A Certain Magical Index (light novel)
TinkleTinkle-Hoy said: TallonKarrde23 said: TinkleTinkle-Hoy said: I wanted to like this series, but I just didn't. It's basically just an ok shounen mixed with school life. Index has way too much...Index. I only got through one episode of railgun, thought it was supposed to be better(maybe it is...) Then just immediatly started assuming the people who say that aren't very reliable when the first episode had stuff like this... Which is funny given ONLY the first episode has stuff like that. After that episode 2 and 3 have some small Kuroko fanservice, but then there's nothing. This is literally the ONLY TIME in the ENTIRE series where anyone but Kuroko has anything remotely near fanservice/ecchi material. You used to say you were more open minded but clearly if you judge a series off of 15 seconds in episode 1 you're beyond biased and hilariously judgmental. If that really is true I will give it a second chance. Cause I like the world, I just had a similar issue with Index. Misaka is a cool character as well, I just wouldn't really be into her just becoming lolicon fanservice. You can't deny that episode had tons of fanservice, and the only other thing I had seen about railgun was a clip on Funimations you tube channel of them trying on bathing suits. I got no issues with bewbs & buttz, I just tend to prefer them more...developed. Plus more so then the fan service my main issue was with her lesbian friend, who to me seemed like she was there JUST for those moments. It just didn't seem necessary, and knowing when I dislike something doesn't really have anything to do with being open minded. Being open minded comes into play more with things that are new, not things I've seen already. I'll give it a second chance if you really say there's not tons of loli fan service. If you don't like fanservice and cute girls, stay away from it. But I tell you it's worth for the second season. Since that one actually has a plot and a pretty good executed one! |
| I am falling, I am fading, I am drowning, help me to breathe. |
| ^ Yes making up bullshit(not to mention the out of context parts)and ignoring the bad moments of Railgun is very unbiased and mature/sarcasm. |
Forgetfulness said: ssjokg said: ^ Yes making up bullshit(not to mention the out of context parts)and ignoring the bad moments of Railgun is very unbiased and mature/sarcasm. Well firstly, I obviously wasn't being serious. Secondly, all 3 scenarios I described HAVE showed up in the Index series several times and it's annoying IMO Thirdly, when did I ever mention Railgun? And all of them are out of context and when did Index's quirks became important for the show(Bullshit part).Because I can mention several scenes similar to this from other shows that could make a series less enjoyable.For example Kuroko's perversion. Railgun Op and I have your reply in a recent thread fresh in my head. |
ssjokgJul 8, 2013 5:23 PM
Forgetfulness said: Found this thread while going through forum pages and...just had to bash Index :) Okay, play this music: Now read these two posts: Yup said: Index: TOUMA I'M HUNGRY TOUMA I WANT A CAT TOUMA I WANT ATTENTION TOUMA I WAS LEFT ALONE WHILE YOU WERE AT SCHOOL TOUMA THERE'S NO FOOD EXPECT THE FOOD I ATE TEN MINUTES AGO TOUMA I'M GOING TO BITE YOU FOR NO REASON TOUMA TOUMA TOUMA TOUMA TOUMA TOUMA TOUMA Forgetfulness said: Scenario 1 -Touma: *I'm going to do something retarded and put myself in a position where I look like a pervert* -Index: "Toooooooooooooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmaaaa" -Index bites Touma- Scenario 2 -Touma: "Oh, so you're some magician/scientist. I have no fucking idea who you are or what your goals are, but because you hurt -insert some girl he just met and barely knows-, I'm going to have to stop you -Touma runs at his enemy with his right hand out while screaming "OOOOOOOOOHHHH" -Some magic is thrown at him but it's cancelled -Touma one-shots the enemy I have literally just described the majority of the Index series As if railgun didn't have similar shit with kuroko. Railgun fans sure are the worst. |
Forgetfulness said: Also, if Index wasn't so important, perhaps they would have done better by not showing her stupidity at least every single arc But that's wrong. Forgetfulness said: Vanisher said: Railgun fans sure are the worst. Way to copy someone else's argument and then act like you're all "superior" afterwards. Way to ignore the argument. Or wait, your answer was that you didn't dislike it so it was done better? You said it, it's just your taste. |
| Not, because Mikasa is stupid. |
