Do you have sympathy for RBA? *SPOILER*

Preciize said:
It looks like they don't enjoy killing people but they have no choice for reasons that are worth the lives of many. They've stained their hands with blood for the greater good (?).

Ragix said:
I think that's more because they accidentally let themselves get attached to them as "friends". The ONLY way I can see it being for the greater good is if it turns out it's the Monarch who's the real villain here. I see that being very unlikely though.

Preciize said:


Well I don't think they were cold hearted killers to begin with. Since Bertolt repeatedly says they can finally go home it makes me think they were forced to go on their current mission. He also says he and Reiner cherished the times they had with their comrades during the 3 years of training. I don't believe they would have developed such a strong bond w/ their friends if they only cared about completing the mission given to them. Looks like Reiner, Bertolt, and Annie all have their inner conflicts.

As for the Monarchy, I could see it happening. With all the corruption going on, it seems like the government doesn't care much about anything or anyone but themselves. Plus there's so much about the cult we don't know yet so I wouldn't rule it out.

Ragix said:

That's where the problem comes in though, they all say that, but are still willing to go as far as kill innocent people and even Marco presumably for their mission. Unfortunately, all we can do is speculate for now, but like I said, they're going to need a damn good reason for me to show them sympathy after what they've done so far.

It could, but as of now I'm not sure. I feel like the Monarch is just kind of there for us to know how exactly the whole place runs. I mean, we know almost nothing about the government or Monarch, we just know that there are nobles and a King, but we've been focusing on the Military only this whole time. If they do end up playing that card, I hope they give us more vivid details about the Monarchy and Nobles instead of giving us a bland static antagonist.

The cult on the other hand is something I'm rather interested in. Especially seeing as how they're seen as crazy, but hold possibly one of the greatest secrets of the walls and perhaps the key as to how humanity survive for so long.

Preciize said:


I thought Marco had already died and Annie just took his 3D gear. But anyways, I know where you're coming from. I hope we won't have to wait too long for their reasons to be revealed to us.

I agree, I'm pretty fascinated by the mysteries surrounding the cult. There's so many ways the author could go with this.

LestrangeHakase said:

Apology: Her apologizing to Marco is somehow taken as proof that she violently stabbed him to death with her sword on a whim. There's a very simple reason for her to apologize. She was the reason all those titans swarmed into Trost and then she sees that one of her comrades died because of those titans, while she's counting and identifying people. More than enough of a reason to owe him an apology.

yuquall said:
I can't hate them and I kinda like them more than the other trainees. Seemed like they had been through a lot before the attack. Too bad they got themselves attached to the other trainees.

Annie had been trained by his dad since she was young to hate all humans and probably prepared for this specific assignment. I guess them warriors are all was taught that insiders (humans within walls) were all bad people and then had a slight change of heart seeing that their insider friends weren't as bad or rotten as they had originally thought.

Where is their 'hometown' anyway??
According to her flashback before getting captured, Annie still had her dad waiting for her.

Preciize said:


Did her dad tell her to hate humans? I thought he said to hate him. I'm thinking Annie and her dad might be human b/c of the way she learned to fight in hand to hand combat. Not sure if titans could have developed some kind of martial arts.

Their hometown should be outside the walls.

LestrangeHakase said:
They didn't even know about any kind of Ape-Titan and they do seem to do whatever they are doing of their own free will (even taking pride in it by calling themselves warriors). They could have been manipulated into what they are now by raising and educating them that way for years, but I doubt they've simply been blackmailed.

---

Just now I re-read a few chapters with my theory of BRA always telling the truth in mind and found something weird. Annie is not only drawn to people with strong dedication and willpower (Eren, Armin, that MP guy) but claims to be weak at times. So what if she's not kidding and not the strongest-willed out of the three?

So far I thought of Annie as the "leader" of BRA, but if she envies strongwilled people and is facinated by them, then it's highly likely that she might have a strong body but a weak heart (unlike Armin whose body is weak while his heart is strong).

So then I looked into who else would be the one calling the shots for them. If Annie is weak and more of an opportunist and Reiner is in so much pain he develops a second personality then the "leader" would have to be Berthold.
Funny thing about that is, once you consider him the leader you realize all the other hints towards that:
- When Armin and Eren asked BR about their past it was Berthold that did all the talking
- He is the most professional and keeps his distance to everyone while Reiner actually builds a friendship with some of them and Annie stays pretty close to Mina and bonds with Eren and Armin a little
- Berthold is the one that reminds Reiner of his priorities ("Don't forget you're a warrior.")
- When BR kidnapped Eren he was the one that came up with their escape plan (Eating a soldier early on to take possession of his 3D gear).
- All of their attacks relied on him striking first (It always starts with him destroying the gate.)
- He was the one that watched Ymir closely when she turned into a titan and he used that information to tell Reiner, that her speed would be a threat.
- In their human forms Reiner and Annie are two of the most skilled fighters, while he is the one that handles the talking. So maybe he's the brain and they are the brawn?
- Even among shifters he's visibly different, having an abnormal size. You could say he's a taller titan cause he's taller as a human but then again: Annie and Eren are slightly smaller than Reiner. The 2 of them turn into 14 meter classes and Reiner turns into a 15 meter class. Would Berthold slightly greater height really result in him being the only 60 meter class in the entire manga (even the Ape is smaller)? I'm guessing that there is something entirely different with Bertholds and Ymirs titan form compared to the rest.

