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Kids Station Responds that No Korean In Hetalia Anime [Updated on Jan 15]

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Jan 13, 2009 10:24 PM

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windy said:
Approved.
If I'm correct, there's a Prussia too, right? Which is similar to the Sealand thing. (Hetalia noob here sorry if I'm wrong)
Yes, there's a Prussia. I had to check my book to remember him ^_^;; (which has a nice profile listing of everyone). There's a Taiwan too and they certainly had their run-ins with the Japanese around WWII times as well.
 
Jan 13, 2009 10:28 PM

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I would say Koreans shouldn't make such a big fuss cos this is Japan you know >.< even though if we really did have a bad history with Japan and a lot of Koreans wouldn't like Japan as a country cos of that T__T but still it's just an anime/manga ~ not worth it really :P
 
Jan 13, 2009 10:30 PM

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Why as korean even mad ? at least they got into the dang thing, wheres the luv for canada D:
 
Jan 13, 2009 10:37 PM

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Icy-nee-san said:
Why as korean even mad ? at least they got into the dang thing, wheres the luv for canada D:
he's not going to be in it?!!? i thought he just wasn't in our DB...
 
Jan 14, 2009 2:00 AM

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its probably also due to the fact that Corea holds a lot of animosity towards Japan.
 
Jan 14, 2009 3:03 AM

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Which is undestandably enough given the history, but then Germany/Preussia is mocked aswell, now you don't see me throwing a fit over that (im german). Its all been in the long long past, so who cares really.. (Ok, BAD comparision, i know history ;p)

Anyway, I understand why the uproar is, still anime is anime... not like anyone is gonna like korea more or less based on this. But if this was a PR-Stunt then it was well executed, because i hadn't heard of this anime either. Oh well ;p
 
Jan 14, 2009 3:24 AM

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Boo freaking hoo Korea
Seriously you should grow up
My Grandfather is a holocust survivor and one of my favorite mangas is Hellsing that has the wholel Nazi army half way through the manga till the end
One of my favorite Hellsing characthers is Rip Van Winkle and she was a Nazi
Believe me Jews had it tough and we still do with how a lot of the world view us
but so freaking what?if something is good I will read/watch it
if something is funny but offensive I will still laugh because it's freaking funny

My point is Hetalia is a gag manga
it's like Azumanga Daioh with countries and I wish it had more countries (I am waiting for a little Israel to come up and that the mangaka will make fun of because I am sure it will be funny)
Will you ban Azumanga Daiou if Osaka was Korean?
 
Jan 14, 2009 4:56 AM

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Ah qq and keep playing sc
[url=http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Lunatic-kr&sclick=1]

 
Jan 14, 2009 6:20 AM

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whiteday26 said:
Japanese studio already have agreed to do so in respect for the Korean protesters.

That's a mistake of fact. They didn't have the intention to show korea from the beginning, not in response to the protest. Koreans got mad at nothing.
 
Jan 14, 2009 6:32 AM

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Look, I don't think it's so much that Koreans can't take a joke as it was a Japanese mangaka that invoked it. Because since it's a Japanese, the insinuations will be seen differently or, actually are different. In reference to the history lesson on the previous page, Japan used to occupy Korea and committed heinous war crimes during it's occupation and they haven't yet apologized, which one could construe as a non-recognition of them.

Thus, anything pertaining to the issue is obviously very touchy, if brought up by a Japanese, no? I highly doubt they'd get this fired up, should it be an American comic artist who was penning this instead as the context wouldn't have been the same or rather, seen the same by the Koreans.

Some mentioned, "But hey! Japan was also making fun of other countries too." Well, to be fair, Japan wasn't the one who did anything to most of those other countries nor haven't apologized for what they did.

I do agree that the Koreans are a bit overboard in demanding the anime to be axed. They could have just insisted, at the most, for Korea to be removed which Japan decided to. Anyhow, Japan isn't going to be canceling the anime series no matter.


thirdlc said:
whiteday26 said:
Japanese studio already have agreed to do so in respect for the Korean protesters.

That's a mistake of fact. They didn't have the intention to show korea from the beginning, not in response to the protest. Koreans got mad at nothing.


dtshyk, can you clarify? Did the Japanese themselves never had any intention to feature the Korean character or they axed it out because of the Korean protest?
Modified by Keira, Jan 14, 2009 8:52 AM
 
Jan 14, 2009 7:24 AM

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Keira said:
Some mentioned, "But hey! Japan was also making fun of other countries too." Well, to be fair, Japan wasn't the one who did anything to most of those other countries nor haven't apologized for what they did.
Actually, there is a China and even Taiwan character. Both have "rough" histories with Japan.

As to the post above me, I wouldn't be shocked if Korea wasn't ever going to show up. Korea was a minor character amongst the minors.
 
Jan 14, 2009 7:44 AM

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If it was just Korea being mocked, then hey... I would actually get their protest. But fact is, it isn't just them who is just being mocked at all, it is other countries as well. From what I can tell, the real country that has a right to protest is Italy. I don't hold to country bashing stuff in general, but I have to say, when it is multiple countries, it is a different matter.

