Vanisher said: Imeon said: Men are men. Men fapped over two dating women because they'll have sex sooner or later. It's just male instinct. Joke or not, your posts disgust me. [raises ten foot pole] I'm similarly disturbed, sorry to say. That's kind of the exact attitude that rubs me the wrong way — the single-minded obsession with the sexual aspect of their relationship to the point of disregarding everything else and not seeing them as people but rather as toys for your sexual gratification. Not to mention some lesbians are also asexual and don't have sex in their relationship equations lol, so it isn't always a guarantee. And then there's' your generalization that all men must be sex-obsessed creatures. o_o I guess it's exactly seeing lesbians as fodder for your fapping sessions that squicks the hell out of me, but I acknowledge this is a matter of values dissonance and thus can't be debated factually. Although I agree that it's less severe an issue when they're fictional characters and already exist for the audience's entertainment and don't have the capacity to feel insulted by such attentions due to y'know, not being real. Real people though is total total squick to me. I don't even want to think about some of the creepy shit my male friend said to me when I told him about me dating another girl. [shudders] But yea, I guess at the end of the day nobody really has the right to stop anybody, so I guess you guys can carry on with that sort of thing. Still disturbs me personally though. And I'd highly advise you not express such an attitude towards actual lesbian couples if you happen to know any personally because that'd be some pretty creepy/rude harassment right there. If you find them that unbearably attractive then keep it yourself and don't let them know of it. DrCoppelius said: If you're talking about King_Kiashi, they also sexually harassed her though. There's not much of an excuse for that. If you wanna masturbate to some near-stranger, you keep quiet about it. And yeaaa, I agree that there's no excuse for that kind of harassment either no matter how attractive he found me o_o. I was just minding my own business drawing in my journal and trying to pretend I wasn't at some stupid loud pep rally and thereee he goes, invading my space and forcing himself on me even after I pretty much rejected him by denying him my phone number. >_> If he diddled his dong to me I sure as hell don't want to hear about it. My same male friend once told me he was going to go masturbate to me in the shower over a phone conversation, and that's more than enough squick to me already [shudder]. |
King_KiashiJun 6, 2015 3:36 PM
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| It used to make me very uncomfortable. When I watched Kannazuki No Miko, I couldn't stop thinking, "GET WITH THE GUY. THE GUY IS BETTER. HE IS WAY BETTER. PLEASE, LOOK AT HIM." Of course the shit canon pairing had absolute shit writing and I eventually learned there is such a thing as GOOD yuri pairings but just like yaoi, they are hard to find. The one I like the most is SumireXLucia from Venus Virses Virus. HarukaxMichiru is also good. But I can't get behind yuri fanart if I don't know the characters or their history. My initial reaction is again, "uncomfortable". |
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| I thought it was strange and honestly the majority of it still is. I have no issues with lesbians, but the way anime portrays them is weird. Either one of the girls is extremely pushy that it feels kind of rapey (Kannazuki no Miko, Strawberry Panic, Citrus) or it's like an outbreak where everyone is gay in the immediate area (Strawberry Panic and Sasameki Koto). Not saying it's all like that, and there are a few examples of that I feel are well written, but those shows aren't yuri anime they just have yuri in them. |
LordAura said: I thought it was strange and honestly the majority of it still is. I have no issues with lesbians, but the way anime portrays them is weird. Either one of the girls is extremely pushy that it feels kind of rapey (Kannazuki no Miko,. Lol KIND of rapey? Chikane was a flat-out rapist. And she can burn in hell like she deserves for doing that to another person, especially a girl as sweet as Himeko. |
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| I think my first contact with yuri were shows that were more targeted at a female audience such as Marimite and Aoi Hana so I had a very good first impression of yuri. I guess, right now, I still enjoy series that focus on femalexfemale relationships. Hell, 2 of my top 5 are even yuri series. I have to say though, that I usually stay away from yuri that has tons of fanservice and stick with the ones that are slightly more serious shows. |
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| I jizzed my pants. |