I'm not saying he's worse than the other two and I still guess they are all victims that were grown and formed into what they are now, but under his guise of a shy and silent guy he seems to be the one thats under control for the most part and he is most likely the most loyal to their cause.

yuquall said:


I actually applauded Berthold when he remained indifferent to Eren's rage bursts.
The forms of Annie, Berthold and Reiner titans are skinless with muscles and joints visible all over the body. But Eren's and Ymir's have perfect skin just like the other titans. They are definitely different from other titans and probably have the whole clan of shape shifters back in their hometown?

Preciize said:


I wonder if their whole clan are actually shape shifters. I think if there were they'd send more people to back up Annie, Berthold and Reiner. Like j0x said, I think they're being blackmailed. Maybe someone is threatening to destroy their village?

yuquall said:


True. Or they were all assigned to different missions somewhere else?
It's obvious that they were somehow forced to do whatever they do.
Strange it might be, I do really sympathize with them.

I'm curious with what Berthold said though "Please find us". Now, what did he mean by that?

Preciize said:


I feel sympathy for them as well. Not only were they forced to do something, but they also have to carry the blame and hate while whoever is behind all this doesn't.

But anyways, when did Berthold say that? I probably missed it.

yuquall said:


In the last chapter when he pleaded to his former colleages I think just before he was attacked by Erwin, he said that in the end.

Preciize said:

Oh, maybe he's hoping the people in his village will find him, Reiner, and Annie if they don't return? Or find out what happened to them and assuming they died, to acknowledge their deaths?

promptu said:
unff love them three, i feel like they're being manipulated/used by someone else to do what they did?? especially seeing them guilt ridden eurgh, and when you remember than when bert and reiner attacked shiganshina they were like ten years old

HalfMetalJacket said:

Yes indeed. Y'all gotta keep this in mind. They might have been manipulated into doing this.

yuquall said:

Wow now that you mentioned it, I've completely forgotten about their age. Reiner and Berthold looked old for their age.

During Reiner and Berthold first interaction with Eren and Armin, they had obviously shown some detest toward the other trainees. They thought the others were just some spoiled brats who had been hiding all this time within the walls, never even saw a real Titan and only joined the army to hide themselves further in the inner walls.

But once they learnt Eren had actually saw a Titan and even witnessed her mother being devoured by one, they warmed up to him (partly maybe because they felt responsible for her death). Reiner especially took an immediate liking to Eren and coach him happily. Annie too was impressed by how Eren's determination to fight the titans that she offered to train him herself. While Berthold himself kept aloof.

dankickyou said:
Annie is forgiven all her sins cause she is mai waifu!

Xinception said:


Really hope so though, wanting the whole 104th squad to at least fight together in the last battle :c.

BTW... Your sig, speaks the truth.

HalfMetalJacket said:
Bert actually did share his story to Eren. He also gave him some advice for 3DMG, so I wouldn't say he was cold.

Damn, the guys that Eren respected the most turn out to be spies. Gosh the betrayal would have hurt a lot.

yuquall said:

Yeah, I wouldn't say he was cold, but he did keep his distance unlike his other partners. I guess him being the leader most likely is a valid assumption.

Poor Eren. Judging from his character, he would naturally bond easily with those three. They were exactly what he expected for brave and honorable soldiers to be like, especially Reiner. He said it himself, he looked up to and wanted to become like Reiner.

Do you think they had a prior knowledge about the 3DMG or they sneaked into the walls to learn about them too among other things? Since they were especially excelled in using them the first time, mentioned by Eren when he sought their advices on 3DMG.

WalkingMisery said:
We don't know their reasons yet but I doubt it will ever redeem them in my eyes.

Berth felt pity? Am I the only one that wanted to punch his face off? Eren gets alot of shit for flying off the handle but people he thought were his friends were betraying him. Then Ymir switching sides in a second? I think he has pretty legit reasons.

For now seeing their face just pisses me off. Hope they die.

Jotaro_Kujo said:


Seconded. Seriously, I love the titan shifters. I want to see them redeemed somehow, but genocide isn't something you can just toss aside even if you were coerced into doing it from a young age. But since I do have faith in Isayama's storytelling ability, I'm sure he could pull off some sort of redemptive angle without it being mawkish or overly forgiving of their crimes.