And to say that Koreans are still holding onto animosity from what was done to them over decades ago is just sad. Some of it goes back over fifty years ago to World War II, but the fact that some of this animosity goes back to issues hundreds of years ago... it's like saying that England and Spain should still show animosity towards each other because of the Spanish English war... or in the case of World War II, nobody forgiving Germany for it's transgressions. Not being so forgiving of Germany in World War I is one of the key factors for World War II. Not the main one, but one of the key ones.

This is also what I call censorship, whether the character was meant to show up or not. Selection over censorship I say.
 
Jan 14, 2009 8:37 AM

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The update made me giggle, a crime on a personal level? Like Murder? So satire is a crime? Do these people drop out of kindergarden ? Do they know what freedom of speech is? Then again this is just a diplomatic envoy.. about 0 relevance in politics... surely the south korean government is not gonna make a state crysis out of THIS? Because this would just be hillarious

Wow, i can not even believe that south korea dropped down to the level of Syria and Iran though..

 
Jan 14, 2009 9:35 AM

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Korea not a huge fan of satire then?
Your search on "Oran Solus" returned the following quotes:
"Oran Solus? I know him. What a wanker. He still owes me a tenner." Oscar Wilde
"Oran, you're so intelligent and awesome <3" Bakayaro
"Oran's sexy." LolitaDecay
"Oran is a sophisticated penguin." Drybananna
"Oran is a Hand-Eye you faggots." EddieSpaghetti
"Oran for Prime Minister." the_prime_one
"Oran is all that is stated in his sig and more." orbitzz


 
Jan 14, 2009 9:39 AM

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Funny how everyone complains about how many bad things happened to Korea in WWII that the arguing is justified, well guess what. Korea isn't the only country that suffered heavily during WWII, and quite frankly, there are countries which were much worse of during that time period. China and Poland to name an example.
Now i don't see them complaining (interesting China isn't, or haven't we picked up on it?).

It's all just a internet flame fest between the koreans and japanese, which expanded itself onto the political forum.
 
Jan 14, 2009 9:55 AM

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Now I don't know much about Korean government... or the gov't in general, but I recently heard that they were or are under a dictatorship kind of ruling. Wouldn't that have something to do with this? Being all strict and whatnot, and not really 'whining'? I don't know.

It's probably not related, but on Google maps you can't even get the main highways in South Korea, while in Japan, America, etc you can get so close as to tour the streets.
 
Jan 14, 2009 10:00 AM

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Thats because technically, south korea is still at war with north korea.. and with north korea not having its own sattellites (or anything at all to begin with) limitation of war depending info is strong even now.

Don't forget either that there is a quite large military force at the DMZ between north and south korea, and that is the "hottest" DMZ in existence. Quite literally constantly under most heavy guard by US and south korean troops on one side and north korean "soldiers" on the other side..

Thats one of the reasons north korea is known as the black hole of information. Nothing gets in, nothings gets out. And its people starve to death... issn't that a nice state of affairs? (sarcasm) ,p
 
Jan 14, 2009 10:21 AM

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rofl @ the update. Yay for obvious attempts at capitalizing on Korean/Japanese animosity.

Tatriana said:
Now I don't know much about Korean government... or the gov't in general, but I recently heard that they were or are under a dictatorship kind of ruling. Wouldn't that have something to do with this? Being all strict and whatnot, and not really 'whining'? I don't know.

Uh, no. South Korea's government is a democratic republic, similar to the United State's system. South Korea is where the protest is coming form.

North Korea, on the other hand, is a dictatorship, but North Koreans have more to worry about than what Japanese manga-ka say about them. That, and the fact that there are just as many internet users in Antarctica as North Korea...
 
Jan 14, 2009 10:29 AM

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lol @ the update. I like how this publicity is turning attention toawards the anime, gaining it some more possible viewers.
 
Jan 14, 2009 10:31 AM

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And those in the antararctica are MUCH better fed....

You'd think south koreans had better things to do than feed the flamewars (even political ones!) with the loveable japanese. And seriously, japan gives me anime, i like japan much more than south korea, which gives me LESS CHARACTERS in an anime i never heard about, take that political correctness... yarrrr ;p

But i'll be honest, before this i didn't even know theres such a thing as Korean/Japanese animosity... kinda sad indeed.. and they really don't get the concept of satire eh.. ouch
 
Jan 14, 2009 10:38 AM

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wow.. a protest for anime cancellation. Never really thought that would happen in South Korea.
 
Jan 14, 2009 10:47 AM

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I guess the comments on this thread are understandable given that most of you jack off to Naruto and eat ham sandwiches with chopsticks.

Don't post stupid shit if you don't know the situation between the two countries. Muslims got pissed at that one cartoonist who portrayed Allah, Herge got shit for portraying black people in Tintin in the minstrel show style, etc. etc. Of course, the rest of the world laughed but most of the non-redneck/non-ignorant people could foster some understanding.
 
Jan 14, 2009 11:17 AM

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Satire's goal is to go beyond good taste. And Satire is a right. Nobody has to care for anyones feelings under Satire.

And btw, non-ignorant people would never side with the islamistic terrorists who leverage dead-threats and burn down embassies and churchs because their feelings got injured by some horrid drawings of a man with a beard. Tolerance is equal trade, what only demands, but never gives doesn't deserve tolerance nor understanding
 
Jan 14, 2009 11:40 AM

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Supreme said:
I guess the comments on this thread are understandable given that most of you jack off to Naruto and eat ham sandwiches with chopsticks.

