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| It's just insanely incredible how much drama was put into such a pointless school movie.. Including that aforementioned "wrong" emotions the character had this time. Annoyed the hell out of me. Also Ibara was surprisingly nice to Oreki when she realizes how he reacted to her opinion about the end of the movie.. After all one of the worst episodes in my opinion but still better than that 20-min-just-sitting-around-and-talk episode 9. Ah well, at least it's over now with that stupid movie (for the most part).. besides..that thing with the rope.. the rope wasn't acutally needed, I mean it's a movie, why should someone risk himself on climbing from level to level of a building just to "play" an assault that was never real or filmed in the first place? Seems like a major fault in this whole arc for me. Just weird how focused people are on the rope - within the anime and in front of it without thinking about that. However I am no fan of Sherlock Holmes or any combinatorics so..moving right along~ |
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| So now the pressure's on for Oreki. Seems like a great way to develop his character. I'm also curious on who was Irisu chatting with online. |
| I get the whole thing, but I'm just confused about that whole chat thing Irisu had. |
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| Holy crap...... So much drama over a single little movie. But I guess I know where it comes from, as I've filmed an amateur movie under similar circumstances as well. Not fun, TBH. Anyways, I can't believe it was that simple of a mystery. It wasn't really a "mystery" that Hongou was filming, though. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
13man18 said: A possible conspiracy going on?I get the whole thing, but I'm just confused about that whole chat thing Irisu had. |
-MgZ_ said: Anyways, can somebody translate that whole chat with Irisu and whoever that is? Any idea who that is? She called him/her "senpai" so I guess it's Houtaro's sister? Or no. It is Hotarou's sister. Tomoe-neesan basically said that Irisu didn't actually want to help anyone but herself. Irisu thinks that Hongou's script was trash (Remember Hotarou also said that Irisu does not care for those who doesn't have talents) and she wants to have somebody else to finish it, thus trying to lie to everyone and the Oreki siblings. That hit Irisu pretty hard and tries to defend herself, but Tomoe-neesan already logged out. |
redd530 said: I bloody knew it. Well, at least, a few minutes ago but I thought it sounded stupid. :/-MgZ_ said: Anyways, can somebody translate that whole chat with Irisu and whoever that is? Any idea who that is? She called him/her "senpai" so I guess it's Houtaro's sister? Or no. It is Hotarou's sister. Tomoe-neesan basically said that Irisu didn't actually want to help anyone but herself. Irisu thinks that Hongou's script was trash (Remember Hotarou also said that Irisu does not care for those who doesn't have talents) and she wants to have somebody else to finish it, thus trying to lie to everyone and the Oreki siblings. That hit Irisu pretty hard and tries to defend herself, but Tomoe-neesan already logged out. |
| Wow. That was great. I felt bad for Oreki. But then again, he was starting to think highly of himself, but that was because how everyone around treated him. Irisu must be a Kohai of Oreki's sister who is abroad right now. But Japan is 4 hours from India, that's one third of the half of the globe, if you take it literally, just over thinking I guess. I liked both the way the mystery was solved and the way Oreki found out that Irisu was behind it. And he had the clue from Satoshi referring him as "The Strength" in the team. If anything, I find Satoshi more mysterious. 5/5 |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
| Drama the Animated Series. I turned out without drama this series is too boring. Drama is good people! Unless it's the facepalming kind... |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| Oh shit, Irisu was the "culprit" but I still want her to be part of the main cast. I didn't like how serious Satoshi and Inaba were when they told Oreki he was wrong, it's not like the world was going to end, so out of place. Loved it when Oreki admitted he is being controlled by the girls. As for the other person in the chat, would his sister call him an idiot? |
ZhouJul 1, 2012 7:30 PM
| really liked this episode though Houtarou wasn't acting like his normal self but i understand why he got angry,cant wait for next week~. |
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| Arc is finally over. Oreki was used :(. I feel bad for him but atleast it's over. Next ep looks fun. Eru jumping = win :D spartan112g said: That sounds likely. I'm sure his sister wants to make sure her brother's not bored while in the club lol.I'm going with the "senpai" being Oreki's sister. It seems like it works with the "half-way around the world" idea and who else would have recommended Oreki to her. razor39999 said: It wasn't pointless if it turned out Oreki was used just to finish the movie. I'd be pissed too if I was lied to just to produce results.So much pointless drama around a school movie. |
YveseJul 1, 2012 7:48 PM
