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Oct 21, 2012 9:39 PM
#81
Leon-Gun said: completely flipped the bird to Kiritsugu's sound novel theme "Emiya - Time Alter version" and just gave him a previously used track. To be perfectly honest, I wasn't exactly that fond of "Emiya - Time Alter ver." (the piano segments were the only note-worthy parts) so its removal wasn't that much of an issue for me. |
ronriOct 21, 2012 9:44 PM
Oct 21, 2012 10:15 PM
#82
ronri said: Leon-Gun said: completely flipped the bird to Kiritsugu's sound novel theme "Emiya - Time Alter version" and just gave him a previously used track. To be perfectly honest, I wasn't exactly that fond of "Emiya - Time Alter ver." (the piano segments were the only note-worthy parts) so its removal wasn't that much of an issue for me. For me too. The Battle is to the Strong is way better. |
Oct 22, 2012 2:05 AM
#83
Isnt it sad for Bazett leaving her out like this? I saw Caren one page back so what happened to Bazett? |
Oct 22, 2012 7:14 AM
#84
ssjokg said: Isnt it sad for Bazett leaving her out like this? I saw Caren one page back so what happened to Bazett? I don't sexualize the waifu of a bro-Lancer. |
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Oct 22, 2012 7:38 AM
#85
BloodRequiem said: ssjokg said: Isnt it sad for Bazett leaving her out like this? I saw Caren one page back so what happened to Bazett? I don't sexualize the waifu of a bro-Lancer. I can accept that.... I still dont understand why people fall for Saber in a suit ,when we already had Bazett for that. Saber: |
Oct 22, 2012 11:10 AM
#86
ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: ssjokg said: Isnt it sad for Bazett leaving her out like this? I saw Caren one page back so what happened to Bazett? I don't sexualize the waifu of a bro-Lancer. I can accept that.... I still dont understand why people fall for Saber in a suit ,when we already had Bazett for that. Saber: I don't fall for saber! It's more that I like her story in the fateverse than other females and the Arthur legend in general. |
Oct 22, 2012 11:20 AM
#87
sagdashin said: ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: ssjokg said: Isnt it sad for Bazett leaving her out like this? I saw Caren one page back so what happened to Bazett? I don't sexualize the waifu of a bro-Lancer. I can accept that.... I still dont understand why people fall for Saber in a suit ,when we already had Bazett for that. Saber: I don't fall for saber! It's more that I like her story in the fateverse than other females and the Arthur legend in general. That's ok. But "oh my god Saber is magnificent..." is getting in my nerves. Why? Because even almost every char in Fate/ that looks upon her thinks the same thing one way or another.Shirou fell in love(luckily I could change that later),Rin turned lesbian the moment she saw her(in a moment where she could actually die),Medea no comment,Gill de Rais went into hyper crazy mode,Lancelot went mad because of her(for other reasons than love),Gil thinks she is worthy although in a weird way...... Anime only fans worship her.... I mean, really? While her story/background is interesting she as a char isnt that great. |
Oct 22, 2012 11:58 AM
#88
People just find her attractive because of her moe-ness. She is blonde with an ahoge, 155cm tall which is really petite (correct me if I'm wrong) and is mother fucking King Arthur. Nasu made a good choice to make King Arthur a female moe blob, stupid fans just go crazy over her despite her having so much flaws in her personality and overall bland character. |
Oct 22, 2012 12:00 PM
#89
If you like more romantic shows then I guess I can understand. Fate/Zero's better suited for those that want the adventure and action. |
Oct 22, 2012 12:16 PM
#90
Necro-sama said: People just find her attractive because of her moe-ness. She is blonde with an ahoge, 155cm tall which is really petite (correct me if I'm wrong) and is mother fucking King Arthur. Nasu made a good choice to make King Arthur a female moe blob, stupid fans just go crazy over her despite her having so much flaws in her personality and overall bland character. moe levels for any reason. Ilya>.....>Taiga>....>Saber and just by trying to be a "serious" King Arthur all the time she loses many moe points. CP's Saber IS moe but the normal one...I can hardly she her being moe. |
Oct 22, 2012 12:21 PM
#91