Don't post stupid shit if you don't know the situation between the two countries. Muslims got pissed at that one cartoonist who portrayed Allah, Herge got shit for portraying black people in Tintin in the minstrel show style, etc. etc. Of course, the rest of the world laughed but most of the non-redneck/non-ignorant people could foster some understanding.


HOW DARE YOU INSULT REDNECKS AND WEEABOOS!!!!!! I DEMAND THAT YOU EDIT YOUR COMMENT NAO!!!1!1!!11one
 
Jan 14, 2009 12:18 PM

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eRe4s3r said:
Thats one of the reasons north korea is known as the black hole of information. Nothing gets in, nothings gets out.
That's not how a black hole works...
The word you're looking for is a barrier or maybe a wall.

Anyway, do grudges usually last this long in South Korea?
 
Jan 14, 2009 12:32 PM

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kuroshiroi said:
eRe4s3r said:
Thats one of the reasons north korea is known as the black hole of information. Nothing gets in, nothings gets out.
That's not how a black hole works...
The word you're looking for is a barrier or maybe a wall.

Anyway, do grudges usually last this long in South Korea?

Many people are through with the past (especially the younger generation), but there are some minorities who are still quite sensitive about the topic.

I hope people don't view this like all Korean are protesting. There are just some group of people who haven't forgotten about the past.

It is also possible that Japan's recent attempt to claim Dokdo (or Takeshima in Japanese) island is still on going and the dispute might have some influence on Korean's anger towards Japan.
 
Jan 14, 2009 1:23 PM

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LOL@Update

If Hetalia insults them I wonder what they will do if South Park will have a joke about it
 
Jan 14, 2009 1:26 PM

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eRe4s3r said:
Satire's goal is to go beyond good taste. And Satire is a right. Nobody has to care for anyones feelings under Satire.

And btw, non-ignorant people would never side with the islamistic terrorists who leverage dead-threats and burn down embassies and churchs because their feelings got injured by some horrid drawings of a man with a beard. Tolerance is equal trade, what only demands, but never gives doesn't deserve tolerance nor understanding


I'm sure they wouldn't side with southern plantation owners who tortured, raped, burned and lynched people just because of skin color too, right? It's only been what, 200 years? Do grudges last this long in America?

I'm not saying the terrorists are justified. I'm just saying....you have to understand things in cultural context before making blanket statements.


This "grudge" is still very fresh in the minds of the older generation. Most koreans over 60 probably have japanese names from the occupation. Both countries are extremely homogeneous. Both countries have fierce (sometimes extreme) national pride. Both countries have had hate/rivalry for each other for hundreds of years. This, coupled with the occupation (Japan still denies its war crimes) and you can start to see why something so insignificant is angering the south koreans.

Its not just korea btw. Japan has come under fire from the UN a couple times because of its deep rooted racism for ethnic minorities. For anyone that's been to japan for an extended period of time, you know how deep this racism runs....against gaijin, nigerians, ethnic chinese/koreans, etc.
 
Jan 14, 2009 1:31 PM

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Oh wow that messup South Korea should step up not to be mad or piss off just anime show or manga oh well then like at china banned Death Note. Ohh what next South Korea going be world war 3 oh wow gezz just wish protest go away just act don't know what going on just saying.
 
Jan 14, 2009 2:05 PM

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Anime_Freak_0101 said:
Oh wow that messup South Korea should step up not to be mad or piss off just anime show or manga oh well then like at china banned Death Note. Ohh what next South Korea going be world war 3 oh wow gezz just wish protest go away just act don't know what going on just saying.


Could you rephrase what you just said?
 
Jan 14, 2009 2:17 PM

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They need to get over themselves. The station has already said there's no Korean in the anime, just let it go already.
 
Jan 14, 2009 2:24 PM

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Jan 14, 2009 2:39 PM

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Now, you can understand why many Japanese fans have worried about korean
reaction toward Hetalia.

By the way, I wanna make clear following points;

1) Korean's anger for Hetalia is NOT from the history of the last century.
You may think they are angry because Japan made a light-minded anime about WW2. No, it is Not. I've read some korean newspapers but they mention about the history only a little. Their main claim(not only anime-fans but also quality papers and politicians) is that Korea isn't correctly represented.
Again, it is not a historical issue, but political.

2) Then why they get angry?
According to the korean newspapers, they are mad because they think Korea is discribed as an odd boy. But, you know, all nations are eccentrically discribed. Then why only Korean get angry? You may give two reasons.

a) They are so proud of their country that they can't accept any kind of humor or esprit about their holy father-/motherland.
b) There is a peculiar reason they react so sensitively.

But when a) is the main reason, you can further ask why Korean are so extremly proud of their nation. So there is anyway a peculiar element in Korean reaction.

3) What is the peculiarity of Korea?
It is a pretty hard question to answer, but in short, their complex about their history and culture. This complex relates to mainly Japan, but not only.

They (but of course not all of them) have an unusual desire to be respected from others. And the best way to be respected, at least they think so, is flourisching their history and culture with Japanese stuffs. For example, Samurai, Ninja, Judo, Karate, Sushi, Japanesesword and so on.
You can find some samples by yourself if you want(for instance you can search "Choson Ninja" in youtube. Choson means Korea).