Chiibi said: LordAura said: I thought it was strange and honestly the majority of it still is. I have no issues with lesbians, but the way anime portrays them is weird. Either one of the girls is extremely pushy that it feels kind of rapey (Kannazuki no Miko,. Lol KIND of rapey? Chikane was a flat-out rapist. And she can burn in hell like she deserves for doing that to another person, especially a girl as sweet as Himeko. I wouldn't be so quick to outright hate her if you understood her reasoning behind it. I'll put it under a spoiler for those who haven't seen the show yet. LordAura said: I thought it was strange and honestly the majority of it still is. I have no issues with lesbians, but the way anime portrays them is weird. Either one of the girls is extremely pushy that it feels kind of rapey (Kannazuki no Miko, Strawberry Panic, Citrus) or it's like an outbreak where everyone is gay in the immediate area (Strawberry Panic and Sasameki Koto). Not saying it's all like that, and there are a few examples of that I feel are well written, but those shows aren't yuri anime they just have yuri in them. I don't like Shizuma/Nagisa in Strawberry Panic either because I similarly feel that Shizuma's aggressiveness/forcefulness isn't a good combo for Nagisa's extreme passiveness. And I did elaborate on the KnM situation in the above spoiler. But I wouldn't call Mei's actions in Citrus all that rapey necessarily. She was forceful at times in the beginning, but it wasn't so much out of active lust so much as a product of her emotional issues that causes her to struggle in forming healthy relationships with other people. It's been implied that Mei has some low self esteem issues, and it seems that she doesn't understand what love is simply because nobody's ever loved her the way Yuzu does — in her past experiences, such a thing was merely people trying to get into her pants, and that influences how she views such things. She desperately wants to feel needed by someone, but the way people ever wanted/needed her was sexually as it seems. So that's moreso the reasoning behind her pushiness; she and Yuzu are on different wavelengths of understanding their feelings and so it causes dissonance. Of course it's a matter of interpretation though, so there is that. |
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Vanisher said: Imeon said: Men are men. Men fapped over two dating women because they'll have sex sooner or later. It's just male instinct. Joke or not, your posts disgust me. We're talking about anime right? Never mix 3D and 2D girls. I don't fapped over 3D girls. They're not fap material enough coz they do it out pure love unlike 2D girls. Burning love and lust. I don't watch porn either. They're fake. I prefer 2D where girls are hot and yuriiicious. Chiibi said: It used to make me very uncomfortable. When I watched Kannazuki No Miko, I couldn't stop thinking, "GET WITH THE GUY. THE GUY IS BETTER. HE IS WAY BETTER. PLEASE, LOOK AT HIM." That pairing is pretty much forced. The fact that Chikane |
RPSB9Jun 6, 2015 5:57 PM
#CHEXIT |
I found her (Himiko) one of the worst character ever, still falling for the person that raped her. I don't blame Himeko for that. I blame that her sick and perverted male creators decided to destroy her character for the sake of fan-pandering. I wouldn't be so quick to outright hate her if you understood her reasoning behind it. Nothing justifies rape. NOTHING. I hate Chikane. I hated her even before she did it. I thought she was an annoying, angsty, very creepy Mary-Sue. lol And if rape is the only thing she could think of to make Himeko hate her, she's a complete idiot. That pairing is pretty much forced. It's like the most forced canon thing I've ever seen in anime and it disgusted me so. D: |
ChiibiJun 6, 2015 6:14 PM
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| I have a terrible memory for that sort of thing, so I have no idea... I'm guessing my reaction was probably to just not have a reaction... If that makes any sense. |
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Imeon said: Vanisher said: Joke or not, your posts disgust me. We're talking about anime right? Never mix 3D and 2D girls. I don't fapped over 3D girls. They're not fap material enough coz they do it out pure love unlike 2D girls. Burning love and lust. I don't watch porn either. They're fake. I prefer 2D where girls are hot and yuriiicious. Well, it's a relief you don't do it to real people, but I still find it rather distasteful to only focus on the sexual aspect of a relationship for titillating purposes, fictional or not. But it's not really harming anyone with 2D characters so I guess it's not too terrible. Imeon said: Chiibi said: It used to make me very uncomfortable. When I watched Kannazuki No Miko, I couldn't stop thinking, "GET WITH THE GUY. THE GUY IS BETTER. HE IS WAY BETTER. PLEASE, LOOK AT HIM." That pairing is pretty much forced. The fact that Chikane |
