| This is NOT a "Do you like old art better than new art" thread, although I'm sure it may come into play mentally - for some. Recently I picked up Casshern Sins. Episode 11 is up next. Frankly I could care less for the story as presented thus far. Intriguing premise, boring episodes (IMO) BUT, I will not stop watching it b/c I find the art to be absolutely fascinating. The characters seem to glow, practically leaping off the screen. The backgrounds are deep and moody without being "dark" - they sparkle in their own right. I don't want to go on about it b/c this is not a review. But, I find myself mesmerized and suddenly feeling like its some of the most beautiful art I've seen since I started watching anime. Other (subjective) favorites are Redline, FLCL, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, and Ninja Scroll Many may question D and Ninja, but i absolutely love the oldish grit. At this point, I feel like I can't choose objective favorites, I haven't seen enough anime, but I'd love to hear what you guys think. What is your FAVORITE (subjective) art, and what you believe to be your best choices for BEST (objective ) art. And WHY??? Please note, I'm trying to be objective about story - doesn't matter if the story left me cold (Redline) |
| Subjective - One Piece. Everyone says the art is bad, but I think it actually matches the show and manga pretty well. Objective - Can't think of any. I usually don't focus too much on art. If I had to choose, it would be that garden movie where this student is trying to bang his teacher. Forget the name though. |
ssrexAug 12, 2013 7:45 AM
| "But ur a retard." ~Akito_Kinomoto |
| *I couldn't care less As in I couldn't care less about how you can possibly say there is objective (best) art. Your whole wording is confusing and this will be locked for listing. |
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| There is no such thing as an objective opinion, as an opinion is based on personal experiences and other information used to form some position on some issue. Therefore, to call something an "objective favorite" and a "subjective favorite" is akin to simply stating your opinions based on a different set of criteria, one of which you label as subjective and the other as objective, though they are both based on your personal ideas of what is good and bad, thus removing any objective relevance from them. However, since I don't particularly care about the art style per se but rather the animation, I'll respond to your topic with my favorites in that regard. As for my "subjective favorite" (by which I mean I simply like it the most for reasons I cannot fathom into mere words), that'd be Hyouka. The art style gives off a sense of mysteriousness and sometimes even a dark atmosphere whilst still being colorful enough to remind you that the show is indeed lighthearted at heart. The quirky visual style that they sometimes use accentuates it perfectly. Also, the animation is absolutely gorgeous, especially in the first opening sequence. And my "objective favorite" (what I believe to be the best in terms of consistent quality and visual prowess) would be Joshiraku Gunslinger Girl (first season). That series looks absolutely gorgeous. If you were to tell me it was made in 2003, I'd think you were an idiot. Hell, it looks better than 98.61% of what comes out now. It just goes to show that high budget does indeed show. The dark tone always accentuates the story perfectly and lends a sort of ironic tone to the innocent and cheerful lives the girls are trying to live. |
AndyRayyAug 12, 2013 7:52 AM
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AndyRayy said: There is no such thing as an objective opinion, as an opinion is based on personal experiences and other information used to form some position on some issue. Therefore, to call something an "objective favorite" and a "subjective favorite" is akin to simply stating your opinions based on a different set of criteria, one of which you label as subjective and the other as objective, though they are both based on your personal ideas of what is good and bad, thus removing any objective relevance from them. However, since I don't particularly care about the art style per se but rather the animation, I'll respond to your topic with my favorites in that regard. As for my "subjective favorite" (by which I mean I simply like it the most for reasons I cannot fathom into mere words), that'd be Hyouka. The art style gives off a sense of mysterious and sometimes even a dark atmosphere whilst still being colorful enough to remind you that the show is indeed lighthearted at heart. The quirky visual style that they sometimes use accentuates it perfectly. Also, the animation is absolutely gorgeous, especially in the first opening sequence. And my "objective favorite" (what I believe to be the best in terms of consistent quality and visual prowess) would be Joshiraku Gunslinger Girl (first season). That series looks absolutely gorgeous. If you were to tell me it was made in 2003, I'd think you an idiot. Hell, it looks better than 98.61% of what comes out now. It just goes to show that high budget does indeed show. The dark tone always accentuates the story perfectly and lends a sort of ironic tone to the innocent and cheerful lives the girls are trying to live. i appreciate the thoughtfulness of your reply. I suppose what I am getting at when i say "objective" is anime that are regarded as extremely well rendered by the majority of fans - if such a thing is possible. like i said, i don't think i am as qualified as most of the board to choose what may be the "best" or perhaps "most well regarded" anime - perhaps that phrase would be better in this case ^^ bbl off to the beach |
daintybiscuit said: I suppose what I am getting at when i say "objective" is anime that are regarded as extremely well rendered by the majority of fans - if such a thing is possible. A lot of people saying something is good does not make it objectively good. |
