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My analysis of Lelouch living

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11-29-08, 8:43 AM

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So, this shouldve been up yesterday but due to some technical difficulties i couldnt get it up =/. But oh well its up. Ive gotta say, its not as long as it should be, but i dont think its done yet...im pretty sure ive forgotten to put some stuff in there but oh well, this is what ive got


This is pretty much how I went about in this
-code inheritance
-CC and lelouch bond
-lelouch maturing
-cranes/symbols
-w/e else I wanted to say



Okay I really didn’t know where to begin this because there is a lot of stuff to talk about. So I’ve decided FINALLY to just go chronologically according to the last episode, well some what chronologically. Well Ill begin with the most obvious and that is Lelouch getting stabbed by suzaku. The main reason he didn’t die right here and now was that he had the code that he took from his father. Back in r2 ep 21, Lelouch was able to stop Charles plan by geassing the gods “to not stop the progress of time”. In order to do this he developed a mature geass. With geass in both eyes, one obtains the power to take a code. Some people may not agree with crossings stuff like this but then you got to think again, if charles can take CCs code, then why cant Lelouch take charles? In CC case, the code was forced upon her without any choice, while in charles case he took it from VV.








(haha, it wasn’t intentional that it came out CODE GEASS up there, just coincidence.)
Here is a little chart that I drew up quickly on MS paint. As you can see, there is a bit of crossing going on. Both lelouch and charles both have interference from an outside source. Charles would have received a CODE CODE while Lelouch would receive CODE GEASS. It wouldn’t be put GEASS CODE because as you do in a lot of things, you always put the biggest one, or most powerful one first. For example, in math, its always ax^2+bx+c. Yeah, I think it ties into the title here. So now lets kinda backtrack to exactly how he got it. Lelouch did indeed mature his geass to a point in which it was powerful enough to defeat the gods. So heres a little side not of what charles said in R2 ep 15 when lelouch tried to kill him for the second time, “Defeat me with the power of kings and you will surpass the power of kings!” He was unable to “kill” charles again in that episode because his geass wasn’t powerful enough. The difference between their first and second encounter was his geass lvl. (first encounter one eye geass, second both eye geass)
Now back to r2 ep 21 where the world was facing certain destruction.


Charles: And what of it, the ragnarok junction has already begun.
Lelouch: Who knows, I am Zero, the man of miracles.
Charles: geass wont work on me and even others-
Lelouch: But isn’t there someone else?
Charles: Impossible!
Lelouch: that’s right, the world of C is the will of all humans, and humans are not equal, those were both your words. Because they are not equal you know what that means of my powers no?
Charles: Foolish lelouch! The power of kings cannot defeat the gods!
Lelouch: Gods! The Collective unconsciousness! Do not stop the progress of time!


Hmp, when Lelouch said, “but isn’t there someone else?” my first thought was that he was inferring to Marianne, but I guess not lol. So back to the point, by geassing the gods not to stop time, he pissed the shit out of the emperor. He then “flew” towards lelouch telling him that, if you deny me, then he is a fool, for schneizels world is hell. Lelouch replies telling him even so, he will accept it, and then is like BEGONE!



Uh huh, so doesn’t this add to the possibility of Lelouch receiving a code? If geass is the power of kings and the code is the power of gods, wouldn’t that be geass beating the code? At the exact moment he said “BEGONE” they followed his command and died by disappearing into nothing. Its not coincidence, I’m pretty sure if his geass was strong enough to geass the gods that he could geass charles. You guys may complain and say that he had already been geassed, but that was during his last lifetime, which totally makes him susceptible to being geassed again or maybe the geass was just too powerful. It has also been proved that Charles died, Continue vol 42 listed Charles and Marianne as dead, dying in the 21 episode. This adds even more onto lelouch being alive. How do you kill a person with a code? You gain a geass powerful enough to take it. If the code can be taken from someone who hasn’t bestowed power on them, then it would allow crossing in contracts. As I said earlier, if Charles can take CC code, why cant lelouch take Charles?

Some people, who I really don’t like, like to say that the name RR cant fit in with CC, VV because charles didn’t have a name like that. So in other words what does R2 exactly stand for? When I first saw the series I really thought it mean rebellion 2 because that does make a lot of sense however as I watch the anime I was like, maybe it means something different. In Japanese, sometimes L are substituted for R’s for the reason I do not know, but that’s how you would get R2. To go further in depth with this, I have to combat one of the main disputes against this reasoning. Some people say that this name can’t be possible for people with codes don’t always have double letter names such as CC. Charles didn’t have a name such as that, and if it did it would also be CC says some of the people. Well sorry to strike you down, but I will. The reason why lelouch’s name has changed was because he lost his identity as Lelouch vi Britannia or Lelouch Lamperouge. It is just as CC did, and most possibly VV (they died). CC we know has out lived her normal time period and is no longer “alive” in it. VV most likely was most likely killed during the sibling wars back when they were children, it is because of this that he still has that child like body of his. He’s really about 50ish but on the outside hes only like 10… I say, that it is because charles hasn’t really “died” yet that he doesn’t have a name change. Change only comes to those who have lost everything.


Next, Im going to move to something that’s really quite ironic due to lelouch eventually gaining a code. Back when Scheizel was ready to kill suzaku and lelouch together, lelouch geassed Suzaku to “LIVE ON!”. This would later be treated by suzaku as a curse, this geass of his. However he learns how to use it effectively as would a geass user. Lelouch bestowed that power upon him, and isn’t that what people with codes do? It could have just been an inference, but I do find it quite ironic. So in the end, the geass that suzaku accepts, is to “live on!”. However he is no longer living on as suzaku, but as Zero. Ill come back to this in a bit.

Okay, now to prove lelouch’s bond with CC.
In the beginning, we see lelouch caring nothing for CC, even calling her a “bitch” in ep 5. But over time we drastically see a change in his behavior towards CC. She is not only there to be an annoyance but is there for lelouch as well. During the course of the entire series they grow closer/connect and that’s why I believe that CC couldn’t have been happy in the end if lelouch had truly died. When CC loses her memories in the second season we learn one utmost important thing about her. We learn what she sees an accomplice/ally as.







Because CC was alone all those years, she used the term accomplice to hide what she really meant, and that was a friend. Its not something secretive like partners in crime, well maybe it is but still, all she wanted was a friend. A friend who would introduce her to new people and loves her. I think the reason why she made a contract with Mao was because she felt sorry for him. The reason why she made a pact with Marianne, I think was truly to die, for as Marianne said, CC did previously agree to the plan. As for lelouch, she made one for grant her true wish, which wasn’t to die, but to be truly loved…Sad I know, but we must continue

Early in the first season when the Black knights were prepared to lauch and assult to catch cornelia, CC asked lelouch a question, or more so told him
“Do you know why snow is white? Its because its forgotten its color…”


This quote that CC said basically refers to herself as she has forgotten who she was. She was white. Later lelouch answers her, after he had removed the shrapnel from her

“CC, I don’t know why snow is white, but I do find such white snow beautiful, I don’t dislike it at all”


Uh huh, and if you can put the pieces together, you find that he’s really saying that she is beautiful and he doesn’t dislike her at all. Yeah, hes not going to say “I love you CC”, hes not that kind of guy, his pride gets in the way of that, so much that he almost loses her in the second season.

Also in this little time frame, Lelouch learns something that not many people know. He learns CC’s true name. This however isn’t revealed to us and is blocked by a pretty annoying water drop. There is one question however that I would have for this scene. That is why did CC say,


“You finally called me by my name”


Was she referring to lelouch at the time or was she recalling one of her memories? If every drop of water in that episode was a time they said her name it could be possible that she just happened to blurt her name out and him go “???????!”. Yeah, just wanted to point that out.