King_KiashiJun 6, 2015 6:37 PM
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| SoumaxHimeko is one of the most sacred, adorable ships ever. They are my number 3 OTP. They treat each other with love and respect. They support each other. He protects her but he's not possessive or creepy about it at all. When she rejects him, (I CRIED) but he respects her answer and lets her go without an argument. LIKE THE MATURE YOUNG SELFLESS MAN THAT HE IS. They were precious on their dates together. I care about them very much and I'd appreciate it if you refrained from further bashing them. :( it's obvious Himeko forgives Chikane for the stupid shit she pulled and has put it past them at the end, and that's ultimately her decision. Considering that "stupid shit' was rape and attempted murder, I find that extremely insulting. (She goes all the way, yes. It's in the manga.) No couple's "love" could go through such horrible things and still be actual love. It's sexual abuse. Himeko should be calling one of those help hotlines. NOT going all mushy and confessing her love. It's total bullshit. The writers just wanted to fufill their sick sexual fantasies instead of portray a healthy and loving relationship. Like I said, they are PERVERTS. All of their stories have sick perverted crap in them like that.....and fanservice galore. I have a love-hate relationship with Kannazuki. Hate the yuri ship, hate Chikane but find the story interesting (because it's so bizarre and Japanese mythology-based) and I love the rest of the characters, the artwork, and THE MUSIC. WOW. |
ChiibiJun 6, 2015 6:47 PM
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| Ahh... More replies x_x Sorry, I'm having a hard time keeping up. I'll just repost my edit. Eh, I agree that the rape route is pretty squicky in general, so I don't blame you for finding it to ruin everything. It did rub me the wrong way too. I'm not really one to just hate characters just for making awful decisions though, especially if they're experiencing emotional turmoil that leads to their descent into moral degradation. They're just really really problematic characters to me then, and I end up just wanting them to find a way to redeem themselves. And Chikane is pretty problematic, yea. Although if you already hated her then it stands to reason you'd hate her even more, yea. I liked Chikane from the beginning and still do but I do recognize that she done fucked up majorly and did some really terrible things. Although I did already say that the rape thing was pretty unnecessary too and they could've totally just, y'know... done this thing called communication. talking about their issues. the whole thing was really unnecessary honestly. And you're right that there's a lot of less squicky things Chikane could've done. That arc was pretty poorly written in general. Chiibi said: SoumaxHimeko is one of the most sacred, adorable ships ever. They are my number 3 OTP. They treat each other with love and respect. They support each other. He protects her but he's not possessive or creepy about it at all. They were precious on their dates together. I care about them very much and I'd appreciate it if you refrained from further bashing them. :( it's obvious Himeko forgives Chikane for the stupid shit she pulled and has put it past them at the end, and that's ultimately her decision. Considering that "stupid shit' was rape and attempted murder, I find that extremely insulting. (She goes all the way, yes. It's in the manga.) Eh, I just never really liked the ship personally but you're perfectly entitled to like it yourself. It's just not to my personal shipping tastes with all the cliches it has. And I haven't read the manga, so I'd consider that a separate continuity from the anime canon (although wow that is pretty terrible) And when I say 'stupid shit' I meant her terrible, nonsensical decisions; I didn't mean to sound belittling. I agree that it's awful. And yea, it's a sensitive subject. Sorry if I come off so impassioned; I just always have a sense of detachment from stories and a lot of things in general so I'm pretty neutral on the whole thing. Chikane/Himeko is a problematic relationship, though, yea; I won't deny that and say it's perfect. Honestly, that part of KnM was just really poorly written and they did kind of screw some of their characterizations up with all that shit that hit the fan. It did feel like a big betrayal of Chikane's character to do that. it is pretty out of the left field. And Himeko's reaction was pretty unrealistic as well. I think KnM's a pretty mediocre story that had potential but screwed a lot of elements up. Hated the mechas and found the characters flat. The ED is super catchy though and some of the ideas and mythology were interesting. Honestly, the whole rape route is just total squick in general so of course it's a touchy subject. I similarly wish they