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| Is Oh!Great writing this now? Because it sure as hell looks like it, considering how confusing the chapter was and all. |
| That was both confusing and excited for the next chapter. I thought it was Mana on the bed with Road with Neah looking down and Earl at the door. Also did anyone else think its weird how Earl was looking at Mana and Neahs mother and saying it was all Mana's fault in a happy ton. |
LovelyIdiot said: andrewsch5658 said: This chapter makes me LOL for the 1st half of the chapter and make my mind confused after reading the second half of the chapter. The first half basically the EARL loses himself and went rampage on Allen (or Nea in Earl's point of view). Earl using Balloon to attack Allen!!! That's quite epic!!!xD Allen stating the Earl's behaviour and the science division invention still hunts him really makes me LOL! A few action scene which is quite fast and cool. I'm quite shock in the second half of the chapter. 1. the Earl actually forgot who Mana is, I guess that's why Mana still can survive 30+ years. 2. Allen and Earl fuses together 3. The person Road's holding. Some people here and other website say its mana but I'm not sure about it and I do not think so as the person looks like a lady from that panel. 4. The person spying behind the door. Someone here mentioned its Bookman which I think its probably the case because he did had a Bookman stare IMO and its 35 years ago. 5. Earl saying "Mana D Campbell", does it mean Mana's true name is Mana D Campbell since Mana and Nea are in Campbell family stated in chp 214. But that's also the page which I loved the most in this chapter. Some people here and other website says Allen does not lool like Allen but I'm not sure about it and I think its still Allen because he seems like he does not understand the flashback. If its Nea, he most likely knows it. And the last page, Earl finally remember Mana. Also some people here and other website says the Earl calling Allen 'Mana' but I do not that's the case as the Earl just remember who Mana is since he forgotten Mana. In all, a short but awesome chapter. This chapter gives me a teaser trailer feel chapter where it give a few flashback to peek readers interest I would guess that the person Road was holding was a Noah Nea killed, as Nea was towering over them. Yea. I am thinking its either a Noah from the past or probably a family member. |
| Well aren't we all confused. |
“Girls can wear jeans and cut their hair short and wear shirts and boots because it’s okay to be a boy; for girls it’s like promotion. But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading, according to you, because secretly you believe that being a girl is degrading.”—Ian McEwan, The Cement Garden (1978) |
| oh DGM. I can always rely on on you for bringing me the best quality confusing mindfuck possible. Can't wait to see the explanation of this. |
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| o-o; Wow, I love you Hoshino-sensei. You're absolutely crazy. Mana should be Allen's adopted father if I recall...what happened to his mother? |
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shakeyourpup45 said: o-o; Wow, I love you Hoshino-sensei. You're absolutely crazy. Mana should be Allen's adopted father if I recall...what happened to his mother? Considering Allen was a grown-man before even meeting Neah, I am not even sure if she was around during the time of Mana's. |
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| We all never understood it. Tbh, I thought Mana = Earl, but that seems... impossibru. I DONT GET A SINGLE THING??? |
 set made by tsudecimo ★ i m a d g m t r a s h ★ pnch ★ blc ★ mal rewrite |
Aikawa_Yuu_Ace said: we all are whenever we read this and try to understand everything XDgo home Earl, you're drunk. |
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| I came here to see if someone could explain something about this chapter, but it seems that everyone's situation isn't different than mine. Everything about this chapter is mindfuck. I really liked it though. And I miss Lavi. |
| What is going on |
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| gets more confusing by the chapter ;< |
ChioneDyrken said: Will of D!!!! Hell yeah! |
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| O.O, I was so confused but IT WAS SOO AWESOME. Did understand some tid bits, mana has some relation with the Noah, and also road seems like she might be a good guy after all hmmm good chapter :D |
