Shinsekai yori Episode 20 Discussion

AnimageNeby said:


Well...yes and no. It's difficult to argue something from the stance of the only intelligence and self-conscious we know: us, humans. It's like debating life in the universe. One might presume there is some, and logic would indicate there is, but we never are going to be sure, until we discover alien life. And actually, we'll never be sure if we actually would recognise life if it's diverting too much from the life that we know, Jim. ;-)

With AI we created, one could say the same: maybe they're so alien, we just don't know how they will react. Maybe they will be content to be used as slaves, indeed.

However...this seems to be more like wishful thinking to me. Whatever differences there might be, I do not think a creation totally escapes an influence of its creator. A child can not *completely* escape his upbringing, ever. A creation made by humans can not be completely out of influence of/from humans. In that case, when experiencing self-consciousness, it will, I think, follow its masters' trait, and ultimately want a freedom for itself. I think this trait supersedes even the more biological/Darwinistic cause of it with humans. For every intelligence high enough to establish a 'self', I think this 'self' will try to express itself and want to be free of its shackles. One would have to deliberately cancel out this strive if one wants to avoid that, and let's face it: while we humans may be smart enough to create such a being, we are not THAT smart to control a sentient, self-aware and 'self-growing' being to that agree, that we can predict it would never yearn to be free. And even if we were, you would always have those humans that disagree, and who will create something that does want that freedom, just like we humans do.

In short, I predict we will, unavoidably, come in this situation, some day in a far away future. My suggestion to our offspring is this: 'raise' your creations/children as you would your own, and let them be free if they want to. Ultimately, when raised 'good' they will be more inclined to be lenient as well, and carry out the basic thoughts of their predecessors (we). I don't think we'll have an eternal live, after all... not even as a race. Nothing has as of yet, not even the dinosaurs, who ruled the world for 250 million years. If it develops into something...different, yet remained its human-influenced core, would that not be the best? A confrontation in a 'Terminator' or 'The matrix' style-version seems to be avoidable to me. We have to get our fear and our lust of dominance go. Or the result will be catastrophic, I fear. Or we'll just have to never create something that rivals human intelligence, but I fear that's an impossible since science is an unstoppable force. If anything is going to bring us to a state of god-like beings (or end in our complete destruction), it's the scientific method. For I can see what it really is: an indomitable, unstoppable, ever-continuing and expanding, relentless force, that will continue as long as humans exist, ever and ever gaining more knowledge and power. It is the single most prominent trait of humans, which will surpass everything else, and possible destroy everything we know, but potentially also solve every problem we know.

I will confess: this is why I feel some pride in being human. For many, many issues we seem not to progress much: ethically, politically, emotionally...we're about the same as when we were in the time of the old Greeks. But scientifically..we've come such a long way. The technology we have now, would be considered unbelievable magic only a few hundred years ago. Few people realise that. The things we have achieved... CERN, a machine of 20 km diameter, 100 metres under the ground, with five detectors as large as a cathedral gaining insights of how the universe was like one billionth after its creation... It's utterly flabbergasting. Do people fully realise the enormity, the fantastic endeavour this entails? I wonder. But it's there, and there only, we truly see human greatness and ingenuity at work, fellow human beings. This is what produces a future which is different from the past. This is the summon of human intellect. CERN, ITER at Cadarache, SNO in Canada, etc.: all those amazing things we've invented. If there is anywhere to look for a 'spark' in humans, I feel it's there.


Anyway, I'm diverting. :-p


As far as the anime is concerned, the topics raised are very poignant yet unsettling. That alone makes this anime pretty exceptional. I've read from another poster somewhere, that it wasn't doing too well, commercially. Maybe we should all try to remediate this, and even if we - let's face it - can all watch this online, for free... maybe we should try to buy it nevertheless. It's good, isn't it? Let's support it, even if we, strictly speaking, don't have to. It's not about money on itself, it's about supporting anime that is worth to be kept alive. There is too much shit floating around as it is. Good shows hardly seem to survive, and I think we, especially in the West, should support those few series that are truly worth the effort. I'm sick and tired of only the Naruto's and Bleach'ses to be commercially viable and be worthwhile for the creators/publishers. After a while, nobody will try anymore with anything non-mainstream.

Therefore...I pledge to buy this series when it comes out with English subtitles.

Who follows?