Korean want to be the cultural and moral superiors of Japanese and want to be respected from Japanese. Somehow Korean think they could be supeior if they were the father of japanese culture. But for Japanese it's a not big problem whether their culture is original or from Korea or from China. And moreover, most of Korean claims are fallacies or fictions.

Hetalia laughs at this behavior. In manga Hetalia(In fact there is no room for Korea in anime. Although many koreans are angry about this anime...) Korea claims the origin of Japanese sword is Korea and dangles after Japan like a stalker.
Such behavior of Korean exist not only in manga, but in reality. and it is a social phenomenon. Of course there are always eccentric persons in every country. But in Korea, the number is numerous, and the mass media, politicians and scientists claim their cultural superiority like a lunatic.
Again, Hetalia laughs at this behavior. Iit is exact unacceptable and embarrassing point for Korean. So the most arguments about Hetalia are about this. Korean critisize Hetalia as a racist Anime.

This is also the reason why many Japanese don't like Korea.
For this korean behavior Japanese in 2ch created a new word, "Uriginal". "Uri" means "our" in Korean. So uriginal means the strange korean claim about the origin.
When Korean say, "Hey, Judo is originally korean sports!" or "you know, we taught japanese ninja magic", you can classify ther claim as uriginal claim.

You may don't believe, but I've read in the korean papers they claim urigin not only of Japanese culture but airplane, Aztec, chinese character(kanji), football(soccer) and so on.
As I mentioned, although Japan is their main target, because Japanese culture and Korean culture are similar, and it is(was) hard for Japan to criticize Korea(this is like the relation between Germany and Israel), but Korean take every chance to show their "superiority". You can find many uriginal theory about Asian, European and American culture.
 
Jan 14, 2009 3:15 PM

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rednaxela said:


1) Korean's anger for Hetalia is NOT from the history of the last century.
You may think they are angry because Japan made a light-minded anime about WW2. No, it is Not. I've read some korean newspapers but they mention about the history only a little. Their main claim(not only anime-fans but also quality papers and politicians) is that Korea isn't correctly represented.
Again, it is not a historical issue, but political.


You can't separate cultural history from the issue by simply saying "it was for political reasons."
Everything is colored by people's perceptions.

rednaxela said:


a) They are so proud of their country that they can't accept any kind of humor or esprit about their holy father-/motherland.
b) There is a peculiar reason they react so sensitively.

But when a) is the main reason, you can further ask why Korean are so extremly proud of their nation. So there is anyway a peculiar element in Korean reaction.

3) What is the peculiarity of Korea?
It is a pretty hard question to answer, but in short, their complex about their history and culture. This complex relates to mainly Japan, but not only.

They (but of course not all of them) have an unusual desire to be respected from others. And the best way to be respected, at least they think so, is flourisching their history and culture with Japanese stuffs. For example, Samurai, Ninja, Judo, Karate, Sushi, Japanesesword and so on.
You can find some samples by yourself if you want(for instance you can search "Choson Ninja" in youtube. Choson means Korea).

Korean want to be the cultural and moral superiors of Japanese and want to be respected from Japanese. Somehow Korean think they could be supeior if they were the father of japanese culture. But for Japanese it's a not big problem whether their culture is original or from Korea or from China. And moreover, most of Korean claims are fallacies or fictions.

Hetalia laughs at this behavior. In manga Hetalia(In fact there is no room for Korea in anime. Although many koreans are angry about this anime...) Korea claims the origin of Japanese sword is Korea and dangles after Japan like a stalker.
Such behavior of Korean exist not only in manga, but in reality. and it is a social phenomenon. Of course there are always eccentric persons in every country. But in Korea, the number is numerous, and the mass media, politicians and scientists claim their cultural superiority like a lunatic.
Again, Hetalia laughs at this behavior. Iit is exact unacceptable and embarrassing point for Korean. So the most arguments about Hetalia are about this. Korean critisize Hetalia as a racist Anime.

This is also the reason why many Japanese don't like Korea.
For this korean behavior Japanese in 2ch created a new word, "Uriginal". "Uri" means "our" in Korean. So uriginal means the strange korean claim about the origin.
When Korean say, "Hey, Judo is originally korean sports!" or "you know, we taught japanese ninja magic", you can classify ther claim as uriginal claim.

You may don't believe, but I've read in the korean papers they claim urigin not only of Japanese culture but airplane, Aztec, chinese character(kanji), football(soccer) and so on.
As I mentioned, although Japan is their main target, because Japanese culture and Korean culture are similar, and it is(was) hard for Japan to criticize Korea(this is like the relation between Germany and Israel), but Korean take every chance to show their "superiority". You can find many uriginal theory about Asian, European and American culture.


I know Koreans claim that they invented a lot of stuff that they simply didn't, but again, you have to understand the historical context for the reason why. The Japanese stole tons of Celadon pottery from Korea and are now housing them in Tokyo museums labeled "Japanese pottery." The Japanese claim that Kimchi was invented in japan. Judo is a modern martial art that is derived from Jiujitsu, which originated in india. Many people believe that it passed through the Korean peninsula before reaching japan, which may be the cause of the claim. In the Berlin Olympics, a Korean runner won the gold under a Japanese flag because the Olympics were held during the occupation.