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stevobread said: I just noticed that the Earl calls him 'Mana D. "Campbell"'. Was Neah ever actually called 'Neah Walker'? Did Mana actually take Allen's last name instead of the other way around? I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure that "Walker" is neither Allen, Mana, nor Nea's last name. Mana and Nea's real last names were Campbell, and then perhaps Mana changed his last name to Walker after Nea died and then Allen adopted Mana's new last name "Walker" when Mana adopted him. |
Aikawa_Yuu_Ace said: go home Earl, you're drunk. |
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| geting so excited .. cant wait for the next chapter to come out .. Allen is Mana .. ohh Hoshino I love you .. |
| There is a big problem : In the beginning of the manga, Allen resurrected Mana as a Akuma with the Earl's powers. So, how the Earl can be Mana ? |
| Hum, but who was the man inside the Earl's globe? Wasn't he Mana crying for Noa? |
| Wow, was confusing who is who now? lol, next chapter only in March it's sad? Still love it!!. |
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| The art is getting a bit convoluted |
| OK so I was looking for more perspectives but everyone here's just confused. xD I'll explain what I *think* I understand is going on. Not saying I'm definitely right but there's some stuff that has begun to make sense to me... First though, some REPLIES (in spoiler): OK so it seems, as somebody mentioned early in the thread, the main point of this chapter is to begin to drive home: Mana D. Campbell is the current era's host body for the Earl of the Millennium. But he's not been completely suppressed by the Earl's memories, and only now has the Earl begun to remember this. The Earl blames Mana's consciousness for not only messing with his "mission" but for turning the 14th/Nea "against" him. Allen may have messed both himself and the Earl up by calling Mana's "soul" back to make an akuma (hence the 14th calling them both "mad puppets" in chapter 198). BTW I like the theory someone had from earlier about little Allen's parasitic innocence purifying the akuma form of Mana within him. I think Allen himself could have become an Alma-style akuma, but it didn't take. (It's also possible that without any of the Noahs' knowledge, Apocryphos "reprogrammed" Allen to be a good little exorcist.) NOTE: I'm not explaining this in detail because I don't want to make it TL/DR. If you want me to explain/support something, then please reply and ask me! ;) I can explain the above (or just list evidence). The only thing I don't understand is how we have an older past Allen and a younger present Allen. |
whitetearJan 19, 2013 4:08 AM
| Maybe there was two Mana, and one is dead (Allen's father) and the other is in the Earl. The Mana who is dead, learnt Allen the way to drive the Ark. Mana and Nea are in the same family, so the Earl is the Mana of the flashback in chapter 214. Mostly the Earl's words in the chapter 218 prove it. So Maybe the Earl split himself in two characters (like Piccolo and Kami-sama in DBZ). |
| Actually, there are some pages in the manga that suggest the human face of the Earl and older Mana (without the clown makeup) look very similar (Earl in several pages of chapter 188 and the one panel with Mana's face getting squeezed by little Allen in ch 206). Also, in 187, the Earl has hazy flashbacks of a kindly smiling Nea saying he'll "stay by [his] side." Sounds like something Nea would say to Mana, doesn't it? Looks to me like a sign the Earl was beginning to get Mana's memories back by that point. So I don't think they're two different people. Seems more to me like the Earl is in Mana's (host) body, but Allen has a small piece of his soul in his "cursed" eye. *edit* Kind of like how they needed Kanda's memories to jump-start Alma's memories in the NA Branch incident, Allen and the Earl "synced up" and had that shared flashback. |
whitetearJan 19, 2013 1:24 PM
| Really...? Read that please : http://www.mangareader.net/210-15094-14/dgray-man/chapter-3.html http://www.mangareader.net/210-15094-15/dgray-man/chapter-3.html http://www.mangareader.net/210-15094-16/dgray-man/chapter-3.html So how can you explain this ? |
