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When i joined this club, I noticed a lot people bashing dubs over and over again (well, i expected it to be that way, but still...) how they suck a lot. Whether it's for no real reason or some trivial one.

Today I'll try to be Devil's advocate and protect dubs (and bash 'em too a little). So let's get started:

1.
Some say that:
Dubs suck because they change some words/phrases completely.

I say:
If it is trivial and purpose of it was not to make conversation so monotonous, then i don't see nothing bad, IMO. What would you prefer: to hear 100 times "I won't forgive you" or mix of "I'll remember it", "You'll pay for this" ...?
If it was made due to lip sync, well, thats bad. You can blame script writer that he don't know enough words.
If it was made due to localization/censorship, then DUBS SUCK!!!!!

2.
Most of you say that:
Dubs suck because voice tones don't match of their japanese counterparts.

I say:
Duh, of course they are different.
First, different VA voiced characters than in japanese versions so don't expect same effect.
Second, language itself, accent and word structure means a lot. You can't expect phrase said in German to be as beautiful and assonant as it would be said in French. Neither you'd like t hear russian guy trying to speak in English with awful accent, or would you? And as i said, word structure in (for example) English is different than in Japanese. Japanese words have more consonants than their English counterparts (in most cases) so it's easier to express emotions.
Example: say out loud "tatakai" and "fight" or "shine" and "die", which souds more threatening?
And also you normaly will talk louder in Japanese than in English because of word structure, so VAs got to match that too.

3.
A lot say that:
Dubs (this goes for all languages) suck because conversations are changed. Also sometimes when characters talk, lip sync is crap.

I say:
Yea, scrip is changed because sentences in [insert language] aren't same lenght as those in japanese, so they have to add or remove some content and/or use words/phrases that are shorter/longer, but don't really mean what they should to mach lip movements. Alose the lip sync. It was made to mach japanese so it's matter of scrips in other languages if they'll sync or not.

4.
Some say that:
Omagod, Japanese is so kewl kawaii desu, all other languages are shit! jap rulz!!!!

I say:
"Foreign things are cool, but meaningless" - some guy in the internet.
Keep in mind that who don't respect others, neither is respected himself. If you think that one race/culture/whatever is supreme because they got cool cartoons (you may insert other stuff instead), then you know nothing about the world (neither do I).

5.
People say:
I simple don't like dubs.

I say:
Me neither. I don't like to have something from second hands. So I prefer to watch anime/movies in their original language with subs.


Did i forget something?

Feel free to object all what's stated above, but at least give a good reason.

cba to write a long answer, I'll just make it short and keep it at: "original simply just sound a lot better"

agreed..^^

Thats the main point, but I'm a bit tired of seeing how people bash dubs for trivial reasons. Even if dub is quite good comparing to others most still scream "omg, worst evar!!!" as it would be law of nature without evaluation of endeavour of voicing crew.
You can't expect dubs to be perfect.

I sometimes wonder, is it "The I Only Watch Subtitled Anime Club" or "The We troll dubs whenever we can club".

I don't consider myself one of those kind of people. I don't care what others watch as long as I can watch my subs. The Original is always the best for me when it comes to anime.

Well, i just joined this club and all i have to say is that i prefer the subtitles MOST of the time. The original way does seem better to me, including the dialog. However, with some animes, they do a decently good job at dubbing. Sometimes, with me, it also depends on which way i saw it as first.

I concur with Noble. We don't look as good when people just repeat the same basic "dubs suck!!1!!!" thing without really bothering to explain why. The best way to support subs is to give any one of the substantial reasons for sub superiority. For me, it's mainly an issue of Japanese-specific jokes which don't translate well (i.e. "Knife naifuu").

You missed:

"Voice acting on dubs sucks vs. the original Japanese voice acting"

which you see quite often. I agree with it, based on my limited experience; however, given that my experience has not been good, I have no interest in expanding it. However, many are very quick to defend the quality of dub voice acting generally, but I really don't think this is a sensible or valid argument.

My rationale: I grew up listening to BBC radio 4 here in the UK. Radio 4 broadcasts several radio plays every day, often using very good, well known theatre, TV and film actors. I have heard thousands of these plays; they're not always good, in fact some are dreadful. However, I can say that I have gotten a pretty good idea of what constitutes good voice acting and what does not. Granted, voice acting for animation is a pretty different gig from voice acting for radio drama, but it shares much as well - you have to be able to impart feelings, emotions, attitudes entirely with the sound of the voice.

