A Certain Magical Index (light novel)
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| Alright this was a pretty awesome episode. Got to see some cool shit happen with his Imagine Breaker. Also, Aisa looks like she is infatuated with Touma. |
| Just one question, how did Stiyl's skin return? Was it because Aurelius stopped believing? Cause then Touma's arm should have returned immediately as well? |
MrSideliner said: Just one question, how did Stiyl's skin return? Was it because Aurelius stopped believing? Cause then Touma's arm should have returned immediately as well? Yes. Touma's hand is a different case since it was the blade that was created by Izzard not the act of cutting the hand. BTW please pay attention to this part that the anime failed to adapt: "Kamijou Touma had a realistic experience as he remembered a doubt he had left on the battlefield. The King Dragon’s head had emerged from the severed right arm. It was supposed to be a monster created by Aureolus’ fear of Kamijou. That was the logical analysis. But, in that situation, had Aureolus Izzard truly imagined that there was a transparent King Dragon’s head living exploding out of Kamijou’s right shoulder? The likelihood was low but what if, just what if, that monster was unrelated to Aureolus’ powers?" |
| Hmm,was that dragon really just Aureolus's thoughts or something else? Hype,Accelerator is coming next episode! |
| The writing is terrible beyond comprehension. So, that alchemist's entire reason for hiding Aisa in that cram school was so he could saive Index, but when he finds out she's already been saved he decides to kill Touma and Stiyl anyway? "You've saved the person I was trying to save! I'm evil now for some reason and that means you must die." Also, his plan made no sense. Why did he need to hide Aisa in the cram school? Vampires stayed away from the barrier, so there was literally no reason to have her there. All he needed to do was to have her in the open long enough to capture a single vampire, but he didn't. And his power wasn't even alchemy, it was just nonsense that wasn't explained at all. And the only reason he gets beaten by Touma is that he had a mental breakdown for literally no reason. He loses because the plot demands that he loses. I can't believe this show is so popular in spite of the fact that it's written like this. Simply pathetic. Also, Stiyl gets his skin back just because, while Touma's arm doesn't re-attach itself? The writer didn't even try. |
TheAshmanComethJul 4, 2014 5:54 PM
TheAshmanCometh said: Lets break that illusion of yours.The writing is terrible beyond comprehension. So, that alchemist's entire reason for hiding Aisa in that cram school was so he could saive Index, but when he finds out she's already been saved he decides to kill Touma and Stiyl anyway? "You've saved the person I was trying to save! I'm evil now for some reason and that means you must die." Also, his plan made no sense. Why did he need to hide Aisa in the cram school? Vampires stayed away from the barrier, so there was literally no reason to have her there. All he needed to do was to have her in the open long enough to capture a single vampire, but he didn't. And his power wasn't even alchemy, it was just nonsense that wasn't explained at all. And the only reason he gets beaten by Touma is that he had a mental breakdown for literally no reason. He loses because the plot demands that he loses. I can't believe this show is so popular in spite of the fact that it's written like this. Simply pathetic. Also, Stiyl gets his skin back just because, while Touma's arm doesn't re-attach itself? The writer didn't even try. He attacks them because HE wasnt the one to saver her,he put so much into saving her, spent some years of his life for that and in the end found out that a boy with no powers saved her.That WOULD anger some people. He cares for Index not for the rest. His plan made a lot of sense.A magician cant fight a vampire, that is a fact. The reason why Himegami WAS outside the cram school is because he lets her go out and attract them, he doesnt want to have a direct confrontation with a vampire that MAY appear. It was explained.He brings his thoughts into reality.That is all. He has a mental breakdown because his powers seem to NOT work on Touma.All his attacks after he cut his arm missed(thanks to Styil)and he thought that his concentration that is the source of his whole power didnt work.And tOuma was acting like a berserker and had a dragon coming out of his hand. Styil got his skin back because Izzard and his powers were defeated.Touma's hand regrow itself. YOU didnt even try. |
ssjokg said: Lets break that illusion of yours. He attacks them because HE wasnt the one to saver her,he put so much into saving her, spent some years of his life for that and in the end found out that a boy with no powers saved her.That WOULD anger some people. He cares for Index not for the rest. His plan made a lot of sense.A magician cant fight a vampire, that is a fact. The reason why Himegami WAS outside the cram school is because he lets her go out and attract them, he doesnt want to have a direct confrontation with a vampire that MAY appear. It was explained.He brings his thoughts into reality.That is all. He has a mental breakdown because his powers seem to NOT work on Touma.All his attacks after he cut his arm missed(thanks to Styil)and he thought that his concentration that is the source of his whole power didnt work.And tOuma was acting like a berserker and had a dragon coming out of his hand. Styil got his skin back because Izzard and his powers were defeated.Touma's hand regrow itself. YOU didnt even try. Useless! It's all useless! Yes, he wanted to be the one to save her, but that's not a believable reason for someone going out of his way to do a good thing to turn randomly evil. He didn't make the change believably in the least. He went from cool and collected to cartoonishly evil