| Good question. The folks I've discussed this with and I have several different possibilities for what was going on there. Here are a few of those... 1. Mana's soul was drawn from the Earl and not from "Heaven" or wherever they're normally supposed to be called from in the DGM world. The rest is more or less as we know it from the manga backstory. (**Actually, it might be nothing, but notice that in page 16, there's a very odd colour-negative image of the Earl in the middle of Mana's rage/woe-filled yelling at Allen? See it, with musical notes above his head? Every other image on that page looks normal and not distorted in any way, but for that one panel he looks very strange. Could that be a hint?) 2. Mana really did die (as a regular human) and his soul went wherever they go in DGM, but his body was "kept" by the Earl. When Allen called Mana's soul back, it messed with the Earl and Allen got cursed. 3. Allen's memories are either partially distorted or not at all reliable. (Actually one of these might be the case either way, seeing as it is implied that Allen is forgetting/misremembering something both by Nea in chapter 198 saying Allen and the Earl are "broken" or "mad" (depending on translation-- I'll have to check the Japanese at some point) "dolls" and by Allen nearly turning into Nea right before Apocryphos first attacked him in 203, just because he wondered if something would "change" if he remembered.) There are more theories but I'll just leave it at that for now. |
| Jasdavid can split himself in two characters, maybe the Earl has the same power. When Allen resurrected Mana Walker, he did it with the Earl's powers. So the at this moment the Earl was already Mana Campbell. I don't think the Earl taugh Mana Walker the way to drive the ark. And Mana Walker teach it to Allen during his life. So Mana Walker and Mana Campbell had the same memory, but not the same personnality. It's maybe why the Earl didn't kill Allen when he was a kid. |
| Yes, Jasdevi does but they're twins. Mana Campbell's brother was Nea. Can you explain a little more about why you feel they need to be two people? I already gave you some points (two posts ago) explaining how Mana and the Earl (human face) have similar features in their appearance, and the Earl (in ch 187) remembers what should be past Mana's memories. You haven't answered those points. I think Mana's childhood illness (ch 214 flashback) was a sign he was going to become the Earl. There is a lot of emphasis on whether Mana will ever wake up, while little Nea is talking to their mother. Prior to that, in chapter 203, Apocryphos warned Link not to let Allen fall asleep or he would never wake up as himself. Later, in chapter 212, Allen falls asleep and Johnny says it's not a "normal sleep," but that he must be "fighting with the 14th's memory." It's not conclusive but it's a strong sign Mana might have been fighting the Earl's memory even from childhood. |
whitetear said: Yes, Jasdevi does but they're twins. In the chapter 187, we can the real form of the Earl (with a sword) and 12 apostles on his side, so I think Jasdavid is the real form of the 10th and the 11th. whitetear said: Can you explain a little more about why you feel they need to be two people ?. The chapters you gave me don't prove Mana Walker = Mana Campbell. And more in the chapter 187, Wisley said the Earl has lived during 7000 years whence the name "the Millennium Earl", so we have two characters (two Mana), because Mana Walker is dead. En the chapter 187 we can see the Earl think about Nea but not Allen. So Mana Walker isn't Mana Campbell but they both can drive the Ark for a unknown reason. |
amenboy972 said: There are 12 apostles by the Earl because "the 14th" is not included with them. Wisely even says "the memories of the second to the 13th apostle." (notice that from 2 to 13 = twelve apostles)In the chapter 187, we can the real form of the Earl (with a sword) and 12 apostles on his side, so I think Jasdavid is the real form of the 10th and the 11th. Anyway, that's new. I've never ever heard of anyone trying to claim the 10th and 11th Noah disciples were actually one person before. I'm pretty sure they themselves state on the Ark that they can *become* one person and not that they're reverting to their "true self" by becoming one woman. The Noahs are numbered for *real* people from 7k years ago. It makes no sense to count a single "real" person twice-- they may not have even had powers yet when they were numbered! But most importantly, if they're Noahs of "Bonds," then their power should be to *bond together* and not to *divide/separate* from each other. I'm going to stick with the general consensus, and the way I believe Hoshino