Vampire Knight Chapter 90 Discussion

yunaleia said:
And my point is not an opinion either, given that there are just as many people on here posting about their dissatisfaction of the way the manga has played out. That is also fact.

Though I understand your sentiments as a basis, using your opinion as a writer, to me at least, has no bearing or weight on the arguement.

Yes Hino has targeted her audience in Japan if that is how the populus like to see things, but as a writer, is *potentially* (using this word losely, dont hold me to it) losing a large portion of your reader base (we're not talking numbers or figures, just a generic) by playing out a story line so ... disjointed ... really something to be proud of? Your analysis of the before/after effect of Yuukis relationship with Zero and Kaname, if this was indeed Hino's plan all along, would it not have been at least an idea to slowly either remove Zero from the love triangle or remove him entirely?

"Privilege of reading them" ... when your works become as big as Seo, Hino, Kei et al, I'll bare that in mind ... until then, more conceitedness ...

Edefrem said:
Just when you think you couldn't dislike Kaname even more...I swear if he's trying to bring Zero and Yuuki together I'll flip shit.



WHY SAVE A SHIP THAT HAS FINALLY (AND GODDAMN THANKFULLY) BE SUNK?!?!?

margeaux202 said:
I didn't mind this chapter so much. I agree with other posters in that Kaname is totally trying to revive the Zeki ship. At the beginning of the chapter, she says that it's almost as if Kaname can't live unless he's using his life for someone else- so his deciding to become the new parent substance could be his way of trying to ensure Yuki has a good life (that's the way I look at it anyways).
And yes! Good to see Shiki, Rima and Aido once again!

I don't know why people are confused over why Zero and Kaito were sent to the Kuran mansion...I think it's quite clear that the Association wants to protect the person who said he'd become the new parent, and Zero/Kaito have been the best hunters at the association for many chapters now! But obvs it also has to do with Zero regaining his memories of Yuki back too :P

Chapter 88/89 was the big drama chapter. This one was really just about drawing out what happened after the climax of chapter 89. So I agree with the previous posters who said they were "neutral" on this chapter; I am too.

Personally, I'm not pissed at Yuki or tired of Kaname's drama or sad for Zero. I have definitely connected with all of these characters for sure, but this is the story Hino is telling. I don't think she would end this story with a mediocre ending. This is the same mangaka who told the first half of VK that everyone loves so much, after all.

Orulyon said:


Actually Kaname is gay for Zero since he chased after him the whole fucking chapter.
*Kaname grabs Zero´s arm*
*Kaname gazes at Zero in the hall*
*Kaname secretely watches Zero through the window*
*And then he calls him for tea*
*And then he bites Yuuki LOOKING at Zero*
Behind the scenes

Please dear Heaven´s remove Zero from that house. Kaito is the best bro ever, his words were just...the ultimate truth. I dont want Zero raising the Kuran´s child and then become a pedophile or a stepdad. I dont want him with Yuuki. Zero deserves better and since Zero is my only reason why I keep reading this crap, I wish him the biggest happiness. IMO being alone is better than staying with Yuuki.

I swear if this ends in ZEKI Ill rate this with 1. A lot of months ago long time before Kaname had the "wish" to die I made a prediction and it turned out right. I predicted Kaname would want to die for humanity´s sake. My second prediction was that Yuuki would choose Zero only because Kaname was going to die and that one didnt turn out true...YET. Because honestly Im not seeing Yuuki opening her arms and returning to Zero with Kaname alive.
Even if Yuuki returned to Zero saying "I love you from the bottom of my heart" It is simply not credible anymore because of her attitudes during the whole manga. If she comes and says "I love you more than Kaname" I cannot even believe it. Its not believable you see?!!!

Kaname should stop forcing Zero to remember, its awkward coming from his love rival. Just leave Zero alone for god´s sake. For once in your life just FUCKING LEAVE HIM ALONE, stop thinking in Yuuki, think in Zero at least a little bit. Kaname´s aim is always the same: entrust Yuuki to Zero so the lady can live protected forever with a KNIGHT to protect her above all things. NO. If he wants someone to protect her he should do it himself and stop the nonsense of wanting to die for the sake of humanity. Its like Kaname and his chess: Kaname is the king and he "made" a knight for his queen.
Stop messing with Zero. Now it comes a battle with purebloods and someone is going to get hurt.

