Do you have sympathy for RBA? *SPOILER*

chikkychappy said:
"I hate them.. i will rip them apart.. tear them to shreds and eat them!"



armin theorized it sometime back

Jotaro_Kujo said:
They're not meant to be sympathized with, and that's the point.

MikasaxEren said:
There is never a good enough reason to kill 250,000 people without trying other options first.

MikasaxEren said:
Annie is also implied to have killed Marco too, because she had his maneuvering gear.

LestrangeHakase said:


Implied to have killed Marco? Jean took some other corpses 3D Gear when his broke, so is he implied to have killed that person aswell? ^^
Marco died inside the walls of Trost and the female titan never appeared there. If she had been, the normal titans would have hunted her which would have been very easy for everyone to notice since the army was in the process of luring the titans to the walls when Marco was last seen and he was clearly killed by a titan, so she couldn't have cut him down in human form.


---

As for BRA: Their actions are neither right nor just but I'm not sure if they can be called evil.
The only thing we know about them so far is that they consider themselves warriors, not soldiers. The difference between those two is that being a soldier is a job: you're simply a trained fighter under some governments command. A warrior however is someone that fights for his own beliefs. That can even be seen in Reiners "disorder". Multiple Personality Disorder is usually the brains way of protecting itself or coping with something, and Reiners "Soldier-Personality" is this coping mechanism which most likely appeared due to him growing an affection to his comrades.
So as a warrior he did what he believed to be right but his mind could not bear having to betray his friends for it and he took shelter by becoming a soldier: Someone that simply follows orders without questioning them.
If his reason for trying to eradicate mankind wasn't very very good he would have had the choice of simply saying "I'll stay true to my human side and stay loyal to my friends." and would have never developed MPD.

ErenxMikasa said:

When Annie says "I'm sorry" around the corpses way back, that could have implied she took part in killing marco

LestrangeHakase said:


It could be. But then again it could simply be due to the way BRA operate. When Armin first saw the female titan and guessed she was "like Eren" he took the wild guess that she might be the one that lead all the normal titans towards the breached wall.

Meaning Annie usually runs around outside to get the titans attention, Berthold breaks the outer walls gate, Annie leads the titans towards the gate and later Reiner destroys the inner wall. If that was true Annie (same goes for Reiner and Berthold ofc) would be indirectly responsible for everyone that was killed by those normal titans. Enough of a reason for her to apologize.

LestrangeHakase said:
Oh yeah she did. In fact she pretty much took part in the deaths of almost every human we've seen dying. It's just that I doubt she willfully and personally killed Marco just to get his 3D gear. He simply happened to die in the chaos BRA orchestrated and Annie took his gear afterwards. Maybe she found him before Jean did (haven't gone back to seeing whether or not Marco was wearing his gear when Jean found him) or she took it just before Marco was burned along with the other corpses.

ErenxMikasa said:
That still doesn't explain her apologizing, I think the timing is too convenient for it to have been a coincidence.

LestrangeHakase said:
Anime versus canon :P In the manga it's a reluctant smile, in the anime they exaggerate it into a long manic laughter.



Well yeah it was pretty convenient. After all she knew people would die that day, but she couldn't have known who would die. If Marco had survived she'd have taken Minas Gear, or maybe the gear of one of the many redshirts that died that day. So there wasn't even a reason to kill Marco. Especially since he was neither and extraordinary trainee, nor a born leader or a threat in any other way.

Oh and whats more: Why would she have any need to kill him during the fight anyway? She needed to get a second 3D gear to kill the two captured titans. However the trainees only found out that titans were captured after the fighting ended. The Scouting Legion hadn't even appeared in Trost when Marco was last seen alive (luring away the titan that was going for Jean) so no titan was captured at that point o.o

LestrangeHakase said:
Anime versus canon :P In the manga it's a reluctant smile, in the anime they exaggerate it into a long manic laughter.



Well yeah it was pretty convenient. After all she knew people would die that day, but she couldn't have known who would die. If Marco had survived she'd have taken Minas Gear, or maybe the gear of one of the many redshirts that died that day. So there wasn't even a reason to kill Marco. Especially since he was neither and extraordinary trainee, nor a born leader or a threat in any other way.

Oh and whats more: Why would she have any need to kill him during the fight anyway? She needed to get a second 3D gear to kill the two captured titans. However the trainees only found out that titans were captured after the fighting ended. The Scouting Legion hadn't even appeared in Trost when Marco was last seen alive (luring away the titan that was going for Jean) so no titan was captured at that point o.o

MikasaxEren said:
She laughs in the manga too, there are the sound effect things on the panel where she grins, although it does seem less manic.

