| Bi-shounens, Cross dressers/traps, scrawny emo/whiny teenagers all fall under this category. It seems more and more anime have more male characters with more effeminate traits. Why do you think these characters are so popular and do you enjoy them? Personally I'm not too fond of them, I find it strange how many there are in most anime and what appeal they have. It feels like the industry is saying to chop off your dick and put on some make-up and people will accept you. Or if you act in a more feminine way girls will like you. This is obviously not the case. Now I'm not saying that all men should have x traits and y appearance, everyone is different and is free to express themselves. However I just find it strange that these types of traits and appearances are some of the most prominent in the anime industry. |
LoneWolfSep 2, 2013 1:26 AM
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
| They are prominent, but not the most prominent. I am a fan of traps/reverse-traps myself, but that's just based on my attraction to depth/hidden identity. I find that they are very intriguing to watch, and I love the aspects that make them what they are. I.e Kirito is a "cute boy doing cute boy things" However, someone like Hideyoshi is a whole different level. |
| It's natural for a person to deny he's a failure as a human being. That's why he searches for somebody who is more miserable than himself. That's why so much animosity exists on the internet. Those who aren't able to find a more miserable person, turn to the internet and call other people losers, even though they've never met. Just to make themselves feel superior. isn't that pathetic? There's a sense of security that comes from speaking badly of someone else. But that isn't true salvation. — Tatsuhiro Satou YandereTheEmo said: The only thing more pathetic than quoting someone you know nothing about, is quoting yourself. |
| I don't say I enjoy them, but I prefer bi-shounen to muscular, gar male characters |
battosai-01 said: Bi-shounens, Cross dressers/traps, scrawny emo/whiny teenagers all fall under this category. It seems more and more anime have more male characters with more effeminate traits. Why do you think these characters are so popular and do you enjoy them? Personally I'm not too fond of them, I find it strange how many there are in most anime and what appeal they have. It feels like the industry is saying to chop off your dick and put on some make-up and people will accept you. Or if you act in a more feminine way girls will like you. This is obviously not the case. Now I'm not saying that all men should have x traits and y appearance, everyone is different and is free to express themselves however they want. However I just find it strange that these types of traits and appearances are some of the most prominent in the anime industry. Yeah....uhmm I don't like traps, scrawny emos as well in my anime. I also don't like androgynous guys that easily can be mistaken for chicks; Because most guys in Japan nowaday are betas that's why it's so popular?(or so MAL says...) |
1L0can0Sep 2, 2013 1:29 AM
Korrvo said: I like lolis. I don't like them sexually. It's hard to not like lolis, their cuteness pander to the same emotions that naturally makes us fathers. But it's hard to get off to anything that doesn't have any adult women characteristics like large tits, ass, and thighs. http://imgur.com/qgjKHGn |
| I actually thought girls (especially japanese) dig these kind of men. The ones that look like girls but still have a dick. Never exactly got the point of that since you could just go lesbian and have fun with strap-ons instead, but hey. However I know for a fact that most like girly boys. They want us to shave everywhere and they dont want us to have epic beards. I mean wtf beards are like the manliest thing in the world! |
| Male characters that express emotion?? What are they, human or something? Give me a break. |
 |
Red_Keys said: Male characters that express emotion?? What are they, human or something? Give me a break. Uhm we are talking about appearence here not the character, whats this got to do with emotion? |
baki502 said: Read the OP again.Uhm we are talking about appearence here not the character, whats this got to do with emotion? |
|
Candior said: Red_Keys said: > Implying that GAR characters can't express emotionsMale characters that express emotion?? What are they, human or something? Give me a break. Exactly. When manly characters express emotion that its real one and its moving. When the bitchy girly characters express their "emotion" every episode I just cant feel for them and thing their are whiny bitches cough* Shinji *cough |