MallyMalMal said:
I am not liking the turn this manga is taking now. Here's to hoping a decent ending will happen when it's all said and done.

Orulyon said:

I swear if this ends in ZEKI Ill rate this with 1.

Vesperlynd said:
Such a crap chapter, once again. I'd hoped that there would be some recovery after the disastrous 89 but there's no saving this series now. I've noticed that the discussion traffic has been cut by more than half since 88. Nice job Hino.

I'll reiterate my views on how this will end soon:

- Kaname will die. Not by furnace
- Zero will remember
- Hino will try make Zeki happen. It won't be pretty

Randomxxxx said:
I am hoping Kaname dies to save Zero or something in a way to atone for destroying his life.

HayasakaShion said:
Let me make one thing clear: I don't like Yuki anymore.

That said, I also want to kick Kaname's ass for forcing her to sit practically superglued to him. And for displaying her like a piece of property. Of course, he might only be preparing Yuki to forget him after he died in the Furnace. If that's so then I might like him better, but not much.

Also, what does Hino-sensei think she's doing? She had Kaname KILL Aidou's dad right in front of our eyes, and then, voila, HE'S BACK TO LIFE! Illogical!

At this point I honestly don't care if Yuki draws lots and picks either Kaname or Zero, but this I-love-him-but-like-him-as-well thing is really pissing me off.

Of course, the ShikiRima was the saving grace of this chapter. I loved that. And also the smattering of KaitoZero.

Hopefully Kaname and Yuki will stop banging each other enough to think about what they're doing, and also I really hope something awesomely good happens to Zero. He's had it overdue. I love ya, pal.

Narutowolf77 said:
Kaname IS trying to make Zero remember Yuuki so that he can leave Yuuki to him when he dies there is no other word for it but saving.

yunaleia said:


Quoting myself again here, compliments of Raven_Shinobi in that in almost all shoujo related mangas, if the heroine has a harem of bishies to chose from, the one that she sleeps with first will end up being the end pairing. Now unless Hino intends to prove that what we saw in chapter 89 was simply a night of hugging (rofl - no) then a Zeki ending is by and large impossible. Good for me, good for you, like Eskimo neko too.

You telling me Hino intends to break that manga genre?!

yunaleia said:
It has everything to do with it ... you keep slipping sideways from what I am trying to say and stick your own spin on it ... it's impossible to even attempt to make conversation when you do this. Almost every post you reply with is in the same vain.

Kaname wants Yuuki to be with Zero, but has the gaul to bed her ... what sort of twisted logic is that? Good bye sex? Biyatch please ... that's like backwashing a good champange and passing it to your rival in business (or love) ... Sloppy seconds? No thanks ... I'd rather save myself for someone who loves me without the need to bed someone else (more to the point your worst enemy) to prove that point ...

Narutowolf77 said:
Kaname IS trying to make Zero remember Yuuki so that he can leave Yuuki to him when he dies there is no other word for it but saving.

yunaleia said:

Quoting myself again here, compliments of Raven_Shinobi in that in almost all shoujo related mangas, if the heroine has a harem of bishies to chose from, the one that she sleeps with first will end up being the end pairing. Now unless Hino intends to prove that what we saw in chapter 89 was simply a night of hugging (rofl - no) then a Zeki ending is by and large impossible. Good for me, good for you, like Eskimo neko too.

You telling me Hino intends to break that manga genre?!

yunaleia said:
Kaname wants Yuuki to be with Zero, but has the gaul to bed her ... what sort of twisted logic is that? Good bye sex? Biyatch please ... that's like backwashing a good champange and passing it to your rival in business (or love) ... Sloppy seconds? No thanks ... I'd rather save myself for someone who loves me without the need to bed someone else (more to the point your worst enemy) to prove that point ...

yunaleia said:


Show her where her heart belongs?! I officially give up trying .... I know this is a manga of fantasy, but where in your logic does the profile of a man bedding a woman to show said woman how much she cares for another man fall under? Maybe this is one of those female topics that only females understand ... I dunno ... but in my sense of logic that scenario is FUBAR. You "untwisted" nothing as far as my interpretation goes ... that's just beyond any comprehension in fantasy or reality ...