at the drop of a hat. While having someone else take your glory would undoubtedly miff some people, it's unlikely that someone that would go out of their way for someone else's benefit would immediately turn into a cliche madman and try to murder the people that ended up saving her. Remember; Izzard cared about Index so much that he devoted years of his life to attempt to save her. However, when he finds out that she's better, he doesn't even care. What kind of person cares so much about someone one moment and then immediately stops caring and turns homicidal? The two things simply don't go together. But, Himegami can fight the vampires and he didn't even need to be with her, so the entire cram school thing didn't have an actual point. Also, it failed to explain why he was using all of the students as a security measure. He needed the vampires alive, so why would he want to obliterate them with magic beams? It makes no sense. Yes, but WHY can he bring his thoughts into reality? This show doesn't explain any of the important parts. Some characters just have these extremely broken powers without any sort of reason. Why is he able to bring his thoughts into reality? Just 'cause, that's why. Once again, he just snaps in a cartoony way. The only reason he snaps that way is because his power is so broken that the villain would have to behave stupidly in order for Touma to beat him. Mental breakdowns don't just randomly happen to people who appear to be completely sane. My point is, there's no build or flow to any of his behavior; shit just happens because shit needs to happen. Also, you say that Stiyl got his skin back because Izzard lost his powers, but Touma's hand DIDN'T regrow itself, he got it conveniently re-attached by the doctor at the end of the episode. By your own logic, Touma's arm should've re-attached since Stiyl's skin came back, but it didn't, it stayed where it was on the floor. Don't tell me that I didn't even try when you've not only failed to give an adequate explanation for any of my concerns, but also had to guess as to why Touma got his arm back at the end. |
| A magician.MAgicians are crazy like that,about their training,goals,effort, everything in many works.You seem like a Type Moon fan you so should know better. She doesnt fight the vampires and she doesnt even want to.If a vampire enters the school and attacks first anything else except Himegami, like Izzard himself, then it would be a huge deal. The students werent a security measure.He used them for the chanting of the Gregorian Chant which power ups his Ars Magna. As I said, magicians CANT fight vampires.Those students would last for a second. Is this a question like why can Styil create fireballs? It is magic/alchemy.Dont tell me that you understand the reasoning behind Shirou's Projection or Kiritsugu's Time Alter.This is arguing for the sake of arguing. It happens because his ONLY power, the power he went through all that shit to power up so much, suddenly doest work anymore on a kid with powers anymore.And instead of mental break down lets call it being extremely shocked. His hand regrow itself. And part from volume 22: The doctor didnt do anything. He even said how surprised he was and called it a fantasy/miracle. Styil lost his skin directly from Izzard's thoughts. Touma lost his hand by something that Izzard created.Why would Touma's hand reappear because of that? You didnt even try. |
ssjokgJul 5, 2014 4:10 PM
| Type-Moon works adequately explain themselves, so you can't just apply Type-Moon logic to non Type-Moon things. While you're bringing in other authors in order to make your point, maybe you should throw in J.K. Rowling while you're at it. So, he was using the cram school specifically just for the Gregorian Chants? See, that actually answers my question, which is something the show failed to do, unless I'm mistaken. I still don't understand how Izzard couldn't fight a vampire, though. He's able to create anything in his mind, so if he trapped a vampire in a cage he created, why wouldn't that work? The show only says that he can't fight them, but it gives no reason as to WHY he can't fight them, unless of course his extremely powerful "dream things into existence" attacks won't work on vampires. You mention Type-Moon again in response to my question about Izzard's "alchemy", but the problem with that is that Type-Moon goes into exhaustive detail in regards to their character's powers and abilities. Even bearing that in mind, we know that Stiyl is some sort of fire-mage, so it's accepted that he can use fire magic. Additionally, fire magic is used frequently enough in fiction that it's something I'm willing to accept, but "I'm able to think literally anything into reality with no explanation" isn't exactly comparable. I'm not asking for a complete breakdown of how Izzard's power works, but, in the anime at least, we're given nothing. If there's info in the light novel, feel free to share, but the fact remains that the anime doesn't even come close to making sense in that regard. He wasn't extremely shocked, though, as he went into full-on hysterical anime villain mode. See, I understand the idea behind him going crazy, my problem with it is that it's stupid and completely unbelievable. Cliche anime villains typically go crazy for crappy reasons like that, but the fact that it's used frequently doesn't stop it from being bad writing. Let me directly quote the ANIME, which is what this discussion thread is for: "I'm surprised it got reconnected successfully. Is your body a piece of fantasy?" "Doc, you're the one that did the surgery." As you can see, the anime and manga appear to diverge on what happened there. However, we're talking about the anime, not the manga, so it still stands. If the hand regrown itself, the doctor wouldn't have mentioned any reconnection and he certainly wouldn't have needed to operate on it. I'm not even sure why you mentioned the hand regrowing itself in the manga when you specifically mention that Touma's hand WOULDN'T regrow itself: "Touma lost his hand by something that Izzard created.Why would Touma's hand reappear because of that?" So, what you're saying is that Izzard ripping Stiyl's flesh off and killing him was only an illusion because it came from his mind, but blades that also came from his mind would be able to create a lasting cut? That doesn't make any sense. Also, seeing as this episode takes place in the first few volumes of the LN, I don't get why you'd use something from the 22nd LN to defend it. I apologize beforehand if you had a really specific reason for quoting it, but as I'm still early on in the show, I'd really rather not read anything from the very end, even though I intensely dislike some of it. The Sisters arc was a lot better, though, so I'm hoping the show gets better as a whole. |