ssjokg said: sagdashin said: ssjokg said: BloodRequiem said: ssjokg said: Isnt it sad for Bazett leaving her out like this? I saw Caren one page back so what happened to Bazett? I don't sexualize the waifu of a bro-Lancer. I can accept that.... I still dont understand why people fall for Saber in a suit ,when we already had Bazett for that. Saber: I don't fall for saber! It's more that I like her story in the fateverse than other females and the Arthur legend in general. That's ok. But "oh my god Saber is magnificent..." is getting in my nerves. Why? Because even almost every char in Fate/ that looks upon her thinks the same thing one way or another.Shirou fell in love(luckily I could change that later),Rin turned lesbian the moment she saw her(in a moment where she could actually die),Medea no comment,Gill de Rais went into hyper crazy mode,Lancelot went mad because of her(for other reasons than love),Gil thinks she is worthy although in a weird way...... Anime only fans worship her.... I mean, really? While her story/background is interesting she as a char isnt that great. Even VN fans worship her. She won 1st on the type moon popularity poll, and she beat Ryougi, which I find unbelievable. And the dumbest thing I've heard people say is, "Saber is the best and only good character in the Fate verse". I actually like Saber but some of her fans piss me off, they think they're the best just because Saber's the most popular and the face of type moon. |
Oct 22, 2012 12:28 PM
#92
Ilya > Saber in terms of moe is that even a question? |
Oct 22, 2012 12:30 PM
#93
Oct 22, 2012 12:34 PM
#94
Necro-sama said: Only in anime, moe King arthur! I don't even remember this scene in the game though. Anyways she is quite out of character in CP anyways since it's a parody. Some of the fans are just too delusional to see that Saber is such a shitty character. Isn't it the fans that anger you? She's not a shitty character to be honest. It's like God, I don't have problems with him, but the followers are a bitch. When I think of saber I think of a solitary life and agony and a delusional wish. Just a sad story in general. There's also those who ignore that, and focus on the fanservice? like the pic you linked, which I think is the majority. Though I only take it with a smile, not caring too much |
sagdashinOct 22, 2012 12:38 PM
Oct 22, 2012 12:37 PM
#95
nope it isn't weird. i love both fate stay night and fate zero, they are perfect in my opinion. |
Oct 22, 2012 12:47 PM
#96
sagdashin said: Necro-sama said: Only in anime, moe King arthur! I don't even remember this scene in the game though. Anyways she is quite out of character in CP anyways since it's a parody. Some of the fans are just too delusional to see that Saber is such a shitty character. Isn't it the fans that anger you? She's not a shitty character to be honest. It's like God, I don't have problems with him, but the followers are a bitch. When I think of saber I think of a solitary life and agony and a delusional wish. Just a sad story in general. There's also those who ignore that, and focus on the fanservice? like the pic you linked, which I think is the majority. Though I only take it with a smile, not caring too much Looks like you're someone who actually likes the real Saber. There is no way in hell Saber is a shitty character. Even the King of heroes was interested in her that alone makes her good. |
Oct 22, 2012 12:47 PM
#97
sagdashin said: Necro-sama said: Only in anime, moe King arthur! I don't even remember this scene in the game though. Anyways she is quite out of character in CP anyways since it's a parody. Some of the fans are just too delusional to see that Saber is such a shitty character. Isn't it the fans that anger you? She's not a shitty character to be honest. It's like God, I don't have problems with him, but the followers are a bitch. When I think of saber I think of a solitary life and agony and a delusional wish. Just a sad story in general. There's also those who ignore that, and focus on the fanservice? like the pic you linked, which I think is the majority. Though I only take it with a smile, not caring too much Haha true, I just exaggerated it too much. I find her ideals and stubborn character really annoying though. She kept revolving around her own ideals and refuse to believe otherwise which is why I feel that she is a really bland character in general. We're not even talking about Shirou here. The guy who is made of swords and equipped with plot armour. |
Oct 22, 2012 12:48 PM
#98
Actually, it wasn't even Nasu's idea to make Saber into a moe blob. Heck, he doesn't even write her as a moe blob all that much. The original story Nasu wanted to do was King Arthur as a main. It was Takeuchi's idea to turn her into a female, under the pretense that having an eroge where the player was controlling a female protagonist (and romancing a guy) wouldn't sell. Basically, Nasu was forced to make Arthur a girl because VN players are perverts. |
Oct 22, 2012 12:50 PM
#99
^ I dont have a problem with saber being a girl, she's just really annoying |
Oct 22, 2012 2:24 PM
#100