So then again, when they are in the cave, it was the first real time they ever interacted with each other and CC says something that ill bring up. After Lelouch learns her name, she wishes for him to call her once more, in a kind and gentle way, just as her lover would. Doesn’t this mean something? I think it does. If you watch the final scene of the last episode and listen closely, don’t you think that CC is calling lelouchs name in a kind and gentle way, just as his lover would? Ntm CC is as happy as she can be giving of a little giggle. Yeah, that’s how I think it was; they both didn’t have names anymore, so CC wished to call for him. It all works out =].





The Mao arc, boy do I have a lot to say here. More than ever does this guy creep me off. He was so obsessed that he was willing to chop CC up into pieces and take it with him. Eh…so anyways, we get a little more CCxlelouch here =]. It really all started of trying to find Shirley but ends up revealing to us part of CC’s past. A past which she has regretted. She thought Moa was dead, but no…he wasn’t… We can skip all the unimportant stuff and skip to where Mao blackmails lelouch into giving up CC to him. CC nether less agrees to go to Mao, for was protecting lelouch because she knew that he couldn’t defeat Mao for the following reasons, 1 he was an intellectual fighter, this proved worthless against Mao, and 2 she couldn’t have his identity revealed to the world. Hmm, so as CC was leaving, lelouch, unable to let her go, tries to command her to stay with him. I think this shows an act of defiance; he would rather have CC with him and be ratted out than lose her. The geass as we know didn’t work on her and she leaves, however lelouch finds out that she really wanted him to rescue her for she left a recording of Mao and her conversation on his phone.

So as lelouch is trying to rescue CC he talks about CC as if shes his woman (she is of course)


“Mao, you don’t think Cc is her real name do you?”
“Huh?”
“Mao, I know her real name”
“Really CC? You didn’t even tell me, so why him?”
“you know that, its because CC is mine. CC is mine Mao”
“No!...no no no no!
“CC has always been mine alone!”
“Ive conquered all of CC including parts you’ve never so much as seen. All of her…”


All I gotta say is that Mao got owned…and lelouch showed some feeling towards CC. Later after Lelouch rescues CC and they are transported to a safe roof top location. In the following dialogue we hear promises and questions pertaining to each character, lelouch saying what he will do and CC asking what he thinks of her.


“I will change the world, I will grant both your wish and my own, I will fulfill the contract he could not…so…”
“Lelouch…are you trying to comfort me, to pity me, or to win me back?”
And lelouch being the man he is says…
“It’s a contract this time from me to you…”
“very well, I accept your contract”


We all know what he meant, he was trying to win her back…as he tried earlier to do when he tried to maker her stay by geassing her. The last time we probably see as scene between these two is in the final episode. When they activate the trap, lelouch sees even more of CC’s past, this time see her being executed multiple times in her life time. They then jump to, one of my favorite scenes in the anime.







CC all this time had thought that she was alone, that she was bound to this world. In sound episode, 11.351, Lelouch questions CC why she wears the britannian restraining suit, and that she should get new clothes. She then tells him that the restraining suit fits her because she is in shackles, she is a prisoner bound to this world. Yes, its very sad for CC, but lelouch tells her, if you want freedom win it. You can watch the sound episode if you want…






Its always good to see CC surprised I think, I guess she really didn’t know anyone cared for her anymore…then, she kisses him as she says goodbye.



It was a good kiss between these two I think, even if lelouch wasn’t ready for it. Then as he departs he shows some “couple” sarcasm to her by telling her not to die. CC answer him by saying “who do you think I am?”. Only a couple could come up with sarcasm that good.

As we got near the end of the first season, CC would be sinking in the ocean while lelouch would get captured. My thought is that she came back for lelouch even though she knew that he had lost his memories. She could have easily abandoned him like she did Mao, but chose not to. Why you ask? You should know the reason, she loved him.


C.C.: "Humans, exist to chase for happiness. A guy from Britannia. What Lelouch was looking for, was just that bit of happiness. It's not something special. The root of his actions, as a person, they are very tiny wishes which are apparent in everyone. These dreams, these words, who can renounce them? Who has that right? But, however, no matter who, no matter what the wish is, one cannot bind others and the world to themselves. Determine one's fate. If, one allows the thoughts of others, to go beyond that of the world, his existence is merely one which is drifting with the waves. Crimes and punishment. Fate and judgment. What's blocking Lelouch is, the past he created. It is hate between people. Even so, he should be thankful now. (few tears from her eyes) Yes. At least...it is a fact that humans exist to pursue happiness. All the wishes, concealing those yearnings...they are born from despair."


As she was falling into the ocean she was talking about how humans seek happiness even it is just a little bit. She says that it is born from despair. However she is talking about herself more than anyone here. She is alive because she wants to be happy, but she has never found it. Thats why, she alone has made countless contracts in hope of finding that happiness, that love. That was born from her despair.


The second season I found to be VERY similar to the first season. I liked it though. For example, in the first episode Lelouch was gambling on chess and was once again fell into danger. CC would get shot once more, fatally and grant him his geass when everyone thought she was dead. Yes, and a dramatic comeback would be made, however we really wouldn’t see a lot of Lelouch and CC time. There was A LOT of stuff that happened the second season. I think their first time together really was when they went to take the Tianzi. After fighting off military forces, Lelouch was to decide the Tianzi’s fate, a proposed marriage to a Japanese man was denied by CC. Lelouch confused by her would ask Shirley for help. I think this shows what CC really thinks of love, she knows you can force someone to love someone else, that’s pretty much why its called love, lelouch on the other hand eventually says, you can do what you want! Not really a Lelouch CC moment but you get that she knows what love should be like. Now we get to the more serious stuff with Lelouch and CC. I think CC knew that lelouch was pissed over Shirley’s death, but being his accomplice, she had to help him go and destroy the geass order. I personally think she was a bit jealous here for Lelouch basically raged war and killed people for Shirley, and not really for her. Then bam…lelouch gets sucked into the world of C. There he meets the emperor for the first time in 8 years. (VV already got his code taken) After “killing him” the emperor revives and is like, HAHAHA!....yeah bad ass I know. Lelouch then puts on a weak attempt to geass him again with him saying once again….”defeat me with the power of kings and you will surpass the power of kings!” Im gonna skip over the whole lelouch charles part about masks and save that for the next section here however during this CC does pop up again. She comes in saying that she wishes to reveal her true wish. Her wish to die. That the only way for lelouch to defeat charles was to kill her and gain immortality. Lelouch hesitates here, “kill…CC?”. And then comes a moment that you would only understand if you had watched one of the sound episodes of the first season. So no its gonna get a bit confusing so try to follow along as best you can, well this is how I saw it, CC said that the endless accumulation of not dying was experience right? So she’s really saying shes been dead all this time, she hasn’t been living on by her own power but that of the codes, but now, she can end it. She can end this experience. Since she was young, a slave girl, she had no power, no friends/accomplances, nothing. Then she had the geass “to be loved”, she never really made anyone fall truly in love with her, it was the geass, and now, when she wanted to end it, she couldn’t for the code wouldn’t let her. All her life, she has been dictated by something else. She hasn’t used her power to live on, she didn’t have the will to anymore. Lelouch on the other hand told her that “one is has life because they are alive!”, ironic because in sound ep 0.0515, the uninvited prince, a similar case happens to lelouch, but unlike CC he says that he’s alive and living by his own power, him and nunnally. Suzaku, who would be in lelouch’s shoes would ask himself, “isn’t one alive because they have life?”. I thought it was confusing, and it still is because CC uses a jumbo amount of words. But this is what I think, If you think differently then good for you. With CC in a dilemma, she sends lelouch to her memory/heart, what ever you want to call it, and he views her past, and I believe it impacts him greatly. He knows why she wants to die, and what he can do to stop her. Ntm he did get pretty emotional when CC told him her wish was to die and to kill her…”kill… CC?” no way…so anyways, her broke through the thought elevator and convince her for the final time, that she isn’t alone, that he is there for her, don’t die! Even though he doesn’t really say this you get the hint by what hes saying.