You love him don't you?
Maybe ... I'm not sure
Okay lets have sex so you can be sure
Alright

Ehhhhhhhhh?!?!?!

yunaleia said:



You love him don't you?
Maybe ... I'm not sure
Okay lets have sex so you can be sure
Alright

Ehhhhhhhhh?!?!?!

yunaleia said:


No no no! This cannot happen. Why? Because it will be another joker card from the Kaname fanbase to *prove* that he is being a selfless anti-hero. This in turn will add a demeaning factor to Zeros character as he would then have a debt to Kaname (a debt to a pureblood vampire more precisely).

He owes Kaname nothing at present. The whole idea of him attempting to *save the Zeki ship* is an idolisation of two characters, both Yuuki and Kaname, being *helpful* towards Zero.

My ideal ending is actually leaning towards Zero dying (here me out first) by saving Kaname before he throws himself in the furnace. Yuuki then ends up losing both of her male interests, Kaname finally gets his wish and Zero can pass away in the knowledge that a pureblood vampire owed him a debt that he now cannot repay and Yuuki would know of it. The end result is that Zero can be at peace in death, Kaname can die and be forgotten about and Yuuki can cry in despair because she has no man to coddle her ... HA! ...

Edefrem said:
I'll murder someone, kick a puppy and scream at a baby if Zeki happens.

kapwned said:
If Yuuki ends up pregnant, she and Zero will NOT be together in the end.

Orulyon said:
WUT? NO. So after all the years of intense pain that Zero has been through, besides having the misfortune of being in love with the crappiest heroine ever, he would die at end?
Fuck no. That boy cannot die without feeling true happiness at least once in his life. Id rather see him go gay with Kaito.

windeen-windy said:
Quoted material under spoiler tag to save room.

yunaleia said:
I suppose if the idea was to flesh out Yuukis character using those criteria, Hino should have done it sooner in honesty. It feels like within 4-5 episodes Yuuki has from *meh okay* status to *wtf woman!*.

If Yuuki had played out to be a confused teenager from the moment she was "vamped" then that would have made sense up to now. Instead what we have is a woman who has shown characteristics from like 4-5 different personas mixed into one. Confused, then direct, then insecure, then forceful and then and then and then, ad infinitum.

One thing about School Days however (uber shudder!!!) is that it was ear marked as a tradegy from the start, so something bad was going to happen eventually. This manga has never had that vibe thus far ... but that could change ...

windeen-windy said:
But anyway it's always been the feeling of her intentions I've gotten.
I've never actually seen School Days in all honesty- and have no intention to see it (It's a bit funny you mentioned it, I had been planning to mention it as a outcome like some that happened in my mom's daytime soaps in regards to the plot twist of a character sleeping with one or more people to see who they really cared for)- Thankfully Orulyon warned me about School days some years ago when she realized I couldn't take that kind of disturbing violence >_<;

yunaleia said:


I'm still awaiting for the almighty bang when Zero actually admits to what he thinks about Yuuki. What will she do when he finally just confesses that he loves her ... Will she go all "But ... I ..." again or indeed will these be the words she has been waiting for? ... In almost either case there will be joy and sorrow, laughter and crying in the fandom world. I just wonder if this could have been made easier if the confusion was laid completely to rest 40 chapters ago.

windeen-windy said:
There was not much reason for him to carry her around like a trophy, even if Zero didn't remember.
It was still mean and vindictive to him and to her to do that.

yunaleia said:


Apparently that is something the major reader base in east enjoys ... Otherwise why would they like Kaname so much? Mass speculation on my part here but with some particular posters on this forum that I have witnessed, this seems to be true ... apparently.