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| Now all those people that asked why they didn't ask the script writer can shut up. lol nantuko said: Ah well, at least it's over now with that stupid movie (for the most part).. besides..that thing with the rope.. the rope wasn't acutally needed, I mean it's a movie, why should someone risk himself on climbing from level to level of a building just to "play" an assault that was never real or filmed in the first place? Seems like a major fault in this whole arc for me. Just weird how focused people are on the rope - within the anime and in front of it without thinking about that. However I am no fan of Sherlock Holmes or any combinatorics so..moving right along~ They were probably going to film the climbing too. If they didn't it wouldn't explain how she got over to the other side to assault the guy. Did you even watch this episode? The film was changed to what the script writer had planned. |
WhaleCostumeJul 1, 2012 7:52 PM
PikachuXD said: Meh no one's perfect. Flattery from a pretty chick voiced by CC would def throw off my rhythm too. This, and I hope Irisu will still be in the upcoming episode since she's an interesting character(and hot too). But I really hate it how Satoshi and Ibara act towards Oreki, it's not like they are helping him soliving the case since they have their own "problems" and left Oreki all alone to solve it. I'm glad that Chitanda didn't being an as like both of them, and things are looking good between oreki and Chitanda, I hope there will be romance between them eventually. I wonder who is the person that Irisu called Senpai? That senpai seem to know Oreki very well so It might be Oreki's sister? I think it's possible since Oreki's sister is an alumni in that school. Overall nice episode, love to see so much emotion coming from Oreki. |
| Hey I was right about it involving the other windows which were open.. |
| Bleh... lol It was good but I feel cheated for some reason. |
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| I was highly amused at how srs biz this episode was. Mystery orange person is clearly Houtarou's older sister. |
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| I like the episode but I have to agree that it was way too dramatic. It was just an amateur movie, I was really bothered by how the other characters reacted when they realized Houtarou was wrong. Especially Satoshi, his outburst seemed completely out of character for something that really wasn't that important. But I can't blame Houtarou for getting so mad. If I were a person who avoided doing things and never really thought of himself as anything truly special, and someone hyped up my abilities and got me to go out of my way to do something, only to find out that not only was I used but I completely failed in the task I set out to accomplish I'd be pretty pissed too. Anyway, despite the extreme drama I enjoyed this episode a lot, though I hope in the future the show can avoid pointless drama. 4/5 |
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| I don't get why everyone was acting like a bunch of assholes towards Oreki...it's true that he screwed up in finding what Hongou wanted, but he did what he was misled to do (writing an awesome plot) so he did...and nobody helped him, nobody actually deciphered what happen...so they don't really have a say in it. |
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| Yup way too much drama over a high school movie. Was interesting to see the angry side of Houtarou. He does his job in trying to determine the "right ending" for the movie, then gets bombarded by his friends for the missing information. Then he learns that he was only being used to make a "unexpected ending." Too much for one brain to handle i guess. So both Houtarou and Irisu are the fools. Houtarou by being used and Irisu by getting called out on her deception. |
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| It was odd how overly emotional everyone was lololol |
| Yeah, Irisu might have been doing Hougou a service by having the script changed because the rest of the class would not have liked it. |
xMusicMohawk said: I don't get why everyone was acting like a bunch of assholes towards Oreki...it's true that he screwed up in finding what Hongou wanted, but he did what he was misled to do (writing an awesome plot) so he did...and nobody helped him, nobody actually deciphered what happen...so they don't really have a say in it. I so agree!! I was getting mad at everyone for making him feel that way : ( It may be because I like Oreki a lot, but seriously, they weren't coming up with anything better. |
I am a sucker for romance!!!! ] |
| I think Oreki's ending prior to the rope was better than the one he specified at the end of this episode, it seemed a lot more "thrilling" and "interesting." But since the rope had to play an intricate part in the story, his new-ending makes a lot more sense. His club-mates seemed to really beat him up about failing to solve it the first time around, that was just unnecessary. Can't wait for the next episode! With all of the development, I'm really anticipating the next mystery. |
| Great ep! Oreki was kinda tough on himself though D: I'm starting to enjoy this show more and more... :3 |
