RyanSaotome said: It may be a sense of entitlement, but theres no point to animating Little Busters in the first place if you're not gonna do Refrain. Either do it all or don't do any of it. My thoughts exactly. If they don't do Refrain and Rin route (which doesn't fit in the 10 episodes that the series have left), I'm pretty sure another studio will later re-do LB! anime. |
| Considering KyoAni took a lifeless and pretty much plotless anime like Chuunibyou and made it Fall 2012's best selling anime, I doubt the same couldn't have been done with Little Busters. The order of events in the Little Busters anime and the huge amount of flaws are extremely careless mistakes that anyone here who read the visual novel could better arrange. The idea that Little Busters, one of the most moe anime, isn't a "hot proposition" I think is a blunder by whoever's in charge of selecting animation source material. http://atxpieces.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/winter-v3final.jpg There are more moe animes this winter season than not... Little Busters is one of the moe animes I've seen, and it has incredible and memorable source material to back it up. The characters are more vibrant than those of Clannad, colorwise at the least if you don't specifically like them. KyoAni just wants to crush my dreams of having my favorite VN adapted properly. I guess it was a combination of people not feeling like reading and analyzing Little Busters to figure out how to arrange the plot for the anime, and a lack of studios with people willing to gamble with Key's top selling masterpiece, while every other studio is throwing out 12 episode adaptations of every forgettable moeblob romcom manga and light novel. Even with how poor it's been adapted, the loyal fans have made the Little Busters anime a high-ranking seller. It's just really heartbreaking to see the potential that Little Busters had completely squashed whenever I watch the anime with my friends. I can't get them to feel the same emotions I felt from the visual novel. I'm sure there are others who feel the same way, or have been in that same situation when trying to recommend this as an ongoing anime to watch. tldr; If they do Kud, waifu, Refrain routes, maybe some EX, ok, I'll forgive everyone's negligence for Little Busters. And at least I have the VN to replay ;< |
Vladz0r said: Almost stopped reading here. There's no need to add bias to your posts. It just makes it harder to take you seriously especially when you treat LB as if it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.Considering KyoAni took a lifeless and pretty much plotless anime like Chuunibyou and made it Fall 2012's best selling anime, I doubt the same couldn't have been done with Little Busters. |
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Yvese said: It just makes it harder to take you seriously especially when you treat LB as if it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. A well done adaption of Little Busters could have been the best anime ever made, IMO. The Little Busters VN is better than Clannad, and I have Clannad/After Story among my top 5 anime. |
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RyanSaotome said: I'm sure it could have been for a lot of fans. As I said before, it had the potential to be a huge seller like previous titles. Yvese said: It just makes it harder to take you seriously especially when you treat LB as if it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. A well done adaption of Little Busters could have been the best anime ever made, IMO. The Little Busters VN is better than Clannad, and I have Clannad/After Story among my top 5 anime. _liliput said: What are you, 12?It is just some people here get easily upset if their favorite anime and favorite studio got owned by another one HAHA. |
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Vladz0r said: Plotless?? Chuunibyou?? What is your definition of Plot ???Considering KyoAni took a lifeless and pretty much plotless anime like Chuunibyou and made it Fall 2012's best selling anime, I doubt the same couldn't have been done with Little Busters. Vladz0r said: Isn't that obvious, given the fact that almost every midnight anime in every season deploys moe to a large extent? There are more moe animes this winter season than not... +++ Anyway, I think people should forget about KyoAni adapting Key stuff. KyoAni at present is different from KyoAni in the old days - they prefer to do their own stuff and try out new things on their own. This may be why they have been adapting obscure or semi-obscure LN, manga and novel for anime and does not touch Key, Haruhi or Lucky Star. |
