DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DramaKiDD said: So Kiritsugu shot Kirei in the heart, apparently killing him, but how does he end up being Tohsaka Rin's caretaker in the fate/stay night series if he's dead? If you really want to be spoiled: |
| ahh... they didn't explain to as why Berserker hate Saber that far and why he fight her !! ... what's the story of Lancelot with her !!! |
loub31 said: ahh... they didn't explain to as why Berserker hate Saber that far and why he fight her !! ... what's the story of Lancelot with her !!! It's more guilt than hate. Arthur never punished him and that just made him feel even worse. That's why he used mad enhancement on himself to escape the guilt. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
loub31 said: ahh... they didn't explain to as why Berserker hate Saber that far and why he fight her !! ... what's the story of Lancelot with her !!! Not much need to explain it since it's established mythology. If you google around about it there's plenty of information. |
dio_brando86 said: loub31 said: ahh... they didn't explain to as why Berserker hate Saber that far and why he fight her !! ... what's the story of Lancelot with her !!! Not much need to explain it since it's established mythology. If you google around about it there's plenty of information. I have read about lancelot in WIKI .... and they say that Arthur's wife betrayed him with Lancelot !!!! but here Arthur is a female |
loub31 said: dio_brando86 said: loub31 said: ahh... they didn't explain to as why Berserker hate Saber that far and why he fight her !! ... what's the story of Lancelot with her !!! Not much need to explain it since it's established mythology. If you google around about it there's plenty of information. I have read about lancelot in WIKI .... and they say that Arthur's wife betrayed him with Lancelot !!!! but here Arthur is a female Arturia being a woman is a secret so using another woman to be a Queen was needed to keep up the facade. AnimeFtw1 said: So umm.. The Grail grants you any wish right? Why is it a bad thing? Can't he just wish for cookies or something? After the 3rd war the grail will turn any wish into destruction. |
| so Saber is lesbian :! |
loub31 said: so Saber is lesbian :! She is bi.And we talk about it in the previous thread... |
ssjokg said: Adding on to this, Saber didn't mind Lancelot and the Queen having an affair, since she recognized that Gwen was giving up her chance for love with the fake marriage, but somebody ratted it out to the kingdom. Saber chose to hold up the law and have Gwenivere executed, which caused Lancelot to turn against her. This began the downfall of Camelot.loub31 said: dio_brando86 said: loub31 said: ahh... they didn't explain to as why Berserker hate Saber that far and why he fight her !! ... what's the story of Lancelot with her !!! Not much need to explain it since it's established mythology. If you google around about it there's plenty of information. I have read about lancelot in WIKI .... and they say that Arthur's wife betrayed him with Lancelot !!!! but here Arthur is a female Arturia being a woman is a secret so using another woman to be a Queen was needed to keep up the facade. However, Lancelot is mad because Arturia never punished him for his actions (she didn't make the execution sentence because she wanted to as a person, but because a king must uphold the law). Thus, she never blamed Lancelot, and that drove him insane. What he really wanted deep down was for her to kill him, and he got that here. |
ssjokg said: loub31 said: so Saber is lesbian :! She is bi.And we talk about it in the previous thread... Really .... hahahahhhhhhhhh |
ynst1nx said: i dont get why he denied the grail Seriously?Let me guess..."boring" dialogues, right? razor39999 said: Just a question about the church - since this grail is obviously not the same as the thing from Christian mythology, how come they were chosen as judges for the whole thing? Why not some random secret society instead? It's called the holy grail so that pretty much is enough for them.And there is also the fear of magi having to much power.And the results of a wish with the grail's power could threaten their beliefs |