Saber's background isnt bad .It's as Necro-sama said. How stubborn she was makes her less interesting,for me, than the rest of the characters(except Shinji,he just exists to be hated).If she could at least think what her ideals mean a little bit more and if she didnt need a teen to fall in love with in order to suddenly change her wish(come on, it wasnt the only Holy Grail in existence),maybe she wouldnt be such a bad char for me. |
Oct 22, 2012 3:29 PM
#101
ssjokg said: Necro-sama said: People just find her attractive because of her moe-ness. She is blonde with an ahoge, 155cm tall which is really petite (correct me if I'm wrong) and is mother fucking King Arthur. Nasu made a good choice to make King Arthur a female moe blob, stupid fans just go crazy over her despite her having so much flaws in her personality and overall bland character. moe levels for any reason. Ilya>.....>Taiga>....>Saber and just by trying to be a "serious" King Arthur all the time she loses many moe points. CP's Saber IS moe but the normal one...I can hardly she her being moe. Moe chart: Moemine Kirei=Illya>Zecchan>Caster (Medea)>Waver>Kuuuuuuruuuu>Zouken's worms>Saber Fixed that for you. |
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Oct 22, 2012 3:34 PM
#102
ssjokg said: Saber's background isnt bad .It's as Necro-sama said. How stubborn she was makes her less interesting,for me, than the rest of the characters(except Shinji,he just exists to be hated).If she could at least think what her ideals mean a little bit more and if she didnt need a teen to fall in love with in order to suddenly change her wish(come on, it wasnt the only Holy Grail in existence),maybe she wouldnt be such a bad char for me. I just think the whole thing about Saber is unrealistic. She is a "man" who ruled as a king for many many years and she just falls for a ginger? (Eroge writing yes I know) I mean what is Shirou's merit? There are better looking guys than him, richer guys than him, and she didn't see him jump that damn bar and didn't get to experience his kindness for years like Sakura did. |
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Oct 22, 2012 3:56 PM
#103
@BloodRequiem Screw Saber... What I care about now is WTF is that Moemine Kirei?CP? |
Oct 22, 2012 4:26 PM
#104
BloodRequiem said: It feels to me like Nasu just kinda didn't know how to write the pairing after the genderswap and just winged it. In essence he wrote UBW and Heaven's Feel far FAR better. The relationship between Sakura and Shirou is far more believable, and even Rin's crush on Shirou was understandable once you know the backstory behind it.ssjokg said: Saber's background isnt bad .It's as Necro-sama said. How stubborn she was makes her less interesting,for me, than the rest of the characters(except Shinji,he just exists to be hated).If she could at least think what her ideals mean a little bit more and if she didnt need a teen to fall in love with in order to suddenly change her wish(come on, it wasnt the only Holy Grail in existence),maybe she wouldnt be such a bad char for me. I just think the whole thing about Saber is unrealistic. She is a "man" who ruled as a king for many many years and she just falls for a ginger? (Eroge writing yes I know) I mean what is Shirou's merit? There are better looking guys than him, richer guys than him, and she didn't see him jump that damn bar and didn't get to experience his kindness for years like Sakura did. It seems stupid at first because you think she had never known him before, but you do learn later that Rin actually semi-stalked him for years and envied him a little and she never made a move because of Sakura. |
Oct 22, 2012 4:31 PM
#105
Leon-Gun said: BloodRequiem said: It feels to me like Nasu just kinda didn't know how to write the pairing after the genderswap and just winged it. In essence he wrote UBW and Heaven's Feel far FAR better. The relationship between Sakura and Shirou is far more believable, and even Rin's crush on Shirou was understandable once you know the backstory behind it.ssjokg said: Saber's background isnt bad .It's as Necro-sama said. How stubborn she was makes her less interesting,for me, than the rest of the characters(except Shinji,he just exists to be hated).If she could at least think what her ideals mean a little bit more and if she didnt need a teen to fall in love with in order to suddenly change her wish(come on, it wasnt the only Holy Grail in existence),maybe she wouldnt be such a bad char for me. I just think the whole thing about Saber is unrealistic. She is a "man" who ruled as a king for many many years and she just falls for a ginger? (Eroge writing yes I know) I mean what is Shirou's merit? There are better looking guys than him, richer guys than him, and she didn't see him jump that damn bar and didn't get to experience his kindness for years like Sakura did. It seems stupid at first because you think she had never known him before, but you do learn later that Rin actually semi-stalked him for years and envied him a little and she never made a move because of Sakura. That was only thing she did for her all these years.We know she cant save her but she could have tried to get closer to her |