| Feeling bad for Oreki after that. I mean, Irisu just comes off as cold and emotionless. I hate her. Everyone ganged up on Oreki, and honestly, I hope he acts a bit vengeful towards the other three. They couldn't have told him all this shit before? And honestly, everyone loved it, and Hongou's "no-dying" story would have sucked hard. If I was Oreki, I'd go back to my low-energy lifestyle. Oreki literally got nothing out of that but anger and depression. He made a perfect movie, and even though everyone loved it, he's made out to be a failure. Fuck that, next time, tell 'em to make the damn movie without you. Then see what happens. |
 "In both love and octopus-hunting, you have to take the initiative!" - Gintoki Sakata |
razor39999 said: Did you even 'watch' the ep? It sounds like you ignored most of it due to you being annoyed. It was made pretty clear why they didn't ask Hongou. Like half the ep talked about it. How could you miss that?Yvese said: It wasn't pointless if it turned out Oreki was used just to finish the movie. I'd be pissed too if I was lied to just to produce results. The fact that it didn't cross their minds to just ask Hongou how she wanted to end it, the silly raging Satoshi (and to a lesser degree Ibara), the fact that at the end of the day it's just a freaking school movie that won't be seen by more than a few hundred people, oh yeah, so completely pointless. Just like every other "mystery" in this show. And even the whole thought process behind Irisu wanting to go such a roundabout way instead of asking Hongou to just modify the script slightly. I mean seriously this whole thing could've been avoided if she just asked nicely. Stupid drama ftw. |
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| The drama between Oreki and Satoshi and Irisu felt way too dramatic... didnt fit with the overall feel of the series. Senpai in the conversation is obviously Oreki's sis. And everyone is still too harsh on Oreki. Great episode despite the drama did bring down the episode a bit imo. |
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xMusicMohawk said: This. Wtf at the way Satoshi and Ibara were talking to him afterwards it was as if they were looking down on him and blaming him or something.I don't get why everyone was acting like a bunch of assholes towards Oreki...it's true that he screwed up in finding what Hongou wanted, but he did what he was misled to do (writing an awesome plot) so he did...and nobody helped him, nobody actually deciphered what happen...so they don't really have a say in it. So Irisu was the whole mastermind behind everything and she used whatever means possible to get what she wanted. She makes me feel bad for Hongou. That senpai that she was talking to at the end was ftw, love the way she just signed off like that. I agree with the people who say that's Houtarou's sister. And damnn I never thought I'd see Houtarou get mad like that. |
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| Melodrama over a simple school movie project? What's the point if one could have asked Hongou? I think this episode lays bare the central conflict over this arc: the importance of intentions. Let me explain. Irisu convinces Houtarou to solve this mystery because he is the best detective in the school. Houtarou is tricked into believing Irisu chose him because he can best solve this dilemma class 2F is in. Irisu never lies; after all, Houtarou is probably the best person to solve this mystery. Houtarou solves this mystery using the facts given to him (i.e. the movie). Now, when Houtarou gets angry, it's because he realizes that these were never Irisu's intentions. Irisu led him to believe that her intentions were for him to solve the script, when in fact, she wanted someone to write a better script. Why? Because she wanted the movie to be a success, she put the success of the movie over the intentions of the scriptwriter, Hongou. Now, as an analogy, imagine a politician preaching to a community about the virtues of donating their services. Upon hearing the speech, one would come under the impression that the politician is a kindly and generous fellow. What if the politician just spoke as such because he wanted your support in the upcoming elections. We are led to believe that the politician cares about each one of us, when in fact, the politician only sees each person as a possible vote. Now, who would not be raging when they find out the true intentions of the politician. What the remaining members of the Classics Club push Houtarou to realize is the importance of Hongou's intentions over the correct solution to the script. This is what brings Houtarou to realize Irisu's real intentions. No wonder Houtarou feels unspeakable rage over not only how she misled him in his belief of her true intentions but also how she played with his emotions during the process. Irisu, on the other hand, doesn't really care that she bullshit Houtarou. With a task ahead of her, she did everything she can to produce the best results. The chat between Irisu and Houtarou's sister is enlightening for this very reason. Irisu finally seems to have realized how contradictory her actions her. The point of the school movie project was really for everyone to have a good time. By believing that the point was for the movie to be a success, she failed to achieve the true goal. Everything comes to bit her back. Hence, the final phrase of each episode of this arc makes sense. Why didn't she ask Eba? Irisu didn't wish to reveal her true, but incorrect, intentions. In hindsight, it makes sense she should have revealed them to Eba, the one closest to Hongou (if not Hongou). Therefore, Irisu would have realized that the success of the movie comes second to the happiness of her classmates and would have never had to pursue her intentions using bullshit. This arc and the first both seem to repeatedly hit Hyouka's central theme: discovering intentions. In the first arc, we find out Chitanda's uncle's true intentions; in this arc, Hongou's true intentions. In both arcs, the victims are portrayed as unlucky heroes because of the manipulation of intentions. For those interested, I am using Harry Frankfurt definition of bullshit in his book, "On Bullshit." |