I liked it when he was like “CC you’re my…(what?)” and then he just skips to “answer me CC? Why didn’t you throw the hell known as eternal life upon me? Blah blah blah…” I don’t really like when they do that in this anime, they always leave out the important parts…like you’re my…Im your…just say it already…Anyways this could have been a way just to “test” Lelouch again, but by saying that I would be pushing that to the extreme. Maybe deep down she really wanted to be rescued and so she was. But, judging by CC character, I know that she wouldn’t force the hell known as eternal life onto lelouch because even though that would somewhat put her at ease, what would that do to lelouch? She loves him so she didn’t want to make him suffer, well she kinda did, but all is good. Yes, what would you do if the woman you loved was about to get kissed/killed by the man you hated the most? So now that CC was safe, she locked away all her memories and allowed the pre-geass CC out. From this CC we learn a lot of what she was like way back then. She must have been abused a lot and I think Lelouch knows about this, I think CC did this for 2 reasons, 1 she didn’t want to face lelouch right away after that and 2 maybe she wanted Lelouch to feel sympathy for her? I know I did. And then comes Marianne out of no where…yeah. It really was good to get CC back after a few episodes but they were a real killer. I wanted a CC scene so bad within those like 5 episodes. But, CC was deep in thought when Marianne asked her “why didn’t you give charles your code?”, she answered “I don’t know…”, all I gotta say, you do know, you are human even though you say youre not. And then comes r2 ep 21 again. With Charles and Marianne disappearing, they realize CC isn’t disappearing. “Why isn’t CC disappearing, she agreed to this too didn’t she?” however CC says her self that she realized that they were being selifish blah blah blah. You all know why she didn’t disappear, it was because she didn’t need to look to the past anymore. He had a glimmer of hope in her future, that was Lelouch. And now fast forwarding to the end of the anime. In the final episode CC was seen crying in the Ashford Academy Church. She could have left because there was no need to stay any longer, but you know what? She and lelouch left together, thats why shes riding the carriage and he is driving it.



So anyways, people say that shes crying because omg lelouch is going to die. And id say, yep youre right! He is going to die! But not really die.

“Lelouch as the price for casting geass upon others you…*teardrop*”
“only those willing to shoot should be shot at”

Yeah, it could be true that CC is crying for lelouch because he is going to die. But as I see it she is crying because by dying, he himself will take on the same life as her, to live on forever. He would be stripped of his name, his friends, everything. He would lose all dreams hopes for the future. Do you really think CC wants all of that to happen to him? No way, it was a tear for she knew what the outcome was…but by doing this, he would fulfill everything he has said. Back to episode 15 when they talk on the rooftop (safe spot),


“I will change the world, I will grant both your wish and my own…”
And so he did, but by doing so, he did just as suzaku/lelouch said (in r2 ep 21)
“To desire a result, one must take action, the method one chooses will lead to the denial of other things.”


And so the life, the existence of Lelouch Lamperouge/Lelouch vi Britannia was denied in this case. But in the end, you see that CC is happy. How can she possibly be happy if the one man she loved died? Thanks to Cecil Guineva, idk how spell her name, speading those rumors of geass mobile website, which I could never find saying that “now that she knows lelouch does not hate her, she can live on, blah blah blah…” Wouldn’t it only make her more lonely? You can’t possibly not be alone when you ARE alone, that just kills the argument. Besides, lelouch has told her plenty of times that he does not hate her, it is because of her that he was able to take his first steps, he was dead until he met her, and that if she was a witch, he would become a warlock. So just to say, if a witch has a code, how do you become a warlock? Easy take a code. Witch and warlock forever.

Now were gonna go back to the beginning all over again, yay =]
Now this time from lelouch’s point of view. In the beginning he created the black knights for the sole purpose of creating a better world for nunnally to live in. Basically nunnally was his only motivation at the time. When lelouch agreed to walk the path of carnage he wasn’t quite ready for what it meant. He said he was but it did show that he wasn’t. After shirleys father died, he had a mental breakdown, and thanks to CC was able to recover from it. All the way up till ep 21 he has used nunally as his excuse for wanting to change to world, until suzaku makes him realize that its just not for nunally but he is to change it for the things he wants to protect. That its self is the world and its people. Yes, what were the black knights created for? To protect the weak. In r2 ep 24 you can see a great change in Lelouch’s character





Near the end of this, CC says that she wants to end this experience, she doesnt still mean she wants to die...only a fool would think that. She is refering to this next movie. She is sick of the war and wants it to end.






Its pretty much the same thing but we get just a little, interaction between these two, CC puts her hand on lelouchs. Lelouch now realizing that changing the world for one person is was wrong, decides that nunally cannot be treated special anymore...


So as you can see, Lelouch said that if it was to complete the Zero Requiem, then so be it, one person cannot stand in the way of tomorrow even if it is Nunnally. And then, the final CC Lelouch moment in the anime, yes it was almost going to happen but then *bam…* Kallen had to ruin it…ntm CC is a ninja for being able to get to her knightmare that fast. He then proceeds to carry out his plan by capturing Damocles. Lelouch never originally intended to use his geass on Nunnally but, after hearing her reasoning for firing all the FLEIAs, “to use Damocoles” as a symbol of hate he was able to. This leads to the final chapter of Lelouch Lamperouge.
Before we see Lelouch get stabbed, we see a little flash back with him and Suzaku talking. Lelouch mentioned how geass are like wishes.









When he said, “I will gamble on the geass known as peoples wishes.” A few things when threw my head. Yes this will be confusing to and you can choose to believe or not believe what I say. This like CC’s statement a while back jumbos words around. Okay so Geass = wishes= assistance to complete something, and then if gods are the peoples wills are they also peoples wishes as well? The people wanted the world to keep moving forward so I think it would count as their wish. So if you put those to together, hes really saying, “I will gamble on the assistance known as god” Yeah, that’s what I got from it. And we all know that god is the code, or the will of the people. So, he’s really saying a double statement here. Hes saying I will gamble that all the people believe in the future and that I have a code…lol. So to the moment lelouch gets stabbed, he tells suzaku that he will live on forever as Zero and that this is his punishment. Very ironic because this is also a punishment for lelouch as well, he just like suzaku will also live forever but in a different way.


“you will be the defender of justice, and were a mask forever…you will no longer be able to live on as Kururugi Suzaku…you will sacrifice you happiness for the world eternally…”
“I accept that geass”


What geass is he talking about? Geass is a wish as I said before right? So he is accepting his wish for him to live on, and also, ironically the one he gave him…”live on” haha….

Suzaku will live on as Zero, whose legend will be remembered forever, however unlike him, Lelouch will physically live on forever. He wasn’t going to get away easily by dying. You know as people say, dying is the easy way out. He will have to live the eternal hell just like CC did, but not alone for he has CC. Good way of explaining why she so happy in the end eh? Its not like lelouch can drive that wagon with his face exposed, people would recognize him as the evil emperor of Britannia. So he has to cover as you see it. Uh huh, that’s the way it has to be for a while until no one can remember, then he can come out, just as CC and VV did. Oh yeah, the reason why you ask that suzaku is crying, well the answer is because he doesn’t know if lelouch will truly survive or die. He could’ve killed his best friend. It was a gamble as Lelouch said.