Oct 22, 2012 6:05 PM
#106
Oct 22, 2012 6:50 PM
#107
sagdashin said: When I think of saber I think of a solitary life and agony and a delusional wish. Just a sad story in general. This is pretty much why Saber is appealing to me (in Fate/Zero). But then this leads me to another point: ssjokg said: If she could at least think what her ideals mean a little bit more and if she didnt need a teen to fall in love with in order to suddenly change her wish(come on, it wasnt the only Holy Grail in existence),maybe she wouldnt be such a bad char for me. Yup. This is EXACTLY why I don't like her characterization in F/SN. For all the glorious portrayal she got in F/Z, everything leads back to F/SN, and it ain't pretty. I'll be one to admit that mine is a sad existence. I really grew to like Saber in F/Z, her stubbornness made sense and it was actually portrayed very beautifully, but how F/SN deals with it is so headache-inducing I almost wish I didn't end up liking her in F/Z at all. Leon-Gun said: It feels to me like Nasu just kinda didn't know how to write the pairing after the genderswap and just winged it. In essence he wrote UBW and Heaven's Feel far FAR better. What makes it even worse is that despite F/Z improving on that (having been written much later of course), inevitably it still leads back to F/SN. I truly wish that Saber's character was written starting from F/Z and then to F/SN, and not the other way around but alas this isn't so. It's like F/Z was the only time that we got a glimpse of what-could-have-been now that the Fate franchise is moving beyond its eroge roots (or at least I'd like to think so). This is also why I prefer Heaven's Feel. Sakura's character (and her placement within the story in context of the whole series) makes more sense as an actual love interest for Shirou, whereas Saber's romance just felt tacked on. |
ronriOct 22, 2012 7:06 PM
Oct 22, 2012 10:04 PM
#108
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Oct 22, 2012 10:19 PM
#109
ssjokg said: Oh I agree, she fucking sucks for holding on to her magi pride.Leon-Gun said: BloodRequiem said: It feels to me like Nasu just kinda didn't know how to write the pairing after the genderswap and just winged it. In essence he wrote UBW and Heaven's Feel far FAR better. The relationship between Sakura and Shirou is far more believable, and even Rin's crush on Shirou was understandable once you know the backstory behind it.ssjokg said: Saber's background isnt bad .It's as Necro-sama said. How stubborn she was makes her less interesting,for me, than the rest of the characters(except Shinji,he just exists to be hated).If she could at least think what her ideals mean a little bit more and if she didnt need a teen to fall in love with in order to suddenly change her wish(come on, it wasnt the only Holy Grail in existence),maybe she wouldnt be such a bad char for me. I just think the whole thing about Saber is unrealistic. She is a "man" who ruled as a king for many many years and she just falls for a ginger? (Eroge writing yes I know) I mean what is Shirou's merit? There are better looking guys than him, richer guys than him, and she didn't see him jump that damn bar and didn't get to experience his kindness for years like Sakura did. It seems stupid at first because you think she had never known him before, but you do learn later that Rin actually semi-stalked him for years and envied him a little and she never made a move because of Sakura. That was only thing she did for her all these years.We know she cant save her but she could have tried to get closer to her Oh, I might add that it's so much effing bullshit how Zero protrays Sakura at the very end but I'm so not surprised either. It's Urobuchi after all. |
Oct 22, 2012 11:35 PM
#110
Leon-Gun said: Oh, I might add that it's so much effing bullshit how Zero protrays Sakura at the very end but I'm so not surprised either. It's Urobuchi after all. I noticed a lot of people complaining about this but having checked the LN (and the anime) I thought it wasn't that bad or far-fetched. Sure you can take it as her being shown as cold and heartless (adding fuel to the fire for the Sakura-haterz). As for me, I simply took it in a more depressing/twisted light, with that segment acting as the end-point of her being brainwashed by Zouken until F/SN. Also I thought that adding that segment as the end of Kariya's character arc definitely worked in tying up his story. |
Oct 22, 2012 11:58 PM
#111