TheAshmanComethJul 5, 2014 5:17 PM
| The explanations you want wont make it(both magic an dmagicians) more believable, that is the thing.You want them just for the sake of having them. You failing to see the reason behind it isnt bad writing. You know a lot of patients that are AWAKE during such an operation?Touma knows only what he was told. The doctor is calling it a fantasy BECAUSE he didnt do anything himself.The manga and the anime dont diverge at all, I have no idea what you are talking about. I dont understand what is difficult o understand from what I am saying. Touma's hand didnt regrow because Izzard was defeated.Period.It regrow itself with NO relation to Izzard's powers. Styil never died,he was kept alive with all his skin removed. The blades were created by his thoughts not the cut.The cut happened naturally.That is the difference. The reason why I quote volume 22 is because of the issue with the hand. |
| You're saying that explanations DON'T make things more believable? Yes, you're right. There's no difference between Accelerator explaining his vectors and Izzard just having his broken power with literally no explanation given. Since you're a huge Type-Moon fan I find that extremely curious, seeing as a big part of what makes Type-Moon's stories so great are their extremely detailed explanations. However, if you really believe that character consistency and having things be logical doesn't make stories more believable, then there really isn't any point arguing this as we appear to be on two completely different wavelengths. I tried to not look too closely at your quotes as they appear to be massive spoilers for one of the last few volumes in the series, so if they do explain it nearly twenty volumes later, then I am wrong about that. Still, I don't see how him ripping Stiyl's skin off with his powers versus using his powers to create blades to cut Touma would be any different without an explanation being given. Wouldn't the use of force to tear skin be equivalent to using a blade to cut flesh? |
TheAshmanCometh said: You're saying that explanations DON'T make things more believable? Yes, you're right. There's no difference between Accelerator explaining his vectors and Izzard just having his broken power with literally no explanation given. Since you're a huge Type-Moon fan I find that extremely curious, seeing as a big part of what makes Type-Moon's stories so great are their extremely detailed explanations. However, if you really believe that character consistency and having things be logical doesn't make stories more believable, then there really isn't any point arguing this as we appear to be on two completely different wavelengths. I tried to not look too closely at your quotes as they appear to be massive spoilers for one of the last few volumes in the series, so if they do explain it nearly twenty volumes later, then I am wrong about that. Still, I don't see how him ripping Stiyl's skin off with his powers versus using his powers to create blades to cut Touma would be any different without an explanation being given. Wouldn't the use of force to tear skin be equivalent to using a blade to cut flesh? What you say makes the world itself more interesting.It doesnt make it better written.Izzard can turn his thoughts into reality (but cant alter natural laws).Putting aside how he came to be able to use Ars Magna, to do that he needs a lot of concertation.For even the smallest things.I dont see how that isnt enough.Time Alter's explanation is an inner RM that alters the body's speed.WHat makes Tme Alter better written or believable? Even Accelerator saying that he manipulates vectors doesnt make sense(or anything any esper does).The "Each esper has his/her unique Personal Reality and thus can bend natural laws to their will" isnt an explanation that makes sense.It's interesting and it helps to expand more its own universe, but that's it.I cant understand why you stuck on that. Izzard THOUGHT that he lost his powers, which actually resulted to him not being able to use them at all.If this isnt a reason for him to be SO shocked then what is? The blade itself is what Izzard created.The cut was a result. It is like Imagine Breaker can destroy/negate a fireball but cant do the same with the ash it created(result). |