Red_Keys said: Male characters that express emotion?? What are they, human or something? Give me a break. Obviously you didn't bother to read my post. I'm not saying they don't have emotions, but rather they would express them selves in a more feminine way. Men are often seen as more aggressive and confrontational, so it's expected for them to face their problems head-on (physical violence, direct conflicts). While females are more reclusive and rather deal with their emotions in a more roundabout way by keeping them inside (getting depressed/crying), or projecting them onto other people (bitching/whining). Obviously not all men or women act this way, these are just the general stereotypes associated with both genders. Yet anime seem to always lean more toward the the feminine way for both males and females. Also manly tears in GAR anime is usually reserved for mourning (which is easily excusable) or admiration (which is hard to explain... I guess it would be like an extreme form of respect) |
LoneWolfSep 2, 2013 2:11 AM
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
Red_Keys said: baki502 said: Read the OP again.Uhm we are talking about appearence here not the character, whats this got to do with emotion? Right back at you. He mentions emo/whiny teenagers once and then continues to focus on the appearance and not character traits. Yet you choose to focus on the 5% part of his text rather than the 95%. |
battosai-01 said: What character specifically do you have in mind?Red_Keys said: Male characters that express emotion?? What are they, human or something? Give me a break. Obviously you didn't bother to read my post. I'm not saying they don't have emotions, but rather they would express them selves in a more feminine way. Men are often seen as more aggressive and confrontational, so it's expected for them to face their problems head-on (physical violence, direct conflicts). While females are more reclusive and rather deal with their emotions in a more roundabout way by keeping them inside (getting depressed/crying), or projecting them onto other people (bitching/whining). Obviously not all men or women act this way, these are just the general stereotypes associated with how both genders. Yet anime seem to always lean more toward the the feminine way for both males and females. |
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YandereTheEmo said: I.e Kirito is a "cute boy doing cute boy things" Kirito doesn't fall under this. Red_Keys said: Male characters that express emotion?? What are they, human or something? Give me a break. That doesn't even make sense. Is being whiny and bitchy the only way to express their emotion? No. Guts for example doesn't fit into this category but he is still amazingly developed and relatable, you can really connect with the character on an emotional level, his deep emotions and everything about him is so well written. The same can be said about Kurosawa and Kurono Kei. But when you have other emo characters that are excessive with their annoying emotions ( they just have to remind you in every episode how ''miserable and sad'' their life is, just constant whining) and they are never developed properly, it's no wonder people dislike them. OT: I'm not really a fan and I personally don't like them at all. Traps are usually just used for comedy and I'm okay with that since I'm not really interested in people with gender identity problems and stuff like that, I wouldn't be interested with something that goes in depth like the wandering son. Emo and angsty teenage characters are also not my cup of tea, they are usually generic with bad characterization and little to no decent character development, I simply can't relate to them or care and empathize with them. |
 |
tsudman said: Like who specifically?But when you have other emo characters that are exccesive with their annoying emotions ( they just have to remind you in every episode how ''miserable and sad'' their life is, just constant whining) and they are never developed properly, it's no wonder people dislike them. |
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Red_Keys said: tsudman said: Like who specifically?But when you have other emo characters that are exccesive with their annoying emotions ( they just have to remind you in every episode how ''miserable and sad'' their life is, just constant whining) and they are never developed properly, it's no wonder people dislike them. Shinji from NGE, Renton from Eureka Seven, Yuki in first half of Mirai Nikki, (insert every second teenager that faces problems here). I came up with 3 of the top of my head and I am bad with remembering characters... |
| Shinji (Evangelion)- Even though hes a great character (very human, very vulnerable) you can't deny he reacts in a very feminine way. Tomoya(Clannad)- same as above, I wouldn't say hes as interesting though. Satoshi (NHK)- Same as above, this makes for a more relatable character though and works better considering the genre. I think I might have mistepped when I said this is the mindset of most male characters, because the ones I'm thinking of are all from shonen and they're obviously much more direct for the sake of simplicity. As for romcom SoL shows, the male chars are not usually put in situations where they would have to respond to their emotions and can just be happy all the time. My points for aesthetics still stand though =/ |