hadn't put that in there since again, it's really unnecessary and betrays Chikane's characterization. And it's such a sensitive thing too; there's a lot less problematic things Chikane could've done. DrCoppelius said: King_Kiashi said: Well, it's a relief you don't do it to real people, but I still find it rather distasteful to only focus on the sexual aspect of a relationship for titillating purposes, fictional or not. But it's not really harming anyone with 2D characters so I guess it's not too terrible. Might I ask why you find it so distasteful? I'll specify I'm a bisexual woman. I don't think that should validate my words all too much, but I'd like you to at least know I'm not attempting to invalidate lesbian relationships since, well, I'm romantically attracted to them. But really, everyone has a sex drive and most people aren't asexual. So long as a man doesn't do sexual harassment, go out of his way to make lesbians feel uncomfortable or disrespect lesbian relationships, why does the thought that they're attracted to you sexually bother you so much? It's not that much different from a lesbian being attracted to a straight woman. Can't be helped. What I find distasteful is someone only liking lesbian relationships because they're sexually appealing to them and having zero regard for their love for eachother or anything; that's what I just find kind of disrespectful. I wasn't saying I was bothered by guys being attracted to me personally or anything; that wasn't really my point. Although to that end I'm flattered if someone has a crush on me, regardless of gender. It only really bothers me when they make creepy remarks towards me or just... act like a creep about it in general and purposefully make me uncomfortable. But that wasn't what I was trying to say lol. |
King_KiashiJun 6, 2015 7:19 PM
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| ^ Like I said, the creators are horny men and I think they care much more about smut than being good to their characters, unfortunately. D: Himeko's panties were off and she had those horrible, lifeless eyes when Chikane was done. I'm pretty sure they stuck to the manga and were only less graphic about it. I'm a huge shoujo fanatic. SoumaxHime is about as shoujo as it gets. XD I'm going to talk about a yuri ship I DO LIKE, now: Kouya and Yamato from Loveless Omg, these two are great. One is very outgoing and flirty and one is solemn and more formal. I'm really a sucker for "Odd Couple" ships. (my yaoi OTP is the same)They are passionate and so dedicated to each other and good to each other. Yamato also cracks the best jokes: XD Many people avoid Loveless because the two main characters are a 12-year-old boy and an adult man WHO MOLESTS HIM AND YES, THAT'S CREEPY AS F*CK. But KouyaxYamato.......check it out just for them. Episodes 8-10 are their arc. |
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| There's actual discussion going on? This is not MAL anymore. |
   I envy your delusion; I wish I could live in it  |
Chiibi said: ^ Like I said, the creators are horny men and I think they care much more about smut than being good to their characters, unfortunately. D: Himeko's panties were off and she had those horrible, lifeless eyes when Chikane was done. I'm pretty sure they stuck to the manga and were only less graphic about it. I'm a huge shoujo fanatic. SoumaxHime is about as shoujo as it gets. XD I'm going to talk about a yuri ship I DO LIKE, now: Kouya and Yamato from Loveless Omg, these two are great. One is very outgoing and flirty and one is solemn and more formal. I'm really a sucker for "Odd Couple" ships. (my yaoi OTP is the same)They are passionate and so dedicated to each other and good to each other. Yamato also cracks the best jokes: XD Many people avoid Loveless because the two main characters are a 12-year-old boy and an adult man WHO MOLESTS HIM AND YES, THAT'S CREEPY AS F*CK. But KouyaxYamato.......check it out just for them. Episodes 8-10 are their arc. Yea, considering how sloppily written Kannazuki no Miko is in general it wouldn't really surprise me if that was the case. I really like Chikane/Himeko though and think they could've been precious together, I just wish they hadn't screwed it up with the whole squicky shit. Chikane going all the way like that just makes zero sense to me considering how much she's shown to love and care about Himeko throughout the show. Like, you'd think a more realistic way to make Himeko hate her would be to hurt her indirectly by taking away something/someone she cares about, not... doing the nasty upon her. Hence why that route feels so unnecessary and the way it's handled in-universe is pretty unrealistic. At least show some severe regret/huge guilt from Chikane and have her hate herself more, but no, I think the whole thing was kind of swept under the rug if memory serves correct. =/ And I don't really look