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Forgetfulness said: Vanisher said: Forgetfulness said: Vanisher said: Railgun fans sure are the worst. Way to copy someone else's argument and then act like you're all "superior" afterwards. Way to ignore the argument. Or wait, your answer was that you didn't dislike it so it was done better? You said it, it's just your taste. I disliked them both(although Index is slightly more annoying than Kuroko). Railgun was done better because of other parts in the series. I never said Railgun > Index was simply because Index annoying and retarded Also, consider this for a moment: Kuroko also does dumb shit in the Index series, while Index doesn't do dumb shit in the Railgun series You should've started there. You didn't say it, but your comments really implied that that was your reason for saying that index is worse. |
Forgetfulness said: ssjokg said: Forgetfulness said: ssjokg said: ^ Yes making up bullshit(not to mention the out of context parts)and ignoring the bad moments of Railgun is very unbiased and mature/sarcasm. Well firstly, I obviously wasn't being serious. Secondly, all 3 scenarios I described HAVE showed up in the Index series several times and it's annoying IMO Thirdly, when did I ever mention Railgun? And all of them are out of context and when did Index's quirks became important for the show(Bullshit part).Because I can mention several scenes similar to this from other shows that could make a series less enjoyable.For example Kuroko's perversion. Railgun Op and I have your reply in a recent thread fresh in my head. Okay, they might be out of context but I honestly don't think they're much better in context. Perhaps a few times out of various arcs his actions may be justified, like but there are an equal number of times that this isn't true I dont understand why it is bad for someone to try and save others even if he doesnt know them.Are you saying that he should had just ignored Index and several others? I mean looking at your favs you like Kiritsugu so what better reason does he have to save the entire world?Is the reason that he had a tragic past?Touma too had a bad life(but still normal compared to Kiritusgu) because of his power and that is the reason he was sent in Academy City As for Orsola it was his fault that she was taken by the enemy it makes sense to help her afterwards. |
| They're alright. I didn't particularly care for the 2nd season of Index but I think the 2nd season of Railgun is great so far. Honestly, I'd probably watch both Index series first and then watch Railgun. It'll be a bit jarring since there is no real good way to watch them chronologically so you might as well go by sides. |
Toucanbird said: The best way to watch them if you want to mix them,IMO is,Railgun,Index,Railgun S,Index II.They're alright. I didn't particularly care for the 2nd season of Index but I think the 2nd season of Railgun is great so far. Honestly, I'd probably watch both Index series first and then watch Railgun. It'll be a bit jarring since there is no real good way to watch them chronologically so you might as well go by sides. Then again it may be weird for someone that doesnt know about Index to fall into the Magic Side after watching Railgun's Science Side. |
ssjokg said: Whatever floats your boat, ssjokg. Toucanbird said: The best way to watch them if you want to mix them,IMO is,Railgun,Index,Railgun S,Index II.They're alright. I didn't particularly care for the 2nd season of Index but I think the 2nd season of Railgun is great so far. Honestly, I'd probably watch both Index series first and then watch Railgun. It'll be a bit jarring since there is no real good way to watch them chronologically so you might as well go by sides. Then again it may be weird for someone that doesnt know about Index to fall into the Magic Side after watching Railgun's Science Side. I don't think there is a wrong way to watch them other than watching the season 2s before the season 1s...even though that's probably one of the most redundant statements of all-time. |
Forgetfulness said: Agreed. Index (the character) is probably the main reason why I don't like Index (the show) all that much. And I guess it wasn't surprising to see people quickly defend Touma, but his shtick is really no different than your very average shounen MC. And while some people will say that Mikoto is no different in Railgun....it comes down to likability. For me, Mikoto is very likable and much more easier to accept compared to Touma. This is why I recommended the OP to watch BOTH shows and let him be the judge instead of taking advice from all of us who in one way or another have some bias. |
Toucanbird said: ssjokg said: Whatever floats your boat, ssjokg. Toucanbird said: The best way to watch them if you want to mix them,IMO is,Railgun,Index,Railgun S,Index II.They're alright. I didn't particularly care for the 2nd season of Index but I think the 2nd season of Railgun is great so far. Honestly, I'd probably watch both Index series first and then watch Railgun. It'll be a bit jarring since there is no real good way to watch them chronologically so you might as well go by sides. Then again it may be weird for someone that doesnt know about Index to fall into the Magic Side after watching Railgun's Science Side. I don't think there is a wrong way to watch them other than watching the season 2s before the season 1s...even though that's probably one of the most redundant statements of all-time. Well it was also the way they were aired so I didnt have any other choice XD What if I tell you that there are people that watched Index II,Higurashi Kai , FZ 2nd and Haruhi movie before watching the first seasons? |
