| I'm pretty sure everyone here knows this site is dominated by the SOL brigade, a club which claims to the world "save our world by overloading it with loli's", this group involves most of the mods, and even controlls most dialog in the IRC as well. however, their view on lolis is much different than the mainstream/dictionarys description of a loli as a "Sexualized Young girl", They believe a loli is a symbol of childlike innocence, but despite this, they still have a whole rival group, the ALA. however, there is one thing about SOL that bugs me, why is it that the loli club is non sexual, but the shota club is? Shota is the male equivalent of loli, or "sexualized young boy". shota is known as a bane in the anime universe, and there are fewer shotacon (Con meaning pornographic content) than lolicon. If loli means "cute and innocent young" why doesn't shota mean cute and innocent as well? there are actually just as many non sexual "shouta" than loli, and far less that are pornographic. So why is it only females? |
     |
| because girls can't be pedophiles, DUH. |
  |
accela said: because girls can't be pedophiles, DUH. rofl nice um yea if this thread gets ugly i'm not gonna even give a warning I'm just gonna lock it. anyone who wants to start debating on this topic is strongly urged to at least skim this http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1895 first. You have been warned. |
| The shota club has their own thing and we SOL Brigade has our own? |
| If we had an annual Vladimir Nabokov fan festival, would they call it the LoliCon? "Loli" is derived from "Lolita," cultural slang lifted from the book of the same name for a sexually precocious young girl. That's where the word comes from, that's what it means. Word definitions can change over time, but without mass usage on the part of society, any new definition is nothing more than a personal tag. |
  |
| Well, you have to remember where these terms are originating from. From what I understand, in Japan, "lolita" doesn't mean exactly what it means here... For example, the Gothic & Lolita fashion movement. Lolita fashion isn't about trying to look like a "sexed up little girl." It's actually a very modest and non sexual fashion, despite what you might assume from the name. I had similar questions when I first got here - I had been out of the loop for a long time, and now suddenly everyone was talking about lolis? When I thought loli = lolicon? But that's not the case. From what I gather "lolita" is a character archetype, like a tsundere. The lolita character is innocent and childlike in behavior and appearance, generally speaking. Why there are so many non-sexual lolis running around but not shotas could just be because lolis are kind of an 'in' thing right now. Or it could be that the target audience of most anime is aimed at a crowd that would like lolis (men) and not shotas (women tend to like them more). I mean, I guess you could say there are plenty of shota-type characters, they just don't get any attention... Um, for example, I guess Kouta from Elfen Lied is a shota, at least in the flashbacks to his childhood. |
  |
Aokaado said: omg..... not again = Ditto. At the moment, this thread seems fine. But the last loli thread pissed me off so much... Megadedhed does make a good point though. I had never even heard of Shota till recently. |
| the_pillows said: the SOL is in the minority when it comes to their stance on loli type characters... about that, I can't guarantee that SOL is or isn't in the minority, but I do know that there's a very significant percentage that holds a similar definition, and it really depends on where you've been and what you've experienced that decides which definition you've chosen. I, for one, come from blogging circles and that's where most of my anime knowledge comes from (apart from MAL). the general anime blogosphere, I believe, holds a definition of "lolis" very similar to the one SOL holds. I put up example blog links in the previous loli thread. In terms of other anime communities: I'm not sure how 4chan views lolis (probably irrelevant to them, since they'd sexualize most of them anyway XD), and the Narutard/Newbie Animefandom probably holds the more sexualized definition, since those less familiar in the anime community would be more familiar with the Nabokov definition. and yea those are the only other major communities I can think off the top of my head at the moment. back to class... :( |