s2012k1993Jul 1, 2012 11:15 PM
| really didnt like how the crew kept telling off houtarou about how his theory was wrong, despite the fact that he had to think of the most logical ending by himself... (and a damn good ending at that) also surprising revelation when Irisu was the one who caused hongou's "illness" and trying to figure out the ending of the movie turning into a mystery by itself the chat log with "senpai" also confused me... so that was houtarou's sister who set him up using Irisu??? |
 <img src="http://i47.tinypic.com/2mw85l2.jpg" /> |
| Na i think the reason for the others being so hard on him is just "tough love?" or either a sense of motivation, since they did try to sugarcoat it abit by telling him its was a wonderful ending and kind of harshly telling him what was wrong, but I guess the main reason why is that they just had high expectations of him, thinking that because of who he is (conserve energy guy), they probably wanted him to feel some sort of regret in order to for him to act upon it instead of leaving it thinking it was to much of a hassle. But as others mentioned it wasn't his fault so the others didn't know. Nevertheless it was a great conclusion and luved seeing Oreki from another perspective from his usual persona :3 |
| I feel bad for Houtarou. (I saw this line everywhere in this thread) Yes. I feel bad for him. In the end, the rope is nothing because Kounosu can't use the right wing of the building if Kaitou died. That means Houtarou's deduction made perfect sense and also served as interesting plot. He might really have forgotten about the rope, but the film had already strayed from Hongou's original script making the rope trick invalid. In other words, contradiction in mystery. How can people expect him to deduce Hongou's thought given the false film? I think Houtarou did excellently, even found out what is in Hongou's and Irisu's mind. For other people. Irisu: I'm so damn disappointed. Mayaka: She pointed out about the rope, but I don't think she was harsh on him. Actually she did feel bad for him working alone too. Satoshi: Why so serious, man? Eru: Put in a lot of works to support Houtarou in her own way this time. Good job. |
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| Indeed.. too dramatic, i still don't know why they decided to animate SO WELL this novel since it lacks action and they're overreacting with so little.. I think this should be more like a slice of life since the big "problems" aren't really a big deal for most of the characters.. or shouldn't be O_O.. |
| . . . y o u f o u n d m e ♥ : icon's credit : |
| ive never seen Oreki lose his cool like that but one can understand, no one like being use, This episode did a complete 360, everthing one was told, turn out to be not true in a sense. O well, on to the next one (no pun intended) and Oreki is The Strength, alway ending up in one of Chi-chan adventures Chi-Chan is The Foo,l For more reason then one |
HydnlifeJul 2, 2012 1:41 AM
| Hmmm... Good episode But it's a bit too dramatic |
Oreki was wrong,but in the end he discovered the truth and saved the day. Great episode like always. |
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| Nice arc, it was well done and the twist about this episode was pretty innovative. |
| Yesssssssssss,the girl I thought was the one who would do it if they chose that script. |
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| i'm so so soooooo curious about that 'senpai' Irisu was chatting with |
| The overly dramatic argument: While yes I also thought it was a bit heavy, there needs to be some perspective. Remember this is Japanese culture. They are prone to extremes. They take things WAY seriously compared to western culture. This is culture of "gan batte" and "responsibility". In Episode #8, Oreki even discusses not wanting to "take responsibility". It's because when you get involved in something in Japan you always need to go ALL OUT on it. And if you mess it up you could end up blacklisted by it. It's a very perfectionist culture. Heck, it's not uncommon to see school kids practicing graduation ceremonies for hours every day for a month before the actual event. With that out of the way, Wrecking Oreki and two-faced Irisu: Damn, was everyone busting on Oreki. Talk about kicking him when he's already down. I do think that Oreki does deserve some blame. It's out of character for him to lie or make excuses. I think Ibara and Satoshi knew it and were a bit disappointed by it. But I think they both were also blaming themselves for not sticking by Oreki when he was saddled with