| It doesn't just make it more interesting, it adds depth which furthers our understanding without leaving a disconnect between things, which is good writing. For example: We start at point A. Character does things which lead him to move towards point B. Character arrives at point B. With that, we as the audience have a better understanding of what's occurring with there being less disconnect between events. On the other hand, we have: Jeffrey is at point A. Then he's at point B. Depth leads to greater understanding and ties the story together. If there is no depth it makes the scenario less believable and can damage the overall glue of the story. Therefore, adding detail and depth doesn't simply make a story more interesting; it adds to the cohesion of the overall narrative. That depth also fills in the holes in our understanding and deletes the necessity for the audience to make assumptions, which is what you're doing while you're describing Izzard's reasoning. The info isn't there, which leads to a disconnect between events and forces us to make assumptions as to what's taking place. All you have to say about it him is that he needs concentration, but concentration to do what? The difference between Izzard and Accelerator is that Accelator at leasts ATTEMPTS to give the audience an explanation as to how his powers work. It doesn't make sense, but the explanation's there, so we at least have a super-vague understanding as to how the character went from point A to point B. Additionally, while he's considerably overpowered, his powers are specific enough to be acceptable based off of the criteria we've been given, even if the explanation is weak (I can control fire vectors and air vectors and blahblahblah.) I can't speak well for Time Alter as I still haven't read the F/Z novels. However, I seem to recall the anime explaining the ability to some degree. Additionally, the series gives us a very solid understanding of how magic works in the Fate universe, so the conclusion of Kiritsugu's abilities are definitely informed by our understanding. The "alchemy" on display in Index does no such thing. We are shown that he has ridiculous powers, not told anything about them and then we're expected to accept it based on nothing. "Even Accelerator saying that he manipulates vectors doesnt make sense(or anything any esper does).The "Each esper has his/her unique Personal Reality and thus can bend natural laws to their will" isnt an explanation that makes sense."" Yes, very little in Index is explained or sensible, which is a good chunk of the reason that I'd argue that it's badly written. What I just quoted you as saying is what I consider evidence that Index is pure, unadulterated bad writing. Any time a story says, "This is the way things are" and fails to explain why, but still says, "Go with it" is bad writing. If it was well written we wouldn't have to just go with it, we'd be lead from point to point. Now, that isn't to say that we need to be kept abreast of every last, or even most details, but when you have no idea how the main components that are holding a story together are supposed to function, that becomes a serious narrative issue. As I've said, before his stupid little attack of crazy anime villain disease, Izzard appears calm and collected. My argument isn't so much that it's unreasonable for him to be surprised by his sudden lack of ability, but that it only turns out that way because Touma needs to have a way to win the fight. Like that moment where Izzard once again tries to fire blades at Touma and the blades pass right through him; him failing to cut Touma helped lead him to believe that he'd lost his abilities, but him failing to cut him also occurs BEFORE he really believes that he's lost his abilities. Prior to the repeated fired blades passing through Touma, the only thing that happened was Touma getting his arm cut off. In order to support your theory, Izzard would have needed to have lost faith in his abilities simply because Touma started laughing after getting his arm cut off, which has nothing to do with Izzard's power not working. Sure, it would've been surprising and freaky, but is that really a reason for his powers to immediately lose their effect? These stipulations lead to the conclusion that Touma doesn't get cut there because the plot calls for him not to be cut and Izzard loses his shit even further because the plot broke its own rules in order to advance itself. "The blade itself is what Izzard created.The cut was a result." That also applies to the skin ripping. Stiyl's skin doesn't just fall off, it has to be ripped off. In the same way that Izzard fired the illusory blade, he created the force to rip his skin off, with the ripping of the skin being the result of the force. To simplify, blade=force, severed arm=flaying. Even if Izzard had just said, "your arm gets cut off" there would still be required force, therefore, it wouldn't be any different if he'd said that instead of shooting the blade, because both were illusory in the first place. |
| There are no assumptions though.After acquiring Ars Magna ,Izzard is able to bring his thoughts into reality through intense concentration or else he cant do shit.After he saw that his powers stopped working he lost it.The jargon that you want to put in between dont give it depth of any kind. What I said about Time Alter is exactly the explanation we were given.It is NO DIFFERENT from Ars Magna.What you are doing is glorifying Fate/ while trashing Index. Reality Marbles are exactly like Personal Realities if we dont count that RMs have a penalty from the world itself.As I said above, what you are doing is glorifying Fate/ while trashing Index. This is extreme bias on your part. FFS this it is just like in FZ, when some guy stuck on how Zouken's worms work, why can worms power up someone.... And as I said before Izzarda kept losing his target because of Styil.Styil was using his fire illusions to make Izzard attack elsewhere.None of the attacks before or after going crazy was directed to Touma.This along with other stuff I said in in the novels. No it is different."The skin being ripped" is what Izzard created with his thoughts not the "force" that did it.If he had put any thought into the HOW, then it could have been so. No he wouldnt need anything.The arm would just be cut off from nothing. This is isnt the only magic, in Index at least, that has no "force" behind. |
ssjokgJul 6, 2014 3:09 AM