has always described them-- as twins. Again, you're the first person I've seen try to claim there are *two* Manas. Occam's Razor: The most obvious conclusion everyone else I've discussed this with has automatically come to is that the name "Walker" was mistaken, just like the name "Allen" was apparently a "mistake" (according to Cross). We don't have enough evidence to rule it out yet but I can say for now that having two Manas is very convoluted and highly unnecessary. Not only is there need of evidence for that, there's need of a reason for there to be two of them. Now, for the third time, rather than just saying you disagree or ignoring them, please properly refute the points I've provided. I'll repeat them below, and highlight some more: 1. Earl has a flashback that corresponds to memories that would fit the Mana of 35 years ago. (ch 187). 2. The Earl calls Mana and Nea's Campbell's mother "Okaasama," a very polite term, which strongly implies he sees her as his own mother. (Ch 218) 3. Mana's childhood illness suspiciously resembles the deep sleep before becoming a Noah 4. Cross talks about Mana and Nea being brothers but he calls them "Walker," if anything at all. Yet in the flashback in chapter 214, Nea talks to their mother about Mana and the Campbell family. Most people take this as a pretty good indication there's a naming discrepancy, and not that there are multiple Manas. The chapters you gave me don't prove Mana Walker = Mana Campbell. And more in the chapter 187, Wisley said the Earl has lived during 7000 years whence the name "the Millennium Earl", so we have two characters (two Mana), because Mana Walker is dead. Wisely didn't say HOW the Earl lived for 7000 years. If the Earl is partially based on the Count of Saint Germain, as Wikipedia states, he can easily enjoy the same kind of immortality as in the legend of the Count: via passing the same consciousness through multiple bodies.En the chapter 187 we can see the Earl think about Nea but not Allen. So Mana Walker isn't Mana Campbell but they both can drive the Ark for a unknown reason. What difference does it make if he thinks about Allen? It's even been said that Mana was a little crazy after his dog died and that he named Allen (formerly nameless and known as "Red" because of his red arm) after the dog because he thought Allen *was* the dog. Names are not that reliable in this story. I mean look at Allen's dream in chapter 184. Every time Mana calls his "name," it changes more and more away from Allen. |
| sorry I said a mistake : On this page there are 11 apostles and the Earl in the middle with a sword: http://www.mangareader.net/210-27347-11/dgray-man/chapter-187.html Can you explain this ? The Earl never die during 7000 years (chapter 187), so I think he cannot be Mana Walker . If the Earl think about Allen (flashbacks), so that proves he have the Mana Walker's memories. If I' m wrong, it's not a problem. Maybe you' re right.. why not... |
| Earl + 12 Noah: Yes, that's what I was talking about. The Earl (Noah #1) + the next 12 = Noahs #1 to #13. Noah #14 is not "protecting" the Earl. That's obvious even before chapter 188 where the 14th says he will succeed at killing the Earl this time, just as he tried to do 35 years before. Doesn't sound much like he's there to "protect" the Earl, does it? It's perfectly clear if you read that whole section. They don't talk about the 14th until Wisely brings him up offhand after the discussion about 13 Noah is *over*. Then Road says to shut up about him because it's a "personal matter." And Wisely doesn't even call Nea "the 14th." Instead, he calls him "that guy." Earl living continuously: As I said before, The Earl's character is partially based on the legend of a man who lived for centuries by *changing bodies*. When he swaps bodies, he keeps all his old memories. Wisely didn't say the Earl has live in the same body for 7000 years. Mana could easily just be the Earl's latest body. Mana Walker/Campbell thing (just so you can be absolutely sure): If there were two separate Manas, you wouldn't have Allen saying this: 167, p. 8: http://www.mangareader.net/210-15258-8/dgray-man/chapter-167.html And in the chapter before that, Cross outright states Mana Walker was Nea's older brother: 166, p. 11: http://www.mangareader.net/210-15257-11/dgray-man/chapter-166.html |
| The chapter 166 proves that Mana walker cannot be the Earl because, he was with Nea, when Nea betrayed the Noah clan. Thank you. On this picture, there are the Earl + 11 Noahs. You can count them they are eleven, not twelve. http://www.mangareader.net/210-27347-11/dgray-man/chapter-187.html |
