Sword Art Online is Sexist

whatever123456 said:


But it doesn't.
The anime leaves out a lot of explanation, so people that want to find flaws jump to wrong conclusions.

whatever123456 said:

Full VR that intercepts your brain signals and everything is also far far away, I don't think I will see it in my lifetime.
That claim is stupid anyways, so SAO's flaw is that it's more realistic than S;G?
The government tried to help them and created a department for SAO but couldn't "hack" it or interfere otherwise without risking the deaths of 10000 people.
They also couldn't find Kayaba, so what choice did they have? They even monitored their ingame progress, so the best bet was to wait and sit it out instead of doing something stupid.

Devilry said:
I'm attacking SAO because it is far more sexist than most other anime out there.

Nidhoeggr said:

And letting 4k people dies (2k alone in the first month) is what will make them look like a government that has everything under control? Are you fucking serious? Do you know the Mossad did to former Nazis after the organization was founded? Kayaba would be the number one target of any secret service and would be dead soon enough. It doesn't even have to be Japanese SS because other countries would capture him or trade information for other benefits. The "Kayaba can't be found as SAO is unhackable" thing is the most ridiculous flaw in the whole setting.

AirStyles said:


Nope, it's not time travel. Okabe, is the only individual in the whole show who's conscious is connected much tightly to timelines. When a D-mail is sent, there's no time travel take place, the world just adjust to a different timeline. (Rope, threads, timeline)

What SERN tried to do, was to change the "CURRENT" time line, and forcefully change it from A to B with human transfer. And with it's technology at the time, it's simply impossible. (As the content will be emptied out)

What SERN tried to do, and what Okabe's D-mail does, the difference is.
One is adjusting a thread in a rope, another is to forcefully change rope A to rope B.
Even calling those 2 very different is A BIG BIG BIG understatement.

What makes you think no human died in Okabe's experiment?
For all Okabe knows, he might have died more than 40 times. The only difference is, time leap machine kept his concious by sending it to the past. What happen to his "Real" body remained a mystery.

remember, we are watching the whole thing with Okabe's POV, everyone else's time is still going despite his time leap and D-mail. All those Mayuri that died... They are still dead

Devilry said:
I'm attacking SAO because it is far more sexist than most other anime out there.

Of course, the undisputed king is still School Days. It's quite impossible to top that. But SAO is right up there as well, alongside Mirai Nikki.

Otherwise, your average anime is pretty okay. There's generally a lack of presence of powerful women, and most women are support characters, like Naruto and FMA, but at least they aren't reduced to sex objects.

symbv said:

Such kind of grand event that involves lots of deaths but yet the villain is out of touch is not just restricted to SAO. Again bringing Mossad into the criticism is just weird. It seems you just try to find flaws because you find yourself not enjoying the other parts of the anime.

symbv said:

Now you bring Japan and its national character into criticism of an anime? This is a national prejudice that you are showing man..

ssjokg said:
WTF am I reading?

ssjokg said:

Did people die because of the time travel?No they died because of the changes in the world line not the TRAVEL itself.
Did Okabe greatly change the past?Yes
Did Sern?No.
That is enough.Thats what matters from a "scientific" point of view.

Nidhoeggr said:

Look up their border dispute with China (and Taiwan) over the Senkaku/Diaoyu isles.

Nidhoeggr said:

And I criticize the anime because the whole behaviour of the offline parties in this anime is bullshit. The anime has made some efforts to appear as a realistic setting, yet the whole premise falls flat in the very second you put one second of thought into it in regards to the offline actors.

Animemangamano said:
Asuna has big boobs so I like SAO

AirStyles said:


1. Sern couldn't build a liable time machine, which is why their test subject turned to jelly. (To put it bluntly, it's just a big phone microwave trying to send human back in time instead of messages)

2. No, Okabe didn't change the past, he merely slightly altered the world "thread"

Remember those worldline tube thing that he have?
That shows what world line he's in.
He's in a different place all together, leaving everyone else behind.

He need to pass a whole % just to make it back to timeline B. All the time he's sending D-mail, he's only accomplishing less than 1% of changes, and time leap changes squat. But why is the world looking so different? Butterfly Effect.

Not even changing the whole of Akiba can achieve anything close to 1% .

3. Yes, in world line B, Sern succeeded in making a Dystopia. Using time machines to keep their future in check. The only difference is Daru in B also created a faulty time machine for Suzuha. Which she goes back in time as John Titor. Did she change the past. Yes, but it's not for her and her father to experience the fruit of their success, it's all Okabe.

AirStyles said:

Keep the question coming

lionheart04 said:
How did Okabe acquire the Reading Steiner? What are the requirements to get it? Is reading steiner exclusive to okabe?

ssjokg said:

So he changed world line without changing the past?That doesnt make any sense.It doesnt matter if others knew of the changes.The past DID change.

Why do you bring all the rest in this argument is beyond me.Okabe changed events of the past.We KNOW that he did it.Whether you call it changing world lines or not has nothing to do with it.

ssjokg said:

He was born during a Major Divergence Point.Which "activated' his Reading Steiner.

symbv said:

Precisely, it does not show passivity on Japan side. The fact that it took only the "nationaisation" action to prompt China to react strongly might be argued as a case of Chinese passivity instead.