In other news, I've just finished reading KNIM 219 and holy hell! Completely different authors but again this scenario of the female lead thinking that sex is the ultimate test of ones love for another?! This increases my confusion levels exponentially, women cry for equality but in mangas this is what they are reduced to doing ... No attempted sexism here, merely pointing out a very awkward state of affairs.

yunaleia said:
I'm a compulsive forum browser, but I tend to not say anything unless it gets to me in a really positive or negative way. Some topics I find quite bland so I don't bother, VK was this way until 89 then I had A LOT to say.

Although I always prefered Zeki over Yume, I always told myself that in the end it would be Yuuki who makes the decision based on whatever transpired through Hinos depiction of events. Everything is cool, then at 86 the Zeki swing got going (again) by 88 page before last you were really left with "It's gonna happen" and then Kaname (insert troll face + trollololol music) stops the festivities. Okay, I'm cool with this because in some ways the men will always fight and the woman will be indecisive. I understand she has hurt Zero in multiple ways and I dislike her for it, but thats plot and portrayal, I get on with it.

Then 89 ... I think it was said that VK could have started at 88. Forget the other 87 chapters of story. Yuuki beds Kaname under the pretense of what? Do I love Kaname or Zero more? I obviously need to do something to confirm one way or the other ... Ehh?! Grow a spine woman! Confusion or insecurity aside, this is a primal desire, sex, with which one is connected to the other (lets leave out the whole blood/blood of vampires) where both understand each other. Yuuki doesn't understand jack. Let alone this desire.

I push blame towards Kaname insinuating in a manner that lead to Yuuki making a decision based on actions she has yet to fully understand. I'm forcefully making myself think that 89 was just a troll chapter, not just because of the sex scene, but because of HOW it came to pass. The fact it happened is unmitigatable. The facts of how it happened are not even subject to scrutiny or misinterpretation. To me, it is just downright dumb. I want to say it feels like a scene out of an NTR hentai but I'm sure I'll get blown to bits for even considering it ... you know what stuff it ... here we go.

In the worst form of NTR, the female is pushed into a situation she doesn't want because of circumstances that she feels she is unable to fight. Any woman with a backbone could easily get out of these however the NTR genre leads us to believe the female is incapable of doing so. Oppressed and subjugated she cannot escape.

Lets put this into VK and Yuuki. Her oppression begins when she is turned back into a vampire. She now has the responsibilities of a pureblood and is now the fiancé of Kaname. The feelings that grow from this, under the genre of an NTR are progressive, very similar to how she falls for Kaname from my POV. Her subjugation is brought about when she is forced into situations she cannot control. Presiding over the nightclass because of Kaname, before 89 she was hellbent on killing him/and or turning him human, having to remove herself from Zeros memory because when she dies for Kaname his thirst will only grow and be unsatiated. The theme going on here? It all points back to the originator, Kaname. Now NTR is about stealing the female from an already exsisiting relationship. Plutonic or not, Kanames words are "the feelings he has for you, weren't part of my plan" so a relationship did exsist between Yuuki and Zero, any fandom could see this, I'm not talking about love or any level there of, it still exsisted as a relationship.

So that is my take on it, deep as it is and as far out of the ordinary it is also, the layout of the characters and the way in which the story has unfolded, leads me almost too clearly down this road.

windeen-windy said:
I agree with you, believe it or not lol. Completely. So, I'm at least one person who won't be mad/annoyed with you for saying it.
I started out liking Zero. Kaname I didn't care about either way, but then I started liking him as much as Zero.... however, after he turned her, and started acting more openly and we started seeing more of his personality and his mind games, My like of him quickly diminished. Then when he "Killed" Aidou's father I was done with him (I still don't understand what the reason for that
charade was fully. other than to get people to hate him. If so wonderfully done in my case).

I liked Zero a bit less when Yuuki managed to convince him that she had killed the original yuuki.... I think that shouldn't have been believed so easily. But that's neither here nor there, I figured that had to do with his emotions being screwed with, and to a point it was understandable.

Barbara-chan said:
Ah this manga's ending going to be a sh*t. If Kaname dies(die die die die) then probably Yuuki is going to born his child and be with Zero, and that is going to be wtf. If Kaname is going to be alive then poor Zero life was made miserable for nothing, good job-.-
I really hate this manga-.-