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| There is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to art. But on topic: Texhnolyze, Mawaru Penguindrum, Angel Beats!, Redline, Garden of Words, 5 Cm Per Second and Haruhi are some of my favorites. |
| Oh God, you said objective. How dare you imply that the Mona Lisa is objectively better art than the stick-figure drawing I did when I was a child? That being said: My favorite art work would be: Cowboy Bebop, but I don't know enough about art to say whether or not there is anything I've seen that is of higher quality. |
| Let's go bowling. |
TallonKarrde23 said: daintybiscuit said: I suppose what I am getting at when i say "objective" is anime that are regarded as extremely well rendered by the majority of fans - if such a thing is possible. A lot of people saying something is good does not make it objectively good. Wait... But that means... Code Geass R2 is not actually top 10 material? Mind=BLOWN. |
| Ooo, what a lovely tea party. |
| Are you talking about art style or animation? |
Eckilsax said: TallonKarrde23 said: daintybiscuit said: I suppose what I am getting at when i say "objective" is anime that are regarded as extremely well rendered by the majority of fans - if such a thing is possible. A lot of people saying something is good does not make it objectively good. Wait... But that means... Code Geass R2 is not actually top 10 material? Mind=BLOWN. What. |
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StopDropAndBowl said: Oh God, you said objective. How dare you imply that the Mona Lisa is objectively better art than the stick-figure drawing I did when I was a child? That being said: My favorite art work would be: Cowboy Bebop, but I don't know enough about art to say whether or not there is anything I've seen that is of higher quality. I honestly never understood why the mona lisa is held so dearly. I honestly find the drawings in Elfen Lieds OP which are drawn by Gustav Klimt alot better than Mona Lisa. Nothing that is perceptioned by our 5 senses is objective. |
baki502 said: perceptioned That's not a word. |
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| My Favourite Art work is from Last Exile Both seasons :) Something about how they animated them back then makes me feel that its really beautiful. I would have thought the public would love anything Ghibli draws because the works are indeed quality works. |
| I'm an Avid Slice of Life fan, if you have any interesting SoL anime/manga to introduce, please do so ^^, Just your typical Yandere lover :3 |
| I like the art from Nichijou and Yuru Yuri best. I also fail to understand "objective" art, it even seems a bit ironic that you put the 'objective' word before one like 'art'. Maybe someone can explain it to a pleb like me. |
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| Subjective: Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann! Six consecutive days watching this. My best anime experience ever. Objective: It doesn't exist since you can't proof that X anime is better than Y. In a phrase: "Objective ratings in anime is nothing more than people trying to label your opinion like a fact." |
Mokkan said: SlothieSloth said: I like the art from Nichijou and Yuru Yuri best. I also fail to understand "objective" art, it even seems a bit ironic that you put the 'objective' word before one like 'art'. Maybe someone can explain it to a pleb like me. Objectivity doesn't exist regarding anime/art. Only stupid people think otherwise. There is if we're talking animation |
MclovinballsAug 12, 2013 1:22 PM
Mokkan said: SlothieSloth said: I like the art from Nichijou and Yuru Yuri best. I also fail to understand "objective" art, it even seems a bit ironic that you put the 'objective' word before one like 'art'. Maybe someone can explain it to a pleb like me. Objectivity doesn't exist regarding anime/art. Only stupid people think otherwise. What takes more creativity: whistling a little tune, or composing a symphony? |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: Mokkan said: SlothieSloth said: I like the art from Nichijou and Yuru Yuri best. I also fail to understand "objective" art, it even seems a bit ironic that you put the 'objective' word before one like 'art'. Maybe someone can explain it to a pleb like me. Objectivity doesn't exist regarding anime/art. Only stupid people think otherwise. What takes more creativity: whistling a little tune, or composing a symphony? Taking creativity doesn't make something objectively more good or bad. That's like saying you're a better more trustworthy person because you can drive a stick shift. You're measuring something based on completely and hilariously unrelated information. Not to mention neither really takes more creativity than the other - composing a symphony would take more skill (you have to know how to compose, so yeah it's legitimately more difficult), not necessarily more creativity. |
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| But artwork, as with everything else is subjective. Is there a point to this...? |
| "The more inexperienced you are, the more you want to show off." - Oreki, Hyouka |
Dolan-chan said: ^ The fault lies in the logic of your own comparison, Tallon. But yeah, taking creativity makes something objectively better. Someone CAN like the other thing nonetheless, but it's still objectively inferior. 4 is simply bigger than 1. Prove that composing a symphony takes more creativity - not talent, not skill, not ability, not knowledge, but specifically creativity. Then we can further discuss how wrong you are anyway, but please, try to prove how much "creativity" something takes to me. Also 4 and 1 are factual data. Symphony vs whistling is not. |
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StopDropAndBowl said: Mokkan said: SlothieSloth said: I like the art from Nichijou and Yuru Yuri best. I also fail to understand "objective" art, it even seems a bit ironic that you put the 'objective' word before one like 'art'. Maybe someone can explain it to a pleb like me. Objectivity doesn't exist regarding anime/art. Only stupid people think otherwise. What takes more creativity: whistling a little tune, or composing a symphony? Whistling that little tune it the start of the symphony, once you get the hard part of finding the main melody, you can just use music theory to write the rest. |