| Once again, that simply isn't true. You keep defending it by saying the same couple of vague things, but those two things aren't sufficient for our understanding. Here's something odd, I went ahead and googled Time Alter out of curiosity and one of the main links I get is this: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=712561 In that link you go into paragraph after paragraph describing Time Alter. Compare that to your description of Izzard's power, which is only "he brings his power into reality through intense concentration." Comparatively, that's nothing. If you look at both descriptions you can come to a pretty simple conclusion: Izzard's ability has absolutely no context or reasoning and Kiritsugu's has considerable depth that makes everything make more sense. I'm not "glorifying Fate while trashing Index" because there's no quality comparison between the two. From what I've seen (which is honestly only 15 episodes) Index isn't even remotely in the same ballpark as Fate. Comparing the two is like comparing The Dresden Files to A Song of Ice and Fire. Reality Marbles are explained, though. This is my thing you keep discounting. I want even minor explanations for how things work, not just a tossed off sentence. Also, I found Zouken's worms to be well-explained. Nasu doesn't just say, "he's got a cellar filled with worms that have power" and call it a day. "And as I said before Izzarda kept losing his target because of Styil.Styil was using his fire illusions to make Izzard attack elsewhere.None of the attacks before or after going crazy was directed to Touma." I don't know how it is in the novels, but in episode 9 of the anime the only thing that happens before Izzard goes crazy is him cutting Touma's arm off. The only thing that happens after is him shooting at and then creating those "infinite guillotine" things to kill Touma. Both before and after Izzard goes nuts Stiyl is on the ceiling with his flesh ripped off. As you're intimately familiar with the entire story of Index and I've only seen the first fifteen episodes of the show, I'm willing to drop the whole "force" thing. Hell, maybe later on in the series it thoroughly explains everything about the way the magic and science works. As of now, though, it's littered with plot holes and nonsensical behavior. No matter how much you love the series as a whole, that doesn't change the fact that the first nine or so episodes of this show are riddled with such problems on a near-constant basis. Remember, while you say that I'm trashing Index due to bias, from my point of view it appears that you're defending it due to an opposite bias. |
| Except that all those paragraphs of explanation arent in the FZ anime Or FZ LN.It is from book materials released AFTER the main story.It serves as nothing more other than making the world and the power more interesting. What you are asking is for the author to go in long unnecessary details that in the end result in the same thing. You are missing the point, being detailed or not doesnt change that it still doesnt become more believable.Yes Reality Marbles are explained.But WHY can a magi use one? Zouken's worms arent explained in the anime though.Still asking "how is it possible" when it is obvious that they arent normal worms is like what you are doing here. Now we go back in the novel.Styil's runes were scattered in the room and he was still alive.As long as a magician is still alive they can cast magic.This was explained by Styil during the hospital scene, because Touma seemed to think that it was all thanks to his acting that Izzard lost it. No, I am defending the writer. I dont think that YOU would attack Nasu about the million problems Deen's FSN has, right? As for Alchemy:[spoiler] Alchemy (錬金術 Renkinjutsu?) is a subbranch of magic that is traditionally associated with turning base metals such as lead into gold and creating an elixir of immortality. However the true goal of alchemic branch of magic is to model everything in the world.[1] A practitioner of alchemy is called an alchemist, the only known one being Aureolus Izzard. Principles With it simply being a sub-branch of magic, naturally, several applications and theories that are present in magic( such as the teachings of Hermes Trismegistus, which the Golden Dawn advocates).[2] With the teaching that alchemy is not only that of turning lead into gold, but is a process in which to make a natural body into perfection, the process is called Magnum opus or Ars Magna. Or simply put, humans are incomplete gods and through training and making one complete, humans can become gods.[3] Indeed, according to Stiyl Magnus alchemy is an unrefined knowledge, and i a magician is referred to as an alchemist if they deal with subject matter closely related to it and are untalented enough for other roles.[2] Furthermore Stiyl also pointed out several times that as the goal of Alchemy is to simulate the entire world, any result that they happen to get before reaching the ultimate objective would, or should be seen as useless by the alchemist [4]. Ars Magna Ars Magna (黄金練成 (アルス＝マグナ) Ōgon Rensei?, lit. Imbued Gold) is Latin for Great Work. It is the spell in which alchemist would achieve their goal of simulation of the world inside the mind. With Ars Magna, they can bring out thoughts into the real world, essentially, making those who can accurately simulate or mold the real world would be able to control it.[2] However, according to Stiyl, since alchemy is an unrefined knowledge, modeling the entirety of the world and its laws into a chant takes centuries even with the assistance of descendants and removing of unnecessary lines. Kamijou Touma deducted that this why the prospect of why actual existing vampires are sought after by the magic side, by both alchemists and normal magicians, since one can achieve to finish the chants of the level of Ars Magna if one is able to figure out vampire's immortality.[2] Hence forth, no one has yet to achieve Ars Magna under the above means.[5] Aureolus Izzard is the only person who has managed to achieve Ars Magna. By utilizing the Gregorian Chant Replica to chant the spell simultaneously, he was able to bypass the time required to chant the spell in only a mere seven days as well as increase its effects 120 times.