BloodRequiem said: Oh god why. The real question is what do these girls see in Shirou? Being a moralfag does not make him attractive at all. |
Oct 23, 2012 1:24 AM
#112
Leon-Gun said: ssjokg said: Oh I agree, she fucking sucks for holding on to her magi pride.Leon-Gun said: BloodRequiem said: It feels to me like Nasu just kinda didn't know how to write the pairing after the genderswap and just winged it. In essence he wrote UBW and Heaven's Feel far FAR better. The relationship between Sakura and Shirou is far more believable, and even Rin's crush on Shirou was understandable once you know the backstory behind it.ssjokg said: Saber's background isnt bad .It's as Necro-sama said. How stubborn she was makes her less interesting,for me, than the rest of the characters(except Shinji,he just exists to be hated).If she could at least think what her ideals mean a little bit more and if she didnt need a teen to fall in love with in order to suddenly change her wish(come on, it wasnt the only Holy Grail in existence),maybe she wouldnt be such a bad char for me. I just think the whole thing about Saber is unrealistic. She is a "man" who ruled as a king for many many years and she just falls for a ginger? (Eroge writing yes I know) I mean what is Shirou's merit? There are better looking guys than him, richer guys than him, and she didn't see him jump that damn bar and didn't get to experience his kindness for years like Sakura did. It seems stupid at first because you think she had never known him before, but you do learn later that Rin actually semi-stalked him for years and envied him a little and she never made a move because of Sakura. That was only thing she did for her all these years.We know she cant save her but she could have tried to get closer to her Oh, I might add that it's so much effing bullshit how Zero protrays Sakura at the very end but I'm so not surprised either. It's Urobuchi after all. I had no problem with the LN.Did Urobuchi ask for the change in the anime? Anyway,I still dont understand how jumping a bar again and again would change something for someone like Sakura.I mean,if I recall correctly the first times he tried she was pleased with him failing over and over again and then she suddenly started to like him for not giving up?Well...ok...not that I havent see worse romantic developments... BloodRequiem said: WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?!?! If I didnt know him I may had fallen for the trap in 1:30. |
Oct 23, 2012 1:41 AM
#113
ssjokg said: Leon-Gun said: ssjokg said: Oh I agree, she fucking sucks for holding on to her magi pride.Leon-Gun said: BloodRequiem said: It feels to me like Nasu just kinda didn't know how to write the pairing after the genderswap and just winged it. In essence he wrote UBW and Heaven's Feel far FAR better. The relationship between Sakura and Shirou is far more believable, and even Rin's crush on Shirou was understandable once you know the backstory behind it.ssjokg said: Saber's background isnt bad .It's as Necro-sama said. How stubborn she was makes her less interesting,for me, than the rest of the characters(except Shinji,he just exists to be hated).If she could at least think what her ideals mean a little bit more and if she didnt need a teen to fall in love with in order to suddenly change her wish(come on, it wasnt the only Holy Grail in existence),maybe she wouldnt be such a bad char for me. I just think the whole thing about Saber is unrealistic. She is a "man" who ruled as a king for many many years and she just falls for a ginger? (Eroge writing yes I know) I mean what is Shirou's merit? There are better looking guys than him, richer guys than him, and she didn't see him jump that damn bar and didn't get to experience his kindness for years like Sakura did. It seems stupid at first because you think she had never known him before, but you do learn later that Rin actually semi-stalked him for years and envied him a little and she never made a move because of Sakura. That was only thing she did for her all these years.We know she cant save her but she could have tried to get closer to her Oh, I might add that it's so much effing bullshit how Zero protrays Sakura at the very end but I'm so not surprised either. It's Urobuchi after all. I had no problem with the LN.Did Urobuchi ask for the change in the anime? Anyway,I still dont understand how jumping a bar again and again would change something for someone like Sakura.I mean,if I recall correctly the first times he tried she was pleased with him failing over and over again and then she suddenly started to like him for not giving up?Well...ok...not that I havent see worse romantic developments... It's more like seeing him trying over and over again gave her the motivation to keep on going. She viewed him as a hero of sorts and eventually that kind of worship mentality turned into love. It's also the reason why Sakura felt really bad that Shirou had to "give up" his ideals for her because she's seeing that side of him die. Then again, it could be us just putting too much thought into this and Nasu still can't into romance and sex. |