BadSeafood said: "Loli" is derived from "Lolita," cultural slang lifted from the book of the same name for a sexually precocious young girl. That's where the word comes from, that's what it means. Word definitions can change over time, but without mass usage on the part of society, any new definition is nothing more than a personal tag. While I'm inclined to agree with you on semantics, I don't think it applies across the board. Even if the word is being used improperly, the context it's used most often in with reference to the SOL Brigade and in my experience anime in general is innocent rather than sexual. Just like Kana mentioned with regard to the word "otaku," where many anime fans label themselves otaku with pride while the word's real meaning is quite derogatory and not something you'd want to refer to yourself as. That doesn't make everyone who calls themself an otaku a socially inept loser - at worst it means that they're misusing a word and unintentionally insulting themselves. In the same vein, labeling oneself a "loli fan" doesn't make you a pedophile. As for the whole loli/shouta thing, I think that ties back into a larger cultural tendency - the tendency to think that males can't be taken advantage of sexually. Perhaps it runs even deeper than just cultural conditioning, but if you mention the word "rape" to someone they immediately think of a guy forcing himself on a girl. If you say "pedophile" one thinks of some creepy 40-year-old pariah trying to lure little girls in chatrooms, or a single mom's deadbeat boyfriend who takes advantage of her little daughter when she isn't home. In fact, the only thing I can think of that conjures the image of males being taken advantage of is the stereotype attached to catholic priests and altar/choir boys. It sounds ridiculous if you stop to think about it, but that's the way people view the world. |
 |
Krelian said: While I'm inclined to agree with you on semantics, I don't think it applies across the board. Even if the word is being used improperly, the context it's used most often in with reference to the SOL Brigade and in my experience anime in general is innocent rather than sexual. Of course not, but even the widely applied term is still a far cry from "Childlike innocence." SOL can argue that the one follows naturally behind the other, but I've seen my fair share of loli-type characters to know innocence isn't exactly flowing like a tap from some of them. Then again, I have no idea how SOL ascribes status, so maybe I'm just a fish out of water. |
|
BadSeafood said: Of course not, but even the widely applied term is still a far cry from "Childlike innocence." SOL can argue that the one follows naturally behind the other, but I've seen my fair share of loli-type characters to know innocence isn't exactly flowing like a tap from some of them. do have a point there, so modified the description in the club a bit. :) |
| Although I am a member of the SOL Brigade, I must admit that some of the loli pictures I've seen on websites are gross (the sexual ones). But I have one question to ask: Is loli another word for moe, or associated with it? Just asking. |
MomoHime125Oct 5, 2007 5:27 PM
 Current Avatar: Sawako from Kimi ni Todoke |
DivineRose125 said: Although I am a member of the SOL Brigade, I must admit that some of the loli pictures are gross (the sexual ones). But I have one question to ask: Is loli another word for moe, or associated with it? Just asking. The most common features include youthfulness as a physical trait (younger age or twintails) or as an emotional trait (naive or innocent outlook) and some obvious sympathetic weakness the character works hard to correct (extreme clumsiness or a life-threatening disease). However, most artists define moe not as a reference to a character so much as any personality that elicits a protective or loving response from the audience. For instance, being naive is very often considered as a favoured feature, but characters who have a complicated and extreme deep thoughts may also be considered as moe depending on the audience. Appearance aside, the personality of moekko can vary widely; a tomboy or a sarcastic cynic could be considered moe given a specific audience. Some of the more popular moekko actually have a few traits that do not traditionally fit into the label, and others have gained such a following by accident. Moe focusing on younger characters is often confused with or even equated with lolicon, and shota but for many fans there is a subtle yet distinct line that separates them. To many moe-loyalists, the point is on supporting and watching rather than to imagine being actively involved with the character, with sexual implications being awkward or distasteful. This is sometimes explained as having a 'big brother complex' (which ironically can also have sexual connotations). More generally, many fans insist moe is implicitly non-sexual but, like most types of manga and anime, is sexualized after the fact by other fans again. Critics complain moe fandom tend to embrace characters who are nonthreatening and cute, or embrace a warped interpretation of some female characters in the form of a self-created idol. |