LestrangeHakase said:


True, but the anime goes as far as to show her blushing and laughing manically to depict her as the perverted psychopath getting aroused by what she does. Guess thats due to the Animes nature. It's about to end, so they need to turn her into the perfect villain for now.


@ErenxMikasa
The timing is convenient but there are lots of reasons for her to apologize. Either the fact that the titans that she lured in killed Marco, or she's apologizing cause she desecrated his corpse by stealing his 3D gear or she's simply sorry that some of her comrades died.
I'm not saying she's a good person, but for now the only person that has willfully killed someone just to get their equipment is Berthold. He's the one that ate a guy along with Ymir cause he figured he'd need the 3D gear to flee. Annie used Marcos death to her advantage which is already pretty disgusting, but I seriously doubt she actively killed Marco with her own hands just because she apologized to the people that died.

ConquestOtaku17 said:
I have BIG sympathy towards them. I mean we don't even know their reasons for infiltrating the walls, and yet everyone is just hating on them. I actually became really interested into their characters now that they've revealed their identities. And All murders have a reason in them right? So why can't we just learn about their reasonings and backstories before we try to kill them. And Remember how Eren's dad gave Eren that shot as a kid. Well what if RBA had to face that kind of fate like that, and were told to destroy humanity from their village. Speaking of the village, does anyone wanna guess that the village is actually filled with other titan shifters in there, which explains the fact that RBA are trying to kidnap Eren and Ymir.

And I'm done with my ranting or something.

HalfMetalJacket said:

They still did some nasty shit.

ConquestOtaku17 said:


Like I said, they must've had some reason for it.

Preciize said:
It looks like they don't enjoy killing people but they have no choice for reasons that are worth the lives of many. They've stained their hands with blood for the greater good (?).

Ragix said:
I think that's more because they accidentally let themselves get attached to them as "friends". The ONLY way I can see it being for the greater good is if it turns out it's the Monarch who's the real villain here. I see that being very unlikely though.

Preciize said:


Well I don't think they were cold hearted killers to begin with. Since Bertolt repeatedly says they can finally go home it makes me think they were forced to go on their current mission. He also says he and Reiner cherished the times they had with their comrades during the 3 years of training. I don't believe they would have developed such a strong bond w/ their friends if they only cared about completing the mission given to them. Looks like Reiner, Bertolt, and Annie all have their inner conflicts.

As for the Monarchy, I could see it happening. With all the corruption going on, it seems like the government doesn't care much about anything or anyone but themselves. Plus there's so much about the cult we don't know yet so I wouldn't rule it out.

Ragix said:

That's where the problem comes in though, they all say that, but are still willing to go as far as kill innocent people and even Marco presumably for their mission. Unfortunately, all we can do is speculate for now, but like I said, they're going to need a damn good reason for me to show them sympathy after what they've done so far.

It could, but as of now I'm not sure. I feel like the Monarch is just kind of there for us to know how exactly the whole place runs. I mean, we know almost nothing about the government or Monarch, we just know that there are nobles and a King, but we've been focusing on the Military only this whole time. If they do end up playing that card, I hope they give us more vivid details about the Monarchy and Nobles instead of giving us a bland static antagonist.

The cult on the other hand is something I'm rather interested in. Especially seeing as how they're seen as crazy, but hold possibly one of the greatest secrets of the walls and perhaps the key as to how humanity survive for so long.

Preciize said:


I thought Marco had already died and Annie just took his 3D gear. But anyways, I know where you're coming from. I hope we won't have to wait too long for their reasons to be revealed to us.

I agree, I'm pretty fascinated by the mysteries surrounding the cult. There's so many ways the author could go with this.

LestrangeHakase said:

Apology: Her apologizing to Marco is somehow taken as proof that she violently stabbed him to death with her sword on a whim. There's a very simple reason for her to apologize. She was the reason all those titans swarmed into Trost and then she sees that one of her comrades died because of those titans, while she's counting and identifying people. More than enough of a reason to owe him an apology.

yuquall said:
I can't hate them and I kinda like them more than the other trainees. Seemed like they had been through a lot before the attack. Too bad they got themselves attached to the other trainees.

Annie had been trained by his dad since she was young to hate all humans and probably prepared for this specific assignment. I guess them warriors are all was taught that insiders (humans within walls) were all bad people and then had a slight change of heart seeing that their insider friends weren't as bad or rotten as they had originally thought.

Where is their 'hometown' anyway??
According to her flashback before getting captured, Annie still had her dad waiting for her.

Preciize said:


Did her dad tell her to hate humans? I thought he said to hate him. I'm thinking Annie and her dad might be human b/c of the way she learned to fight in hand to hand combat. Not sure if titans could have developed some kind of martial arts.

Their hometown should be outside the walls.