| I really don't understand the hate Touma gets for helping those who are in needs, i mean, what do you want him to do...? When Index was hanging on his balcony, is Touma supposed to just leave her there...? Or when Accelerator was about to kill the Misaka sisters, is he supposed to just abandon them since it's none of his business whatsoever? |
teddygamer said: I really don't understand the hate Touma gets for helping those who are in needs, i mean, what do you want him to do...? When Index was hanging on his balcony, is Touma supposed to just leave her there...? Or when Accelerator was about to kill the Misaka sisters, is he supposed to just abandon them since it's none of his business whatsoever? For me it's not necessarily that Touma is doing anything wrong per se... It's just the way they present his character that annoys me. Supposedly he's some average guy who's a level zero and bad luck constantly follows him. But somehow he's more than capable of taking down insanely powerful bad guys by punching them. OK....whatever, that's typical shounen shit. But then they constantly put him in these ecchi situations and of course index has to bite him or hit him or do some unnecessary bullshit. For god sakes, am I watching a shounen or an ecchi anime with your typical MC who always has "misunderstandings"? |
JustALEX said: teddygamer said: I really don't understand the hate Touma gets for helping those who are in needs, i mean, what do you want him to do...? When Index was hanging on his balcony, is Touma supposed to just leave her there...? Or when Accelerator was about to kill the Misaka sisters, is he supposed to just abandon them since it's none of his business whatsoever? For me it's not necessarily that Touma is doing anything wrong per se... It's just the way they present his character that annoys me. Supposedly he's some average guy who's a level zero and bad luck constantly follows him. But somehow he's more than capable of taking down insanely powerful bad guys by punching them. OK....whatever, that's typical shounen shit. But then they constantly put him in these ecchi situations and of course index has to bite him or hit him or do some unnecessary bullshit. For god sakes, am I watching a shounen or an ecchi anime with your typical MC who always has "misunderstandings"? Personally, i always see the ecchi as a way of the author to point out some of the ironic "misfortunate" part that Touma always mentions whenever something incredibly (un)lucky happens to him ( like seeing a girl naked, for example ), and for some supposedly comedic moment...sorry if it's a little bit hard to understand, this is as far as my english could take me... |
Toucanbird said: ssjokg said: Whatever floats your boat, ssjokg. Toucanbird said: The best way to watch them if you want to mix them,IMO is,Railgun,Index,Railgun S,Index II.They're alright. I didn't particularly care for the 2nd season of Index but I think the 2nd season of Railgun is great so far. Honestly, I'd probably watch both Index series first and then watch Railgun. It'll be a bit jarring since there is no real good way to watch them chronologically so you might as well go by sides. Then again it may be weird for someone that doesnt know about Index to fall into the Magic Side after watching Railgun's Science Side. I don't think there is a wrong way to watch them other than watching the season 2s before the season 1s...even though that's probably one of the most redundant statements of all-time. Im actually watching railgun S without watching railgun. |
Vanisher said: Toucanbird said: ssjokg said: Whatever floats your boat, ssjokg. Toucanbird said: The best way to watch them if you want to mix them,IMO is,Railgun,Index,Railgun S,Index II.They're alright. I didn't particularly care for the 2nd season of Index but I think the 2nd season of Railgun is great so far. Honestly, I'd probably watch both Index series first and then watch Railgun. It'll be a bit jarring since there is no real good way to watch them chronologically so you might as well go by sides. Then again it may be weird for someone that doesnt know about Index to fall into the Magic Side after watching Railgun's Science Side. I don't think there is a wrong way to watch them other than watching the season 2s before the season 1s...even though that's probably one of the most redundant statements of all-time. Im actually watching railgun S without watching railgun. That's possible but it's much more enjoyable if you at least watched either railgun1 or index1. |