    Sam is my sweet peach |
TheWestExit said: Thanks for the answer.DivineRose125 said: Although I am a member of the SOL Brigade, I must admit that some of the loli pictures are gross (the sexual ones). But I have one question to ask: Is loli another word for moe, or associated with it? Just asking. The most common features include youthfulness as a physical trait (younger age or twintails) or as an emotional trait (naive or innocent outlook) and some obvious sympathetic weakness the character works hard to correct (extreme clumsiness or a life-threatening disease). However, most artists define moe not as a reference to a character so much as any personality that elicits a protective or loving response from the audience. For instance, being naive is very often considered as a favoured feature, but characters who have a complicated and extreme deep thoughts may also be considered as moe depending on the audience. Appearance aside, the personality of moekko can vary widely; a tomboy or a sarcastic cynic could be considered moe given a specific audience. Some of the more popular moekko actually have a few traits that do not traditionally fit into the label, and others have gained such a following by accident. Moe focusing on younger characters is often confused with or even equated with lolicon, and shota but for many fans there is a subtle yet distinct line that separates them. To many moe-loyalists, the point is on supporting and watching rather than to imagine being actively involved with the character, with sexual implications being awkward or distasteful. This is sometimes explained as having a 'big brother complex' (which ironically can also have sexual connotations). More generally, many fans insist moe is implicitly non-sexual but, like most types of manga and anime, is sexualized after the fact by other fans again. Critics complain moe fandom tend to embrace characters who are nonthreatening and cute, or embrace a warped interpretation of some female characters in the form of a self-created idol. |
Current Avatar: Sawako from Kimi ni Todoke |
Krelian said: That's me, by the way. ZoiQ and I are pretty awesome 40-year old men :D If you say "pedophile" one thinks of some creepy 40-year-old pariah trying to lure little girls in chatrooms ZoiQ said: accela said: because girls can't be pedophiles, DUH. There are plenty :< Where is the 'Shota ftw~' poll? ZoiQ know's what he's talking about ^_~ Sorry Mega, not answering seriously :P I think people really did respond well. Oh and Krelian is right. When I think of Shota, I think of little catholic choir boys and diry old priests. OR Boku no pico.. (not sure what's worse) >___> Maybe that's why it's not cool.. hahahha... edit: Honey-senpai ftw~ <3 |
ZoiQ said: accela said: because girls can't be pedophiles, DUH. There are plenty :< Where is the 'Shota ftw~' poll? a joke, chief. |
| |
Megadedhed said: So why is it only females? This thread is not as exciting as the title implied. ((I didn't read the block of text)) But I can tell you I like only females because I'm not gay. |
| A dream catcher works. If your dream is to be gay. |
| good for you mdizzles... maybe you should read things first.... just a suggestion though. |
| Thanks. Block of text > than my patience. :( EDIT: I forgot to mention I like the sound of myself typing. |
| A dream catcher works. If your dream is to be gay. |
More topics from this board
Sticky: » The Current Events Board Will Be Closed on Friday JST ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Luna - Aug 2, 2021 |
272 |
by traed
»»
Aug 5, 2021 5:56 PM |
|
» Third shot of Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine offers big increase in antibody levels: study ( 1 2 )Desolated - Jul 30, 2021 |
50 |
by Desolated
»»
Aug 5, 2021 3:24 PM |
|
» Western vaccine producers engage in shameless profiteering while poorer countries are supplied mainly by China.Desolated - Aug 5, 2021 |
1 |
by Bourmegar
»»
Aug 5, 2021 3:23 PM |
|
» NLRB officer says Amazon violated US labor lawDesolated - Aug 3, 2021 |
17 |
by kitsune0
»»
Aug 5, 2021 1:41 PM |
|
» China Backs Cuba in Saying US Should Apply Sanctions To ItselfDesolated - Aug 5, 2021 |
10 |
by Desolated
»»
Aug 5, 2021 1:36 PM |