Vampire Knight Chapter 88 Discussion

amaterasu888 said:
its clear to me that kaname is not really in love with yuuki, seems like he was in love with the vampire from his memories. so as a kaname fan i dont really care if he gets with yuuki or not. but one thing does seem to be clear to me, the way he treats yuuki is the way that she treats zero. and for all the zeki fans out there, i dont really like that if im a zero fan. i mean its like she runs the relationship. im a kaname fan but i like zero. i hope he ends up with someone else, i wouldnt want to be zero. the girl i love is constantly asking herself whether or not she like me...she always knew she was in love with kaname. the way she looks or used to look at kaname is the way that zero deserves to have someone look at him, not take away his memories because she is afraid of hurting him wtf its like pity or something.
i dont want kaname to die because he in my opinion is the only interesting character in the manga and id rather see him end up with yuuki, and zero end up with some hot vampire chick who is a better a woman than yuuki. hate to reference twilight but, kaname is obviously her edward and zero is obviously her jacob, and to all the zero fans out there...who wants to be somebodies jacob. zero can do better and deserves better.
and by the way, why do people hate kaname so much. with the exception of uchiha itachi, hes the dopest character ive ever seen. hes cool, calm and collected, and unselfish even though his methods may be dark in nature, but...he is a vampire, i mean what are we expecting. this is a manga about vampires not angels

Narutowolf77 said:


Don't count your chickens before they hatch, for one while Yuuki may care for Zero romantically but she also seems to still care for Kaname romantically (I haven't seen any evidence to suggest otherwise), and we still don't know the rest of the sentence started in chapter 87 "The boy I want to cherish...I love him. But I..." we still don't know what the rest of "But I..." is (could be "But I...love Kaname more", "But I...need to save Kaname", "But I... belong with Kaname" etc. Personally I hope for the first one), all we know is that it pertains to Kaname since it shows Yuuki's mask falling off right when she sees him meaning she knows exactly how she feels for both boys now. Also I don't think she'd be saying the only way to stop Kaname is to turn him human if she didn't still hold some feelings for him, I actually interpret this line as her saying "I can't bring myself to kill him so there's no other choice".

dann_anime said:
Kaname is good as I said he is doing it For yuki pfft.....

this is the new beginning he promised her....TT

but did anyone realized how sad was kaname's eyes when he looked at yuki befor his departure ...no he loves her ...but she is like so lost twilight pffffft

I hope Matsuri hino won't sacrifice kaname...because he deserve happiness for once!!!
from the beginning of this manga he is suffering ..

guys she left zero, and she want to sacrifice herself ( I mean ,how she will turn him otherwise she won't have to undo zero's memories ) to save Kaname ....he is still her number one...

inn0centdem0n said:

three chapters more? hmnn. I hope Hino-Sensei can pull it off. I mean,up to the last arc, we are still wondering on who she's going to end up with.. will wait patiently and with control (i hope) .... :))

underthesamesky said:

Yuuki calling Kaname her brother/oniisama
There are three translations out now: one by senbyafanatic on livejournal, which is translated from the Chinese Raws. She translated this line as "My brother." The other two are the scanlation teams, S2Scans and White Lily Scans, and they both translated it as Kaname-onii-sama.

Zero Sacrificing Himself
I won't say it can't happen, but at the end of the day Zero is still an ex-human vampire and we don't know much about his abilities as a complete twin born to the hunters. The reason a pureblood is necessary for creating a new furnace is because as Kaname discovered, the only thing capable of destroying them is themselves, thus a pureblood sacrifice being necessary. As for turning a vampire into a human (I forget now if this one was actually mentioned on here or not, sorry!), I think this is also something beyond an ex-human vampires abilities.

Nendz said:

I'm still confused about a few things tho;

1. Doesn't Kaname actually love the hooded woman like in the dream/vision he showed Yuuki?
and 2. didn't Kaname say that he's not actually Yuuki's brother but stole his body or whatever?