The list goes on. The "unusual want to become respected by others" stems from an overcompensation for the fact that many "Japanese" achievements were, in fact, made by the Koreans or the Chinese.
 
Jan 14, 2009 5:04 PM

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i have found this topic interesting enough to read all of the posts so far. I have to say i don't understand what half of this has to do with anime. I myself am a mixed-race person. I have had my share of cultural diversity and have gotten my share of first-hand racism towards me from various sources. I must say though, I have never been insulted by anything i saw in a cartoon (anime). Japan is superior to Korea, Korea is superior to Japan yak yak yak. who gives a crap! Every country, culture, religion... has something to make fun of and I don't see anything wrong about having a giggle at them be it my own country/culture/religion (well not religion. I am an Atheist and at the risk of offending most of you, I laugh at idea of god) or someone else's. People just need to lighten up. To finish off, once again I'd like to thank Korea. Had it not been for the protests, I never would have heard of this Manga/Anime. Thank You.
 
Jan 14, 2009 7:06 PM

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Hamel said:
kimatg said:
Sheesh, good to hear this issue is settled somewhat.

It was sure noisy enough in the korean blogosphere since the last few days when someone wrote about introducing Hetalia how Korea was being portrayed as such in it.
To be frank, I myself didn't feel really nice about it either as a Korean.

Srsly, if you just think about it for a moment, who would not become enraged when some other country would make fun of your nation...
especially when it's a country that you've been ruled over by for some decades.

They make fun of EVERY country that was on the map during WWII
America
France
China
Germany
Heck even Japan makes fun of Japan

Why would that anger you?it's not like the manga was made to make fun of Korea don't be so self-centerd that you can't see that it makes fun of everyone


Yeah~ they make fun of basically EVERYONE so it shouldn't be a problem. I'll miss Korea >_<

Music is from the soul~ ♥
 
Jan 14, 2009 7:23 PM

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dtshyk said:

Korean Congresswoman States "Hetalia anime is a criminal act"
At a diplomacy council of South Korean Congress, a congresswoman Jeong Mi-Kyeong stated that Japanese animation Hetalia was considered to be a crime on a private level.


This must be a joke..

She can't be serious..

(laugh)

 
Jan 15, 2009 2:02 AM

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Supreme said:


You can't separate cultural history from the issue by simply saying "it was for political reasons."
Everything is colored by people's perceptions.



Thank you for providing a good sample of Korean reaction. Maybe you are not Korean, just deeply influenced by Korean culture. Anyway, thanks again, but I' ll object your opinion(^_^)

Well, you have a point. We can't completely separate history and culture. History is a part of culture and politics, and vice versa. Still, it makes sense to distinguisch history from others.
I mean, even if Japan did something bad to Korea(it's a historical fact. How bad is a different issue...), it doesn't justify Korean uriginal theories and its ultra-nationalism(they're cultural and political issues).

 
Jan 15, 2009 2:08 AM

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Supreme said:


I know Koreans claim that they invented a lot of stuff that they simply didn't, but again, you have to understand the historical context for the reason why. The Japanese stole tons of Celadon pottery from Korea and are now housing them in Tokyo museums labeled "Japanese pottery." The Japanese claim that Kimchi was invented in japan. Judo is a modern martial art that is derived from Jiujitsu, which originated in india. Many people believe that it passed through the Korean peninsula before reaching japan, which may be the cause of the claim. In the Berlin Olympics, a Korean runner won the gold under a Japanese flag because the Olympics were held during the occupation.

The list goes on. The "unusual want to become respected by others" stems from an overcompensation for the fact that many "Japanese" achievements were, in fact, made by the Koreans or the Chinese.


OK, Supreme thinks like this;
a)Japan started stealing Korean culture.
b)That's why Korea steals Japanese culture.

Even if a) were correct, b) remains to be blamed, cause we learned from mother or teacher or our community stealing is a bad thing, right? If you get back the stolen things, it's no more stealing but recovering. But what Korea now doing is not recovering.

Next, you refere to "historical context".
Pottery? Yes, Japan took out lots of pottery from Korea in 16. century. But Japanese don't claim Korean pottery comes from Japan.

Kimchi? I'm sorry, but nobody claims and doesn't want to claim Kimchi as Japanese food. But it is possible some American or European mistake it for Japanese, cause Korean often run Japanese restraunt and serve Kimchi.

Judo and Jiujitsu? Well, the oldest marital art probably originated in China or India. So what? The origin doesn't need to be only one. And if Jiujitsu is influenced by foreign culture, it's a not big problem for Japanese(I mentioned it in my first post).

I really don't understand why Korean so obstinately insist on origin. Has anybody an experience to claimed about origin of European culture by Greek?
And culture or something only"passed through the Korean peninsula" just as Supreme said. And if you studied Japanese history, you know that Japan visitied directly China by ship, not through Korea, in many cases to learn their culture and political systems.

And the last case is Berlin Olympics. OK, OK, I know he was a Korean. So what? It was the colonial period. Of course it is not pleasant for Korean, but what is the point with our theme?

Korean should compare their attitude to Chinese or Greek. Althoug they have more persuasive reason to claim origin, but they don't do that.
And if Korean are so troublesome, they'll get less and less presence in manga, anime, movie and so on.
 
