Forums

So how do you get a sex surrogate exactly? Do you have to get like...some sort of screening? Or can you just make an appointment?

'cause if it's the latter, it kind of sounds like the 'girlfriend experience' you can get with some of the more caring escorts.

There would definitely be screening since they (for example) wouldn't want themselves to contract STDs like HIV.

I do see your point, but a lot of the stats in these countries have been tampered with/ skewed because of peoples personal feelings towards the subject. Getting data which actually tells a real story about how legalising prostitution has made a difference is hard because of the moral implications/new transparency in an area where before there was none. People have jumped on the bangwagon because it hasn't worked perfectly and have tried to use it as an example of failure, which just isn't true. I will happily admit i exaggerated my side of the argument to prove a point/ play devils advocate/ get stupid people to actually listen. But as i said its not perfect.

I mean you look at Holland which has some of the lowest Crime/STD(HIV)/drug addiction rates in the world, yet has some of the laxest laws in relation to the sex trade and drugs. So where is the logic in that? I mean the US has 3 times the rate of aids than Holland and six times that of Germany, both places where prostitution has been legalised. The US has one of the harshest penal systems in the Western world yet has one of the highest rates of crime, drug addiction and STD's rates in the Western world. So obviously making it illegal is not working... ( a very crude example but you get where im going with it)

As i stated before, the problem is not the legalisation of prostitution, its a human trafficking problem. One might argue if you had more stringent controls on Human trafficking then you cut out the majority of illegal sex workers and ultimately the ability for pimps to control the market.

The issue is that because prostitution still has a stigma attached to it and people do not consider it a valid profession, it leaves people within it, regulated or not, open to abuse. As a result a lot of people choose to practice it in secret/ illegally. Until peoples opinions towards prostitution change the abuse side will never stop and pimps and underground sex work will continue to flourish.

Regulating it properly is essential. If you legalise it but don't put in proper restrictions then it is pointless. In both Germany and Holland it has worked, but as i said not perfectly. It is slowly becoming a recognised profession, and something that doesn't have a negative stigma attached to it. When that happens, abuse will be reduced as people will realise that its like buying any other service, you can't abuse the people supplying you with that service without repercussions.

Overall working conditions for sex workers has improved. there are thousands of registered sex workers, they have rights, benefits and the ability to approach the police without repercussion. It has helped, but because illegal prostitution hasn't been stamped out entirely people have seen that as testament to how it hasn't worked. Sometimes is takes a little reading between the lines. I could dig out some of the articles i used for my essay but it was 4 years ago. ( I'm going off stuff i have in my head, which is like a sieve) if i can find any pdf's I'll happily upload them. The majority of in depth academic articles I read said that although on the surface it seems that prostitution seems to have increased ( higher rates of abuse, STDs etc etc) is simply because there is more visibility in an area which before most people chose to turn a blind eye to. If one thing can be said it is that legalising it has NOT made it any worse in the majority of western countries that have legalised it ( there is no point even including African countries that have legalised it as there are no regulations in place to make it any better.) The one thing that will improve the situation now is people's perceptions of sex work and a stronger control on human trafficking. Most online / newspaper articles are often grossly misinformed and are generally just people ranting about their personal feelings toward the subject with very little substance/evidence to back up their argument ( right or wrong, it isnt exclusive to people who disagree with it). Basically long story short, don't believe what you read in the papers.

I don't quite understand why you believe that only 5-10% of those involved in this industry would benefit from those changes?

As long as prostitution (if legalised) was properly policed and regulated, than it would effect far far more than a mere 10%.

In the end, the ONLY reason society has a problem with sex is generally from a religious bias perspective.

Because sex, the act of procreation, just plain fucking, is really nothing special when it is done for the simple pleasure that it is. I suspect society would have a lot less trouble with it, if it was treated as nothing more than a basic biological function. People would still want to do it with a person that they care for. You'd still need to protect from unwanted pregnancy and STDs.

But if arranging to have full out sex, was no more special than going to a restaurant and letting someone else do your cooking, it sure would help a lot of single people that can't seem to find their special someone. Sex, it is just something we all want and need. Getting paid to have sex shouldn't be any more peculiar than letting someone get paid for doing your laundry or your house work. It's no more odd to pay for 30 minutes of sweaty pleasure, than paying someone to do your yard work.

I'd love to be able to walk with the wife, find a nice place to eat lunch, and be able to unzip my pants and offer my erection for her to suck on as a prelude to our enjoying some sex in the sun in the grass. And not be forced to feel like it was a major problem that someone might see me doing what we ALL know everyone does. Every time you see a pregnant woman, she was almost certainly sucking on some guys cock for a time, and then she got to the process of having his cock deliver sperm into her while engaging in what we call fucking.

Some of us like sex more than others, but, it is always just a basic human act called procreation.

well said sir!

There is no logic in these examples, because they are all filled with omitted variable bias and "correlation does not equal causation". These numbers have to do with millions of other social factors, the legal status of prostitution isn't going to drastically change them.



Which I agree with, but legalization of prostitution becomes a problem by increasing human trafficking.



How are people's opinions going to stop abuse? That doesn't make any sense. It's inherent in the industry, you can't reasonably change that.



How many more thousands of illegal sex workers are there though? The human brain is generally bad at unbiased statistics and this is a perfect example. A few thousand sex workers get "saved" (or perhaps less, I'm willing to bet a lot of the registered ones are new comers who entered the industry because it became legal) by working in better conditions, and this is good. It somehow makes up for the fact that illegal brothels will probably increase.