into shoujo too heavily, nor do I generally like het shipping because yuri is my jam, so that might influence my dislike of Shouma/Himeko too even though it's a little biased haha. I do have a particular distaste when I see a guy constantly protecting a girl who just kind of stands there and watches like 'okay' though; like that made me dislike it more since Shouma's kind of doing all the work like your typical male lead. The gender roles were just coming on strong for me o_o. I think I've heard of Loveless before, like I think I saw some yuri-ish things from it, yea. But then I heard it was yaoi and then I was just kind of like 'eh whatever'. I mean I have a few yaoi ships but I don't actively seek out yaoi anime/manga. And whoaa, the lolicon thing does sound like a bit of a turnaway haha. o_o Although if you're ever looking for some nice, non-problematic yuri there's always Girl Friends and Sasameki Koto, which are both precious and don't contain any forceful lesbians lol. Although Girl Friends is a lot more well-paced (and basically a yuri classic; it's great) while Sasameki Koto is... pretty dragged out but if you stick to it it gets good lol. Protaku94 said: There's actual discussion going on? This is not MAL anymore. I'm new to actually talking to people on here so I didn't realize this was odd, haha! I mean before lately I'd just kind of posted my random thoughts on episode threads here and there and floated away lol. Though I read episode threads a lot because generally nobody ever shares the same anime tastes as me and hasn't seen the same stuff so it makes me feel less... alone lol. |
King_KiashiJun 6, 2015 7:58 PM
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King_Kiashi said: Imeon said: We're talking about anime right? Never mix 3D and 2D girls. I don't fapped over 3D girls. They're not fap material enough coz they do it out pure love unlike 2D girls. Burning love and lust. I don't watch porn either. They're fake. I prefer 2D where girls are hot and yuriiicious. Well, it's a relief you don't do it to real people, but I still find it rather distasteful to only focus on the sexual aspect of a relationship for titillating purposes, fictional or not. But it's not really harming anyone with 2D characters so I guess it's not too terrible. Imeon said: That pairing is pretty much forced. The fact that Chikane Fiction is just fiction. Rape is rape. It'll never be justified. |
#CHEXIT |
King_Kiashi said: At least show some severe regret/huge guilt from Chikane and have her hate herself more, but no, I think the whole thing was kind of swept under the rug if memory serves correct. =/ This was actually what the producers were going for though. The most prominent theme in KnM was the angst on the part of Chikane, the feeling that she was somehow inferior and unsuitable for Himeko than say Souma because she was a woman. |
| Yeah, I still hate that ship and that scene. I always felt Chikane's feelings were an unhealthy type of obsession instead of "love". She even states the the viewer "I became obsessed with her." And it was creepy. Fiction is just fiction. Rape is rape. It'll never be justified. Rape isn't okay in fiction either. Falling in love with your rapist well..... *jerks a giant middle finger to every author who does it* |
ChiibiJun 6, 2015 8:20 PM
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Chiibi said: Yeah, I still hate that ship and that scene. I always felt Chikane's feelings were an unhealthy type of obsession instead of "love". She even states the the viewer "I became obsessed with her." And it was creepy. Fiction is just fiction. Rape is rape. It'll never be justified. Rape isn't okay in fiction either. Falling in love with your rapist well..... *jerks a giant middle finger to every author who does it* I mixed things up. Wow, i knew this will come. "Fiction is just fiction." relates to my reply about being horny seeing two 2D girl make out is not the same in 3D girls. "Rape is rape. It's not justified." Again to the same person. No matter the reason, rape will never be justified same as a male rapes a girl or vice versa and same sex rape. Apologies for the mixed up. ^_^ |
#CHEXIT |
Chiibi said: Rape isn't okay in fiction either. Falling in love with your rapist well..... *jerks a giant middle finger to every author who does it* Except it wasn't really 'falling in love with your rapist' in this case. You're free to like what you want, but try to be courteous? Calling the creators horny men who only care about smut is quite incendiary. That said, I don't really think highly of Kaishaku given their other works and the original manga version of KnM. |