Dolan-chan said: But if we've established that each unit is a good thing, then increment makes it simply better. Life has facts, whether you like them or not. You just have to accept them. Oh so you're just trolling. Okay. There is no "unit" measurement of creativity so you proved yourself wrong by the way. Same with numbers - 4 is not actually better than one (actually, 1 is usually the best in most contexts). Numbers have no 'better' or 'worse' attached to them. They are data, they aren't - on their own - better or worse than one another in any way. I'm not arguing with another le epic trollface so fahnny kid on this goddamn site, so I'm done replying to you. |
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Mokkan said: TallonKarrde23 said: Dolan-chan said: But if we've established that each unit is a good thing, then increment makes it simply better. Life has facts, whether you like them or not. You just have to accept them. Oh so you're just trolling. Okay. There is no "unit" measurement of creativity so you proved yourself wrong by the way. I'm not arguing with another le epic trollface so fahnny kid on this goddamn site, so I'm done replying to you. You might as well not reply to this entire site, especially on threads where there's destined to be opinion clashes. That's why I leave for a few months every now and then. And this isn't an opinion clash, this is someone being factually wrong and arguing just to "le trolld u XDDD gonna poast dis on radditz ;)". |
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| Maybe I should've phrased that more delicately... |
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TallonKarrde23 said: Good or bad being defined as...? Does it make it morally good? No. Does a lack of creativity make it bad art as in: "This art is not of a high quality"? Yes. StopDropAndBowl said: Mokkan said: SlothieSloth said: I like the art from Nichijou and Yuru Yuri best. I also fail to understand "objective" art, it even seems a bit ironic that you put the 'objective' word before one like 'art'. Maybe someone can explain it to a pleb like me. Objectivity doesn't exist regarding anime/art. Only stupid people think otherwise. What takes more creativity: whistling a little tune, or composing a symphony? Taking creativity doesn't make something objectively more good or bad. That's like saying you're a better more trustworthy person because you can drive a stick shift. You're measuring something based on completely and hilariously unrelated information. Not to mention neither really takes more creativity than the other - composing a symphony would take more skill (you have to know how to compose, so yeah it's legitimately more difficult), not necessarily more creativity. So a thing that takes more skill, more knowledge, more talent, more effort, more crafting, and more creativity... is not of objectively higher quality than the thing that takes less skill, less knowledge, less talent, less effort, less crafting, and less creativity? That's taking the subjectivity inherent with enjoyment too far. Not to mention it's basically a tautology: judgement is subjective therefore no judgement is objective. Whistling one tune is creating one singular melody. Even the most basic symphony would require multiple melodies and also incorporate harmonies. It would unarguably take more creative power to come up with multiple original compositions than one single composition, all other things being equal. |
StopDropAndBowlAug 12, 2013 1:43 PM
| Let's go bowling. |
| holy crap!!! sorry for pissing so many of you off - i guess i've just been thinking about this - the concept of objectively good art. the reason i didn't give any examples is b/c i don't freaking know either! anyways, this thread has obviously taken a weird turn by itself. never meant to offend anyone or anything, this is sort of a nebulous debate that has been going on in my head and perhaps was just awfully misworded. Doesn't seem to be worth trying to revive at this point. |
| I assumed objective art is art that gets the job done appropriately. Not an anime example, but Vagabond really captures the feel of the time, therefore I think it completes its goal of creating the atmosphere. Despite how well it does the job, the artstyle turned my brother off. I think this is when things get 'subjective'. No matter how well something is done, there are people that simply don't enjoy the art. But I am confused now after reading this thread. Please educate me, I am merely a 17 year old that doesn't know any better. |
| Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.). Fanservice ≠ Ecchi (Though ecchi can please the fans!) Popular ≠ Sucks... maybe Seinen = K-ON! Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei are demographics. Anime/Manga = Japanese Cartoons! Deal with it. Support Movember. Raise awareness of men's health issues. Put a mustache on your avatars or something... |
ssrex said: If I had to choose, it would be that garden movie where this student is trying to bang his teacher. Forget the name though. LOL Kotonoha no Niwa |
| Inferno Cop is objectively the best. |
Norse said: Okashi_sama said: Inferno Cop is objectively the best. And I smell necros lurking. |
| Objectively, HxH, SSY, Death Note, Berserk, Bakemono, etc... Subjectively, now that's interesting...hmm... FF7 Advent Children I guess... I know the story isn't much but I just think it's a masterpiece, it has the best action/choreography of any medium out there. |
| End Zionazism |
daintybiscuit said: Many may question D and Ninja, but i absolutely love the oldish grit. What is your FAVORITE (subjective) art, and what you believe to be your best choices for BEST (objective ) art. And WHY??? Yes, another fan of grit art. I am not alone! Objective best for art, I would say 5 Centimetres per Second. Subjective favourite for art, I love RahXephon and Gungrave (more grit. Grrrr!) |
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