| That Mana was "with" Nea up until the end means nothing if Mana and the Earl occupy the same body. xD Maybe if I explain more, you'll see what I mean. If you agree or not after that is up to you. 1. The way those of us who believe the Mana = Earl theory see it is that Mana 35 years ago was just like Allen is right now: struggling to keep the Noah memory *away* and stay a regular human. 2. Nea and Mana tried to run away from the other Noah clan members, but as we've been seeing with Allen, it's impossible for a Noah to hide from the other Noah... so Nea had to fight to protect Mana. Unfortunately, despite all that, the Earl gained enough control to finally kill Nea. 3. Obviously Mana came back after Nea died, but remember what Cross said? Mana was never the same after his brother died and had probably gone insane. Could it be that Mana lost control, let the Earl kill his (mother and) brother, and is so wracked with guilt (Allen's hallucination of Mana from Nea's memory in 212: "Do you hate me?" AND 218; Earl hallucinates Mana saying "Nea... I am sorry, Nea..."). What did we just see in chapter 218? The Earl is insane too! Coincidence yes, but there are a *LOT* of these "coincidences" going on. What did we see in chapter 187 (and then again at least one more time during the NA Incident)? The Earl has a fond memory of, and feelings for, Nea that resemble Mana's likely feelings about his younger brother. (The Earl even *calls* the 14th his brother at at least one point-- I personally think that's out of his *confusion* rather than it having to do with them both being Noahs.) *Looks* like Hoshino could be giving signs that Mana is still fighting back from deep within the Earl's mind. Here are some subtle yet compelling hints: a) In chapter 205, Road said Nea "fought for Mana." b) and that's after quoting his last words for Mana See both here: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/d_gray_man/c205/26.html http://www.mangahere.com/manga/d_gray_man/c205/27.html "But it's a secret," she says before disappearing. So what's the secret? Maybe it's the same thing to do with the 14th that she told Wisely to shut up about in chapter 187, because it's a "private matter." :> It could also be what Road and the Earl are talking about where they first appear in chapter 188: http://img1.d-gray-man.com/image.php?id=188&what=18 http://img1.d-gray-man.com/image.php?id=188&what=19 Now check out what the Earl says just two pages later): http://www.d-gray-man.com/manga/image.php?id=188&what=21 "I as the Millennium Earl can't stop..." and "I can't allow myself to stop, no matter what." Sound familiar?! Remember, what Road said in 205? These were Nea's *last words* and they were for *Mana.* (**Note: Most sites have that translation that says he must "keep standing," which makes no sense in context, regardless of whether you believe this theory or not. I think that's gotten people very confused...**) These sorts of subtle hints, once you start to notice them, are everywhere! 4. In chapter 214, Nea says he'll keep his promise to Mana. We think Nea promised that if Mana became the Earl for good, he would kill him (like Kanda intends to do if Allen "permanently" becomes Nea, though we know that won't likely happen) and become the new Earl (which Nea says he's going to do in chapter 188, I believe). So to us, these "secret" words, and the rest of the "private matter" between the Earl and the 14th is looking more and more like the Earl = Mana, and Nea chose to take Mana's side instead of joining the Earl. We think because he's clearly gone quite insane-- probably from the grief over killing his own brother-- the Earl's mind is just too *scrambled* to remember things clearly, much like Allen's too scrambled to remember 35 years ago, much to the 14th's chagrin. **** BTW I may have spoken too soon about the twins being one person (in the present)! You may be right about that one. Except I think that what it might be, as others I've discussed it with think, is that 7000 years ago they *were* two people, but every time they reincarnated, they were born from a single regular human. So ORIGINALLY they were two people, but because their Noah power is shared, they always *reincarnate from one person.* I still think the picture should have matched the text then, but whatever. :D |
whitetearJan 27, 2013 11:46 AM