I don't think it is trying to put it on a setting more realistic than, say, Steins;Gate. If we can tolerate the ridiculousness of the setting in S;G I don't see why we should go particularly harsh at SAO.

ssjokg said:

He was born during a Major Divergence Point.Which "activated' his Reading Steiner.

AirStyles said:


The past did change, but it's close to no changes for a for real change to happen.
He sent 4 D-mail in World Line A. And yet remain right on route for Mayuri's death, and dystopia.
He change the whole of Akiba, but that's not even close to enough.

The big change that he need, is to erase all traces of Daru's hacking. (In otherword, completely conceal themselves form SERN, the superpower that's going to take over the world)

Go look up the episode where Amane Suzuha explain how world line works using ropes.
See the 4 D-mail he sent? They all didn't make even close to enough changes for him to completely change his world line to the other rope. Where it'll lead to WWIII instead of Dystopia.

4 D-mail. Deface the whole of Akiba. And future remained the same.

lionheart04 said:
Wow is that from the VN? I don't remember it being explained in the anime

ssjokg said:

When did I say that his first tries(except with Ferris dmail in her ending) before they hack into Sern, changed world lines?

AirStyles said:


It didn't explain in the anime from my memories.

The closest thing to it was the implication we get when Okabe was sick when he was little, and he felt the sensation of timeline changes. (quite possibly SERN's work)

Can anyone do me a favor and look back to SERN's research?
Check all their documents on "Human is dead" failure, and see if any of them occur roughly 6~14 years ago. in other word... between 1996~2004

My portable fried, along with my steins;gate, so I can't check.



I lost you, please restate your question

ssjokg said:

He was born in December 14th, Gulf War, Collpase of the Soviet Union which is a Major Divergence Point.He headaches were because of the Y2K Divergence point

Nidhoeggr said:

Regarding the Senkaku isles: China's aggressive behaviour to conquer foreign ressources and technologies was and is one of primary fears of Japan. However, while the current approach may lead to secured soil ressources, the isolation policies inherent to the mayority of Japanese enterprises will make them more dependent on China's main market. Additionally, Japanese history and their disaknowledgement of war cimes is fueling the conflict even more.

Nidhoeggr said:

The setting in S;G is both more outworldly (time-machines) and more realistic than in SAO at the same time, because here the extern authorities act in a beliebable way by trying to assasinate our heroes and oppress and conquer vital information. In SAO, most actors are just waaay to passive to ensure that our dear Kirito-kun can have his sugoi adventures and be the hero.

symbv said:

I can agree much of it, but still that does not prove that Japan is being passive in the Senkaku/Diaoyu dispute.


I am not sure S;G is more realistic to be honest, but definitely more outworldly. I can agree that SAO is presenting the MC in too amazing light too. It is just that I do not see how necessarily means "The anime has made some efforts to appear as a realistic setting, yet the whole premise falls flat in the very second you put one second of thought into it in regards to the offline actors."

AirStyles said:


F*CK!

Gulf War... Y2K.. and 2010... how did I forget all this... Suzuha have literally explained them all...

EDIT: YES! I was dead on with my between 1996~2004, something did happen in 2000. though looking at the wrong area.

Devilry said:

Still, there are plenty others. Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is definitely an example with a lead girl who is able to be attractive without losing her sense of autonomy, and while she has feelings for the male character, she doesn't allow them to control her own enthusiasm for her life.

Devilry said:

Beelzebub is another great example with Aoi Kunieda, who has a crush on the male lead, but continues to be enthusiastic about other parts of her life unrelated to him.

Devilry said:

In the romance department we have AnoHana. Despite two female characters being afflicted with unrequited love, it is not afraid to show us that they have their own internal issues as while, and that they can still be attractive in spite of it.

Devilry said:

If you want an example from a harem, we have School Rumble. The women don't just flock to the male lead because he happens to be suave or kind. Their feelings for him develop over and very long period of time, and each other them like him in a very different way. Whatmore, his initial target of affection doesn't ever truly reciprocate his feelings, which is humbling because it shows that the male lead doesn't just 'get' all the girls.

ssjokg said:


Sorry I didnt see your edit with my last post....

In my last post:I never said that his first tries with the dmail changed the world line.Only in Ferris ending in the VN that happens but it isnt what you call a bad or happy ending. Although I am not sure if that counts, the divergence meter showed 0.something before the change and after the change it showed .3211 something.Without the 0 in it,it wasnt a typo.So is it a change in world lines or not.Mayuri doesnt die so maybe yes.

AirStyles said:


I always thought that Mayuri is doomed to be dead within the 0. world line.

Because as long as they didn't pass over to 1. Mayuri's time of death is but altered by days.

The only time Mayuri really survive is when they pass back to 1.???? , which lead to Makise's death instead.

You read the VN right? Is Steins;Gate a world line outside of 1.?

AirStyles said:
One... Hour... I think I'll check it out in tomorrow morning.

bais.