Jan 15, 2009 3:34 AM

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THE ORIGIN OF EVERYTHING IS ADAM AND EVE!!!!1111oneone!!!
 
Jan 15, 2009 9:14 AM

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More likely the origin of everything is stardust, quite literally ;) oh my, i forgot !!!111oneoneone ;p

Anyway, this remains just hillarious ;) Who cares what the origin of something is ~.~ And why do the koreas not like satire about their own country. Surely you guys DO know what satire is right? Because where i live, we got about 50 satire drawings in our papers every week, and online aswell ;) And if you think you as korean should be offended, you better be! Otherwise it wouldn't be satire...

And btw, This entire news topic/comments/blogosphere in korea thing is quite satirical aswell...
 
Jan 15, 2009 6:44 PM

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I have not heard of any of the claims lists that rednaxela mentioned.

Choson ninja? (Especially when it is written Chosun not Choson, and the term ninja would have been used in Korean instead of Japanese pronounciation of the same Chinese characters. The legibility of this claim coming from an actual Korean comes in question)

Aztec? Chinese Characters? There are a lot of Koreans here, that does not believe in any of those, and you should see how many netizen are against such claims. You should not group an entire nationality together, because of some people from that particular nation are unpleasant. Do the world view every ex- American presidents as black just because Obama is? Do the world view Japanese man as workaholics based on a few joke mails? Do the world view every German as capable of performing Genocide just because of what one political party managed to do in the past?

As for Ultra-Nationalism, a recent survey done in a certain Korean website has shown approximately 80% of the middle/high school students are not satisified with being a Korean. (Which I do know is a bad thing, but does prove your assumption invalid. Moreover, current low score might be related to Economic Depression which is also happening in several other countries)

This is what foreign media has done, turning private researches that is even ridiculed in one's own country as a International attack on originality. Yes, there are a lot of strange people in Korea, but it's not just us that has them.

Moreover, I have heard/read of Japanese attempting to claim Kimchi, and it is a pity that you simply dismiss a case just because you simply is displeased with another culture, As for Japan and Korea Kimchi dispute see this topic about it here:
http://www.american.edu/TED/kimchi.htm

As for the news topic at hand, I do not believe such reaction from the Korean netizen were a neccisity, and I have read several parts of Hetalia including the panels that majority of Koreans seems to be angry about, but I don't believe the government nor anti-Hetalia groups should be attempting to intervene under the name of defamation under current evidences.

I will no longer watch this topic as I fear that it is turning nothing more than an anti-Korea thread.
 
Jan 15, 2009 7:34 PM

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Hamel said:
THE ORIGIN OF EVERYTHING IS ADAM AND EVE!!!!1111oneone!!!


funny. imaginary people started it all. good theory
 
Jan 15, 2009 8:34 PM

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rednaxela said:
Supreme said:


I know Koreans claim that they invented a lot of stuff that they simply didn't, but again, you have to understand the historical context for the reason why. The Japanese stole tons of Celadon pottery from Korea and are now housing them in Tokyo museums labeled "Japanese pottery." The Japanese claim that Kimchi was invented in japan. Judo is a modern martial art that is derived from Jiujitsu, which originated in india. Many people believe that it passed through the Korean peninsula before reaching japan, which may be the cause of the claim. In the Berlin Olympics, a Korean runner won the gold under a Japanese flag because the Olympics were held during the occupation.

The list goes on. The "unusual want to become respected by others" stems from an overcompensation for the fact that many "Japanese" achievements were, in fact, made by the Koreans or the Chinese.


OK, Supreme thinks like this;
a)Japan started stealing Korean culture.
b)That's why Korea steals Japanese culture.

Even if a) were correct, b) remains to be blamed, cause we learned from mother or teacher or our community stealing is a bad thing, right? If you get back the stolen things, it's no more stealing but recovering. But what Korea now doing is not recovering.

Next, you refere to "historical context".
Pottery? Yes, Japan took out lots of pottery from Korea in 16. century. But Japanese don't claim Korean pottery comes from Japan.

Kimchi? I'm sorry, but nobody claims and doesn't want to claim Kimchi as Japanese food. But it is possible some American or European mistake it for Japanese, cause Korean often run Japanese restraunt and serve Kimchi.

Judo and Jiujitsu? Well, the oldest marital art probably originated in China or India. So what? The origin doesn't need to be only one. And if Jiujitsu is influenced by foreign culture, it's a not big problem for Japanese(I mentioned it in my first post).

I really don't understand why Korean so obstinately insist on origin. Has anybody an experience to claimed about origin of European culture by Greek?
And culture or something only"passed through the Korean peninsula" just as Supreme said. And if you studied Japanese history, you know that Japan visitied directly China by ship, not through Korea, in many cases to learn their culture and political systems.

And the last case is Berlin Olympics. OK, OK, I know he was a Korean. So what? It was the colonial period. Of course it is not pleasant for Korean, but what is the point with our theme?

Korean should compare their attitude to Chinese or Greek. Althoug they have more persuasive reason to claim origin, but they don't do that.
And if Korean are so troublesome, they'll get less and less presence in manga, anime, movie and so on.


I'm sorry, maybe I did not word my post correctly.