I've not seen a lot of dubs, I'll admit it. None I've ever seen was anything like good by the standards I've come to expect from radio plays. Ghibli dubs, using hollywood actors, are a little better, but not quite what they should be.

Voice acting for games is perhaps more similar - generally, anime dubs seem like they're around the standard of average game voice acting to me. I've played many games, and usually voice acting is not what I'd call good. However, I can accept that, because in the case of games, or rather the kind of games I play, voice acting is not a very significant part of the game, it's more like garnish that is really nice if done well, but if done badly it doesn't really affect the game that much (when I play RPGs, which is rarely, it's much more important; there's been more than one that I've abandoned because I hated the atmosphere and characters, and the voice acting is a major part of that).

I am willing to endure cutscenes with grating, hammy and generally substandard acting in order for a game's storyline to make sense, but it is not a pleasant experience. If the story is uninteresting or I've already seen them, I'll skip them if I can. Dubbed anime, looked at in similar terms, becomes nothing but grating, hammy and generally substandard cutscenes that beg to be skipped.

I'm sure that good dubs exist, and I might even enjoy them; but I'm not willing to trawl through the vast majority of hatefully substandard dubs to find them. Also, some dubs I've seen, hated and consider archetypes of how not to dub (Azumanga, I'm looking at you) have been held up as paragons of good dubbing (it won an award. I'm still having difficulty believing that), so I'm reluctant to trust the tastes of others.

I prefer watching the subtitles then watching dubbed versions with the exception of Kodocha and Fruits Basket. I started watching Fruits Basket English as well as watching Kodocha English so I prefer those. But screw the rest of the dubbed animes.

*nods*

Main reason i dislike dubs is cause of the "fake" tone english voiceactors have when they place overreacting remarks or simular things... it just doesnt sound natural, making the dubbed versions worse to watch.

For me I prefer subs for a couple of reasons. The first is that I love the sound of the japanese language. The second is because the emotions are never properly matched with a dub.

The way that the japanese language sounds with the anime is so much more natural for me than English. Sometimes dubbed in any other language it might sound good, but as soon as it's in english anime loses alot of it's appeal to me. When I see an anime in english I generally start to think of it less as a piece of art and more like a cartoon. The problem is, that when the dubbers are choosing people for voice actors they generally tend to think more of cartoonizing the anime instead of keeping it relevant.

The emotion....watch a dub and tell me that the emotions are the same. Tell me that the subtleties are still there, tell me that the english voice actors put as much effort into acting as the seiyus. I hate the feel of dubs, and I don't think it's because actors can't manipulate the english language like the japanese one. That's a flimsy excuse that really falls flat. Watch a movie with actors in it...good actors. Alot of videogames have great voice actors who can portray subtleties very well. The problem is that most people don't care as much about the anime as they do about some videogame.

I don't say "screw all subs" but I do feel that what they do to anime is absolutely horrible. It takes something that's a piece of art, and ruins it. I have friends who watch anime in English, and I can tell with 100% honesty that they view anime as a step above cartoons, like comparing graphic novels to comics. For that reason I try as hard as I can to never watch dubs unless I have no other choice.

I enjoyed reading this post :) Debates and thoughts, to me, are better than blind dislike.

I think a lot of what it comes down to with dubs and subs is how you original watch it. For example, HiroxKisa said she liked the Fruits Basket dub. I watched it initially in Japanese, and when I stumbled across it in English, my response was "what did you do to my poor FB TT.TT" I watched Escaflowne in English, and even though I went back and watched it in Japanese once I got back into anime, I'm not going to lie - there were times I heard the English actors in my head.

It's like when singers make different versions of the same song - if you've heard one way and grown to like (or love it) that way, when you hear the other version, you may consent that "it's okay" but you're going to be inclined to the version you grew to love in the first place.

However, for my preference? I prefer to watch the subs, for two reasons:
1) I prefer things in their original form. It's no different than I would prefer to watch a French movie in French.
2) It's what the companies do to the dubs that I hate more than the voice acting! Come on, cutting out onigiri and replacing them with sandwiches in Pokemon (obviously, I didn't realize as a child, but when I read that recently, I was shocked!). Cutting out scenes, and worse, rearranging them to make entirely different episodes? Changing OP and ED, and background music? Granted they don't do it as much anymore, but to be on the safe side, it's the original for me.