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Oct 23, 2012 1:43 AM
#114
Oct 23, 2012 1:46 AM
#115
Necro-sama said: The real question is what do these girls see in Shirou? Being a moralfag does not make him attractive at all. For whatever reason Sakura started to talk to him,later she practically became his wife with the amount of time she spent at his home.So not difficult to develop some feelings for him. Rin...I dont think Rin is the kind of girl that cares much about the "quality" of her boyfriend.While watching over Sakura she also started to like him.Note that she actually fell in love with him in UBW.When she found him dying after Lancer pierced him the first though that come to her was Sakura crying. Add to all that, that he saves them a few times and you get why. Saber...well he was her sheath...That was the dumpest thing I read in FSN.Even counting the sex scenes. @BloodRequiem knowing why she liked the fact that he wasnt giving up,and why it gave her the will to keep going doesnt make it more realistic. |
ssjokgOct 23, 2012 1:50 AM
Oct 23, 2012 1:49 AM
#116
ssjokg said: Necro-sama said: The real question is what do these girls see in Shirou? Being a moralfag does not make him attractive at all. For whatever reason Sakura started to talk to him,later she practically became his wife with the amount of time she spent at his home.So not difficult to develop some feelings for him. Rin...I dont think Rin is the kind of girl that cares much about the "quality" of her boyfriend.While watching over Sakura she also started to like him.Note that she actually fell in love with him in UBW.When she found him dying after Lancer pierced him the first though that come to her was Sakura crying. Add to all that, that he saves them a few times and you get why. Saber...well he was her sheath...That was the dumpest thing I read in FSN.Even counting the sex scenes. I'm pretty sure she ended up becoming his sheath if you know what I mean... |
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Oct 23, 2012 9:53 AM
#117
just got to day 15 of heavens feel and im really pissed at the three options they give me 1. bring ilya back 2. bring ilya back 3. bring ilya back what the fuck was the point of that :/ |
Oct 23, 2012 9:54 AM
#118
JavierR said: just got to day 15 of heavens feel and im really pissed at the three options they give me 1. bring ilya back 2. bring ilya back 3. bring ilya back what the fuck was the point of that :/ it's made like that so that you cant fuck up... oh and you are so close to Shirou's most badass moment |
Oct 23, 2012 10:30 AM
#119
JavierR said: just got to day 15 of heavens feel and im really pissed at the three options they give me 1. bring ilya back 2. bring ilya back 3. bring ilya back what the fuck was the point of that :/ The point of that is to Bring Illya back Why wouldn't you? |
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Oct 23, 2012 10:35 AM
#120
ssjokg said: JavierR said: just got to day 15 of heavens feel and im really pissed at the three options they give me 1. bring ilya back 2. bring ilya back 3. bring ilya back what the fuck was the point of that :/ it's made like that so that you cant fuck up... oh and you are so close to Shirou's most badass moment Holy badass, that almost made up for all of shirous faggot moments. I still can't bring myself to like him after that but still it was pretty epic. BloodRequiem said: JavierR said: just got to day 15 of heavens feel and im really pissed at the three options they give me 1. bring ilya back 2. bring ilya back 3. bring ilya back what the fuck was the point of that :/ The point of that is to Bring Illya back Why wouldn't you? I mean they didn't have to make it 3 separate options though. I wanted to bring ilya back |
Oct 23, 2012 5:24 PM
#121