razor39999 said: Just a question about the church - since this grail is obviously not the same as the thing from Christian mythology, how come they were chosen as judges for the whole thing? Why not some random secret society instead? EDIT: Is it because they already had mage killer units throughout the history of this fictional universe, so the Einzberns thought that as good enough reason to give them judge rights and at the same time to be the least probable group to try and take the grail from the mages? It was explained in the "boring" dialogue in episode 1. It doesn't matter if the grail is not the same grail from Christian mythology. The church feels the need to oversee it as long as it grants power. The three families allowed the church to oversee the war because the church has no interest in reaching the root therefore the church won't hinder their plans. ynst1nx said: trying to understand it in detail detail so .. whats ur guys take on why he denied it the only thing i can understand is .. it cant do miracles? it has to be something comprehendable.. and kiritsugu doesnt agree to how it saves people sometimes and he wants to destroy it because its like that? Refer to post #172 and 176. |
BloodRequiemJun 16, 2012 5:27 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| Words can not describe how much I love this show; it's absolutely amazing! The animation this week... Wow... Just wow. The whole realization for Kiritsugu was great and I didn't expect the grail to be evil. I can't wait until next week for this marvelous show to finally wrap up! *nerdgasm* I would go gay for Gilgamesh any day of the week. |
maluser9999Jun 16, 2012 5:30 PM
| b TheRealBoyd said: ssjokg said: Adding on to this, Saber didn't mind Lancelot and the Queen having an affair, since she recognized that Gwen was giving up her chance for love with the fake marriage, but somebody ratted it out to the kingdom. Saber chose to hold up the law and have Gwenivere executed, which caused Lancelot to turn against her. This began the downfall of Camelot.loub31 said: dio_brando86 said: loub31 said: ahh... they didn't explain to as why Berserker hate Saber that far and why he fight her !! ... what's the story of Lancelot with her !!! Not much need to explain it since it's established mythology. If you google around about it there's plenty of information. I have read about lancelot in WIKI .... and they say that Arthur's wife betrayed him with Lancelot !!!! but here Arthur is a female Arturia being a woman is a secret so using another woman to be a Queen was needed to keep up the facade. However, Lancelot is mad because Arturia never punished him for his actions (she didn't make the execution sentence because she wanted to as a person, but because a king must uphold the law). Thus, she never blamed Lancelot, and that drove him insane. What he really wanted deep down was for her to kill him, and he got that here. But ... did Lancelot know that Saber is a woman ? ? |
loub31 said: b TheRealBoyd said: ssjokg said: Adding on to this, Saber didn't mind Lancelot and the Queen having an affair, since she recognized that Gwen was giving up her chance for love with the fake marriage, but somebody ratted it out to the kingdom. Saber chose to hold up the law and have Gwenivere executed, which caused Lancelot to turn against her. This began the downfall of Camelot.loub31 said: dio_brando86 said: loub31 said: ahh... they didn't explain to as why Berserker hate Saber that far and why he fight her !! ... what's the story of Lancelot with her !!! Not much need to explain it since it's established mythology. If you google around about it there's plenty of information. I have read about lancelot in WIKI .... and they say that Arthur's wife betrayed him with Lancelot !!!! but here Arthur is a female Arturia being a woman is a secret so using another woman to be a Queen was needed to keep up the facade. However, Lancelot is mad because Arturia never punished him for his actions (she didn't make the execution sentence because she wanted to as a person, but because a king must uphold the law). Thus, she never blamed Lancelot, and that drove him insane. What he really wanted deep down was for her to kill him, and he got that here. But ... did Lancelot know that Saber is a woman ? ? I hope you are not taking Nasuverse mythology as the real Arthurian legend but yes Lancelot knew that Saber is a woman. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| Now I'm confusing Lancelot know that Saber is a woman and Saber didn't mind Lancelot and the Queen having an affair .... why they didnt keep it a secret between them and it's over ... thus Arthur dont need to execute Gwenivere |