Now to define Zero Requiem while Im at this part. For me defining it was hard because I knew what the plan was but I just couldn’t find a good definition for Requiem. Okay, so the title of the final episodes is just Re;. That’s different from every other episode. So since its just Re; why not just put it into Requiem? It only makes sense. Re; by itself means to do something again, and the semi colon just splits up to causes. The actual title of the last episode is “again…” and the most obvious event in that episode is zero rising as a hero, again… So when you put it all together you get Zero Re;quiem, which is the way I see it written most times anyways. It wouldn’t be written Zero ReRequiem…This way, it would mean Zero ; peace again. Which to me, means that Zero brings piece again. See, the parade is set exactly one year from when Zero first appeared. He pretty much brought peace to the Japanese people that first time, but this time, he brought peace for the world. Yes, it’s a good definition. Now that were near the end, I just wanna circle back around to why lelouch didn’t die and why volume 42 is right and wrong in some sence. Back in ep 15, when the emperor confronted lelouch about the world being just one human, he talks about “mask” people wear to deceive other people and how it was wrong. He claimed that these masks where dangerous and he sought to destroy them. The mask zero, was a mask that lelouch put on to fight the Britannian empire and to gain support from. This mask he eventually passed on to suzaku. And then he had his own mask, the mask of Lelouch Lamperouge. I know this might be tough for you guys but bear with me. Lelouch was just a name, and identity, it was a mask. In the final episode all that happened was that this mask was destroyed. Lelouch only had 2 mask in this anime, lelouch and Zero. With Zero now as suzaku, and the existence of Lelouch erased, he can live on as someone else, RR. It makes perfect sense. In new volume 42 or Continue, w/e suzaku should have been listed as dead also. But now, to screw with our minds they left him alive…

Now for the pretty much last thing I want to talk about. Its about that crane on the back of the carriage in the final seconds of the last episode. Everyone says that CC is carrying it as a memoir of lelouch but, lelouch is NOT a crane. He is a king, and more specifically the Black king. Nunnally however is the crane, the pink one. Nunally first was seen making cranes in episode 3 with Sayako. Then we see repeatedly over both seasons having nunnally represented by a crane. In the second opening of the second season, in her lap before the first FLEIA blew up. With lelouch in r2 ep 6. You see it a lot. As for lelouch, you also see the black king piece a lot as well. In the intros…he sometimes carries it with him, he is also nicknamed the black king…yeah. If lelouch was truly the carriage driver he would have kept it close to him, ntm is a safe spot. No one carries their belongings next to them when you drive a carriage so the most convient place is behind him on the hay stack. This would serve him as a memoir of his past life, and of what he lost, his sister nunally. But he is able to move on because, CC is with him.

Just a side note here, i know i forgot some stuff so ill just put it here...Jeremiah let suzaku kill Lelouch and was fine with it because, he did not die. His purpose in life was to serve the royal family. After Mariannes death, he has been traumatized by the thought of his failure. Surely he wouldnt let that happen again.

Nunnally cannot see peoples hearts...that would make her godlike. SHe only can sense things because of her blindness of 8 years. During this time all her other senses have been increased.

Just some other stuff I wanted to say.
In the anime there is a lot of contriditions, hypocracy, double meanings, you name, it, but its really just up to you to find it. As we you read this right now, Im still probably thinking of the other stuff I could have put in here that I didn’t. Its really hard to explain everything clearly because of one big reason. When you get all your reasons together, they fit in a lot of different places making you repeat yourself, and forget other things. Ill probably update this every now and then once I find out what Ive forgotten.

So…thanks for taking the time to read this, hmm, and sorry I didn’t have that many pics and stuff. Yes, and one final thing.

If you have any questions concerns feel free to ask me, comment message me, w/e


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#2
11-29-08, 9:29 AM

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Uhm very well explain i think (:
That is what i feel when I first read it (:

So i'll read it another 2 or 3 more times
then i'll be commenting again if i don't
understand some parts or if i have another
ideas in that particular part (:

[url=http://myanimelist.net/animelist/_Haru&sclick=1]
 
#3
11-29-08, 10:04 AM

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hmm ok .... don't know what to think, first of all I didn't join this club because I like cluclu,in fact I'm an all out Kalulu fan for all eternity. So I'm not going to comment about all the C.C and lulu parts.

About the requim stuff etc. just skimmed the text and I can see what you did there and it makes some sence(a little), but to be honnest, after reading stuff like this over and over again I'm a little bit tired of it, only thing I want now is an announcment from sunrise that there is going to be a movie or something like that.

But hey credits for the wall of text ^_^
Modified by reaper_unique, 11-29-08, 10:08 AM
 
#4
11-29-08, 11:21 AM

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Great logic, I like your way of thinking. And I have only one question "How long did it take you to write all that ?". I think hours at least ... :s
 
#5
11-29-08, 11:21 AM

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but you got to admit, the CCXlelouch only makes it more possible hes alive. On the other hand if it was Kalulu, then i think hed be dead...soz but thats the way the cookie crumbles...
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#6
11-29-08, 11:23 AM

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MALYGOS said:
Great logic, I like your way of thinking. And I have only one question "How long did it take you to write all that ?". I think hours at least ... :s


It took about 10 straight hours lol...then my mom turned off my computer...then i had to rewrite some stuff again...

haha so lets just say, a long time.

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#7
11-29-08, 6:07 PM

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What a genius! You actually spent a lot of time on this. Currently, I don't have time to read all of it, but I will read it when I have time. It should take more than 1.5 hours..
 
#8
11-29-08, 9:17 PM

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Great evidence, I always try to explain the whole "R.R/L.L." concept to ppl on youtube but they never get it, and I think you should spread the word around because there are many ppl who are pretty much giving up hope on Lulu being alive due to Okouchi's statement. And for the LuluxC.C. part, I would also like to point out that in almost every Code Geass merchendice you see, it always has LuluxC.C. in all of them and they are the most popular couple among fans. Well anyways, thanks for the evidence, I honestly wish that more people would actually think about the true meaning of Code Geass instead of relying on what they see and relying on Okouchi's words. Sadly, there are many fans who gave up all hope because of Okouchi's words but hopefully all the evidence that was gathered here can give them hope once again.
 
#9
11-30-08, 7:55 PM

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Yeah, but i think i should also update it everyone and then because there were alot of things i forgot. And as i go on with my "normal" life people confront me with lelouchkilling theories that i always shoot down.

As for getting users to read it, im trying

thanks for the comment xD
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12-01-08, 8:57 AM

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Wow, your level of understanding of the series and the bond between C.C. and Lulu way surpasses mine XD

A nice job overall, providing images and videos to reference you evidences was a nice touch.

I don't know if Taniguchi will laugh at us in case we are overanalyzing, but I found an interesting theory on one of the Japanese blogs pointing out that the CLAMP art in the second ED theme -with Lulu's neck wraped with a red ribbon- might actually be an early hint that he will eventually get the code.

People can mock our conviction as much as they want, but the crane evidence, combined with Lulu's geass reaching Mao's level just before his father strangles him with the hand imprinted with the code, followed by the disappearance of the code from his right eye in the next scene were all too much of a coincedence. There's also the fact how Sunrise didn't mark Lulu as dead in the correlation chart while they updated Diethard's status, which provides us with hope that he might've been actually revived with the code.
Kihel:"from Dianna Soreil to Dianna Soreil."
Dianna: "from Kihel Heim to Kihel Heim."
 
12-01-08, 11:24 AM

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Haha, i did forget something important after all...the correlation chart. Oops.

Hmm...ill update this soon i guess. But yeah, agreed with your point. It makes absolutely no sense for the writer to say lelouch is dead, and then have the official site mark him as alive. And them people who were thought to be dead, like nunally were marked, alive, and the people who actually died, like diethard were marked as dead. He is alive and we know it. Especially in the ending sequence, it makes no sense, to skip straight to the crane after CC says, "nah lelouch" for nothing and then start playing the normal ending music. First time i watched it i was like whoa...what happened? Yes, you got geass rolled lol...trolled. He didnt die, they just made it look like he did.