[5] In his use, the Ars Magna distort reality through his thoughts, and require a vast amount of concentration to accurately model a thought into reality with it. Limen MagnaEdit Limen Magna (瞬間錬金 （リメン＝マグナ） lit. "Shunkan Renkin" (Instant Alchemy)?) is a type of Alchemy that was used by Aureolus Dummy and possibly Aureolus himself could use it if he so desired; in normal conditions the basic procedures for the alchemy of turning lead into gold are very bothersome and quite expensive [6], this makes it so that the actual cost and effort employed in the task results in such that the produced Gold is of little reward when compared to the annoyance of the process. Limen Magna is an ability that Aureolus Dummy used that collected and condensed "natural mana" from the building and created the "turn into gold" process in an instant [4] , even though it's not nearly as impressive as Ars Magna; the pinnacle of alchemy, we have that Stiyl commended the versatility of Limen Magna was still something beyond the current limits of modern alchemy, even thought it's just doing something that's being done in a new manner [4]. |
| But even in the anime his power is given a better explanation than nothing. Look, this is all I'm trying to say: I want SOMETHING. I don't need to know everything. I don't even need to know a lot. I just want something and I feel like this particular anime isn't giving me what I need to be invested in a story. I'm not asking for long unnecessary details, I just want some context. Even a little context. In the first nine episodes of this show, illogical things that don't jibe with the characters or their universe are thrown at us. I don't need a Mahouka level of boring over-explanation, I just need the implication that the author or staff cares enough about their story to allow me to suspend my disbelief. And you're missing MY point. This is fantasy, there's no way that it's going to be believable in a realistic sense, so I'm not asking for that. One of the only things I personally require from an anime is that a show's world is consistent enough that I'm able to suspend my disbelief, so I want even a small amount of detail to hold the story together, as I said previously. I feel like you're misunderstanding me on this. For me, the Fate universe's explanations are adequate to suspend my disbelief. For me, that isn't the case with Index. Also, like I said, I'm JUST talking about the anime. Stiyl may very well have been casting in the books, but in the anime, that doesn't happen. I've ONLY seen the anime. I can't comment on the novels as I haven't read them and most likely will never read them. From what you're saying, it appears that the anime has cut out a lot of important stuff, but having not read the novel, how can I know that when I'm only talking about the anime? If that's the case, you don't have to keep going back to these things. All you need to say is something along the lines of, "the anime didn't do a good job explaining it, but the explanations are in the books." I didn't watch the F/SN anime, I just read the VN, so that's another thing I can't comment on. Here's something I want you to understand, though, so I'll say it again: my entire frame of reference in regards to the Index universe is related to this show, therefore, since I haven't read the novels most of my comments should be directed towards the show itself, because, once again, I haven't read the novels. Seeing as that's the way it is, let me just ask you a simple, direct question; do you personally feel that this show itself, taken only on its own merits, adequately explains itself and makes you invested in its world, all on its own? And a separate question; do you feel that the show fails or succeeds in regards to adapting its source material? |
| I dont see how Time Alter's explanation in the anime is more detailed than Ars Magna but lets drop that issue. In your first post you talked about the writer so I assumed out had a vague idea of the LN's content. TheAshmanCometh said: Seeing as that's the way it is, let me just ask you a simple, direct question; do you personally feel that this show itself, taken only on its own merits, adequately explains itself and makes you invested in its world, all on its own? And a separate question; do you feel that the show fails or succeeds in regards to adapting its source material? Yes I believe that it did a good job at keeping me interested(note that I watched Index 5 years ago so maybe my opinion would be different now(.1)I would be really biased because of the LN and downrate the hell out of it or .2)Rate it high because I can fill the holes. I dont know how I would treat it without the LN ).The reason I started the LN is because the anime made me wanna read the source.Does it explain ANYTHING as much as the LN does?No ofc not, but the minimum that is required for me to accept their powers is there.This is a problem with how much each one of us can suspend our disbelief. It fails.Foreshadowings are missing, powers are changed,the mains' motives are downplayed or are totally unclear,char development barely exists,enemies appear stronger in the anime than they really are, resulting in "asspull" victories(mainly season II), animation errors that create plotholes(Touma touching magic objects with his right hand but nothing happens). The only good adaptations of Raildex are the Railgun anime, either because the source is a manga or cause the project team is different, I dont know.But then they are filled with random filler that make Index's bad parts look amazing(unless if cute girls doing cute things while going from asspull to asspull(like...Misaka having no problems in space while wearing only her school uniform) is your cup of coffee) |