Xinception said:


Why? Can't they be all like



that?

Xinception said:


Probably briefed by their "superiors".

So that means there must be other spies inside the walls? .....

WalkingMisery said:
We don't know their reasons yet but I doubt it will ever redeem them in my eyes.

Berth felt pity? Am I the only one that wanted to punch his face off? Eren gets alot of shit for flying off the handle but people he thought were his friends were betraying him. Then Ymir switching sides in a second? I think he has pretty legit reasons.

For now seeing their face just pisses me off. Hope they die.

yuquall said:

I think so. How could they know where exactly to breach the walls in the first place otherwise? I don't think someone who had never been in the walls couldn't possibly come up with a plan like that. They knew for sure where to hit and where to head.

And there are those smugglers too.


At that moment, I just wanted to punch Eren. Anyway, Ymir changed sides because of Eren's attitude.

On a side note, #%"#&!$ you Eren! Ymir would have told us what she knew!!

Xinception said:

Wait... I thought she didn't snitch because Reiner made a deal with her about protecting Historia?

Da faq u n' bout?

yuquall said:


You are both correct from my understanding. Reiner actually interrupted Ymir in order to hurriedly strike a deal about Christa, and slowly Ymir decided to keep quiet.
I'd like to say that Eren might have been able to get it out of her if he had been able to cool it, but Eren never does, and I kinda understand him about it.

HalibelTheEspada said:
I know much of what my input has probably already been said but...

Honestly, it's like any war... it's not really a matter of good or evil. Whether or not they have a "good" reason means nothing. From their own side, sure there could be some great and noble reason for what they've done. And even if I can sympathize with them... I feel like what they've done is completely unforgivable from the humans' standpoint. However, I also feel like whether or not I like it they're going to be forgiven so I'll have to get over it.

Technically Annie is the only one who I think could deserve forgiveness. She didn't really senselessly murder many random people... but merely defended herself. She killed one person that she didn't have to... however it was to further a goal. But while Reiner (that we know of didn't really directly kill anyone) and Bert may have killed a lesser portion of humans... but they did slaughter most of mankind (as we know it). It's like setting a plague on a population. Sure they're probably just pawns in someone else's big scheme... but they're still responsible for their own actions.

The only thing I can see being morally acceptable really, is if they honestly had no idea that their actions would lead to the deaths of so many people. But they certainly don't show any regret. Sure Bert said they don't necessarily want to... but for one they're about to be killed so he could just be grovelling, and even if they don't want to they didn't have any problem doing it again. So if it bothered them they really didn't show it. Also, Armin seems to think that Annie guided all the titans into the city... so there's that.

Of course I'm sure at the end of the day, even if what they did is unforgivable. There's a pretty good chance all will end up being bygones and eventually I'll just end up accepting that fact. At least, it feels like the characters in the area right now seem to be willing get past their actions... it'd be pretty hard to convince the rest of humanity. And of course, they can always just keep the fact that they were the cause a secret.

yuquall said:

As you said it's a war.. people will die.

Whatever they did is unforgivable. Direct nor indirectly they have already caused the death of many people, innocent or not. To be fair, it's the same with what Eren and Mikasa did to the kidnappers is unforgivable. Self-defense or not. You take somebody else's life, you can't get away with that fact.

But Annie, Reiner, and Bertholt are warriors. They were trained to kill and to carry out the missions whatever it takes. They are not supposed to show remorse or regret afterwards. They are not to question the task nor to feel sorry for the 'enemies'.

Annie and Reiner showing signs of remorse just proved to us that they have not completely lost their consciences. Bertholt was swayed but hanging in there. Someone has to be in control or the mission is going to fail.

So yeah I sympathize with them.
They are a whole lot better than the Military Polices.

Xinception said:

Well, tbh, it was the rapists who took away Mikasa's parents' life.... so payback?

yuquall said:

Yeah, I know that.

For whatever valid reason, taking a person's life, let it be someone else's or your own is unforgivable. Doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do under certain circumstances, so yeah.. being a hero sucks.

I'm more into punishment when they are still alive rather than a quick death penalty. Torture them, make them feel horrible and horrified for the rest of their lives for what they have done. *evil laugh

I think a torture doesn't always have to be physical. Physical pain is usually caused by an external cause so it is possible to avoid if you can help it, but mental pain is always from within self, almost impossible to escape it.

Xinception said:

In short, ....

The Joker is the best villain ever? Since he's unstable and all? xD

yuquall said:

Maybe?

Personally I would say Sepiroth and Wesker are one of the best villains ever.
Super badass villain XD[/quote


Sephiroth? Pfft... Let me introduce you to..... Kefka. HA!!!!! F

FF6 > FF7