Nendz said:

I still don't know why Kaname does all this though, he promised Yuuki a new start but to make her happy he should've just stayed with her and not risk his life and make her stop loving him (like being rude to her, 'You're in my way' etc.)

underthesamesky said:
I'm fairly certain that Yuuki was successfully able to erase Zero's memories

Orulyon said:

What I never understood (and Im open to explanations!) is why in one chapter long time ago Kaname was talking to "dead" Rido and saying "While Im alive you can never die". or something like that. I still cant get why Rido´s "ghost" haunts Kaname.

Orulyon said:
What I never understood (and Im open to explanations!) is why in one chapter long time ago Kaname was talking to "dead" Rido and saying "While Im alive you can never die". or something like that. I still cant get why Rido´s "ghost" haunts Kaname.

Narutowolf77 said:
Thank you for clearing up the whole 'brother' thing for me. I wanted to know how accurate the translation was manily because I came across some Zeki fans saying that it meant Yuuki prefers Kaname as her brother, which I still don't really buy because:

underthesamesky said:

In this arc, Yuuki hasn't said she loved Kaname at all, or even liked him, not even when directly asked. She referred to him as Kaname-oniisama even though they were engaged, and while we can say that's because she felt he was her brother, it would make more sense for her to still be used to calling him Kaname-sama because that's what she had referred to him as for ten years of her life when she was human. Since they were engaged, she should have been calling him just "Kaname" after living together for a year, but I would have personally understood simply "Kaname-sama" since it would be hard to change old habits. Referring to him as oniisama though made it seem like that was how she saw him, as her brother. From Yuuki's end there was just a lot of awkwardness in their relationship, she was very passive. Not only that, but she hasn't reflected on her relationship with Kaname much at all. There's no flashbacks to memories that are important to her, like we've seen Zero have with Yuuki and Yuuki have with Zero. There's still no acknowledgement of her feelings for Kaname now, even in her mind. We were never shown the affect Kaname's blood had on Yuuki like we did with Zero. And, to top it all off, she wasn't being sated by Kaname but after drinking from Zero she suddenly understands what being sated is like.

So for me, all of that plus Yuuki's ideal world having Kaname as her brother is what makes me feel that's how she sees him. She's supposed to be his fiancee but she feels no guilt whatsoever for her romantic advances toward another guy o_O I mean, biting Zero, offering her blood to him on the train in 87 just like how Ruka offered her blood to Kaname before, licking her blood off Zero's face, leaning up to kiss him and then showing no remorse for it whatsoever when she is LITERALLY caught in the act? Personally I think it would be better for her character if that was because her feelings for Kaname weren't romantic, otherwise she looks really bad. She's fantasizing about a world where she could have been with Zero, but even on her own we've never seen her fantasize about a world where Kaname wouldn't have found it necessary to do what he's doing and they could have just lived together. I'm willing to take this back if it happens in future chapters or something else happens in the manga to counter my opinion, but for now...

Narutowolf77 said:
Yuuki has said she likes Kaname since coming to live with him, in chapter 66 she says she does like him but her feelings are mixed which is why she asked if they could start over so she could examine her feelings.

DJIzzyIzzyHitler said:
Can we all just come to an agreemant that yuuki is a slut and just move on instead of having internet arguments and wall of texts

underthesamesky said:

I'll let you finish your post since you said you'd type up more later, I just wanted to point out that the one line you're citing from Yuuki is actually a mistranslation and was translated differently in the official volumes by Viz Media. Yuuki isn't referring to her feelings but Kaname's feelings: she says that she's not even sure he likes her, and then she corrects herself and says that he does like her but there are other feelings mixing together. Then she says she wants to start over and examine him more closely. ^^ So, she still hasn't mentioned her feelings for Kaname in this arc.


lol no one's arguing, the LT is one of the main components of the plot and we're discussing it civilly while also respecting each other's opinion. If you think our tone is argumentative, you should venture out to the Vampire Knight section at tumblr or MangaFox and take a look. :P People get nasty there o_O Like, you have no idea lol. I'm actually surprised by how tame it is here.