The "English is a non-expressive language" comments above made me think of something my Omi used to always say: "French is for romance, Italian is for poetry, German is for giving orders (or getting things done) ... and English is for the geese" (ie: honk honk is how we sound, haha).

I liked to emphasize this point. I entered this debatte from the foreign film point of view, looking at something you would like to call an art work (and i do consider some anime to be on that level). you have to agree that the soundtrack especially the voices are an integral part of the work. Viewing a dub is at best a variation on an original artwork (often it's an outrage to the artist). Now i consider the specific flow and melodie of the japanese language to be an integral part of my enjoyment when viewing a japanese anime. To dub it is as pointless to me as to try to dub an opera, and as far as i know people in opera have no problem what so ever with subtitle (for a very good reason).

Why Japanese dub is much better ? They have created thousands of anime in many years. Voice actors have enormous experience compared to americans. In japan those actors are treated like celebrities, they have even schools for voice acting in there.
When I watched dubbed anime for the first time I said: what the hell ? It sounds like created by some amateurs in a garage and with bad equipment.
Even when they have a high budget like for Ghibi studio animes, people who dub it are mostly normal actors. Which is still worser than dubs from japanese professionals.

Hmmm, formula explains everything:

Voice acting = acting (overall) - body acting

In other words, voice actors have one step less to learn in their acting career.
And there's at least few acting schools in every country, not to mention USA where's plenty of 'em.



You could have mentioned that animu (yes, thats typo, yes, i like to pronounce it that way).



If you call it that way, I assume, that you haven't heard how amateurs really record awful stuff with lousy equipment. Though, you may find good examples on Youbube.

......
You know, i could pick on every sentence you've wrote. They are wrong and biased. I'm just too tired for that...

It seems to me that you just admire every good point of Japanesse animu industry and decline to see that USA animu companies have something good too.

TIP: try to observe everything with objective eye rather than subjective. Who knows, you may find something interesting even there where you didn't expect to find.

That's actually backwards. Remove all the visual side of acting, and the job instantly becomes much harder - you have to be able to express as much through sound alone as stage or screen actors do with their sounds, expressions and movements. The same sort of thing is true with Noh or classical Greek theatre, where actors wear masks - they have to compensate for the inability to use facial expressions through sound and movement. It's also exactly like the difference between prose and verse - verse poetry is harder to write well than prose because there are further restrictions placed on the writer. For exactly the same reasons, it's harder to be a basically convincing voice actor than it is to be a basically convincing stage or screen actor.

In the case of dubs, the dub voice actors also have to time their speech according to a completely different language with a completely different structure. The structural difference between English and Japanese is such that Japanese sentences often must wait until they are finished before their complete meaning is revealed, while English is easier to guess. Practically, this means that often the reaction of the characters is natural for someone comprehending a sentence with Japanese structure, but when dubbed into English it sometimes looks forced and as if the reaction is unnaturally delayed, however good or otherwise the voice acting standard. So, it's not surprising to me at all that many people find dub actors lacking; the very structure of the source material is against them.



Please, explain this. I keep seeing this around and I don't get it. It's like if I went into a bakery and asked for a loaf of breap - it's clearly wrong, and however much you might like it like that, it doesn't make "your way" any more legitimate. How do you get "Animu" from ア(a) 二(ni) メ(me)? Or is this a non-English language thing?

The first part was already answered by YourMessageHere and I agree with it. For comparison what is easier write a book, or create a movie ?
So in USA they have a few schools (acually I thought there wasn't), but who goes there ? Certainly not people who will try hard to be great in voice acting, it's just another job like store clerk or phone seller.
However in Japan voice actors are celebrities and they have big competition, so they try to be exceptional in their job.

I'm not sure myself what it was, the thing is that I have this feeling with every american dub. Like Ranma 1/2 or Inuyasha.


I know what you mean, and I wouldn't even call them amateurs, which are people with better stuff who strive for becoming pro. And You are talking about kids who use mic for 1$.


That's easiest to say...


I didn't say that english dub is a complete crap and shit. I said that original dub highly surpasess the english one.