And you ever see that show " The Mole" ? Well in that show, you had to find hints and stuff about who the mole was. In one season there were clues in the opening. That could be the case here. I should look into it.
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12-01-08, 1:59 PM

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Remember to mark the UPDATED or ADDED items with some BIG COLOURED TAGS :)
Just so we can see what and where, without need to [re;]read it. <---- Its everywhere!!!
I shall know no fear as I am fear incarnated
 
12-02-08, 2:44 AM

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All the evidence in one place. Thank you for spending all that time to type this up. Good job. Your hard work is appreciated. :)
 
12-02-08, 8:20 AM

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One of the biggest debates that the Lulu-is-dead camp is presenting against us is how Lulu had managed to keep his geass if he had indeed inherited Charles' code.

The speculation that we have presented so far is that Charles had challenged Lelouch into surpassing the power of king before he had attacked him, and that could be entailing that Lelouch had surpassed it by managing to keep his geass after he had inherited the code (This one can be debunked by presenting the C.C. example; how she had lost her geass after inheriting the nun's code)

The second speculation that I came up with today is that the series didn't go into detail regarding when exactly is the geass lost in the process -is it immediately after inheriting the code, or does it reqire that the code is activated first for the geass to be dispelled? (This one also lacks concrete evidence, but still, there's nothing in the series that disproves it)

Correct me if I'm wrong or had missed something regarding the code inheritence, but if there are no errors in my arguement, well, here's something to think about :)
Modified by Hayatempest, 12-02-08, 8:24 AM
Kihel:"from Dianna Soreil to Dianna Soreil."
Dianna: "from Kihel Heim to Kihel Heim."
 
12-02-08, 9:51 AM

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Raven_Shinobi said:
One of the biggest debates that the Lulu-is-dead camp is presenting against us is how Lulu had managed to keep his geass if he had indeed inherited Charles' code.

The speculation that we have presented so far is that Charles had challenged Lelouch into surpassing the power of king before he had attacked him, and that could be entailing that Lelouch had surpassed it by managing to keep his geass after he had inherited the code (This one can be debunked by presenting the C.C. example; how she had lost her geass after inheriting the nun's code)

The second speculation that I came up with today is that the series didn't go into detail regarding when exactly is the geass lost in the process -is it immediately after inheriting the code, or does it reqire that the code is activated first for the geass to be dispelled? (This one also lacks concrete evidence, but still, there's nothing in the series that disproves it)

Correct me if I'm wrong or had missed something regarding the code inheritence, but if there are no errors in my arguement, well, here's something to think about :)


Well that's simple, the series mentioned that the one who has geass would have to kill the one who gave them the code in order for them to loose geass and gain immortality (which in Lulu's case he would have to kill C.C.). However, the Code transfer is completely different and it's not unlikely that Charles passed his Code because in that same episode he mentioned that he sent Lulu and Nunnaly away to protect them (then it showed a flashback with C.C. telling Lulu to stay away from those he cares about the most in order to protect them) so that shows that he cares about Lulu more than he cares about any of his other children and let's not forget that he was completely opposed to Schniezel's world along with his views so that could be plenty of reason for him to intentionally give the code to Lelouch and the process of it is mentioned in Zongetsu's statement. Well anyways, to answer your question, the reason why Lelouch was able to keep geass while having the code is because he didn't kill the one who gave him the code.
 
12-02-08, 9:52 AM

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Lelouch101 said:
Raven_Shinobi said:
One of the biggest debates that the Lulu-is-dead camp is presenting against us is how Lulu had managed to keep his geass if he had indeed inherited Charles' code.

The speculation that we have presented so far is that Charles had challenged Lelouch into surpassing the power of king before he had attacked him, and that could be entailing that Lelouch had surpassed it by managing to keep his geass after he had inherited the code (This one can be debunked by presenting the C.C. example; how she had lost her geass after inheriting the nun's code)

The second speculation that I came up with today is that the series didn't go into detail regarding when exactly is the geass lost in the process -is it immediately after inheriting the code, or does it reqire that the code is activated first for the geass to be dispelled? (This one also lacks concrete evidence, but still, there's nothing in the series that disproves it)

Correct me if I'm wrong or had missed something regarding the code inheritence, but if there are no errors in my arguement, well, here's something to think about :)


Well that's simple, the series mentioned that the one who has geass would have to kill the one who gave them the code in order for them to loose geass and gain immortality (which in Lulu's case he would have to kill C.C.). However, the Code transfer is completely different and it's not unlikely that Charles passed his Code because in that same episode he mentioned that he sent Lulu and Nunnaly away to protect them (then it showed a flashback with C.C. telling Lulu to stay away from those he cares about the most in order to protect them) so that shows that he cares about Lulu more than he cares about any of his other children and let's not forget that he was completely opposed to Schniezel's world along with his views so that could be plenty of reason for him to intentionally give the code to Lelouch and the process of it is mentioned in Zongetsu's statement. Well anyways, to answer your question, the reason why Lelouch was able to keep geass while having the code is because he didn't kill the one who gave him the code.


My bad, I ment the geass in that last word >.>
 
12-02-08, 3:39 PM

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Lelouch101 said:
Lelouch101 said:
Raven_Shinobi said:
One of the biggest debates that the Lulu-is-dead camp is presenting against us is how Lulu had managed to keep his geass if he had indeed inherited Charles' code.

The speculation that we have presented so far is that Charles had challenged Lelouch into surpassing the power of king before he had attacked him, and that could be entailing that Lelouch had surpassed it by managing to keep his geass after he had inherited the code (This one can be debunked by presenting the C.C. example; how she had lost her geass after inheriting the nun's code)

The second speculation that I came up with today is that the series didn't go into detail regarding when exactly is the geass lost in the process -is it immediately after inheriting the code, or does it reqire that the code is activated first for the geass to be dispelled? (This one also lacks concrete evidence, but still, there's nothing in the series that disproves it)

Correct me if I'm wrong or had missed something regarding the code inheritence, but if there are no errors in my arguement, well, here's something to think about :)


Well that's simple, the series mentioned that the one who has geass would have to kill the one who gave them the code in order for them to loose geass and gain immortality (which in Lulu's case he would have to kill C.C.). However, the Code transfer is completely different and it's not unlikely that Charles passed his Code because in that same episode he mentioned that he sent Lulu and Nunnaly away to protect them (then it showed a flashback with C.C. telling Lulu to stay away from those he cares about the most in order to protect them) so that shows that he cares about Lulu more than he cares about any of his other children and let's not forget that he was completely opposed to Schniezel's world along with his views so that could be plenty of reason for him to intentionally give the code to Lelouch and the process of it is mentioned in Zongetsu's statement. Well anyways, to answer your question, the reason why Lelouch was able to keep geass while having the code is because he didn't kill the one who gave him the code.


My bad, I ment the geass in that last word >.>



Well, i did say that he couldve intentionally given him the code, but im more sided with the lelouch took it idea. The reason is because even though he claimed to care for lelouch, he ended up "choking" him. Isnt that a sign of hate? Then lelouch "killed' him by saying "BEGONE!". Lelouch "killed" him.

CCs own words...
"What lies at the end of geass for its users is to succeed the position of the own who bestowed power on them, in other words one would gain the power to kill me..."

well, thats only what CC knows, its not like shes a genius. And then as i said earlier, if Charles can take CCs code, why cant lelouch take charles? If you wanna cross stuff like that it has to work the other way around. As for some one containing a code and geass at the same time i believe possible. You lose your geass once you take your "bestower" of powers code and die. However, if you get geass granted and take someone elses code and die, your geass would still be in tact for your first contract has not yet ended.

yeah...gtg to work now =/

I think it works better this way because
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12-02-08, 4:01 PM

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zongetsu said:
Lelouch101 said:
Lelouch101 said:
Raven_Shinobi said:
One of the biggest debates that the Lulu-is-dead camp is presenting against us is how Lulu had managed to keep his geass if he had indeed inherited Charles' code.