I may not have reliable numbers to support this, but it doesn't take numbers to see why this would happen. It's a combination of two things: the increased demand (more johns are out there looking for prostitution of some kind, because it is now more acceptable), and running an illegal business is easier when the industry is legal (you don't have to hide as much, you can feign legality).



Because (I've found different numbers on this in different places, and depending on the location) roughly 90% of all prostitution is run by pimps, and they aren't going to register/let their prostitutes register, ie. no benefits. Some outside of that may choose not to register, not wanting the label of prostitute.

Therein lays the problem. I think your definition/expectation, and other pro-legalization people, of properly policed and regulated is completely unrealistic and at best a complete waste of resources. Why expand the problem, and waste tons of resources policing/regulating/etc., when we can just try to stamp out prostitution from where we are now.

I know that to some extent prostitution will always exist, so controlling it sounds nice. However, people simply want prostitution, no one is or should ever feel entitled to it, and we certainly don't need it.

You don't think people are concerned about STDs and unwanted pregnancies?



Society does not treat as a biological function and yet people still have unprotected sex with people they barely know... so what makes you so sure people would pay attention to those things if we did without the religious hang ups?



It says a lot about you that you are more concerned about the lonely men who hire prostitutes than you are for the women who prostitute themselves.



You don't think the personal intimacy, disease potential and possible pregnancy might distinguish the two things somewhat?



Then I for one am glad to live in a world where the response to such behaviour is a prison sentence and a place on the sex offenders register.



I don't think many people view pregnant women that way, perhaps because not all men view women as sex objects.



It is only called procreation if it produces a child. The clue is in the name.



Which part of it?

The bit where he talked about how much he wants his wife to go down on him in a public park?

It was half serious comment mate, i couldn't help but giggle at his post. It made light of a serious topic and made me laugh. I think you have to take what he said with a pinch of salt, what he was getting at is that people have this massive moral problem with sex and about being open about it whereas its entirely normal. In essence the only reason we feel so much shame and embarrassment about the topic is because of well...religion. I think he was exaggerating to make a point.



I was simply going off what you had said about the rate of aids/STD's increasing since the legalisation of prostitution in Australia was it?. Which i find very hard to believe. My point was that its very unlikely that the legalisation of prostitution was the sole cause of STD's to spike. Because by that logic, countries who have lax drug and sex work policies should by that logic have high std, HIV and drug addiction rates. As i said it was a crude example.



These things should by no means should be mutual. Yes the latter has an effect on the former, but it shouldnt be allowed to and if legalisation is to work you need to have very strong boarder controls and low levels of human trafficking. I'm not saying have no immigration, but stem the flow of illegal immegration by traffickers. The problem there is not the girls and guys being forced into prostitution but them being trafficked there in the first place. I'm not saying to disregard those who have already been trafficked in. But i am saying it should be cut off and stopped before it ever get to that point.



By legalising and making it a valid and respected profession. In order to change peoples perceptions towards it we need it to be seen as a area which is regulated, safe and like any other service you can buy. Now im not saying that it will suddenly change over night but people will gradually come to accept it in time if it continues to improve. The main issue is that people who want to go legal often dont want to show to the outside world they are in the sex trade because they will be ostracised because of it. Agreed you wont be able to change the opinions of those running the illegal sex trade but you can change the opinion of those in the public to make it easier for people who do work in the sex trade be accepted as valued members of society. At the moment they are not.



I do see you point there and i cant argue too much with it. It does increase demand. What you have to do it make it a serious crime to go to an illegal brothel. So then its on the side of the consumer, and more often than not someone will choose to go with the legal option. If you cant police it properly then i don't think it should be legalised, but you also have to set it up in a way where the incentive to go to a legal brothel outweighs going to an illegal one ( be it via a carrot or a stick). You might say "but how do you know what's legal and what illegal?" that's what has to be very clear. I dont have all the answers. But i think its very much on the side of the consumer as to whether or not illegal brothels continue to thrive.



Yes it will always exist and it will always be rife, you will never be able to stamp it out, you can only try and make it safer. You are saying its a massive waste of resources legalising it and trying to regulate it. But its equally if not more of a drain on time and money trying to stamp it out via force hence why things like the war on drugs are endless. There will ALWAYS be a demand for it.Whether i actually agree with someone being able to buy sex is actually a conflicted topic for me, I don't know if i think its actually right or wrong, but then again ( i know this will sound arrogant,) ive never and probably will never have the need to buy sex, so i cant really see why people would. But i believe people should be able to work in the sex trade if they want to or if they don't want to. Legalising it, for me, is simply a way of making a very dangerous profession for women and men alike easier to live and survive in and also make it easier for them to choose whether or not they partake in it. I think legalising it gives people more choice in the matter.

Sorry none of these replies have been brilliant, i will edit it when i have mroe time but im currently at work and multitasking like mad! so sorry about the huge amount of typos and block text.

And that's why you'd need for it to be policed properly. I'm not saying things will change overnight, it will take many years but it can only get better under those situations.



And trying to "stamp out prostitution" is just completely impossible, you will never ever ever get rid of prostitution ever, the sun will die out long before prostitution.

And "waste of resources" idea is a very strange one Josh...a lot of women are forced into prostitution through kidnap, rape and violence. And then you have the statistics and rape, violence and murder are amongst the highest against prostitutes.

How can it even POSSIBLY be a waste of resources to try and protect these people?

Also Lesley is right and I largely said the same thing, the only reason we see sex the way we do is because of religion, when infact sex is perfectly normal and healthy, in fact (and I'm talking about when you take precautions not having unprotected sex with random people) it's very very good for you.

It's one of those strange hypocrisy of our society, one that we'll eventually move on from when people realise it's not a bad thing if society was less hung up over it.