AirStyles said:



Enlighten me. Where's the flaws jump? and which part was deceptive?

I'll answer them for you

EDIT: Come on, ask me. I'm waiting

@Nidhogge, if you don't mind, I like to answer Steins;Gate's question. You can focus on other things like sexism and logic in SAO instead

Nidhoeggr said:


At least it is possible unlike time machines, which sets SAO in a much harder position to maintain the suspension of disbelief. And yes, that can be a problem if the series isn't consistent within itself, like so many other people already mentioned because people WILL compare it reality more than a setup that is more outworldly. If SAO would ditch the whole MMO aspect and the story would only revolve around the hero Kirito who saves his wife Asuna while battling evil schemers and monsters, people would still criticize some deus ex machina devices, but stuff like the "where did they treat the bodies", etc. would fall flat. The realism aspect and the inconsistent way it is handled is big point of criticism the way it stands right now.


And letting 4k people die (2k alone in the first month) is what will make them look like a government that has everything under control? Are you fucking serious? Do you know the Mossad did to former Nazis after the organization was founded? Kayaba would be the number one target of any secret service and would be dead soon enough. It doesn't even have to be Japanese SS because other countries would capture him or trade information for other benefits. The "Kayaba can't be found as SAO is unhackable" thing is the most ridiculous flaw in the whole setting.

whatever123456 said:


It took the US quite some time to find Osama, so why should they find him in a short time especially if he planned it out before? It's the premise, it doesn't have anything to do with suspension of disbelief.

Nidhoeggr said:


Osama wasn't a connected player in the exact game he designed and I'm sure the infrasturcture to support SAO is soemthing that can be located. They can locate most people who use the Nervegear and bring them into hospitals but they can't find the admin who is logged in into the same game with the same technology?

whatever123456 said:

Kayaba sent them the location of every player connected to SAO to get them to hospitals.

Nidhoeggr said:


And we're once again back at the "Kayaba has h4x encryption" argument. Also, what about the money neccessary to maintain such a gigantic project. Of course the government would try to freeze his acocunts as well as trying to maintain the servers, but money can be tracked as well. And I have problems believing that Kayaba can live a life without any money.

Nidhoeggr said:


And we're once again back at the "Kayaba has h4x encryption" argument. Also, what about the money neccessary to maintain such a gigantic project. Of course the government would try to freeze his acocunts as well as trying to maintain the servers, but money can be tracked as well. And I have problems believing that Kayaba can live a life without any money.

ssjokg said:
He had an assistant.(Not Sugou)

whatever123456 said:


What? Having someone send them an email can be traced to Kayaba how?
He doesn't need money while living in some cabin in the woods.
That's what I meant. Can't you at least think a bit before you ask such questions? Kayaba created a whole VR game and planned this for years in advance and you need to be told specifically that he made sure to have enough food to survive some time without needing to go shopping every week?

Nidhoeggr said:


Who can't be tracked?



1) I has to be in a place where he can access his creation 24/7.
2) He most likely hasn't left Japan.
3) There are always traces left behind.

Is it really so hard to believe that a government would try to close this case as soon as possible when the lives of ten fucking thousand people are threatened?

1) I has to be in a place where he can access his creation 24/7.
2) He most likely hasn't left Japan.

3) There are always traces left behind.

Nidhoeggr said:
I am not an expert, but I do believe that administrator accounts stick out of the data stream a bit and login data is stored somewhere more people than just a single individual can access. Also, there are legal issues that require you to give information about nearly everything. Even Kayaba had to follow these laws at first, otherwise he wouldn't be able to release a game. And the assistant surely has some information regarding Kayaba's personal status; she should be easy to find as well. As I said, it is very hard to not track a person in a developed society that has security instruments installed everywhere and the capacity to monitor each citizen's life effortlessly. ESPECIALLY with the internet being as connected with the real world as it is in SAO.

And well, I would say it sucks to be in your country then ssjokg.

whatever123456 said:

This isn't CSI.

ssjokg said:

Yeah it sucks pretty bad.

For games at least I never give my real personal info.It didnt stop me from playing

Nidhoeggr said:


No, but it still doesn't make any kind of sense. He isn't a fucking terrorist leader that doesn't use modern communication channels, hides in Afghanistan/Jemen/another country with nearly no methods of tracking people and has a gigantic network of supporters that provide him with anything he needs. He is a single programmer with a single assistant. And he still maintains contact with his creation that is closely mirrored by a government that has access to several secret services, police forces, hackers, etc.



I know what you mean, but it's getting more and more impossible to hide your personal information. Which makes the premise of SAO all the more unbelievable because well, a person does not vanish into thin air without leaving something of interest behind.

ssjokg said:

.Although I have yet to play a game where I dint get away with false info.

SAO was written in 2002.It is logical for the writer to think game companies wont become such a pain in the ass for no fucking reason(at least for me there is no reason giving personal info to play a fucking game).I mean who would have thought back then that game developers would make games incomplete just to make you buy DLCs?From 2002 to 2012 a lot of changes were made in the videogaming industry.