The speculation that we have presented so far is that Charles had challenged Lelouch into surpassing the power of king before he had attacked him, and that could be entailing that Lelouch had surpassed it by managing to keep his geass after he had inherited the code (This one can be debunked by presenting the C.C. example; how she had lost her geass after inheriting the nun's code)

The second speculation that I came up with today is that the series didn't go into detail regarding when exactly is the geass lost in the process -is it immediately after inheriting the code, or does it reqire that the code is activated first for the geass to be dispelled? (This one also lacks concrete evidence, but still, there's nothing in the series that disproves it)

Correct me if I'm wrong or had missed something regarding the code inheritence, but if there are no errors in my arguement, well, here's something to think about :)


Well that's simple, the series mentioned that the one who has geass would have to kill the one who gave them the code in order for them to loose geass and gain immortality (which in Lulu's case he would have to kill C.C.). However, the Code transfer is completely different and it's not unlikely that Charles passed his Code because in that same episode he mentioned that he sent Lulu and Nunnaly away to protect them (then it showed a flashback with C.C. telling Lulu to stay away from those he cares about the most in order to protect them) so that shows that he cares about Lulu more than he cares about any of his other children and let's not forget that he was completely opposed to Schniezel's world along with his views so that could be plenty of reason for him to intentionally give the code to Lelouch and the process of it is mentioned in Zongetsu's statement. Well anyways, to answer your question, the reason why Lelouch was able to keep geass while having the code is because he didn't kill the one who gave him the code.


My bad, I ment the geass in that last word >.>



Well, i did say that he couldve intentionally given him the code, but im more sided with the lelouch took it idea. The reason is because even though he claimed to care for lelouch, he ended up "choking" him. Isnt that a sign of hate? Then lelouch "killed' him by saying "BEGONE!". Lelouch "killed" him.

CCs own words...
"What lies at the end of geass for its users is to succeed the position of the own who bestowed power on them, in other words one would gain the power to kill me..."

well, thats only what CC knows, its not like shes a genius. And then as i said earlier, if Charles can take CCs code, why cant lelouch take charles? If you wanna cross stuff like that it has to work the other way around. As for some one containing a code and geass at the same time i believe possible. You lose your geass once you take your "bestower" of powers code and die. However, if you get geass granted and take someone elses code and die, your geass would still be in tact for your first contract has not yet ended.

yeah...gtg to work now =/

I think it works better this way because


Well you could be right about Lulu stealing the code but as for the choking part, I Would say it could also be because he was pissed yet somewhat scared that Schniezel's dream might become a reality instead of his and Lulu ruined his plan and another arguement that Lulu alive ppl are giving is that Charles was intentionally planning to give Lulu the code because Lulu said "Don't interfere Suzaku" when Charles chocked him so in my opinion Lulu could have either gained Charles' code either way but still I think deep inside, Charles would have preferred Lelouch's "World of tomorrow" than Schniezel's world.
 
12-03-08, 12:35 AM

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Well, indeed... Good arguments there.
Even C.C. understood that it was wrong to force past on people, so maybe Charles had some dignity in him too? We dont know much about his character and such.

But I would put my dibs on Charles forcing the code on Lelouch without Lelouch really knowing it. What Lelouch was obsessed with is to kill him with power of the kings, it was a challenge his father put in front of him several times. Probably NOT without a reason to do so.

We might even agree on the part that all tree of them wished for a peaceful world, they just took different path to complete that dream.
I shall know no fear as I am fear incarnated
 
12-10-08, 6:29 PM

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I guess ill put this here too

So, just to say, i was surfing the web and i came across a picture that ive seen before but i perceived it much different this time. For some reason, after hearings CC say

"Its beffiting. I dont have freedom, im chained, shackled...
which is why this suit fits me so well, CC is a prisoner of the world.



big picture, i know, but i just wanted to get my point across. Okay, so in this official illustration, isnt lelouch in a restraining suit, being restrained by chains and shackles? Does it mean that he too has become a prisoner of this world? That would mean he is immortal.

As for suzaku, he is in cloth like chains for he isnt a prisoner to the world. He wont physically live to eternalty, but his legend will, that of zero. He can escape in death, that is how he can break the weak restraint he is in. Cloth can break easily, chains cant...

Ntm, that they are "at the end of the darkness", notice the dark space they are in. Yes thats all i wanted to say.
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12-10-08, 11:58 PM

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Nice pic. I hope that it will turn out that they had drawn it with the conclusion that you had come to in mind :)

As for Lulu being restrained by chains and shackles, I remember that there was a somewhat similar art by CLAMP in the ending song with Lelouch being in chains with him being dressed in the warlock clothes. I like to call it warlock clothes since in the JP DVD boxart, Lelouch was shown wearing the same clothes with him carrying what looks to be a magic staff.

I noticed that while Lulu being chained in that picture, C.C. who was embracing him -and appearing to be consoling him- was shown to be freed from those chains, with angelic wings sprouting from her arms. I think it indicated that Lelouch had become the immortal warlock while C.C. has been freed from thinking of her immortality as a curse, now that Lelouch had kept his promise to her and will soothe her lonliness in her eternal life.

Well, that's how I looked at it anyway.
Modified by Hayatempest, 12-11-08, 7:42 AM
Kihel:"from Dianna Soreil to Dianna Soreil."
Dianna: "from Kihel Heim to Kihel Heim."
 
12-11-08, 7:19 PM

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Yes, that must be it
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12-11-08, 9:23 PM

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Well here are some small details that might add on to the arguement. Some of this information may have been implied in the statements but I just wanted to add some quotes and more of my thoughts to strengthen our arguement. Well, in the flashback scene where Lulu talks to Suzaku (before he gets stabbed) he said "Destroy the enemy of the world, Lelouch vi Brittania." So that further proves that Lelouch vi Brittania died but Lelouch is no longer Lelouch vi Brittania as the statements mentioned. I have a few things to say about C.C.'s final statement, in the beginning of the series she mentioned that "the power of the kings will condemn you to a life of isolation" and depending on which subbed version you saw in the last episode she says "Geass brings loneliness to people but I guess that's inaccurate right Lelouch? and the second version she says "Geass brings one loneliness, but I guess that's wrong, right Lelouch?" Well as I mentioned before, in the first episode C.C. mentioned the power of kings would bring Lelouch loneliness not the entire world. Some Lulu dead ppl think that her final quote means that Lelouch is no longer alone because he's reunited with all his friends who have died but if you were to put it that way, then all the geass users who died would share the same his fate, but does this mean that they overcame overcome the curse of geass too? Not at all. If you notice the deaths of all the geass users (excluding Bismark and the people in the geass dictorate) all of them had someone at their side when they died just like Lelouch did so if Lelouch truly overcame the power of loneliness it must mean that his fate is different from the other geass users who have died which we all know that it is because he's living with C.C. now. Another arguement that the Lelouch dead camp keeps presenting us is that if Lulu is alive it lessens the impact of the honorable sacrifice he made. I believe this is mentioned but I just want to say that dying isn't the only way to repent for your sins, in fact dying would be an easy way out. If Lelouch truly wants to repent for his sins he would live on and serve the world in his own way, which he is doing. This is all I can think of for now and I will let you all know if I find more evidence to strengthen our arguement along with finding counter-arguements to the Lulu is dead camp.
 
12-14-08, 11:21 AM

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There are no counter-arguments to the "dead" camp, because the "dead" camp does not use arguments.

Like I said in CG club, ATM talks look like this:

A: Lulu is Alive.
D: Not true, he is dead
A: No, he's alive - facts A, B and C taken from Anime clearly point to that.
D: Not true, Okouchi said in interview that Lelouch is dead, so he's dead.
A: Yes, but then there are also facts D, E and F, which also prove that Lelouch
is Alive, because otherwise it would make no sense.
D: BS. Okouchi said in his interview Lelouch is dead, and site lists him as dead, so
he's dead.
A: But the interview itself is vague, and fact G shows that we can't entirely
depend on their site.
D: ... Okouchi said in his interview that Lelouch is dead, so he's dead.