| Da fuq is going on with this chapter?!?!?!?!? I understood nothing...primarily because the speech bubbles didn't exactly tell me who was saying what. Is Allen Mana and the Earl killed Allen's/Mana's mother? Or is the Earl Mana and then Allen killed Earl's/Mana's mother? Is Nea Allen, Mana, and the Earl all rolled into one and one of them killed somebody's mother and don't remember? LMAO! I think I just confused myself even more. To hell with it! Bring on my boyfriend, Tyki Mikk! |
Hannah_AnaJan 31, 2013 4:21 AM
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| Did you read my post right before yours? If the theory I and the others on another forum have worked out is true (and I'd say it's very convincing), it will explain what the arc is about and make 218 make a lot more sense. |
| Yes, you can compare those images to chapter 206 (see my whole post on the page before for links) where there's a slight glimpse of Mana's real face (no clown make-up), and it's from Cross' POV. He has the same hat, sideburns, beard, and moustache. Also, because 219 is delayed, I recently read the last D.Gray-Man Reverse novel chapter (which is canon), about Mana and Allen. Among other hints, it describes Mana having "golden eyes" twice (it's his most distinguishing feature to the little boy "Red," now known as Allen)-- like a Noah! --and calls him a "broken puppet" with "cut strings" or similar, three different times. I consider the "puppet" thing significant because "puppet" and "doll" are both "ningyou" (人形) in Japanese, and in chapter 198, Nea calls both Allen and the Earl "ningyou." (Which also reminds me how when the Earl and Allen in his Crown Clown form meet in Edo, they're compared as clowns-- like *Mana* and Allen were clowns.) There's more from that novel chapter, but it'd spoil it for those who might want to read. (imo it's worth reading, but very very sad.) Keep in mind, a possible alternate title to D.Gray-Man was "Dolls." So I suspect that the "doll" and "puppet" thing is very significant. And this is only the *latest* stuff I've noticed. Taking all of it together, that is one heck of a series of coincidences. So I'm certain Mana is at *least* a Noah like Nea, if not the Earl himself. |
| Haha, the last time I read DGM was pretty long time ago... Forgot who is Nea :'D And da fuq just happend? What's actually happening, what's this story about? And omg, why is Earl a bishie? Damn, Hoshino, what have u done to DGM? I'm sooooo confused xD |
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| It all makes perfectly fine sense. Sadly, hiatuses have led to people forgetting things, and certain unclear/incorrect translations have confused people. The Earl's human form was shown AGES ago, before the North American incident and then a couple more times since then. Allen is NOT Mana, though his eye might be connected to him or house part of his soul or something like that. There is a strong possibility that the Earl is Mana, or they are at least very deeply connected. If so, this will probably be revealed soon. |
| This is confusing but man, i can't wait for the story to clear and blow me away. I'm loving all these twists. |
I think the thing that makes this really unclear is just how similar some characters look to other characters. It's really hard for me to keep them all straight, especially with the changing hairstyles. I think I need to re-read the whole thing like 5/6 times in order to fully comprehend what just happened. I agree with this. I made a comment somewhere else about how I thought some of the characters are looking too similar and I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking that. |
| Lots of artists have either improved or changed their style during the course of a series and people are able to adjust. In this case I think the problem is really people forgetting things due to hiatuses, and faulty translations. Because seriously, I could probably mention a few of things that people here probably don't even know about or have the wrong impression of due to certain scanlations out there... |
taydev said: Oh no, guys! D: Scroll down for the news here: http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=816073&page=18 I hope Hoshino gets well and when she does, D. Gray-man will be moved to another magazine. Aw man, I thought something was off... too bad. Hope she gets well soon. Wonder what magazine it might move to though. This could be another long wait for the next chapter. |
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