Also, my posts are usually always walls of text even when they're not about anything controversial xD I just type a lot. I can't speak for anyone else who might have had a long post recently though.

underthesamesky said:

I'll let you finish your post since you said you'd type up more later, I just wanted to point out that the one line you're citing from Yuuki is actually a mistranslation and was translated differently in the official volumes by Viz Media. Yuuki isn't referring to her feelings but Kaname's feelings: she says that she's not even sure he likes her, and then she corrects herself and says that he does like her but there are other feelings mixing together. Then she says she wants to start over and examine him more closely. ^^ So, she still hasn't mentioned her feelings for Kaname in this arc.

lol no one's arguing, the LT is one of the main components of the plot and we're discussing it civilly while also respecting each other's opinion. If you think our tone is argumentative, you should venture out to the Vampire Knight section at tumblr or MangaFox and take a look. :P People get nasty there o_O Like, you have no idea lol. I'm actually surprised by how tame it is here.

Also, my posts are usually always walls of text even when they're not about anything controversial xD I just type a lot. I can't speak for anyone else who might have had a long post recently though.

DJIzzyIzzyHitler said:
people get just as bad here, just go to the last chapter discussion for a prime example

Narutowolf77 said:
Thanks for correcting me on that also rather than finishing my post on here I think I'm going to finish my KanaYuu essay and post a link to it when I get it up or I would REALLY have a wall of text going XD

And actually the VK section on Mangafox is pretty tame, but I think it used to be bad because there is a topic that says threads and posts needing moderation.

Ah btw I noticed that there isn't an actual topic on MAL for discussion/debate on the VK LT (well there are two that sort of reply but the last posts in both are over two months old so we obviously can't use them) but do you think someone should make one because I'd like to be able to discuss and debate my OTP without straying too far off topic or making a Mangafox account that I'd probably never use again after VK ends XD

amaterasu888 said:
IMO she either wants to die or be with kaname, thats not the way you treat someone you want to be with (in reference to zero). and if she does want to be with him, then...i wouldn't want to be zero because its almost like she sees him as a little brother or something, you know, someone she has to take care of.

LuisaCunha said:
I'm a fan of Kaname! And, after reading this chapter, I find many answers for him.
Yuki loves Kaname and Zero but deep down, actually the love she feels for Kaneme is much higher.

But one thing for sure that I know, Yuki's life belong to kaname, Yuki's heart belongs to zero. Actually, I feel that kaname will be the parent metal. Zero, the underdog till the very end will have his memory erased, Yuki will continue as a normal student with zero not remembering anything about her

alysonskye said:
So please don't try to tell me that they make a good couple because a romantic love is between two equal partners in a relationship, and you can't seriously say that Kaname treats Yuuki like anything but his child.

alysonskye said:
Kaname's not going to end up with Yuuki in the end

Vesperlynd said:

@DJIzzyIzzyHitler She has no sex whatsoever. I'm not sure where the 'slut' comes from. Slut shaming is really annoying and offensive, please refrain.

Narutowolf77 said:


I WAS going to wait until I finish my KanaYuu essay before replying to anyone else's post but you're just making far to many assumptions for me to ignore. It's okay to have your own beliefs and interpretations but it's downright rude to KanaYuu fans, or fans of any pairing when there is a LT, when you state your beliefs and interpretations as FACTS when they are still OPEN to interpretation. It wasn't you're whole post that ticked me off it was these two quotes that did:



Practically telling KanaYuu fans that they aren't allowed to have an opinion and:



Making an assumption as though it's fact almost as if to say KanaYuu fans are stupid for even believing it. Honestly how would you like it if I said:

"Zero's not going to end up with Yuuki in the end. Don't even try to tell me that they make a good couple because romantic love does not include pointing a gun at the other person or saying you will kill them, it's accepting a person no matter who or what they are, the good and the bad."

(Although that last bit about romantic love being about "accepting a person no matter who or what they are, the good and the bad." is indeed true XD)

Anyways please try to be a little more courteous when stating your beliefs and predictions, thanks :)

DJIzzyIzzyHitler said:
you're thinking of whore, shes a slut if she is jumping back and forth between 2 dudes

alysonskye said:

Sorry! I wasn't trying to offend anyone. The way I was taught in school to assert an opinion is to just state it as if it's fact, because if it's an opinion being stated, "I think" or "I believe" is redundant. Obviously if it's an opinion or assumption I'm stating than it's only my opinion or assumption and not fact.

