Shinsekai yori Episode 21 Discussion

virtuedarkness said:

But Ria kill the whole Giant Hornets without having any feedback. If he can kill his own race then maybe he's really a fiend? or maybe he didn't get any feedback because he from robberfly? or maybe the karma demon are the one responsible for Giant hornet annihilation? Im so confuse @.@

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If its turn out the one who clean giant hornet is the karma demon not Ria(mariaxmomoru child) does that mean Kiroumaru are the only hope to kill Ria? since Ria gonna have death feedback if he try to kill Kiroumaru.

Orsonius said:
I watched the first episode just for fun right before that.
It made this episode just that much better.

RediceRyan said:

Me too. I really want to a prequel that takes place during the first fiends time now.

virtuedarkness said:


But Ria kill the whole Giant Hornets without having any feedback. If he can kill his own race then maybe he's really a fiend? or maybe he didn't get any feedback because he from robberfly? or maybe the karma demon are the one responsible for Giant hornet annihilation? Im so confuse @.@

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If its turn out the one who clean giant hornet is the karma demon not Ria(mariaxmomoru child) does that mean Kiroumaru are the only hope to kill Ria? since Ria gonna have death feedback if he try to kill Kiroumaru.

deave112 said:


LOL!

It's name isn't Ria and it's a boy.

That isn't how death feedback works. It's socially constructed and conditioned into every kid born INTO THE SOCIETY. Mamoria has had no conditioning, he has grown up as a savage without the constructs of the modern society. This is what makes him so dangerous.

virtuedarkness said:

He can turn to karma demon if he not living with society since he didnt have the "living inside holy barrier for safety" idea which prevent Cantus leakage but becoming a fiend is different story as its in his DNA. So if he can kill human without death feedback because he got raise as queerat that explain thing.

But if he the one responsible for Giant hornet annihilation, that doesn't make sense as he suppose not to kill own kind (or it does not apply because from different group). or his DNA got manipulate?

Yangbo said:

#2 Is Kid fiend even a fiend?
- The humans themselves don't fully understand how to manually create a fiend. Even going by the hints given through the series, wouldn't the rats have to put baby Mamaria under some sort of stress & anxiety to mess him up? Which leads to the question why the 'fiend' is obeying the rats.

#3 Maria?
- Everything that leading up to this point (From the ending theme to the multiple dreams) gave me the idea that Maria played a bigger role in all of this. Why would the phrase "Maria must die/should not been born" keep being repeated when Mamoru shared similar blame? Unless the writers are trying to mislead the audience, i feel that Maria (maybe may not be dead) still will play a role in the coming eps.

#4 Deathfeed back
- After rewatching ep 9 (explaination of Deathfeed back) I'm still clueless as ever. To clarify, if your subconsciousness realizes you are about to harm another human, your liver starts to shutdown, getting hypnotized, eventually dying if you continue (also transferred genetically meaning kid Mamaria would have this) Also this effect is not only limited by Cantus since when the old guy stabbed himself and said that Saki was killing him, Saki immediately felt the feedback. (also ep 9)

- What if you don't realize you are killing another human? From last episode that one kid tried to kill Saki because he genuinely believed she was a rat. If he somehow killed her and did not know she was human wouldn't that avoid the death feedback as well?

Not exactly sure I get what you're saying, but to answer your last question: No, DNA has nothing to do with death feedback. Death feedback is like a seed 'planted' into the minds of children by the adults, and as they grow up it conditions their mind to know killing another human is wrong.

So, he can kill queerats all he wants, even though he was raised by them and therefore sees himself as one of them, because he did not have that 'seed' planted into him by society. Death feedback only applies to humans raised up in the modern society.

UEntity said:

And also, explain to me the dry river bed scene....
Why did the both of them come to the conclusion that the guy didn't escape??
I'm soooo confused this episode.... =/

darkfireblade25 said:
So the consensus is that the kid can leak cantus at will AND is a fiend? Is that how he can get past Shisei's perfect defense?

AlexTheRiot said:
don't remember ever hearing it was transferred genetically

AlexTheRiot said:
Nah it probably would have kicked in as soon as he realized he had killed a human.

deave112 said:


LOL!

It's name isn't Ria and it's a boy.

AnimageNeby said:


Guys c'mon, we didn't know whether Mamoria destroyed the Giant Hornets or not. As far as we know, all he did was disarm them like Shisei said. The Robber Flies probably finished them off since they were basically sitting ducks.

AnimageNeby said:
Your assertion that I'm wrong is not being substantiated by logical arguments. :-)

In reciprocity, let me say: I'm right.

That even not all humans follow their own moral isn't a real argument: those that do not follow even their own morals, we find immoral too. In fact, it strengthens my case, thus.

You are also confounding the moral cause of the claim that sentient beings should be free, with the means to do it. It must be apparent that, even if the cause could be claimed moral, therefore the means that are used to get to that cause can still be immoral. Otherwise, the adagio that the goal justifies the (any) means, would be accepted. If that stance is accepted, in reciprocity, someone else can claim - with as much right - that whatever he does is morally right, because it serves *his* goal, including killing you and your family, for instance. Thus, we can see that such a reasoning of arbitrarily chosen morals which are dependent on an equally arbitrary goal, where it isn't even deemed immoral to go against ones' own morals, leads to the simple conclusion that the one with the most power is morally right.

In that case, if the cantus-users win, they are morally right, if the rats do, they are.

I, for one, do not think that the will/dominance of the most powerful constitutes an inherent morality, though. Might does not make right. (Although, of course, in human history, it is often proclaimed and seen as such).

While morals differ from culture to culture, and time to time, in any society there always has been a set of morals to follow, whatever they might have been. And in any society those who disregarded their own proclaimed morals, are viewed as immoral. It would be hard to claim that such things do not apply to a rats' society, since they too, obviously, have and seek the administering of morals - even pretty human-like ones, like the concept of free will on an individual basis, as Squeeler proclaimed to be of ethical value. In fact, I don't think it's possible for a society of social beings to have and maintain a society, without a code of conduct, and thus, also morals.

MaxCrazy7 said:
No matter how bad humanity is, I don't wish it to be replaced. We should be on top of the food chain always. Saki and co better come up with a way to win; they should put that rat in its place!

Zhou said:
You know, I thought Saki would be more shocked after finding out who the fiend is and I pretty much got nothing from Satoru.

dankickyou said:


"...Ria."

Looks like she was pretty shocked, all wide eyed and taken back. I'd say she was speechless, and so was I.

katsucats said:

3) If the fiend isn't a real fiend, then how did he kill Shisei with Cantus leakage? If it's a Karmic Demon, then why aren't the queerats affected by the leakage equally like Shun's town?

katsucats said:


3) If the fiend isn't a real fiend, then how did he kill Shisei with Cantus leakage? If it's a Karmic Demon, then why aren't the queerats affected by the leakage equally like Shun's town?

greedy_anonymous said:
why don't they just kill all queerat queens? queerats can't populate without queens, right? problem solved.

dankickyou said:
They're getting their ass kicked in a defensive war and you want them to fight an offensive war, attack the colonies, locate the queens, and kill them. Are you serious?

dankickyou said:

He really isnt a fiend IMO. Seems more like an untempered PK user like those before the fall of the Slave Empires.