I'm not arguing about who stole what from who. I am trying to provide the cultural backdrop for what I believe is childish overreaction on Korea's part. I'm not saying "Japan stole from Korea" or that "Korea stole from Japan."

As for the examples,
Kimchi: read the article whiteday posted
Celadon: Japan stole national treasures and monuments from Korea during its occupation. Many pieces were relabeled "Japanese" during the occupation because the Japanese government thought Korea was officially part of Japan. Many art pieces and historical items sitting in German museums are labeled "German" even though they were pilfered from France, Italy, etc. during WWII.
Judo/Jiujitsu: Of course, I don't believe Koreans invented Judo. I was trying to give an example as to WHY the Koreans think that it started in Korea. It didn't drop out of thin air; it wasn't because Korea was trying to "steal" from Japan.

The general Japanese attitude about their occupation is that they see it as a good thing. They believe that they did Korea a favor by rapidly boosting technological innovation and uplifting the economy. Japan saw "culture" as something fluid and dynamic (rightly so) and believe that many things could be assimilated and adopted. This is evident during the Tokugawa Restoration when they took many "Western" ideas and tweaked them to be (on the surface) inherently "Japanese" (what I think is a positive thing).

The Koreans, however, saw things differently.

I think this excerpt from TIME magazine do a good job of summing up the general Korean attitude toward Japan.

"The Koreans, on the other hand, see the Japanese as a ruthless wartime occupation force comparable to that of Nazi Germany, Japan's World War II ally. They point to Japan's draconian policies of the 1930s and '40s: the kidnapping of thousands of girls and women to act as so-called comfort women for Japanese troops, the dragooning of 4 million Koreans to work as slave labor in mines and factories, and the often brutal dismantling of Korean cultural identity�the forced use of Japanese names and language is one notorious example. "It is very clear that Japan tried to wipe out Korean culture.""

These war crimes happened, and Japan still denies many of them. Japan has several wartime memorials that praise suicide bombers. Japan also has several museums that promote militaristic nationalism. Japan also denies, or tries to cover up the atrocities that it has committed during the war (Heard of the Nanjing Massacre? Or maybe you know it as the Nanjing "Incident"). Even here in the states, many call out against the Japanese propaganda that litters its museums.

This example in response to Hetalia, along with the general Korean attitude against Japan, is a large overcompensation in response to the Japanese attitude about largely, the Japanese occupation. Let me remind you one more time that it has only been 2-3 generations since the occupation. Slavery in America has been abolished for 200 years and yet there is still shit that goes on every day.
 
Jan 16, 2009 9:41 AM

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Great job, Korea. Now it's been canceled.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-01-15/japan-kids-station-cancels-its-hetalia-anime-run

At least they're still airing it on "Animated Mobile Phone Service". Maybe someone will be nice enough to upload the low-res raws so they can be subbed...

Edit:
Oh wait, just saw the new topic.
 
Jan 16, 2009 1:25 PM

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Nice to meet you, whiteday26, and thanks for the reply, Supreme.

But Hetalia is already cancelled and our discussion has a little bit digressed from the subject of this forum.
And most of the members won't be interested in the origin of Kimchi and so on, at least don't want to talk over them in this forum. So I'm going to step back a little.

The points of Hetalia issue as following:
1) The anger of Korean is not a historical issue at all. This can be deducted from many statements of Korean politicians and articles in Korean papers. Their anger sets towards the representation of Korea,or in other words, the tendency of Korean to claim for the origin.

2) Korean think they have a good reason to get mad; however, what Japan has done is not valid enough as a good excuse for their childish reaction.

3) Korean's Uriginal theories (eccentric theory about the origin) and ultra-nationalism have actually already become social phenomena, but no longer individual whimsy.
In Japan it is possible for somebody to claim that "Kimchi comes from Japan". But this claim won't be recognized or received favorably by authentic massmedia. If the massmedia introduce his contention favorably, he and the massmedia will be terribly criticized. But in Korea..., it seems not necessarily to be so. This unreasonable things or claims are not only allowed, but rather highly recommended in Korea, which is really different from the situation in other modern countries.

For these reason, if you really want to judge the issue about Kimchi and so on, please check Japanese and Korean massmedia.


4) And one more new point: If Korean think that Japan steal/has stolen or does/ has done something bad, they can also produce by themselves many mangas for laughing at Japanse style. But the preposition is that they believe they have good evidences to prove that Japan has stole or committed something bad.


So, if you have some interest for the resource about Uriginal(or koreate: Korea+create), you can check this url; http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/韓国起源説#cite_note-157

This article published in Wikipedia has ordered a list of resources as footnotes.
Many of them are aricles from the website of massmedia in Korea. They are written in Japanese (because the big Korean papers also have their Japanese version website) or Korean, some are, of course, in Chinese. Well, it's not easy for you to read, maybe. But if you really want to know, you can somehow read them with the aid of web translation services.

I have my own resource list in my PC in Japan, since I'm sociologially interested in Korean's society, but not at hand right now (I'm now studying in Europe).
 
Jan 17, 2009 8:36 AM

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rednaxela said:

the best way to be respected, at least they think so, is flourisching their history and culture with Japanese stuffs. For example, Samurai, Ninja, Judo, Karate, Sushi, Japanesesword and so on.
You can find some samples by yourself if you want(for instance you can search "Choson Ninja" in youtube. Choson means Korea).