symbvJan 30, 2013 3:33 AM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: Vladz0r said: Plotless?? Chuunibyou?? What is your definition of Plot ???Considering KyoAni took a lifeless and pretty much plotless anime like Chuunibyou and made it Fall 2012's best selling anime, I doubt the same couldn't have been done with Little Busters. Um, Chuunibyou is plotless. (unless you call that melodrama at the end a plot) symbv said: Anyway, I think people should forget about KyoAni adapting Key stuff. KyoAni at present is different from KyoAni in the old days - they prefer to do their own stuff and try out new things on their own. This may be why they have been adapting obscure or semi-obscure LN, manga and novel for anime and does not touch Key, Haruhi or Lucky Star. If their 'original' stuff was actually better than the other stuff they could be doing, I'm pretty sure nobody would complain.But that's subjective, I guess. (not really) And trying out new things? Yeah, because moe being the priority over any kind of plot is surely very new from them.K-ON left me on the edge of my seat every single week, Chuunibyou kept me up all night thinking about how it'd all come together and Tamako Market, wow, those cliffhangers are killing me right now. ...Well, sarcasm aside.They just won't leave this weird comfort zone they've set up for themselves, and that's a shame. |
skapandiJan 31, 2013 7:22 AM
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jmal said: skapandi said: Um, Chuunibyou is plotless. (unless you call that melodrama at the end a plot) You're making a very very common mistake: confusing "I didn't like the plot" for "There is no plot". I see this happen all the time about many, many, many shows. No, there really wasn't any big plot to that show. |
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| Far too many Westerners think plots only when you have some big epic fighting series or political drama or whatever else. They can't appreciate nice little romcoms like Chuuni. |
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jmal said: skapandi said: No, there really wasn't any big plot to that show. Now you've moved the goalposts and backpedaled from "plotless" or "no plot", which should be fairly objective, to "not a big plot", which is firmly subjective. Which precisely proves my point. Well, I thought about Rikka overcoming her chuuni thing and kind of reconsidered my choice of words.Still, the show seemed to have set itself up to be a comedy at first, only to suddenly make the chunni thing a problem and shoehorn some melodrama in at the end and call that it's 'plot'.Which doesn't really count as a plot for me, especially when 70% of the time they were goofing around like in many other slice of life/comedy shows. RyanSaotome said: Far too many Westerners think plots only when you have some big epic fighting series or political drama or whatever else. They can't appreciate nice little romcoms like Chuuni. I'm european, though. And I love a good romcom or slice of life, I just didn't like Chuuni. |
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| @skapandi Give me your definition of "plot" and then explain why Chuunibyou's story is not a plot. As jmal said, what you seem to want is a plot you deem worthy and big enough for YOU, not whether the anime has a plot. To be honest, even slice-of-life anime has plot, just not an overarching grand plot that many people in the west who seems to recognize as the only thing that can be called "plot". |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: @skapandi Give me your definition of "plot" and then explain why Chuunibyou's story is not a plot. As jmal said, what you seem to want is a plot you deem worthy and big enough for YOU, not whether the anime has a plot. To be honest, even slice-of-life anime has plot, just not an overarching grand plot that many people in the west who seems to recognize as the only thing that can be called "plot". You see, plot for me is when characters do stuff for a purpose(or goal) and when the story has a clear beginning, middle, and end.Not like when in Chuuni's case, characters interact in a slice-of-life manner doing humorous stunts for most of the show and then suddenly decide their stunts are childish and stop doing them, leading to some cringe worthy melodrama to try and make the viewer sad.Really, it's almost like Kyoani wanted to try and emulate the Key formula of 'funny start, sad middle/end' and totally missed the mark--because unlike in a Key story like, say, LB, it didn't have a clear view of where it wanted to go(or what it wanted to be) from the beginning. |
skapandiJan 31, 2013 12:51 PM
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_liliput said: Vladz0r said: Considering KyoAni took a lifeless and pretty much plotless anime like Chuunibyou and made it Fall 2012's best selling anime, I doubt the same couldn't have been done with Little Busters. Since it is their second attempt on writing their own original story after the failure that is Munto, I agree that Chuuni is not a well written story and is very much inferior compared to a good story like Little Busters. Kyoani is way behind the story department. Props to them for taking the risk IF it is true that they don't want to adapt LB in the first place. If not, then props to JCstaff for agreeing to adapt an outdated visual novel that should've gotten an anime years ago. And I don't think you're bias just like Yvesse said. It is just some people here get easily upset if their favorite anime and favorite studio got owned by another one HAHA. I enjoy JC Staff and KyoAni's work, but it kind of depends what kind of experience I'm looking for. I never knew it from the beginning of watching Little Busters, but after playing the VN, I realized that I wanted a more fulfilling and rich experience to indulge in than one of the hundreds of short anime romcoms that are released constantly every season. JC Staff has done good with these animes I group as "lots of fun, idgaf about plot, and animes that don't give me as much feels, like Sakurasou, Bakuman, Toradora, Zero no Tsukaima, Ano Natsu de Materu. If anything, I've seen more JC Staff anime than KyoAni stuff, and I've enjoyed the lighthearted experiences they've adapted material for. KyoAni would probably hit me harder in the feels, even if they had the same amount of character development that the Little Busters anime under JC is currently getting. They just do melodrama beautifully. tldr: I just want more feels now, KyoAni does it better, but I like JC romcoms for fun. LB |