LestrangeHakase said:
They didn't even know about any kind of Ape-Titan and they do seem to do whatever they are doing of their own free will (even taking pride in it by calling themselves warriors). They could have been manipulated into what they are now by raising and educating them that way for years, but I doubt they've simply been blackmailed.

---

Just now I re-read a few chapters with my theory of BRA always telling the truth in mind and found something weird. Annie is not only drawn to people with strong dedication and willpower (Eren, Armin, that MP guy) but claims to be weak at times. So what if she's not kidding and not the strongest-willed out of the three?

So far I thought of Annie as the "leader" of BRA, but if she envies strongwilled people and is facinated by them, then it's highly likely that she might have a strong body but a weak heart (unlike Armin whose body is weak while his heart is strong).

So then I looked into who else would be the one calling the shots for them. If Annie is weak and more of an opportunist and Reiner is in so much pain he develops a second personality then the "leader" would have to be Berthold.
Funny thing about that is, once you consider him the leader you realize all the other hints towards that:
- When Armin and Eren asked BR about their past it was Berthold that did all the talking
- He is the most professional and keeps his distance to everyone while Reiner actually builds a friendship with some of them and Annie stays pretty close to Mina and bonds with Eren and Armin a little
- Berthold is the one that reminds Reiner of his priorities ("Don't forget you're a warrior.")
- When BR kidnapped Eren he was the one that came up with their escape plan (Eating a soldier early on to take possession of his 3D gear).
- All of their attacks relied on him striking first (It always starts with him destroying the gate.)
- He was the one that watched Ymir closely when she turned into a titan and he used that information to tell Reiner, that her speed would be a threat.
- In their human forms Reiner and Annie are two of the most skilled fighters, while he is the one that handles the talking. So maybe he's the brain and they are the brawn?
- Even among shifters he's visibly different, having an abnormal size. You could say he's a taller titan cause he's taller as a human but then again: Annie and Eren are slightly smaller than Reiner. The 2 of them turn into 14 meter classes and Reiner turns into a 15 meter class. Would Berthold slightly greater height really result in him being the only 60 meter class in the entire manga (even the Ape is smaller)? I'm guessing that there is something entirely different with Bertholds and Ymirs titan form compared to the rest.

I'm not saying he's worse than the other two and I still guess they are all victims that were grown and formed into what they are now, but under his guise of a shy and silent guy he seems to be the one thats under control for the most part and he is most likely the most loyal to their cause.

yuquall said:


I actually applauded Berthold when he remained indifferent to Eren's rage bursts.
The forms of Annie, Berthold and Reiner titans are skinless with muscles and joints visible all over the body. But Eren's and Ymir's have perfect skin just like the other titans. They are definitely different from other titans and probably have the whole clan of shape shifters back in their hometown?

Preciize said:


I wonder if their whole clan are actually shape shifters. I think if there were they'd send more people to back up Annie, Berthold and Reiner. Like j0x said, I think they're being blackmailed. Maybe someone is threatening to destroy their village?

yuquall said:


True. Or they were all assigned to different missions somewhere else?
It's obvious that they were somehow forced to do whatever they do.
Strange it might be, I do really sympathize with them.

I'm curious with what Berthold said though "Please find us". Now, what did he mean by that?

Preciize said:


I feel sympathy for them as well. Not only were they forced to do something, but they also have to carry the blame and hate while whoever is behind all this doesn't.

But anyways, when did Berthold say that? I probably missed it.

yuquall said:


In the last chapter when he pleaded to his former colleages I think just before he was attacked by Erwin, he said that in the end.

Preciize said:

Oh, maybe he's hoping the people in his village will find him, Reiner, and Annie if they don't return? Or find out what happened to them and assuming they died, to acknowledge their deaths?

promptu said:
unff love them three, i feel like they're being manipulated/used by someone else to do what they did?? especially seeing them guilt ridden eurgh, and when you remember than when bert and reiner attacked shiganshina they were like ten years old

HalfMetalJacket said:

Yes indeed. Y'all gotta keep this in mind. They might have been manipulated into doing this.

yuquall said:

Wow now that you mentioned it, I've completely forgotten about their age. Reiner and Berthold looked old for their age.

During Reiner and Berthold first interaction with Eren and Armin, they had obviously shown some detest toward the other trainees. They thought the others were just some spoiled brats who had been hiding all this time within the walls, never even saw a real Titan and only joined the army to hide themselves further in the inner walls.

But once they learnt Eren had actually saw a Titan and even witnessed her mother being devoured by one, they warmed up to him (partly maybe because they felt responsible for her death). Reiner especially took an immediate liking to Eren and coach him happily. Annie too was impressed by how Eren's determination to fight the titans that she offered to train him herself. While Berthold himself kept aloof.