Imeon said: Chiibi said: Yeah, I still hate that ship and that scene. I always felt Chikane's feelings were an unhealthy type of obsession instead of "love". She even states the the viewer "I became obsessed with her." And it was creepy. Rape isn't okay in fiction either. Falling in love with your rapist well..... *jerks a giant middle finger to every author who does it* I mixed things up. Wow, i knew this will come. "Fiction is just fiction." relates to my reply about being horny seeing two 2D girl make out is not the same in 3D girls. "Rape is rape. It's not justified." Again to the same person. No matter the reason, rape will never be justified same as a male rapes a girl or vice versa and same sex rape. Apologies for the mixed up. ^_^ Oh, that's okay. And I totally agree with you. I mean, they are drawings; who are you hurting if drawings are turning you on? XD NOBODY. It's good to hear a GUY say that about rape. A lot will go "no, it's two girls raping so it's just hot". That's when I want to drop an anvil on them. These were her feelings even before the scene, just that she started realizing her feelings were romantic after Chikane left. I wasn't convinced. Not at all. She thought Souma was the one. Even after she cried when he kissed her; SHE STILL THOUGHT HE WAS HER ONE. That said, I don't really think highly of Kaishaku given their other works and the original manga version of KnM. Then....what do you have against me stating what they are? o_o All they want to draw is PORN, yes, they are horny manchildren. Sucks because some of their designs are beautiful sans the giant breasts. Such a waste. :/ I really don't want to talk about ChikaHime anymore because it fills me with negative feels, ok.... |
ChiibiJun 6, 2015 8:43 PM
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Chiibi said: Then....what do you have against me stating what they are? Gentle reminder that manga artist ≠ production studio, the anime in particular had a theme going for it and stayed consistent to that. As for Kaishaku, I'd rather not state any opinions since I don't really read their works much. Chiibi said: I really don't want to talk about ChikaHime anymore because it fills me with negative feels, ok.... That's fine, this isn't a KnM thread anyway. |
MelonMilkJun 6, 2015 8:53 PM
| Thank you for being respectful. :) .....so are there any Venus Verses Virus fans in here? Yuri subtext but done so well. |
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Aqua_Mars said: Negative-Travis said: Google said Highschool of the Dead. From the OVA I saw the OVA... I don't remember this. Plus yuri is meh, just as long as something "happens". However i was tricked by a yaoi once, but I caught on when I realized the summary had no she/her, or a distinct girl name. |
D-Wreckk5 said: Aqua_Mars said: From the OVA I saw the OVA... I don't remember this. Plus yuri is meh, just as long as something "happens". However i was tricked by a yaoi once, but I caught on when I realized the summary had no she/her, or a distinct girl name. I watched it LONG LONG LONG AGO. It's not yuri. The reason behind it, well, pretty stupid IMHO. |
#CHEXIT |
JustALEX said: Anyways....my first reaction to Yuri was disappointment. Disappointment that it took me so damn long to realize something like this existed! Probably my MOST favorite yuri moments in any anime... What anime is this from? |
| Ew. Second reaction: Ew. Any reaction at any time: EW. |
AnimeSoap said: I'm curious too.JustALEX said: Anyways....my first reaction to Yuri was disappointment. Disappointment that it took me so damn long to realize something like this existed! Probably my MOST favorite yuri moments in any anime... What anime is this from? |
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| "Wow, that was hot!" *checks FK "fucking better!" |
#CHEXIT |
| Yuri or anime lesbians in general? The first time I watched yuri I loved it. If I ever watch hentai again I'll choose yuri. I've also enjoyed anime with shoujo ai and yuri subtext. |
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| Depends if they make out and do other lewd things. Usually it's just as boring as your run of the mill romance anime. |
| I can't stand yuri that's only there to have a lesbian relationship fetishized without exploring the dynamic of the characters themselves. There's some exceptions but the ones I've come across seem more like they're for the male gaze than for the possibility of having actual lesbian watchers. My first official introduction to yuri was Kannazuki no Miko (already discussed and mentioned up there) which I guess was ok... nothing impressionable though. The only yuri that had an impact on me were the ones where it wasn't the main focus. Haruka and Michiru from Sailor Moon are incredible characters. Then there's Utena and Anthy. Of course, there's also Tomoyo's unrequited love for Sakura. These three relationships are so different and so compelling. I don't know any straight-up yuri that writes their characters as dynamic as these :// I have a feeling I'm not looking hard enough though. |
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