the problem by himself, cause they all had other commitments and Eri was recovering from a drunken stupor. I had this gut feeling that Irisu was setting up to be the villain in the arc. We all got played by her, including Oreki. She is quite charming and manipulative. Satoshi warned us that she had a reputation of using people as pawns. Sadly, this all came to fruition in this arc. She indeed used Oreki and the Classics club to solve her dilemma. On top of it, she lied to them the entire way. I know Yumekichi11 had it bad for Irisu. I haven't seen him post on this episode yet; so I figure he still might be raging at how her character got fleshed out by the authors. I feel his pain; I wanted to like her as well. In the end. I think we all were fooled because we didn't stop to realize that the movie scene itself wasn't what Hongou wanted. On top of it, Hongou was getting sabotaged because everyone thought her script was boring, including Irisu. I think the only way Irisu could redeem herself now is if she flat out apologizes to those she wronged publicly. I'm talking down on the knees "face losing" type apology. Since doing that would be an incredibly damaging thing to a young woman in her social position. At least find a way to make things right. Cause not only did she burn a few bridges she also may have lost a friend and mentor. The movie mystery: So, I got the part about Yuri climbing down to a reception room and attacking Saitou part right. The problem is props guy and the cast sabotaged it and made Saitou "dead" with a decapitated arm in a locked room so Hongou couldn't fix her script. What Hongou wanted a script to be about a violent lovers spat that both victim and attacker would deny so that the other group and audience would have to figure it out using clues. Essentially the movie was setting up to be a disaster. Because everyone didn't like Hongou's ideas and were doing their own thing. I think it was understandable for Irisu who was stuck with the mess to need help desperately. Irisu's problem is how she went about handling it. The arc title "why didn't they ask EBA?" was the big clue. The clue that what Irisu was telling them was bullshit. That even if Hongou was on her deathbed she could be asked for the details by her close friend EBA, and they wouldn't need to involve other groups. Oreki was being setup to fail from the onset. He could never solve the mystery given that he was lied to about the reasons behind him being asked to help with the project. He was under the premise that Hongou couldn't finish the script due to her health. The reality was that Hongou couldn't finish the script cause her script wasn't being followed. Irisu didn't want him to solve the Hongou's mystery. She wanted him to make a new and better script which he unwittingly gave her. In the end, the movie was something that the masses would consider "interesting". Overall: Actually in the end it turned out really good. We got sucked into thinking solely about the clues as it pertained to the movie; when it reality, we were being served clues as to why Hongou needed help and the faults in the movie project. It was a multilayer mystery. The TRUE mystery is the reason why Irisu was involving the Classics Club in the first place. The movie itself was the secondary mystery. While I knew there was shenanigans involved, I really didn't think about it to THAT extent and realize that without solving the Hongou/Irisu riddle, you couldn't solve the movie one. Once Oreki figured out that he needed to change his way of thinking about the script. He solved the original Hongou script mystery quite easily. Still it sucks how irisu's character played out. They really made her into a horrible villain. I do hope they salvage her character. But at this point i doubt it. Mystery chatter Hekshi_Sekshi said: i'm so so soooooo curious about that 'senpai' Irisu was chatting with I'm still surprised people ask who the orange text "atashi" person is when it's actually the easiest mystery to solve. - he/she is "halfway around the world" - he/she knows Oreki very well and also about the classics club. - he/she is Irisu's "senpai" so she is older than Irisu and went to the same school. most likely graduated since she's abroad. You figured it out?! it's obvious the only person it can possibly be is Oreki's sister. Irisu is the blue text. The green text is Hongou. |
CirrisJul 2, 2012 11:18 AM
| WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT SHOW, THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT!! I love Hyouka. If not for my philosophy to wait with 10s until watching the whole thing, I'd give it the Masterpiece rating right here and now. This arc was brilliant. Can't say anything more without spending the whole day on it. |
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| They all laugh at him behind his back. This anime is actually about how a guy was bullied through his high school days by people he thought were his friends. |
| First part was hillarious - as everyone was going to tell him he's wrong. I liked it, maybe that will allow him to drop his delusions of grandeur and start acting by himself, not being used by everyone around (starting from his sister). well maybe he will even gain some personality? |
Dalek-bakaJul 2, 2012 5:52 AM
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