I admit that I worded that wrong, they can have a relationship that will work, it's just if the partners in a relationship do not treat each other as equals the way as I believe Kaname and Yuuki do not then it will never fit my definition of a "good couple" or "romantic relationship".

For the record, I have seen a few people say that about Zero and Yuuki having too messed up a history to have a working relationship. That's fine, that's a valid opinion, and I was never offended by it. Not calling you stupid because you disagree with me, just asserting my opinion. Relax.

If you disagreed with me, I would have really preferred if you discussed your differing opinion and why you think I'm wrong rather than just call me rude.

chyel416 said:
Gosh i really hate Yuuki now (is not like i dont hate her in the past). She's like the only character in this manga that haven't mature( Ok some of u might be.. hey she did mature , she have thoughts of saving the world by stopping Kaname ..blah blah blah) But seriously, all she did so far was so brainless, she's so weak and yet she act strong? Cant she just see where she actually stands or how weak she actually is!? I am glad that Zero is not reckless as before and actually grown up . While Kaname decided to do something good.

Seriously i will pray to whatever supernatural stuff out there that Yuuki will at least GROW UP WITH SOME BRAINS AND SENSES.

amaterasu888 said:
dann_anime thank you for being one of the few people who appreciate kaname and his sacrifice.
yuuki is obviously not planning on being with zero...
i mean if i wanted to be with someone i wouldn't erase their memories.
IMO she either wants to die or be with kaname, thats not the way you treat someone you want to be with (in reference to zero). and if she does want to be with him, then...i wouldn't want to be zero because its almost like she sees him as a little brother or something, you know, someone she has to take care of. its like she doesn't respect him as a man.
kaname is the bad ass of this show and is playing his role to perfection. he is the most powerful vampire and he is acting like it. all of the seemingly selfish things he has done so far have been for selfless reasons.


IMO the only people who have a gripe with kaname are zero and people who like him. and aido. time will tell what happened with aido's father. but Kaname is completely wrong for manipulating zero as much as i like kaname zero deserves some justice, this guy has been done completely wrong, by kaname and yuuki. zero deserves to live.
i honestly hope none main three characters die, i think they all deserve happy endings, they've all been through alot.
yuuki for example; your uncle kills your dad and wants to either molest you or kill you...and i dont know which is worse. you have to live practically in an underground bunker your whole life then have your memories manipulated by your mother. then the only person who is close to you hates vampires, which you happen to be...and not only are you a vampire, you're the worst kind of vampire to the person you are close to. the man you admire and are in love with(according to her own words) is a murdering liar, but he was honest about it lol eventually. this guy also doesnt love you enough to make you his first priority and instead chooses to kill himself instead of stay with you. i hope she has a happy ending
zero; this guy...your parents were murdered by a pureblood. your twin brother who you loved was happy about this...
this same brother is weak because you ate a portion of him in the womb and his life sucks because of it. now when you get older you have to finish the job and eat the rest of him...(thats great) then the woman you love turns out to be the very thing you hate and you have to watch her go off with another man oh and by the way this man who She Loves is the man who was responsible for your parents murder(indirectly) and lets not forget that the woman who killed your parents turned you into a vampire. and lets cap it off. just when you think the woman you love loves you back. NOPE i kissed you but sorry im erasing your memories so i can go after the guy that you hate who i said i was in love with and used to live with and was engaged too...
yeah...i hope he has a happy ending
Kuran Kaname
-he deserves a happy ending...because hes a bad ass among bad asses and name a character in any anime/manga anywhere that is cooler than this guy. to be as powerful as he is he is extremely considerate and merciful in the way he deals with the majority of people. i mean he pointed his hand to rido(who is a pureblood) and blew him up into a thousand pieces, who is going to challenge this guy. has he abused his power...yeah. but he could've been a lot worse. the love his life sacrificed herself and left him alone and it seemed that it hurt him so much that he wanted to sleep forever. then his own family resurrected him by killing a baby...(yeah) and then killed the family that he was resurrected into. then he realizes that he cant kill this guy even though he can blow him up into a thousand pieces. so yeah he creates someone who can in zero, because he wanted to protect yuuki. his methods for this was wrong but zero was so young i dont think he had any other choice. he put zero and yuuki together on purpose and made zero strong on purpose. and now rido is dead and yeah kaname has to deal with the consequences, but i dont think he deserves to die. i just think zero should beat him to within an inch of his life and yuuki should stop him lol

