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything." - Tyler Durden, Fight Club |
| Keep: Princess Mononoke. Kick: Death Note. |
 |
| someone, anyone, please kick melancholy of haruhi suzumiya out. It cannot be seinen anyway you look at it. Content (pure entertainment, it says nothing interesting about any topic) or demographics ( Anime has a PG-13 rating and the manga adaptation ran in Shounen Ace). Nothing against Haruhi, it is just not seinen any way you look at it. Also, I do not think all seinen & josei are "grave psychological/horror mindf*uckers". Seinen & Josei can be manga that focus on romance/love, so long as the portrayal isn't simple and stereotypical. OMG! has one of the most stereotypical and immature love stories I have ever come across; demographics aside, content-wise it cannot be seinen. An example of a manga focused upon the theme of love that can be classified as 'mature' is Claudine...! (incidentally, demographically this is shoujo) and Deep Love Ayu. Eh. whatever. I just wanted to defend my choice. In the end it doesn't matter, because votes are what will move an anime/manga out of the relations. ah, I also noticed Ayashi no Ceres anime in the relations. I would like to kick it out. -Romance is awfully stereotypical. It has a really good story, but there is nothing that I think would warrant it a josei label. Sorry, sex scenes aren't enough for me, nor is a slightly dark story. |
soaring_wingsNov 10, 2009 1:41 PM
| |
| Onagai Teacher and Onegai Twins. |
| A past can last a lifetime. How to Read Manga! | AnimeBytes | iMangaScans |
| Title: Onegai Teacher Vote: to be removed Why not? I haven't watched Onegai Twins yet and I doubt I will ever do as I'm told it's pretty similar with Onegai Teacher. Not that it was bad, but the fact that I watched it as an adult didn't helped either. If I had watched it in my teens I probably would have enjoyed it more and also if I would never have watched Maison Ikkoku I would even consider it as a good story. Basically who suggested it in the first place didn't knew the border between adult orientated stories (and we are not talking about hentai here of course), and juvenile stories which are mostly directed to teens. So, Onegai Teacher must be removed from the list. Cheers, Rob. |
| I'd like to vouch for Casshern Sins. Although it does have its share of shounen style action sequences, a major aspect of the story is the philosophical, particularly existential questions it raises. I think older or more mature viewers can appreciate this. Also the style is pretty retro, it references the original show, but is not ironic about it. It has a subtlety and sophistication that I think is targeted for older audiences. |
| Kick (Anime): Chobits Chobits (OAV) Clannad (series) Clannad (movie) Death Note Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai Kanon (2002) Kanon (2006) Lucky Star Lucky ☆ Star OVA The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya xxxHolic xxxHOLiC – Kei xxxHOLiC - Manatsu no Yoru no Yume Kick (Manga): Chobits Clannad Death Note Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (several arcs and Kai) Kanon Lucky Star xxxHolic |
 ジリティック♡BEGINNER |
| Kick List: Blood+: I don't see how random monster killing scenes could ever be classified as something an adult would watch (and enjoy). Elfen Lied: This one is the most ridiculous anime I've ever watched, and it was clearly made for children who can be entertained merely by disgusting moeness and ecchi content, and no, not even those plot unrelated gore scenes should be taken as an adult factor. Jigoku Shoujo and Jigoku Shoujo Futakomori: Showing people f*cking other people around shoudn't qualify these ones as seinen, since it's something anyone who's over 10 yo sees pretty much everyday, it's just normal, only a child would be impressed by it. Onegai Twins and Onegai Twins OVA: Do I really have to comment? These are ecchi, harem, comedy, anything but seinen or josei. |
| 90% of Anime is shit, but then, 90% of everything is shit. |
| Haruhi Suzumiya shouldn't be on the list, I saw the club description and Haruhi Suzumiya doesn't qualify as a seinen/josei title as it has stereotypical characters and meaningless situations such as Haruhi's constant exploitations of Mikuru, and I think the target audience is mainly for teenagers and the series never goes into adult-oriented topics such as intimacy, responsibility, discussions of deciding one's future in a career/higher education, and other such things seen in a seinen/josei title. |
| Anime: Ah! My Goddess: Kick It's been quite awhile, but I seem to recall the anime as being pretty watered down compared to the manga. Blood+: Keep The manga struck me as a lot more shounen, though. Chobits: Keep Cutesy and comedic elements aside, it's really an antithetical look at the idea of the uncanny valley that's swimming in philosophical subtext. Death Note: Kick It's built mostly around plot twists, but character development and interaction is about as deep and believable as stuff like Code Geass, and thematically, what you see is what you get. Elfen Lied: Keep Transhumanism, alienation, psychological trauma, and the nature of self plays a huge role, and I don't think the average teen is likely to see beyond the obvious violence and nudity. Princess Mononoke: Kick Some mature themes, but the overall handling of those themes is fairly superficial. Like a lot of Pixar films, it includes elements that will appeal more to adults, but is still directed at a broad audience of kids and adults. Manga: Ah! My Goddess: Keep - It's been too long since I last read it, but I'm inclined to go with my vague memories and it being published in Afternoon. Also, I haven't seen much of it, but I thought the Trigun anime was considered shounen? From the few episodes I saw, it seemed closer to stuff like Gurren Lagann than any seinen I've seen. |
| Ah! My Goddess (all) Kick. While it does have young adults as main leads, everything else about it is childish, and only becomes more so as the series progress. Azumanga Daioh Keep. It's a school comedy, definitively not S/J, but still funny enough to be appreciated by older audiences, especially those with kids of their own. Casshern SINS Keep. Chobits (all) Kick. CLAMP should have stuck to pure shoujo. In this case, they tried to attract a male audience, but thought all they'd need to do was to add moe and nudity; the result is a hybrid that objectifies and offends women and is too sugary for men - a fail! Death Note Kick. Better yet, kick hard right in the rear eye. Elfen Lied (all) Kick. Plain nudity and violence wrapped in a vestigial drama. Even the "mature" violence is actually toned down, with surgical cuts that splash blood all over, but no real gore. Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (all) Kick. it's just "mature", as in opposed to mature. Princess Mononoke Keep. More than an anime, it's an animated film, and a good one. xxxHolic (all) Keep. Almost a shoujo, but with frequent more mature moments. |
| My favorite genres: good Quality, better Quality, best Quality, Über-Quality. Scoring criteria: Existence does not precede Essence. Current status: OFFLINE. Even if not really. I have no Facebook, no Tweeter and no latest fashionable social network. Mail me only if you absolutely must, and I still won't promise to answer: the postman might have been shot by an automated sentry, blown up by a mine, eaten by a shark, or something. |
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