skapandi said: As jmal said, it is your definition of plot, and using that personal definition of "plot" to judge an anime and then call such anime as "plotless" just because it does not meet your personal definition of "plot" does not really make sense. We can check any dictionary and plot would be the story narrated in fiction in media like novel or movie. Nothing more. Your requirements are not necessary for a "plot". As long as we see the sequence of the events is telling a story or some stories, there is a plot (or plots) there. You see, plot for me is when characters do stuff for a purpose(or goal) and when the story has a clear beginning, middle, and end. As I said, even the slice-of-life events are telling some stories. And in Chuunibyou's case, it can be argued that they also serve to build up the characters and illustrate how the relationships among them evolve, and there is clearly story going on (in fact on more than one level: the small plot for each slice-of-life moment, and a higher level plot for the overall narrative). skapandi said: I guess you are too much of a believer of Key. The funny start and sad middle/end is not Key's exclusive formula, nor first started by Key. As for how well KyoAni executed this forumla, that is a separate issue. I can see why some may feel the execution is not done very well (and I tend to agree with those people), but it does not mean Chuunibyou thus has no plot or KyoAni is really just doing some inferior copycat work following Key..Really, it's almost like Kyoani wanted to try and emulate the Key formula of 'funny start, sad middle/end' and totally missed the mark--because unlike in a Key story like, say, LB, it didn't have a clear view of where it wanted to go(or what it wanted to be) from the beginning. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| isn't it too soon to announce this ? i still prefer how Steins Gate telling their fans right after the series end. even tho' there will be announcement at the end... but this is fine too, pace is too slow for an animated VN. |
cads said: but this is fine too, pace is too slow for an animated VN. Kinda funny how VN fans are complaining they are rushing through the routes too much though. BahamutZero said: It was really damage control that they announced the planning of a second season early I think Well, they had to. Theres no point in a Little Busters adaption in the first place if they don't animate Refrain. The entire first season builds up to that. |
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| Well, i hope there are chance to animate the three new heroines in ecstasy. |
zril said: The more I watch LB the more I think Kyoani didn't wan't to adapt it because it was so bad compared to previous Key VNs. I mean, mc is lame as hell, the only thing good about him is its narcolepsy but they aren't even doing anything with it, even though it would be quite easy. There are 3 other guys but they are useless and not fun. During the first 10 episodes of Clannad, Sunohara did ten times more than all of them combined for now, in terms of both comedy and drama. Girls are also very disappointing, Komari and Kud are annoying as hell, the rest look not so bad but I feel they are just weaker versions of previous Key characters with some little tweaks... I'm pretty much a Kyoani fanboy, I liked Hyouka and Chuuni, and I'm enjoying Tamako (not as much though). But I liked Clannad and Kanon for both story and good production value. But I feel that even Kyoani wouldn't have been able to make something good off LB,I mean as good as Clannad or Kanon. But now I'm reading that LB is the most successful Key VN ever. So can anyone tell me what happened there ? Is J.C. Staff so bad that they are able to ruin a masterpiece ? I can see that their adaptation is cheap, and that it would have been a lot prettier done by Kyoani. But it shouldn't be so dramatically different, Clannad is one of my favorites, whereas LB looks like a bad slice of life comedy punctuated by bad drama, I'm only watching because I've still some remaining faith in Key. Or is Kyoani that good at conveying Key material ? Why don't you try the VN to see it to yourself? This is just going repetitive. True that LB has bad slice of life humor, more or less likely, most of the time. Regarding to the drama effect, I can say it's JC Staff's fault and I can say KyoAni can do better about it BUT I can see it will make only slight difference. zril said: Or is Kyoani that good at conveying Key material ? I may agree with this but KyoAni wouldn't handle LB due to its complicated storyline which is why they didn't want to adapt LB. |