You call that a discussion? Their answer to every single argument is "Okouchi said so", and even if you slam the proof in their faces, they'll just ignore it, and keep saying "We're right, Okouchi said he's dead, so he's dead." That's not discussion, that's being stubborn and narrow-minded. And there is no cure for that, at least not in the short run.



-=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=-
 
12-14-08, 11:42 AM

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Maurox said:
There are no counter-arguments to the "dead" camp, because the "dead" camp does not use arguments.

Like I said in CG club, ATM talks look like this:

A: Lulu is Alive.
D: Not true, he is dead
A: No, he's alive - facts A, B and C taken from Anime clearly point to that.
D: Not true, Okouchi said in interview that Lelouch is dead, so he's dead.
A: Yes, but then there are also facts D, E and F, which also prove that Lelouch
is Alive, because otherwise it would make no sense.
D: BS. Okouchi said in his interview Lelouch is dead, and site lists him as dead, so
he's dead.
A: But the interview itself is vague, and fact G shows that we can't entirely
depend on their site.
D: ... Okouchi said in his interview that Lelouch is dead, so he's dead.

You call that a discussion? Their answer to every single argument is "Okouchi said so", and even if you slam the proof in their faces, they'll just ignore it, and keep saying "We're right, Okouchi said he's dead, so he's dead." That's not discussion, that's being stubborn and narrow-minded. And there is no cure for that, at least not in the short run.


That's true >.> But I must say that the Lulu dead camp on MAL is a disgrace to the Lulu dead camp because all they do is ignore us like children. I have argued with people on youtube and people on animeblogger about the whole Lulu being alive thing. The Lulu dead camp on animeblogger actually paid attention to my statements and they did try to counter it (by using Okouchi's words as usual and then in the end I won)

As for the Lulu dead camp on youtube, they are just plain stupid, they can't even comprehend the whole Lelouch is no longer Lelouch vi Brittania situation. I try to explain it over and over again but they just can't comprehend it. It's not because of their stubborness or anything like that, it's because they aren't really the type to think deeply about things -_-

As I mentioned before, the Lulu dead camp on MAL is byfar the worst group that I have ever encountered, they aren't even willing to try to see our views and they are too lazy to even read the clear evidence we provide. I don't mean to be negative but there is no way we are going to convince them if they are willing to be this stubborn, lazy, and close minded about the whole situation. It's like arguing with little kids.

As you mentioned before, the Lulu dead group consists of KallenxLulu supporters, ShirleyxLulu suppporters (although they don't argue as much as the KallenxLulu supporters), and the Lulu haters. A common arguement that they bring out is that we are being bias because most of us are LuluxC.C. supporters but I disagree. If you rewatch the entire series, you will notice that the relationship between Lulu and C.C. is what developed throught the series, and nobody can deny that. Of course Lulu did gain a stronger friendship with Kallen during the R2 season but in the end she realized how little she knew about Lulu. But I wouldn't call their relationship "love" because Kallen betrayed him too easily and not to mention there wasn't really any relationship between them until R2.

My point is that Lulu's relationship with C.C. is what developed throught the entire series (unlike his relationship with Kallen and Shirley) so therefore it's not a stretch to conclude that Lulu loves C.C. and this fact is supported by the entire series, so therefore the Lulu dead camp has no right to say that we are just bias LuluxC.C. shippers.
 
12-14-08, 12:51 PM

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About Kalulu/Clulu bias:

Those are completely different matters, at least to me. Though for Kalulu fans it IS problematic.

You see, even if Lelouch-Dono was dead, it wouldn't hurt the ShiLulu pairing. I am putting aside arguments of this club right now - Even if it was like they say - that CC is talking with Lelouch through her power to speak with the dead - it could theoretically be interpreted as partially happy end for her, since she has contact with someone she loved, and who loved her, so that might help explaining her smile. So that wouldn't hurt ShiLulu pairing at all.

What about KaLulu? KaLulu has no reason to exist if Lelouch is alive - because that would mean he chose CC whom he "did not love" over Karen whom he "did love" - so they can't accept that kind of ending.

For me that is a whole different matter. Even if I did not have proof that Lelouch-Dono is alive, I would still say that the KaLulu pairing is completely out of question, and that it had no reason to exist.
And those who say that we're ganging up on Karen because we like CC more - I swear to goddess I could find at least 3 anime in which I did not like the choice main character made in terms of romance, but I accepted it as "canon". Even Clannad - Despite the fact that I do not like Nagisa, You can't see me running around spouting some theories how "What happened was a lie, His reasons are definitely not love, and the real person Okazaki loves is Tomoyo"... Or some other strange theories that suit my pairing.

And I know it's useless to make a rant about this here, but excuse me. Those guys are just pissing me off, not able to comprehend a few simple facts that were almost slammed in their faces. God, why are there so many stupid people on this earth, WHYYYY?!?!



-=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=-
 
12-14-08, 3:42 PM

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That would be true if C.C. could talk to the dead, which she can't as it was stated in Zongetsu's statement. She was able to talk to Marianne due to her geass power and Charles was able to talk to the dead Clovis because he was in the Sword of Akasha.

Besides, if C.C. had the ability to talk to the dead she wouldn't have been lonely in the first place because she could communicate with all the other people who made contracts with her. So, that would basically contradict the reason she wanted to die in the first place.

Besides, if you ask me, I think the statement that the Lulu dead ppl once gave about C.C. talking to the dead is a total stretch, it's as far fetched as Okouchi's statement about Nunnaly seeing through people's hearts. Also, if they still say that it would mean that they are going against Okouchi's words because Okouchi mentioned in one of the official sites that C.C.'s memory with Lelouch is what saved her or something like that.

However, that statement makes even less sence than the claim of C.C. talking to the dead, but I won't elaborate too deeply on that because most of it is explained in Zongetsu's statement.
 
12-24-08, 1:32 AM

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Lelouch is alive because he didn't fulfil any CC's wish. But now he has eternity for it.
And i don't think she will leave him alone with it. =P
 
01-04-09, 12:54 PM

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(replying to post #14) I think that if you go along with the name idea that Lulou was the first person to reach the state known as Code-Geass (hence the name of the show itself) He wont lose his geass because he is powerful enough to keep it from going into submission. Also C.C.'s wish was fullfilled because as we already know from Lulou's first encounter with Charles her wish had changed to being loved. Lulou genuinely loves C.C. and she feels the same. ALSO WE ALL KNOW THAT THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE THE CODE WORK IS TO BE KILLED. (Possibly dying from old age would do it too...)

Also, Lulou was not on the dead list... what happened to his body?

And only Marrianne could talk to c.c. because she had the heart transfer geass. which only means that the cart guy is lulou. If that clarifies things then im satisfied.

By the way, Kallen did love lelouch but he did not feel the same way so give up on the "Kallen should be with Lulou" BS. It didnt happen and it wont happen.
If they meet again, C.C. will rip her apart. (YAY!)
Im not saying I din't like Kallen, but C.C. is my favorite and there are several facts that show it wouldn't have happened.
Like in one of the R2 episodes when he is about to use refrain and Kallen stops him. WHY THE HELL DOES SHE CHICKEN OUT IF SHE IS IN LOVE WITH HIM!?!?!?!?!

End of point...
Modified by The_Black_King, 01-04-09, 1:46 PM
 
01-05-09, 1:05 AM

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Black king:

I will repeat this again. Karen DID NOT love Lelouch-Dono.

She admired him, yes. She saw him as a charismatic leader, able to make Japan free, yes. But that wasn't love.
Perhaps she thought it was love. Maybe she simply mistaken her feelings for love.