| Ohhh, I was talking about the scriptwriter. I should have clarified. Alright, so that's good to know, then. So, how about this one; do you think season II wouldn't be worth watching for me or should I just watch both Railgun series, or just Railgun S? Also, does the manga do a better job of adapting the LNs than the anime does, or are they similar in quality? |
TheAshmanCometh said: Ohhh, I was talking about the scriptwriter. I should have clarified. Alright, so that's good to know, then. So, how about this one; do you think season II wouldn't be worth watching for me or should I just watch both Railgun series, or just Railgun S? Also, does the manga do a better job of adapting the LNs than the anime does, or are they similar in quality? Hard to give a good rec for this one. Unless if you liked season I for the chars and setting you wont like season II.Then there are a lot of people that like either of them for one reason or another. The only thing I can say for sure is that season II has in the worst arc(two or three eps) from the LNs and that the ending sucks since it stops RIGHT when ALL arcs start to connect with each other. LN AND manga readers aside, the Railgun anime is more aimed at K-on fans.That is the only logical conclusion after watching both seasons.Both suffer from the original content disease. I think you watched the Sister's arc in Index so just watch Raigun S eps 1-16 which is the same story only this time it is from Misaka's POV isnt just that one rushed night that was shown in Index. Better animation,development ,soundtrack, fights and powers that stay true both to the Railgun manga and Index LN. What I was talking about in previous posts and the imgs I posted are from the latest chapters of the Railgun manga which is a side story of Index, not an adaptation.Chronologically it starts before Index meets Touma and right now it somewhere in the middle of Index season II. The Index manga is even worse than the anime.I mean I understand not making the viewers doubt that the Dragon Head like the narration of the LN did, but omitting everything including its appearance,when it one of the most important things in the series?And no that isnt the only important thing that is missing. |
| Oh sheit! That was gruesome! I didn't expected that xD I thought his power would be to create illusion, but he really did lost his arm. Though, I didn't understood how Stiyl got his skin back... That alchemist was kinda cool... until he turned crazy. Never go full crazy. Next episode, it look like it's finally time for Misaka and Accelerator, that vilain I heard so much about. He better be really cool :P |
| «Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.» - Kurisu Makise a.k.a. The Zombie |
minouneetzoe said: Oh sheit! That was gruesome! I didn't expected that xD I thought his power would be to create illusion, but he really did lost his arm. Though, I didn't understood how Stiyl got his skin back... That alchemist was kinda cool... until he turned crazy. Never go full crazy. Next episode, it look like it's finally time for Misaka and Accelerator, that vilain I heard so much about. He better be really cool :P He believes his power lost it's effect, because his attack to Stiyl was perspective attack then it will revert to normal(I believe he said something like"if i think like that, then...." or so, isn't?). While Touma literally have his hand chopped up by a blade. |
| HOLY FUCK! The sight when Steel got torn apart was disgusting. But Touma's missing hand censoring was poor. Steel peeling an apple for Touma - golden. Why the hell do people in anime always peel apples though. It's the best with skin. This is much better than Railgun so far. |
| What the hell was this? Is that dragon that Aereoulo's thoughts before he collapsed or was Touma's arm raelly like that? |
_Dazzle_ said: What the hell was this? Is that dragon that Aereoulo's thoughts before he collapsed or was Touma's arm raelly like that? |
| HOLY SHIT TOUMA WAS FUCKING BEAST! Best episode yet! 5/5 |
| okaaaaay. so good battle. but once again they throw bullshit into the aftermath. when your whole arm gets chopped off, you cant have "surgery" to put it back on to be fully functional again. and it never explains how touma even beat the alchemist. "you dont distort reality with your words, you make your thoughts into reality" wtf kinda bullshit is that? -1pt for another episode smeared with shit |
~my list
| Weird episode |
| The sisters arc is next? Interesting. I already saw Railgun S so I'm not convinced that Index will do it better but it could be interesting to see the same arc focused on a different character. |
| Why does every antagonist insist on using magic on someone whom they know has spell immunity? If they had a brain, touma would have died in the first episode and this show would not exist but unfortunately they do not. |
ANIME LIST
PROFILE
MUSIC| Everything was awesome in this episode :D |
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| I'm curious to Izzard what his new form is. Index is so bold. <3 Unexpectedly gory episode. Hyped for the next episode. |
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| I love how bloody it is while he's laughing. He's taking the word psychopath to a new level. Touma should've said, "I saved you because I want to get more harem girls" Well another harem on board, I think |
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| Sorry but I couldn't be bothered to read all the other comments. Just gonna say what I thought. I'm starting to like Touma a bit more :D He's an enjoyable character overall, but the crazy vibes we got there were excellent (even though he was acting). This anime is getting more and more interesting. Started to like the world from the first episode, but it's getting even better. At first it had a happier feel, but now it's getting more serious and I'm loving it. Touma ''going insane'' was probably the best part. Just couldn't hold myself back and mentioned it again. I saw the preview... and the white haired character is going to be introduced soon! (Accelerator?) I can't wait!!! He'll probably become one of my favorite characters. I can just feel it. Overall excellent episode! Loved the suspense and seriousness! Oh and I think I should mention that I had to watch the dub version since sub wasn't available currently. But it wasn't bad at all, in fact it was pretty good! Don't regret it. But I'd like to rewatch it in sub someday to compare them and see how big the difference is. |