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| Harukas route took out like half the content... its by far the longest route of the VN and the lack of time it had to adapt it butchered it. And this is coming from someone who was quite happy with the adaption beforehand. It needed like 5 episodes to do well. So many important scenes were flat out removed. Some even important enough they got their own CGs, like the cell phone scene (which was even in the VN Opening as one of the highlights of Harukas route). |
RyanSaotomeFeb 10, 2013 9:15 AM
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| Kyoani stated that they were too busy to adapt it. (hyouka at the time, then chuuni/tamako filled up the timeslot) and trust me, execution can make ALL the difference. want proof? kanon 2006 > kanon 2002 Clannad > clannad movie not only are the kyoani versions better.. they're MUCH MUCH more better than the toei adaptions. |
| TL & founder of Refrain Subs. Website: Check us out for weekly releases! |
| Theres always the VN at least, which I recommend to anyone who is watching the anime. Its far better in every way and actually has a strong emotional impact which the anime lacks. |
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| Well theres always the chance that the anime doesn't cover the EX routes (Kanata, Sasami and Saya), so you could always read that one and it'll have a lot of brand new stuff. H-scenes too if you're into that thing. |
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RyanSaotome said: H-scenes too if you're into that thing. Key's H-scenes are terrible though. |
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| The writing isn't great and the music for those scenes isn't fitting, but at least the art for the Na-Ga girls is pretty good. |
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| I'm pretty sure that LB sold about the same as Clannad if you count in the console and handheld re-releases. Air beats both of them though. Also those links you posted are just random peoples opinions. I thought the girls routes were great overall, and I shed many tears during them (only Kud and Komari weren't great). And after playing Clannad, Little Busters and Rewrite, Little Busters is easily my favorite of those 3 (never played the earlier ones, just watched the anime). |
RyanSaotomeFeb 10, 2013 9:58 AM
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| Well EX is the entire LB story, just with added h-scenes in each route (they were already hinted at for the most part in the original... anime removed the romance though). And it also adds 3 extra routes along with the established story, to more fully flesh out two important side characters and add a new character. |
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jmal said: RyanSaotome said: H-scenes too if you're into that thing. Hm, probably not for a read like Little Busters. I prefer serious/emotional VNs to have minimal to no sex scenes. When they do occur I'd like them to grow organically from the plot and occur in appropriate spots, rather than sex for the sake of meeting the eroge sex quota (in which case I'd rather it be yuri anyway). So anything more than once a route would probably be pushing it. More often than not I'd probably be fine with all-ages versions. Then you want no part of any Key H-scenes, as they are the very definition of sex scenes for the sake of having sex scenes, Air, Kanon and Little Busters lose absolutely nothing by leaving them out. Unless EX is not a terribly serious story, I mean, in which case it doesn't matter as much. EX is the same story, just with 3 additional routes. |
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zril said: Also, why no romance ? Even MAL states romance in the genres. I know it would probably be bad with such a lame MC but it could hardly be worst anyway... Because in the VN, the protagonist and the heroine(Depending on which heroine you take), it has tons of intimacy between them(I could say most of or all LB heroines were set to high to highest bar of intimacy level unlike Clannad VN where only 3 heroines were set to high to highest bar) on their stories unlike in the anime which it has 0 intimacy(At the moment). Whether this is JC Staff error or something else, obviously and most likely it will take time to see the romance since you know that the protagonist will always end up with the main heroine when that time comes but I doubt it that it would last long. |
TennoujiFeb 10, 2013 4:37 PM
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zril said: Yerld said: zril said: But now I'm reading that LB is the most successful Key VN ever. Where did you read that? Key sales have been in decline ever since the high points of AIR and Clannad, so it's not true that LB is their most successful VN. Critically, the latter was far more controversial upon release, but the negativity has been drowned out by praise over time. You can read some of the older reports and comments on the matter, even amongst English speaking fandom: http://zepy.momotato.com/2007/08/09/little-busters/" target="_blank">http://web.archive.org/web/20071029155106/http://zepy.momotato.com/2007/08/09/little-busters/ http://forums.novelnews.net/showpost.php?p=24642&postcount=68 http://forums.novelnews.net/showpost.php?p=25392&postcount=124 http://forums.novelnews.net/showpost.php?p=25805&postcount=147 http://forums.novelnews.net/showpost.php?p=25832&postcount=149 Back then, there were lots of opinions that Little Busters is an average (if not