LoneWolfSep 2, 2013 2:07 AM
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
baki502 said: And those are horrible examples (Never seen Eureka Seven), because they experience incredibly traumatic events.Red_Keys said: tsudman said: Like who specifically?But when you have other emo characters that are exccesive with their annoying emotions ( they just have to remind you in every episode how ''miserable and sad'' their life is, just constant whining) and they are never developed properly, it's no wonder people dislike them. Shinji from NGE, Yuki in first half of Mirai Nikki, (insert every second teenager that faces problems here). I came up with 3 of the top of my head and I am bad with remembering characters... Sorry, but evading murder and having expectations of unfair and monstrous proportion put onto you ≠ "normal problems teenagers face". |
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Red_Keys said: tsudman said: Like who specifically?But when you have other emo characters that are exccesive with their annoying emotions ( they just have to remind you in every episode how ''miserable and sad'' their life is, just constant whining) and they are never developed properly, it's no wonder people dislike them. Shu, Renton, Yuki, Shinji and other Shinji clones. I guess compared to the others, Renton had decent development but that doesn't say much. |
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tsudman said: How many terrorist organizations have you been forced to become the main pawn of?Red_Keys said: tsudman said: Like who specifically?But when you have other emo characters that are exccesive with their annoying emotions ( they just have to remind you in every episode how ''miserable and sad'' their life is, just constant whining) and they are never developed properly, it's no wonder people dislike them. Shu, Renton, Yuki, Shinji and other Shinji clones. I guess compared to the others, Renton had decent development but that doesn't say much. |
|
Red_Keys said: baki502 said: And those are horrible examples (Never seen Eureka Seven), because they experience incredibly traumatic events.Red_Keys said: tsudman said: Like who specifically?But when you have other emo characters that are exccesive with their annoying emotions ( they just have to remind you in every episode how ''miserable and sad'' their life is, just constant whining) and they are never developed properly, it's no wonder people dislike them. Shinji from NGE, Yuki in first half of Mirai Nikki, (insert every second teenager that faces problems here). I came up with 3 of the top of my head and I am bad with remembering characters... Sorry, but evading murder and having expectations of unfair and monstrous proportion put onto you ≠ "normal problems teenagers face". You still dont whine all the time. There is a point where you have to man up and face it. I am sorry but what exactly is traumatic for Shinji? He gets the chance to pilot a fucking giant robot, I would never miss that chance and I dont even care if I died doing so. Renton is a prime example tough since he is in a kind of similar position as Shinji but does not whine about having ot pilot a mech (he enjoys it actuallly) but whines all the time because of his socialization failures with humans and how dumb he was he said or didnt say that just to fuck up again next time. Yuki from Mirai Nikki is I guess the only one that has legit big problems and he mans up later on but he still whines a whole lot till he does. And since when did whining save your life? What use is there to whining if you fear for your life? If it werent for the power of the mc most characters would die pretty fast cause instead of fighting or trying to change something they whine and expect others to do stuff for them. |
agaffe said: I can understand why people would call Shinji and Renton whiny, but under-developed? No one said that. |
baki502 said: Hahaha, grow up.I am sorry but what exactly is traumatic for Shinji? He gets the chance to pilot a fucking giant robot |
|
Red_Keys said: baki502 said: Hahaha, grow up.I am sorry but what exactly is traumatic for Shinji? He gets the chance to pilot a fucking giant robot Id rather die young and had the chance to pilot that thing ;). Edit: And i am not even a fan of mecha shows but mechs themselves are pretty damn cool if they were real. |
| Moe boys are my guilty pleasure. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
| I also with I rather lived in the 1910's and got drafted in WW1, so I could fight in the trenches, because guns are so kewl!! |
|
baki502 said: agaffe said: I can understand why people would call Shinji and Renton whiny, but under-developed? No one said that. This thread isn't about how developed characters are. Infact I agree that showing characters reacting this way usually give them more depth and make them easier to relate to and more "human". The problem is these traits are seen as more feminine traits and the characters are male. While objectively theres nothing wrong with this, in the context of this thread, they're acting in a more feminine way, as opposed to how a male would stereotypically handle a situation. |