Korean want to be the cultural and moral superiors of Japanese and want to be respected from Japanese. Somehow Korean think they could be supeior if they were the father of japanese culture. But for Japanese it's a not big problem whether their culture is original or from Korea or from China. And moreover, most of Korean claims are fallacies or fictions.

Hetalia laughs at this behavior. In manga Hetalia(In fact there is no room for Korea in anime. Although many koreans are angry about this anime...) Korea claims the origin of Japanese sword is Korea and dangles after Japan like a stalker.
Such behavior of Korean exist not only in manga, but in reality. and it is a social phenomenon. Of course there are always eccentric persons in every country. But in Korea, the number is numerous, and the mass media, politicians and scientists claim their cultural superiority like a lunatic.
Again, Hetalia laughs at this behavior. Iit is exact unacceptable and embarrassing point for Korean. So the most arguments about Hetalia are about this. Korean critisize Hetalia as a racist Anime.

This is also the reason why many Japanese don't like Korea.
For this korean behavior Japanese in 2ch created a new word, "Uriginal". "Uri" means "our" in Korean. So uriginal means the strange korean claim about the origin.
When Korean say, "Hey, Judo is originally korean sports!" or "you know, we taught japanese ninja magic", you can classify ther claim as uriginal claim.

You may don't believe, but I've read in the korean papers they claim urigin not only of Japanese culture but airplane, Aztec, chinese character(kanji), football(soccer) and so on.
As I mentioned, although Japan is their main target, because Japanese culture and Korean culture are similar, and it is(was) hard for Japan to criticize Korea(this is like the relation between Germany and Israel), but Korean take every chance to show their "superiority". You can find many uriginal theory about Asian, European and American culture.


WAIT... korea wants to be respected by flourishing korean histroy with japanese culture? NO! koreans ABSOLUTELY acknowledge that karate, sushi, judo, samurai are japanese culture. The only thing that they insist is, many of the japanese culture stem from korean peninsula; it's inevitable due to the geographical factor.

Today, what they're trying to do is to advertise more on korean culture by distinguising theirs from japanese! For example, they want to make Tae-kwon-do viewed differently from Karate.

well, Tae-kwon-do is already famous so i'll take another example. There's a korean food called kimbob. Since it looks a bit similar to japaense sushi rolled with seaweed, koreans want to make people realize the difference between Kimbob and Sushi.

Of course many koreans would think that korea passed many culture to Japan because geographically it's undeniable. However, I've never seen such a korean claiming that even airplane or Aztec! it's outrageous.

I would say You must've seen groundless news which aimed to make people have bitter feelings toward korea.

In fact, there were a lot of groundless chinese news that Korea insists they invented compass or paper; the news was fake, of course.
Koreans definitely learn that Gonzi is chinese wiseman. they learn that compass and paper are invented in China. I still remember that i learned those things in school in korea.

Plus, you said "So the most arguments about Hetalia are about this. Korean critisize Hetalia as a racist Anime." but mainly, korea complains that Hetalia DOESN'T portray korea in a correct way.

koreans don't understand why Yun-soo (korea in hetalia) collects japanese national flags. they also don't understand why he claims everything orginates from korea (because most of the koreans don't do that!). Simply, they don't see why they should be satirized in this way. I think Hetaria should satirize based on more reasearch about korea.

...altho i agree that koreans overeacted a bit. man i hoped that korea appeared in the animation.
 
Jan 17, 2009 8:42 AM

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Supreme said:
rednaxela said:
Supreme said:


OK, Supreme thinks like this;
a)Japan started stealing Korean culture.
b)That's why Korea steals Japanese culture.



huh? is that the point?
 
Jan 17, 2009 8:49 AM

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Yikes, Satires goal is to MOCK not what things are in reality but what people THINK they are in their mind. Obviously satires goal is not to display things as they are!

The argument from korea is completely groundless, satire is satire. It has no historical relevance nor does it want to (or need it).

Basicly you do need the (sorry to say that) perceived ego of korea and stretch it 50 times, then its satire.. obviously it is nothing like that in general populace.. but thats the entire point of satire. And imo the few vocal bloggers in korea make me believe that the satire is spot on after all ;)

hanal said:

Plus, you said "So the most arguments about Hetalia are about this. Korean critisize Hetalia as a racist Anime." but mainly, korea complains that Hetalia DOESN'T portray korea in a correct way.


Well duh, i think koreans really do need to re-read the wiki entry on satire, like 20 times, it has not the goal to portray something in the correct way... matter of fact, if satire does that, its no longer satire..

Anyhow, overreaction over some satirical anime.. it Is hillarious ;)
 
Jan 17, 2009 9:13 AM

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hanal said:
koreans don't understand why Yun-soo (korea in hetalia) collects japanese national flags. they also don't understand why he claims everything orginates from korea (because most of the koreans don't do that!). Simply, they don't see why they should be satirized in this way. I think Hetaria should satirize based on more reasearch about korea.
? Because the Chinese people walk around with pandas in their backpacks, US people have aliens for friends, and people from the UK talk to their "imaginary" spirit friends.. and those are just a few examples. There's no "research" involved... they take funny fodder, right or wrong, and use it to make a story.
 
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