| I am falling, I am fading, I am drowning, help me to breathe. |
JustALEX said: teddygamer said: I really don't understand the hate Touma gets for helping those who are in needs, i mean, what do you want him to do...? When Index was hanging on his balcony, is Touma supposed to just leave her there...? Or when Accelerator was about to kill the Misaka sisters, is he supposed to just abandon them since it's none of his business whatsoever? For me it's not necessarily that Touma is doing anything wrong per se... It's just the way they present his character that annoys me. Supposedly he's some average guy who's a level zero and bad luck constantly follows him. But somehow he's more than capable of taking down insanely powerful bad guys by punching them. OK....whatever, that's typical shounen shit. But then they constantly put him in these ecchi situations and of course index has to bite him or hit him or do some unnecessary bullshit. For god sakes, am I watching a shounen or an ecchi anime with your typical MC who always has "misunderstandings"? He is supposedly an average guy because before all that he had nothing to worry about while he was inside Academy City.About level 0 Wiki: You are saying all of this as if he just beats them without reason. Anime only: Stiyl:Stiyl is 14 years old and adept only with magic and his opponent -somehow(from Stiyl's POV)- was able to beat all of his attacks. Kanzaki beat him to a pulp Index:He received help from both Stiyl and Kanzaki Izzard:It was thanks to Stiyl's magic that his attacks missed Touma when Touma went "berserk".Not to mention that Izzard was beaten by Accelerator:Accelerator Tsuchimikado beat him to a pulp Etzali:His weapon is flawed and isnt as strong as any other male char that gets enough screentime. Ouma:Even Index that has no power at all would be able to beat him.She didnt because she wanted to know what is going on. Sherry & Ellis:Touma just has to touch Ellis and it is over.Sherry isnt physically strong. Amakusa Forces:He had help from Index and Stiyl Angese Forces:Same as the above plus the Amakusa forces Oriana:Everyone fought her and in end he was aided by Stiyl Bishop Busoni:Same as Styil only weaker in offensive magic. Vento:Touma had an advantage because of Fuse=Kazakiri. Hamazura:Both are about equal in strength but Touma is far more experienced,just look at the above. Just like Misaka the majority of the fights ends in their(MCs) victory because other people helped them. |
ssjokgJul 9, 2013 6:05 AM
| What i still find hard to believe till now is that Stiyl is 14 years old and Komoe sensei is 40 years old... |
teddygamer said: What i still find hard to believe till now is that Stiyl is 14 years old and Komoe sensei is 40 years old... Well he is just tall.Not that weird.Rare but not impossible to happen As for Komoe...well we know that she is just the older female that appeared till Vol 5.We dont know Aiho's age as well.But yeah her age would be between 30 and 40.And I think the only reason for her appearance is the comedy. |
Forgetfulness said: Hm, I've thought about this for a while. Maybe I am being a hypocrite, but IMO Touma is far less likable than other characters I've seen. Also, I want to clarify that I don't have that much of a problem with him wanting to save people, it's more about how he goes about doing it. The fact that he doesn't even know what he's doing it for is just bonus things to bash on :3 Also, I'm going to compare Touma to Shirou from Fate/StayNight in this post instead for obvious reasons. I think two of the main reasons why I hate one but am ok with the other is because: -Touma and Shirou both do really dumb things when they try to run in and save people, but when Shirou does something stupid, he is punished quite hard for it. He's had his heart pierced and like his whole side destroyed when he stepped out of line. The worst that happens to Touma is his arm getting cut off by Izzard, and most arcs he doesn't get more than some cuts/bruises/nothing really fatal. It feels like Touma do whatever and chances are he'll come out alright. -Shirou actually develops over the course of the story while Touma just does the same thing. Shirou learns magic, swordsmanship, projection, etc. so that he can fight and protect people while Touma just runs in and tries to grab stuff with his right hand. He did it at the beginning of the series, he does it at the end. tl;dr From the information given in the anime(they did not explain his past in the anime) Touma seems like just a typical retarded and unrealistic shounen MC. No work, no training, no real motives, just runs in and saves his gurlz with no fatal consequences 10 times out of 10. Anime only: -You seem to forget that Shirou has an almighty Noble Phantasm inside him that cures him anyway in just one night when attacks like the one from