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
Red_Keys said: I also with I rather lived in the 1910's and got drafted in WW1, so I could fight in the trenches, because guns are so kewl!! If you write in Sarcasm please make it less obvious cause it kind of looses its effect when its so obvious. And i am sorry for not having the same mindset as you and being different. What a horrible thing to do right? |
battosai-01 said: Satoshi (NHK)- Same as above, this makes for a more relatable character though and works better considering the genre. What. I don't think he fits. Red_Keys said: tsudman said: How many terrorist organizations have you been forced to become the main pawn of?Red_Keys said: tsudman said: Like who specifically?But when you have other emo characters that are exccesive with their annoying emotions ( they just have to remind you in every episode how ''miserable and sad'' their life is, just constant whining) and they are never developed properly, it's no wonder people dislike them. Shu, Renton, Yuki, Shinji and other Shinji clones. I guess compared to the others, Renton had decent development but that doesn't say much. How is this relevant? you speak as if that was the only time where he acted like that. I don't really remember Shu that much since I didn't really care for him but he was constantly whining or being depressed with a sad look on his face whenever he faced even the tiniest of problems. He wasn't only ''emo'' when he was confronted with danger ( i.e Inori and that blonde dude, his friend, his everyday life, his talk with Haru when she slapped him ?, etc) he was melancholic before the terrorist thing happened. I think the only time that I empathized with him is when a certain character died. His character development is hilarious though, emo > hitler > Jesus. Now that's quality writing. |
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tsudman said: You should pay closer attention to the shows you watch :/battosai-01 said: Satoshi (NHK)- Same as above, this makes for a more relatable character though and works better considering the genre. What. I don't think he fits. Red_Keys said: tsudman said: How many terrorist organizations have you been forced to become the main pawn of?Red_Keys said: tsudman said: Like who specifically?But when you have other emo characters that are exccesive with their annoying emotions ( they just have to remind you in every episode how ''miserable and sad'' their life is, just constant whining) and they are never developed properly, it's no wonder people dislike them. Shu, Renton, Yuki, Shinji and other Shinji clones. I guess compared to the others, Renton had decent development but that doesn't say much. How is this relevant? you speak as if that was the only time where he acted like that. I don't really remember Shu that much since I didn't really care for him but he was constantly whining or being depressed with a sad look on his face whenever he faced even the tiniest of problems. He wasn't only ''emo'' when he was confronted with danger ( i.e Inori and that blonde dude, his friend, his everyday life, his talk with Haru when she slapped him ?, etc) he was melancholic before the terrorist thing happened. I think the only time that I empathized with him is when a certain character died. His character development is hilarious though, emo > hitler > Jesus. Now that's quality writing. There is a reason for his antisocial behavior. A reason that is crucial to the story, actually. Like, impossible to miss. |
|
Red_Keys said: There is a reason for his antisocial behavior. Reasons dont make them less whiny. As I mentioned before crying does not change anything and it does not help. So there is not a "real" reason to be whiny ever, and it depends on the character how they act. Some would act and do something instead of whining, other would go into silent desperation aka they dont give a fuck what happens anymore and just give up and then there is the group that constantly has to bitch out loud about it. And these are the kind of character we are talking about now. Bad situation or big problem does not mean you HAVE to bitch or that it is a logical consequence. If the character is not bitchy or whiny he wouldnt be whiny trough hardships either. |
baki502Sep 2, 2013 2:34 AM