^I think that was a mistake of Type-Moon. *shrug* Anyway, the reason I hated the Sakura ending scene with Kariya wasn't because it was unreasonable ever, as we see later that she did acted that way... ...during her later years. When Sakura met Shirou she originally looked at his positive attitude with hate and wanted him to fail but then she was baffled at how he wouldn't give up no matter how much he failed. But this event was a few years after she had begun her training. By this stage Sakura was completely subservient to Byakuya and Zouken, and pretty sure Zouken had already ordered Shinji was already having his slimy hands all over her too. If you guys remember the outbursts she has with Rin during their fight at the end of Heaven's Feel she basically says she was still hoping to be rescued at first. It had only been a year by the point Kariya died, she wouldn't had been broken yet. If anything, I'd expect kariya's death to be the breaking point. What was the point of adding her being dismissal of his death? It basically dismisses Sakura as a weak-willed woman, which she hardly was (in one bad end Rin is subjected to the same treatment Sakura was... Rin breaks in one night, while Sakura survived 11 years... you be the judge of who's will is supposed to be stronger). That's what I meant by the comment that's this is common for Gen. In order to further devaluate kariya's sacrifice he exploits Sakura's character and twists it, further contradicting dialogue of the original VN. |
Oct 23, 2012 5:58 PM
#122
Leon-Gun said: ^I think that was a mistake of Type-Moon. *shrug* Anyway, the reason I hated the Sakura ending scene with Kariya wasn't because it was unreasonable ever, as we see later that she did acted that way... ...during her later years. When Sakura met Shirou she originally looked at his positive attitude with hate and wanted him to fail but then she was baffled at how he wouldn't give up no matter how much he failed. But this event was a few years after she had begun her training. By this stage Sakura was completely subservient to Byakuya and Zouken, and pretty sure Zouken had already ordered Shinji was already having his slimy hands all over her too. If you guys remember the outbursts she has with Rin during their fight at the end of Heaven's Feel she basically says she was still hoping to be rescued at first. It had only been a year by the point Kariya died, she wouldn't had been broken yet. If anything, I'd expect kariya's death to be the breaking point. What was the point of adding her being dismissal of his death? It basically dismisses Sakura as a weak-willed woman, which she hardly was (in one bad end Rin is subjected to the same treatment Sakura was... Rin breaks in one night, while Sakura survived 11 years... you be the judge of who's will is supposed to be stronger). That's what I meant by the comment that's this is common for Gen. In order to further devaluate kariya's sacrifice he exploits Sakura's character and twists it, further contradicting dialogue of the original VN. I dont think that Gen made her look that weak willed.She just gives up resisting(if she ever was after the first nights) after Kariya's death.She continues to endure Zouken and Byakuya and later Shinji without trying to escape etc.Kariya was like family to her and ended up like this."what would happen to the others if I disobey grandfather?" could be one of her thoughts(maybe I am overthinking this.) She did broke down after his death if you think of it as giving up on resisting and becoming ill willed(original feelings for Shirou's determination to jump over the fucking bar). |
Oct 23, 2012 6:16 PM
#123
Leon-Gun said: If anything, I'd expect kariya's death to be the breaking point. What was the point of adding her being dismissal of his death? It basically dismisses Sakura as a weak-willed woman, which she hardly was (in one bad end Rin is subjected to the same treatment Sakura was... Rin breaks in one night, while Sakura survived 11 years... you be the judge of who's will is supposed to be stronger). That's what I meant by the comment that's this is common for Gen. In order to further devaluate kariya's sacrifice he exploits Sakura's character and twists it, further contradicting dialogue of the original VN. Weak-willed? I think that's a bit too much in terms of expectations especially considering she was still fairly young. And even then, the desire of being saved isn't always going to be overt especially when they're really young (something I learned from actual cases of conditioned sexual abuse of children). If anything, it's only during a child's later years of maturation that they learn to understand their feelings more and become self-aware of what they actually felt back when they were first abused (which makes sense if we factor in how F/SN deals with it). Taking that into consideration, I fail to see anything wrong with what Urobochi did with the final segment between Sakura and Kariya, as most children barely even understand or at least fully grasp what they're actually going through in regards to such cases. I know it seems like a direct contradiction and I understand why you feel that way, but I find it natural that by experiencing those kinds of twisted things, the idea of having such pent-up feelings becoming more overt during a victim's later years (rather than the other way around) actually makes more sense. Not so much trying to argue that your point is completely wrong, but that's personally how I view Sakura's transitioning from F/Z to F/SN. |