Berserker should have been instant kills not to mention that it drove away the strongest Servant giving both him and Saber a chance to live.Touma on the other hand is severely injured in many fights and ends up staying in the hospital for the majority of his free time(this has became a joke both in-universe and in the fandom).Also Shirou getting his heart pierced doesnt count since he just happened to be there,he wasnt trying to save anyone. Even if it isnt fatal Touma has to start ALL of his relationships from the beginning after his memory loss.Shirou is "punished" for his actions only in the last route that hasnt been a animated yet. -Here is the "problem" Touma has because to his own power.He cant learn any esper power,your powers are already decided when you enter the city,and he cant learn any magic because he followed the esper curriculum even though he was an LVL 0.And even if he could learn magic he wouldnt be able to use any because of Imagine Breaker.Shirou on the other knew magic before and had the right teachers for both magic and swordsmanship with the latter ending up useless anyway since he just kept coping Archer's fighting style instead of Saber's.What Touma does is building experience from each fight allowing him to read some of the fight. Tsuchimikado would be able to train him to use weapons but it is Tsuchimikado's own choice to leave him out from the City's dark side as much as he can. Shirou on the other hand can use Projection(something that can even kill him if he keeps using it) endlessly as long as he has Avalon inside him while Touma cant even rely on others to use magic on him to heal or support him in some way because Imagine Breaker will just cancel anything they do. No work:Should he have one?He would be fired anyway after staying in the hospital for the majority of time. No training:See training part above. No motives:You cant be serious now.You have watched both FSN and UBW,you should know that Shirou saves people not because he gets pleasure from it or thinks is the right thing to do but because Kiritsugu seemed happy. Shirou is as empty as Kirei is inside,just copying someone else trying to find happiness. Touma on the other hand wants to save people because he wants to save them,because he cant accept that they are suffering because of some random(for him) bastard's ridiculous plan and beliefs.If you want a reason for that,it is in the Angel Fall arc where his father explains it with that he was called the Plague and people both adults and kids distanced themselves from him for things he wasnt responsible for(we know that "misfortune" only hits him not the people around him and they didnt even know what Imagine Breaker is),although they did omit a crucial part I posted above: |
ssjokgJul 10, 2013 2:26 AM
Forgetfulness said: @ssjokg -Well, yes I know that they both heal up after. What I was getting at was that having your side destroyed is clearly much more painful than having your arm cut off/some minor injuries. Also, they might actually learn from their experiences instead of just run in screaming "OOOOOOHHHHHHHH" and still come out alright every goddamn time -I guess Touma can't do much given the limits provided. Sure he has reasons, but IMO it's still annoying how he doesn't have to do shit and wins most of the time. I'm pretty sure another part of Shirou's motives is because he was the only one who survived the disaster. Something about him feeling guilty cause he was the only one who survived out of many people(don't remember exactly >_<). Also, lol @ "No work:Should he have one?He would be fired anyway after staying in the hospital for the majority of time." I meant work as in putting in effort to achieve something, not working as in getting a job That is the point,Touma is able to beat stronger foes later on because he gets experience from each fight.One of his skills if you want to call it that,is precognition that characters in the series have commented on like Accelerator and some that appears way later,with some enemies trying to make him unable to read the flow of fight.And as I said some posts above he didnt won the majority of his fights just by punching away or by fighting alone. I dont get how having your arm cut off isnt as painful or dangerous but I guess how it looks(it is anime after all) like matters. -No work: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=624763&show=60#msg23335703 If you want I can go in details for most of them.Even in his first fight with Stiyl he put a lot of effort to just call it typical shounen fight or "didnt do shit". His main motive is that he wanted to feel like Kiritsugu.That is also one of the key points of all 3 routes.His Ideal.His participation in the war is to prevent a second destruction happening.His suicidal actions,like saving Saber from Berserker in the beginning are part of his ideal. I wonder,would you accept guilt,if it existed, as a motive for Touma? I am not asking you to like Touma but I dont believe it is right to say that he "didnt do shit" or has no reason to help them. |