baki502 said: Reasons dont make them less whiny. As I mentioned before crying does not change anything and it does not help. So there is not a "real" reason to be whiny ever, and it depends on the character how they act. Some would act and do something instead of whining, other would go into silent desperation aka they dont give a fuck what happens anymore and just give up and then there is the group that constantly has to bitch out loud about it. And these are the kind of character we are talking about now. Bad situation or big problem does not mean you HAVE to bitch or that it is a logical consequence. If the character is not bitchy or whiny he wouldnt be trough hardships either. I agree, the problem is that it's constant. Okay we get it, we don't need to hear and read the same monologue describing your shitty life, a 100 time in the same episode. Having reasons like you said doesn't it make it any less whiny or obnoxious. Why should I relate to a character like that? I don't think if I were in Shinji or Shu shoes I would constantly whine and be angsty and depressed for the majority of the show, at some point I would try to adapt to my terrible situation like a normal human being will eventually do. Constant crying won't improve your situation, you are better off killing yourself. And from the characters I mentioned, I believe that only Yuki's situation is that terrible. |
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tsudman said: Hahahaha xDAnd that is? his father? I don't remember. baki502 said: Crying is a typical human response to emotional stress. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=657859&show=0#msg24876641Reasons dont make them less whiny. As I mentioned before crying does not change anything and it does not help. So there is not a "real" reason to be whiny ever, and it depends on the character how they act. Some would act and do something instead of whining, other would go into silent desperation aka they dont give a fuck what happens anymore and just give up and then there is the group that constantly has to bitch out loud about it. And these are the kind of character we are talking about now. Bad situation or big problem does not mean you HAVE to bitch or that it is a logical consequence. If the character is not bitchy or whiny he wouldnt be trough hardships either. And what exactly do you mean by whining? Like, complaining? Talking about their problems? |
|
Red_Keys said: tsudman said: Hahahaha xDAnd that is? his father? I don't remember. baki502 said: Crying is a typical human response to emotional stress. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=657859&show=0#msg24876641Reasons dont make them less whiny. As I mentioned before crying does not change anything and it does not help. So there is not a "real" reason to be whiny ever, and it depends on the character how they act. Some would act and do something instead of whining, other would go into silent desperation aka they dont give a fuck what happens anymore and just give up and then there is the group that constantly has to bitch out loud about it. And these are the kind of character we are talking about now. Bad situation or big problem does not mean you HAVE to bitch or that it is a logical consequence. If the character is not bitchy or whiny he wouldnt be trough hardships either. And what exactly do you mean by whining? Like, complaining? Talking about their problems? Whining = crying/complaining about their problems in an unproductive manner. Nothing speaks against talking about your problem to someone who then gives you advice to solve your problem. But the kind that just cry and dont even want advice or anything just crying for the sake of it annoy the hell out of me. Maybe its because I am more of a logical person than an emotional and I see no logic in crying since its unproductive that I cant relate to whiny characters... |
baki502 said: Kind of like what you're doing in this topic? :SWhining = crying/complaining about their problems in an unproductive manner. baki502 said: Whining, on a psychological level, is exactly this. You are voicing, and as a result bringing attention to, your problems with the hope of getting rid of them. That's what any instance of complaining is. Ever.Nothing speaks against talking about your problem to someone who then gives you advice to solve your problem. baki502 said: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=657859&show=0#msg24876641But the kind that just cry and dont even want advice or anything just crying for the sake of it annoy the hell out of me. Maybe its because I am more of a logical person than an emotional and I see no logic in crying since its unproductive that I cant relate to whiny characters... |
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Red_Keys said: I also with I rather lived in the 1910's and got drafted in WW1, so I could fight in the trenches, because guns are so kewl!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRv56gsqkzs Look at these World War 1 veterans shivering and whining away from their problems like cowards. What effeminate pussies! Why cant they be like real men!!! |
| The Art of Eight |
| I noticed that Kaiji Yuki really does make the characters more annoying, whinny and obnoxious and somewhat more feminine ( Shu, Eren, Haru from accel world, etc) |
|