ronriOct 23, 2012 6:24 PM
Oct 24, 2012 8:33 AM
#124
Did Sakura forget about Kariya, i'm just wondering why is he never mentioned at all after the events of fate/zero |
Oct 24, 2012 8:47 AM
#125
JavierR said: Did Sakura forget about Kariya, i'm just wondering why is he never mentioned at all after the events of fate/zero That or either he's just not mentioned due to the poor circumstances of how he fell apart (almost everyone that knew him ended up either hating or forgetting about him and he pretty much died with barely anyone being aware of his death). Of course there's also the obvious answer that F/SN was simply made first and F/Z was made later, and that Kariya was created as a new character that acts as a (sort of) polar opposite to Tokiomi on Sakura's behalf, creating new and interesting dynamic behind the Matou/Tohsaka family affair. |
Oct 29, 2012 6:37 AM
#126
ronri said: Basically the last part. Kariya was a new character Gen created for Fate/Zero. Then again, you can chalk it up to her not becoming attached to others due to her circumnstances hence "forgetting about the traitor". JavierR said: Did Sakura forget about Kariya, i'm just wondering why is he never mentioned at all after the events of fate/zero That or either he's just not mentioned due to the poor circumstances of how he fell apart (almost everyone that knew him ended up either hating or forgetting about him and he pretty much died with barely anyone being aware of his death). Of course there's also the obvious answer that F/SN was simply made first and F/Z was made later, and that Kariya was created as a new character that acts as a (sort of) polar opposite to Tokiomi on Sakura's behalf, creating new and interesting dynamic behind the Matou/Tohsaka family affair. The only relations in Fate/Zero that already existed were things like Kiritsugu being Ilya's father, Saber's Master and saving Shirou; also Tokiomi was already conceptualized, including the details like him giving Sakura away, being Kirei's teacher in the magical arts as well as how exactly he died. I's never actually explictly stated but due to how Kirei recalls his actions in the Fourth War, I believe Nasu also came up with Gil being Tokiomi's servant fist. Kirei says he was the first Master to lose, but we later learn he killed Tokiomi, a Master, and that he was Gil''s Master... the only reason to make sense of this and give him motivation to kill Tokiomi is if he intended to steal Tokiomi's servant...as we were shown in Zero. Pretty much, Kirei's entire plot already existed when Stay Night was made. Everything not involving Kirei, Kiritsugu or Tokiomi is brand new though. |
Leon-GunOct 29, 2012 6:47 AM
Oct 30, 2012 11:45 AM
#127
Leon-Gun said: Everything not involving Kirei, Kiritsugu or Tokiomi is brand new though. Although there are some trivial things in F/Z that it was recalled in F/SN. Even in F/HA. For example is Shirou and Saber's date talking about the destroyed ship. I think that's somewhat related to Saber vs Caster fight in the 4th war. |
Oct 30, 2012 2:40 PM
#128
Sa-chan_ said: Leon-Gun said: Everything not involving Kirei, Kiritsugu or Tokiomi is brand new though. Although there are some trivial things in F/Z that it was recalled in F/SN. Even in F/HA. For example is Shirou and Saber's date talking about the destroyed ship. I think that's somewhat related to Saber vs Caster fight in the 4th war. Also Saber seemed to hate squids or octopus for some reason.When Shirou wanted to make one of the two for dinner/lunch she was like "you eat that thing?" |
Oct 30, 2012 8:21 PM
#129
ssjokg said: Yeah though I'm pretty sure the details were made up on the spot since she made it sound like the battle had been 1 on 1 while Zero used it's creative license to make it an all out brawl.Sa-chan_ said: Leon-Gun said: Everything not involving Kirei, Kiritsugu or Tokiomi is brand new though. Although there are some trivial things in F/Z that it was recalled in F/SN. Even in F/HA. For example is Shirou and Saber's date talking about the destroyed ship. I think that's somewhat related to Saber vs Caster fight in the 4th war. Also Saber seemed to hate squids or octopus for some reason.When Shirou wanted to make one of the two for dinner/lunch she was like "you eat that thing?" |
Oct 30, 2012 9:56 PM
#130
Leon-Gun said: Yeah though I'm pretty sure the details were made up on the spot since she made it sound like the battle had been 1 on 1 while Zero used it's creative license to make it an all out brawl. Yup, if anything all the references are just Nasu and Urobochi's clever way of tying it up to give the whole thing a more coherent and "wholesome" experience. |
ronriOct 30, 2012 10:04 PM
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