Look at it this way:
When Karen were given a choice - Loyalty to Japan or following Lelouch - She chose Japan. And don't give me that "OH poor Karen, she was simply decieved by Lelouch, it's all his fault" crap. The very fact that she couldn't tell he was bluffing in the hangar proves that she didn't know him at all. Even after HE ALMOST EFFIN SPELLED IT OUT TO HER. I mean she's dumb as hell - What should Lelouch say for her to understand he's only bluffing? "I'm sorry Karen, but I lied just now, so that I can sacrifice myself for your sake".

Next, alot of Kalulu fans use the argument "She did not go to find him because she was confused" - Well THAT'S THE FRIGGIN REASON TO FIND HIM! She doesn't know what he meant - FIND HIM. ASK HIM. Instead she decides to play the "He-said-he-used-me-so-I-don't-Care" card. If you were in love with someone, would You act like this?

The refrain episode, Aaah yes.
Again. Whom she addressed was not Lelouch. The person she addressed was Zero. I mean - She could get out of that situation using two methods. One was "It's alright, I know you're suffering, but please, be strong." - She used the other one "Stop frickin' joking! You've got responsibilities, You can't just leave everything!", which I like to call "Slap back into reality".
Then once again - She never considered leaving with him. She never considered the "If you are suffering that much, let's leave everything and live together away from here" way. And even then, instead of... I don't know... Pushing him back with something along the lines of "I'm happy that you seek comfort from me, but it won't work this way" She slaps him, and says "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS MESS!" - Effect is probably the same, but this just proves she never thought romantically about him.

And I don't think I need to talk about Lelouch's side in that so-called "romance". He saw her merely as a friend - and not the "True friend-Trustee", but "friend I like to hang out with" - on the same level as the rest of Student Council. This is why he says that "Let's return to the school together and have some fun again" thing on board of their mothership (forgot the name). As much as Kalulu fans love to interpret this as "OMG, LOVE CONFESSION!!!!!!1!1!OneEleven@!2!!1" It is NOT.

Well I think this could be made into a standalone article, but here are my thoughts on that dumb idea of KarenxLelouch.
And believe me I am NOT biased because I like CC. Take friggin Akane-Iro I finished lately - Despite not agreeing with Jun's choice, I can friggin agree that THERE WAS LOVE THERE. Some say it's ambigious, to me - it's clear as daylight whom he chose in the end. And believe me, I don't like that choice.

My point? There is NO romance between Karen and Lelouch.

Thank you.



-=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=-
 
01-05-09, 11:12 AM

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He didn't even see her as that much of a friend, it seems to me. I think he thought of her as expendable yet reliable. Remember, Lelouch does not have a romantic standing with any body but C.C. Anyway, I don't think that he ever thought about romance in his schedule. C.C. fell in love with Lelouch involuntarily. Kallen was used but if you think that she was very confused and that she was in love, you are wrong. I agree with you KallenxLelouch wounld not happen. If it did it wouldn't work. Even when she kisses Lelouch in the second to last episode i think, I'm pretty sure that it was a final send-off kind of thing. But, it might have been a crush king of thing. I think she was in love with zero, not Lelouch. She was all fucked up because Lelouch was zero and there fore had no clue at all as to what was going on. All in all, I agreee with you and i believe you found something in my words that I did not intend to say.
 
01-05-09, 11:20 AM

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Im pretty sure CC kissed lelouch in the final episodes of the first season to thank him. You know, he was like, "your not alone" and he got all happy about that.
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01-05-09, 3:34 PM

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Of course he was happy, I mean, after all he is inlove with C.C.
 
01-05-09, 9:31 PM

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Yep, they say that we never saw a true kiss between them, there couldve been one there, we just didnt see all of it. He came out smiling though. =]
Need a new sig
 
01-05-09, 10:04 PM

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I agree with Zongetsu's statement about C.C. kissing Lelouch because of what he said. I mean I don't think that a kiss is the only way she could have stored his memories and brought them back because Marianne was able to restore C.C.'s memories just by making contact with her and entering the world of C (or C.C.'s mind)
 
01-06-09, 11:27 PM

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i hate to be the bearer of bad news but lelouch really did die
it was confirmed "Lelouch's death is confirmed by writer Ichiro Okouchi in volume 42 of the Japanese magazine Continue[6][7] and the official Code Geass R2 guidebook lists him as dead."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lelouch_Lamperouge#Second_season
 
01-07-09, 6:46 AM

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the image of lelouch is dead he now lives on as R.R. thats what i think



 
01-10-09, 10:34 PM

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Even if Ichiro Okouchi says that Lelouch is dead, there are still ways to get around that.

If a Code bearer has to die first in order to become immortal, then Mr. Okouchi is still right. Lelouch was indeed dead, albeit temporarily. A Code bearer can remain dead for extended periods before reviving. Charles lay around dead for 5 minutes after V.V. gave him his Code in S2E15, while C.C. was out of it for the remainder of the very first episode after she got her brains blown out; Lelouch checked them both times and confirmed they were really dead and not just faking. Even if Suzaku and the others confirmed the complete and total cessation of all life functions, Lelouch could have revived at a later time and gone off into hiding.

There's also the semantic issue of Lelouch vi Britannia versus Lelouch Lamperouge. Lelouch vi Britannia, 99th Emperor of the Holy Empire of Britannia, quite obviously died. Lelouch Lamperouge, citizen of Britannia, is another issue entirely.

 
01-11-09, 12:12 PM

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You hit it right on the head =]
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01-12-09, 3:54 AM

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Lol, those guys at Wiki are funny XD

I Edited that article with "But there are many people who believe he is still alive" at the end, and in return I've been called a "Fanboy troll".

Funniest part of it is: I did not write "He IS alive". I wrote "Many people BELIEVE he is alive". Which is only a statement of the fact.
All hail Wikipedia, now THAT'S a reliable source ;)



-=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=-
 
01-12-09, 7:19 AM

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LOL someone already changed it XD
 
01-12-09, 8:00 AM

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Yeah, well that's the point.

Check the "discussion page" ;)



-=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=-
 
01-15-09, 12:09 PM

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zongetsu, thx for such detailed analysis. This topic even made me to sign up :)

I had similar theory when R2 ended, but not THAT detailed;)
 
04-26-09, 2:01 AM

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id also like to add if it hasnt been already that throught the anime its suggested that immortality is a curse, so i think that charles was danming lulu by giveing him eternal life, also i think it can also been seen as immortality being a far worse punishment than death, i mean they impply that death is an escape so if lulu died it would be a contradiction on the anime as a whole
 
04-26-09, 5:35 AM

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Though there are still people who seem to believe that Lelouch-dono's death would be completely just, and that it'd be a good thing if He died, because otherwise it wouldn't be fair to those whom He killed...

What surprises me though is that those people say that they're Lelouch's supporters >.> That's some really strange and twisted logic, if you want to know my opinion... It's like "Yeah, this guy's doing the right thing, I cheer on him... But he should die at the end of it, because what he does is wrong, and He should atone for this."

Pick one, would you?



-=Real, 100% Lelouch Lamperouge Zealot=-
 
06-08-09, 8:10 AM

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HELL NO DX If they were Lelouch supporters in the first place, they'd want him to LIVE. Mostly ANYONE with a character they love that was going to die, or has died, they'd wish they had lived because the series gets lonely after their favorite character drops out.
 
06-22-09, 10:01 AM

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Ive got one thing to say to this all.... Lelouch lives, there is enough proof that he is atleast. People say that he is dead are rather retards or didnt followed the anime good enough.


 
06-22-09, 1:01 PM

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yep
Need a new sig
 
07-02-09, 7:10 PM

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I am a believer!!! Hail Lelouch! Seriously I'm impressed that you managed to write the theory out with evidences shown. Else it's pretty hard to convince people. Thank you! Are you lelouch?? haha (for being so intelligent)
 
10-16-09, 4:16 AM

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im shure he is a live
 
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