jinxiecanMar 5, 2016 2:26 PM
| ''One is enough, find someone completely unique'' -Yato ''You can't feel lonely if there's no one else around'' -Yamaken ''Because it's broken, it will never recover'' -Nanami |
| They didn't answer the question after all. If he could really bring everything into reality, then why didn't he just imagined a vampire? |
| That was hilarious! +1 to the harem... |
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| This was an okay conclusion to the arc. I don't like the alchemist dude's motivation, but I do like the way the situation was resolved, with Touma convincing the alchemist that his powers don't work anymore. Finally he's not just punching people as a solution, that got boring quickly. |
| Touma handed his ass, that was pretty cool. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| That was pretty cool of Touma. Misaka next episode. |
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| That was one shitty villain. His only motivation to kill them was that they already did what he planned to for three years. I mean seriously? And him panicking over basically nothing was also weak af. |
| This arc doesn't provide enough explanation to all introduced elements. The alchemist powers are beyond broken and what happened after the knights summoned holy bombardment or they just skipped on that. Why is the miko girl even walking around in public after toma defeated izzard if she doesn't want to attract vampires and the church needs her? Also, how is she still alive if izzard imagines her death, did toma cancel her death? |
SolidTitaniaDec 22, 2017 4:36 AM
| so will Aisa live with them or something...hmmm |
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| well wow the stroy expands on... I really like the story more and more |
| |
| wow I'm glad I read the LN before watching the past 3 episodes |
LeMastaJan 5, 2019 10:00 AM
| Best ep so far just bc Touma looked insane hahhah X) Gotta love the dark shit <3 Hime-chan is sooooo pretty and adorbs <3 I'd rather ship her with Touma than bratty little Index :3 she sure does have obsessive old partners tho... lol. They're all crazy about saving her and become such a nuisance smh :X |
| After watching 9 episodes of Toaru Majutsu no Index, I don't understand why ppl hate Touma and Index. They are not annoying. So, about the Deep Blood Arc. It's good despite the confusing first episode. I'm going to repeat that I like how Touma use his brain to win. I like Aureolus as a villain, it's a shame that he won't be around anymore. Himegami Aisa is another interesting character. Ars Magna seems to be very broken but it just allows Aureolus to think of anything and make it into reality... Now, I'm going back to finish Railgun. |
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
| LUL they tried to depict touma as some kind of evil monster when he was fighting the other guy when in reality he's the last of the cliches-uninteresting-naive-idealistic protagonists with dogmatics views on justice and good and bad. Nurguburu said: for the reasons I stated above. I'm going to tell you how I feel and I think that's what most people think too about this series: this show was written for childrens, from the way the characters behave, the story develops and the manichean view of and on the antagonist and protagonist. the litttle jokes and the humour is relatively childish.After watching 9 episodes of Toaru Majutsu no Index, I don't understand why ppl hate Touma and Index. They are not annoying. the protagonists has no personnality. he's unninteresting, and the others reasons I stated above. we see this kind of protagonists so often it's realy become a shitty repetitive and a redundant trope. also I disagee on aureolus, he looked he might be interesting but he broke and panicked like any manichean destined-to-be-used-as-a-tool-to-show-the-protagonist-is-stronger villain, though he had a little story going on here it wasn't too bad tbh. this is my opinion, I'd like to hear your answer to me, I'd be interested. |
Mattinator95 said: well if I didn't "get it" I assume you're qualified to explain to me why this is the case and you're gonna explain to me what I didn't get am I right?Zehennagel said: LUL they tried to depict touma as some kind of evil monster when he was fighting the other guy when in reality he's the last of the cliches-uninteresting-naive-idealistic protagonists with dogmatics views on justice and good and bad. for the reasons I stated above. I'm going to tell you how I feel and I think that's what most people think too about this series: this show was written for childrens, from the way the characters behave, the story develops and the manichean view of and on the antagonist and protagonist. the litttle jokes and the humour is relatively childish. the protagonists has no personnality. he's unninteresting, and the others reasons I stated above. we see this kind of protagonists so often it's realy become a shitty repetitive and a redundant trope. also I disagee on aureolus, he looked he might be interesting but he broke and panicked like any manichean destined-to-be-used-as-a-tool-to-show-the-protagonist-is-stronger villain, though he had a little story going on here it wasn't too bad tbh. this is my opinion, I'd like to hear your answer to me, I'd be interested. You cleary didn't get why he was acting like an evil monster and it wasn't becouse it was trying to depict him as such |
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