Red_Keys said: baki502 said: Kind of like what you're doing in this topic? :SWhining = crying/complaining about their problems in an unproductive manner. baki502 said: Whining, on a psychological level, is exactly this. You are voicing, and as a result bringing attention to, your problems with the hope of getting rid of them. That's what any instance of complaining is. Ever.Nothing speaks against talking about your problem to someone who then gives you advice to solve your problem. baki502 said: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=657859&show=0#msg24876641But the kind that just cry and dont even want advice or anything just crying for the sake of it annoy the hell out of me. Maybe its because I am more of a logical person than an emotional and I see no logic in crying since its unproductive that I cant relate to whiny characters... Not quite. The difference is I bring arguments and try to have a discussion while whiny characters just dont want to hear anything other than compassion for their problems. And I never said I was emotionless I just said that I tend to act on thinking and what my brain deems the best solution rather than what my emotions are. |
dankickyou said: Red_Keys said: I also with I rather lived in the 1910's and got drafted in WW1, so I could fight in the trenches, because guns are so kewl!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRv56gsqkzs Look at these World War 1 veterans shivering and whining away from their problems like cowards. What effeminate pussies! Why cant they be like real men!!! Theese men arent pussies. They have seen real terror and they dont even whine about it. What I see are men where their bodies react against their will not men that whine deliberately. |
baki502 said: Your argument is you just whining about characters not behaving in the way you want them to behave. And seeing as how this forum conversation is going to do absolutely nothing resulting in the change of how male characters are written, I'd say it's pretty much you seeking compassion for your problem, instead of actually solving it. :SNot quite. The difference is I bring arguments and try to have a discussion while whiny characters just dont want to hear anything other than compassion for their problems. baki502 said: Probably because you've never been in a situation where your emotions were under severe stress.And I never said I was emotionless I just said that I tend to act on thinking and what my brain deems the best solution rather than what my emotions are. |
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baki502 said: Theese men arent pussies. They have seen real terror and they dont even whine about it. What I see are men where their bodies react against their will not men that whine deliberately. Run away crying when seeing a uniform, jumping under the bed and crying when hearing the word bomb. What sissies! Jesus, even Shinji doesn't jump under the bed when he hears the word Angel. Red_Keys said: baki502 said: Your argument is you just whining about characters not behaving in the way you want them to behave. And seeing as how this forum conversation is going to do absolutely nothing resulting in the change of how male characters are written, I'd say it's pretty much you seeking compassion for your problem, instead of actually solving it. :SNot quite. The difference is I bring arguments and try to have a discussion while whiny characters just dont want to hear anything other than compassion for their problems. LOL |
| The Art of Eight |
| Well. I actually prefer my men to be effeminate. I find it really attractive, when done right. I think Japan has some social thing where men try and be more effeminate (I read it on wikipedia, grain of salt). So, maybe that's it? Edit: I also enjoy crying about my problems. A lot. As in, let me write a novel about my feelings. I can't stand to be in a public place for too long, because I have a problem with expressing emotions in public. |
| Want to talk? Club! "Would you like an anti-psychotic?" *Bonus points if you leave a comment about the meaning of my signature.* |
Slayermaster said: Edit: I also enjoy crying about my problems. A lot. As in, let me write a novel about my feelings. I can't stand to be in a public place for too long, because I have a problem with expressing emotions in public. :D http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbd530nmXl1qmary5o1_500.gif |
| The Art of Eight |
| There are cultural reasons for it. It's not just in anime. But in any case I don't mind it adds more variety. |
dankickyou said: Red_Keys said: I also with I rather lived in the 1910's and got drafted in WW1, so I could fight in the trenches, because guns are so kewl!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRv56gsqkzs Look at these World War 1 veterans shivering and whining away from their problems like cowards. What effeminate pussies! Why cant they be like real men!!! That video is so gay. Watch the manly version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aY2Q6nEh34 |
 |
| Someone tell OP that traps are intended for men to fap to. I wanna see his reaction. |
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