mediocre) visual novel until Refrain elevates it to something great. While I can't speak for every reader, my suspicion is that for a good many, Refrain is memorable and fulfilling enough to vindicate the earlier faults and make it all worthwhile (as they still build on the bond between reader and characters, preparing the former for the real deal). Thank you, it makes more sense now. I'll have faith and wait till that refrain thing, even though I doubt it being that good given how bad the beginning is. At least Clannad s1 was interesting, tomoya is so awesome whereas riki is so lame. I think most of the difference is here, Kanon and Air had good MCs as well. Also, why no romance ? Even MAL states romance in the genres. I know it would probably be bad with such a lame MC but it could hardly be worst anyway... note : as for where I read that, someone said this and I misinterpreted it a little: Little busters! was the number one top selling game in 2007, and is acclaimed by many as one of the best visual novels in existence. rated 8.9 on vndb (a whole point higher than kanon) I'm trying not to laugh at the whole MC and the boys thing. I believe that key intended to give you that kind of feeling towards Riki -- his feminine/weak qualities actually become a plot point in Refrain. Once Rin's route occurs, the boys will have a more role in the story. Essentially, Refrain is the original Little Busters! route; all the boys will get their chance to shine there. I believe JC Staff cut the romance out of the character routes because they're trying to do a linear route like Clannad. There is a probably for 2 characters to get romance though. Like Sa-chan said, just wait and the romance will be there... eventually, although it will not the amount of romance as Tomoya and Nagisa. |
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| It was an intentional choice by JC Staff, and the right one. It wouldn't make sense in the anime format if Riki was going around dating all the girls at the same time. With the VN, yo have to start a new game once you finish each route so the story doesn't carry over, so it makes more sense to do romance. It coulda done the format like Amagami did I guess, but it wouldn't make sense with the common route thrown in there too. |
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RyanSaotome said: It was an intentional choice by JC Staff, and the right one. It wouldn't make sense in the anime format if Riki was going around dating all the girls at the same time. With the VN, yo have to start a new game once you finish each route so the story doesn't carry over, so it makes more sense to do romance. ... School Days 2 anyone? LOL |
hpulley said: RyanSaotome said: It was an intentional choice by JC Staff, and the right one. It wouldn't make sense in the anime format if Riki was going around dating all the girls at the same time. With the VN, yo have to start a new game once you finish each route so the story doesn't carry over, so it makes more sense to do romance. ... School Days 2 anyone? LOL |
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mitch3315 said: hpulley said: RyanSaotome said: It was an intentional choice by JC Staff, and the right one. It wouldn't make sense in the anime format if Riki was going around dating all the girls at the same time. With the VN, yo have to start a new game once you finish each route so the story doesn't carry over, so it makes more sense to do romance. ... School Days 2 anyone? LOL I don't know if I should laugh or cry. |
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| OMG Yes!!!! Thank you XD. |
| Now that is sigh of relief! |
| 'Once an Arsenal man, always an Arsenal man.' - Bob Wilson. |
RyanSaotome said: It was an intentional choice by JC Staff, and the right one. It wouldn't make sense in the anime format if Riki was going around dating all the girls at the same time. With the VN, yo have to start a new game once you finish each route so the story doesn't carry over, so it makes more sense to do romance. It coulda done the format like Amagami did I guess, but it wouldn't make sense with the common route thrown in there too. Had they done that they could have easily made a school days with friendship and moe...Thank god they didn't... |
| MAL now shows 25 episodes. Does that mean we'll never get this announcement?! Nooo! |
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RyanSaotome said: MAL got it wrong. TV guide magazines in Japan show 26 episodes with the last episode to be aired on Apr 6th. The last episode has Riki suddenly becoming the team leader.MAL now shows 25 episodes. Does that mean we'll never get this announcement?! Nooo! |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| hope they add some romance to it |
| "Currently playing the Game of of Life" Poppin Pills is All We Know - Antidote |
symbv said: RyanSaotome said: MAL got it wrong. TV guide magazines in Japan show 26 episodes with the last episode to be aired on Apr 6th. The last episode has Riki suddenly becoming the team leader.MAL now shows 25 episodes. Does that mean we'll never get this announcement?! Nooo! Yeah I figured, the DVD/BD Vol. 9 has episodes 25-26 as well, and it wouldn't count the OVA as episode 26 since you need to send in the receipts for all 9 volumes to get it. |
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