ssjokgJul 10, 2013 11:02 AM
| Railgun S >>>>>> Railgun = Index II > Index I This is the best to worst in my opinion, but I enjoyed all the series |
Vanisher said: You pretty much need to watch index 1 for railgun 2 at least. As someone who has not seen Index at all, I can say that this statement is completely wrong. |
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Forgetfulness said: ssjokg said: Forgetfulness said: @ssjokg -Well, yes I know that they both heal up after. What I was getting at was that having your side destroyed is clearly much more painful than having your arm cut off/some minor injuries. Also, they might actually learn from their experiences instead of just run in screaming "OOOOOOHHHHHHHH" and still come out alright every goddamn time -I guess Touma can't do much given the limits provided. Sure he has reasons, but IMO it's still annoying how he doesn't have to do shit and wins most of the time. I'm pretty sure another part of Shirou's motives is because he was the only one who survived the disaster. Something about him feeling guilty cause he was the only one who survived out of many people(don't remember exactly >_<). Also, lol @ "No work:Should he have one?He would be fired anyway after staying in the hospital for the majority of time." I meant work as in putting in effort to achieve something, not working as in getting a job That is the point,Touma is able to beat stronger foes later on because he gets experience from each fight.One of his skills if you want to call it that,is precognition that characters in the series have commented on like Accelerator and some that appears way later,with some enemies trying to make him unable to read the flow of fight.And as I said some posts above he didnt won the majority of his fights just by punching away or by fighting alone. I dont get how having your arm cut off isnt as painful or dangerous but I guess how it looks(it is anime after all) like matters. -No work: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=624763&show=60#msg23335703 If you want I can go in details for most of them.Even in his first fight with Stiyl he put a lot of effort to just call it typical shounen fight or "didnt do shit". His main motive is that he wanted to feel like Kiritsugu.That is also one of the key points of all 3 routes.His Ideal.His participation in the war is to prevent a second destruction happening.His suicidal actions,like saving Saber from Berserker in the beginning are part of his ideal. I wonder,would you accept guilt,if it existed, as a motive for Touma? I am not asking you to like Touma but I dont believe it is right to say that he "didnt do shit" or has no reason to help them. Maybe I wasn't really paying attention or they didn't mention it in the anime, but I never noticed this "he gets experience" thing. IIRC, Shirou went unconscious like instantly after getting hit by Berskerker.After Touma got his arm cut off, he could still fight and do his maniac laugh thing. Also, I'm pretty sure Shirou has a stronger body since he exercises every day and stuff. So yeah... -Well everyone puts in work during a fight. I mean like he doesn't really prepare for it beforehand by improving his skills. And yeah, I know he can't, but it's still annoying to me Also, I found this in a wiki on Shirou "Due to the trauma he suffered during the great fire, Shirou has a constant emptiness in his personality and suffers from tremendous survivor's guilt. He feels that, as the only survivor, it is unfair to the deceased to prioritize his own needs before those of others". That's also one of the reasons he wants to help people I might accept that motive if I read the LN or whatever has all the info. But I haven't and probably won't so I'm just using the information I got from the anime. I still have my hands full with F/SN and after that I'll read F/Z, KnK, and S;G They never said it. The thing is Deep Blood arc was there as foreshadowing.In sort Touma gets into fights all the time even before the start of the series,even the narration states "In a fight against delinquents, he could win with 1 on 1, he was in danger with 1 on 2, and he would unhesitatingly run away with 1 on 3. That was the extent of his skill.".As for his exercises(I assume you mean non magic ones)they really dont matter in the fights of FSN.ALL of his power comes from copying other people's powers.Not just the weapons.For example if he copies Berserker's axe-sword he will also get his stats that are needed to use it.That is only if Shirou knows how to do it. As I said would you accept that as a reason for Touma.OFC unless I forgot something he has no such thing About Shirou the main reason,that is also the main part of the plot is Kiritsugu's ideal. |
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