Don't count your chickens before they hatch, for one while Yuuki may care for Zero romantically but she also seems to still care for Kaname romantically (I haven't seen any evidence to suggest otherwise), and we still don't know the rest of the sentence started in chapter 87 "The boy I want to cherish...I love him. But I..." we still don't know what the rest of "But I..." is (could be "But I...love Kaname more", "But I...need to save Kaname", "But I... belong with Kaname" etc. Personally I hope for the first one), all we know is that it pertains to Kaname since it shows Yuuki's mask falling off right when she sees him meaning she knows exactly how she feels for both boys now. Also I don't think she'd be saying the only way to stop Kaname is to turn him human if she didn't still hold some feelings for him, I actually interpret this line as her saying "I can't bring myself to kill him so there's no other choice".

Although you could argue that because she refers to him as "Kaname-oniisan" that her feelings are of brother and sister however I see a lot of holes in this as this is one of things she called him as in the past before she finally started calling him Kaname, also I've only seen one translation of the chapter so far and I would like to see another one or have someone actually translate the kanji from the original for me before I really trust it since there was a major difference in two translations from chapter 87 (one said "fondness" and the other said "I love him"). Also I don't think Yuuki's speculation speech exactly gives points to Zeki (and I say this from a completely non-biased standpoint) for one it's almost like Yuuki saying the only way for them to be together is in an alternate world and for another Zero crushed that idea by saying that "In the first place if we were humans we would not have any links" meaning they probably wouldn't fall in love because they wouldn't have anything connecting them (which I can see considering they don't really have much in common), that's just the way I interpret this (and please trust me even though I'm a KanaYuuki fan I try to interpret Zeki scenes from a non-biased standpoint - especially now that I no longer HATE Zero after I vented all my rage in a old forum post, although I still don't necessarily LIKE him and I'm a few points short of neutral).

obviouslygeeky said:

I think that Yuuki feels romantic love for both Kaname and Zero but I do think that your bias against Zero perhaps prevents you from seeing the manga's focus at the moment is Yuuki's feelings for Zero, and I think these feelings are currently stronger than her feelings for Kaname. When Yuuki talks about being a human I think it's very clear that in that if she was a human not a vampire she would regard Kaname just as a brother and that Zero is the one she would be interested in not Kaname. For pure blood vampire incest is ok/normal but for humans it is not which is why I think in that scenario if Yuuki was a human and did not remember being a vampire than her feelings for Kaname would be normal sibling love not romantic love.
As for Zero crushing the notion that they would of never fallen in love in an alternate world, I don't take that as being crushing for Zeki in any way, it's just typical Zero behavior - it would most likely be just as Yuuki says it would be. If Hino went for a scenario where Kaname somehow heroically dies and Yuuki and Zero become humans (or all 3 of them become humans) I can imagine the final scenes/chapter playing out in a scene just as Yuuki imagined.
Regardless of who lives or dies or what the end pairing is (there might not even be an end pairing if it ends in tragedy) I hope that Hino does justice to both Zero and Kaname's characters arcs so that fans can at least be happy with that aspect even if they are disappointed with their ship not 'winning'.

Vesperlynd said:
Looks a moderator came deleted the 88 thread and one other one (perhaps more). Site and Forum Guidelines have been newly updated too. The flaming must have gotten out of hand.

I agree that it's only a matter of time until Zero regains his memories. I guess erasing his memories will allow Yuuki to break free of his tail XD and we'll get some scenes where Yuuki can talk to Kaname alone.