I was also forced to watch american dub, when didn't have the original. Even after 10-20 episodes I didn't get used to it, and it still extremly iritated me. So don't say that I'm not objective, and don't even consider the american dub.

I have to disagree. When you act you need to backup your words with your actions and vise versa. You can't talk big and at same time be clumsy with your expressions, poses and gestures shows. You have to act accordingly. Also if your moves are flawless but you can't talk coresspondingly, then you are no good either.

Most important for actors (all kinds of actors) is to feel essence of character,
feel its spirit, become one and act as one. If you can think and do like character, then it will be good acting, because you put yourself into it.

Only talk by imagining that you are the hero or the vilain of that show is simplier than move like those characters.

So I think that Voice acting = acting (overall) - body acting is correct.


I totaly agree with this.


Which part of sentence "It's a typo" you dont understand?
Clearly that typo of word ア(a) 二(ni) メ(me) won't be "anime" anymore, right?

Why is it "animu" only God knows, maybe Google knows too. Ask one of them maybe they'll answer you.


From my point of view it was exactly as I said.


Well, you just picked up the legendary infamous dubs. Watch something better next time.


I don't really get what you meant by that, but are you saying that creating manga is easier than anime? I think so, because this comparison fits only here. Books don't involve voice acting at all.


Do you really want me to start?

I'm pretty new to this so forgive me if I do something wrong in any way.

I do however have to agree with Noble when he talks about anime fans bashing dubs. Yes the original usually is better but you do get some dubs that are either better or just as good as the original.
When people complain about changing the words/sentences etc, sometimes it's required to keep in time with the lip sync. if you say a sentence in Japanese and translate it to English (or any other language) the lip synch will be wrong, so in order to get the lip sync right and the general point of the sentence across, the translation will not be completely accurate. Basically my point is, it’s hard to get to completely right. But anime fans should not diss dubs because of this, it is not the voice actor’s fault. They do not all suck, if anything, blame the language. =)

Personally yes I prefer to watch originals but I do also watch some dubs to see the difference and which one is better. For example, Cowboy Bebop. this is one anime I (and I’m sure other will also agree with me) actually prefer the dub over the original. As mentioned before, Fruit Basket's dub is also pretty decent. There are animes out there with good dub, so it is not fair for a 12 year old kid who only watches Naruto to just say "Japanese's the best! I will only watch the Japanese version!! Kawaii!!!! =^.^="


Please do not just say “Dubs suck” because you’ve not watched every single dub to back that up. There are good ones out there, you just gotta find them.

Nobleman, I think you're considering acting from the POV of the actor, whereas the most important thing is to consider acting from the POV of the audience. It's most important for actors to feel their characters, but most important for the audience that they express those characters, and if they have a limited scope to do this, e.g. sound only, that's a lot harder. It's like those exercises in art classes where you paint a picture using only two colours - your possibilities are fewer, so it is harder to do.

Also, acting is a skill, same as anything else. If I put my whole will and soul into, I dunno, baseball and 'become one with it', that won't make me good at it, I have to have talent, just as voice actors need talent in portraying people using only their voices. Some actors are very physical - which, I would argue, is why western celebrity-voiced animation often has characters that slightly resemble their voices (e.g. Robin Williams' genie in Aladdin, Donkey and Fiona in Shrek); it's seen as too much of a stretch to make them stand on their own when they have a well-known voice behind them, so they use this and employ the star's likeness to give their character a little more depth. It isn't necessarily simpler to portray someone's character through their speech alone; is it easier to have an important conversation with someone on the phone, or face to face?



The part that goes which tells me that if that is the case, and given that E is on the other side of the keyboard from U, it's obviously not a typo, it's intentional. Why you'd do that, I don't understand, and why you'd like pronouncing it wrong, I also don't understand. To be specific =P


And Kaih, the problem (at least for me, and I know for some others) is that while I'm fully willing to admit there are good dubs out there, based on past experience, I have no desire to spoil my watching experience and fond memories by sifting through the vast majority of substandard ones, when I know the Japanese audio will be perfectly acceptable, and probably better, by default. I don't have that kind of time or patience, and I also don't rewatch that often. From a pragmatic perspective, personally speaking, it's a lot more sensible to simply assume dubs suck and avoid them.