razor39999 said: BloodRequiem said: It was explained in the "boring" dialogue in episode 1. It doesn't matter if the grail is not the same grail from Christian mythology. The church feels the need to oversee it as long as it grants power. The three families allowed the church to oversee the war because the church has no interest in reaching the root therefore the church won't hinder their plans. The reason I find it a bit silly the authors chose the church as the organization that oversees the whole thing is more the fact that two of the mage families are Japanese and only the Einzberns are obviously Europeans, plus the whole thing can only happen in a town in Japan. So from a quasi-historical standpoint - the first Grail war happened during the time when the Christian church(es) were the big power only in Europe (and a few European colonies). Having some asian religious body/secret society be the judges would make more sense since they would be the ones most worried about the possible outcomes of a successful grail summoning messing up their belief system. EDIT: Basically, it's more of a gripe I have with the setting, than anything not being explained. I probably should've said so from the start. The church had no involvement earlier on, they only began overseeing it from the 3rd war. It's not that it can't be done anywhere but Japan, but that in the time of the 1st war it was an ideal location, being sort of off the radar. Really, even then the only purpose of the church is to hold unused Command Seals and try to cover up any major supernatural occurances. Also, Tohsaka is most definitely Japanese, but Makiri/later Matou is not. |
JOHJJun 16, 2012 6:00 PM
| The Tohsaka family is connected to both the Church and the Magic Association, that's actually why Risei manipulated the rules in favor of Tokiomi and even gave him a Master to use as a tool (Kirei). About Lancelot: It's not that he knew or didn't know Saber was a woman. He knew of course, Lancelot was amongst his closest Knights. Lancelot wanted Saber to kill him because it was his fault that Camelot began it's road to ruin yet he was not punished. ALl he got was exile while Guenivere was ordered to be executed (Lancelot saves her which is pretty much the first internal conflict in Camelot under Arthur's rule and ends up in several of Saber's top knights dead). loub31 said: Someone found out and ratted them out which forced Saber to do her kingly duties and uphold the law. He can't exactly have a queen sleeping with other men, that'd diminish the position of the King.Now I'm confusing Lancelot know that Saber is a woman and Saber didn't mind Lancelot and the Queen having an affair .... why they didnt keep it a secret between them and it's over ... thus Arthur dont need to execute Gwenivere |
 |
| darn the action is awesome and so Kiritsugu done the good thing here since the Grail is not gonna do a miracle but rather it will exaggerate your beliefs, in this case Kiritsugu always believe that killing less people to save more people, but the grail is about to exaggerate that belief into a wish to destroy most of people in the world lol, WTF Holy Grail is right there |
| Wasn't it said some episodes earlier that for the grail to be summoned all 7 servants must be sacrificed/killed? How is it that it appear out like that. |
_Yamainu said: No, It's said it needs six servants to grant any wish, and 7 to open the portal to the Root. I dunno if Zero ever says it but Stay Night says, several times in fact, that the Grail will show up after a set amount of time regardless of what happens (it's 2 weeks actually). Of course, the less Servants it has the less power it posesses.Wasn't it said some episodes earlier that for the grail to be summoned all 7 servants must be sacrificed/killed? How is it that it appear out like that. |
|
dio_brando86 said: Thess said: |
ThessJun 16, 2012 7:54 PM
| despite this being the second last episode i found myself confused as to what was happening half the time lol but man was this episode pretty to look at |
 |
Thess said: dio_brando86 said: Thess said: Well Rin did say that she detects masters by sensing their circuits making magical energy. At that point Kirei wasn't producing any and was just living off the small amount still left in his body. Maybe that's why they couldn't detect him. And Sakura probably didn't expect him to live anyways since people normally die when they are killed... |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
Thess said: dio_brando86 said: Thess said: |
_Yamainu said: That's to access the root. You only need to kill six to get the grail.Wasn't it said some episodes earlier that for the grail to be summoned all 7 servants must be sacrificed/killed? How is it that it appear out like that. |
| I wonder why people,whether they are haters or a fanboys/girls,make accounts just to post one thing in a episode discussion in some site. |
fimbu1vetr said: anonvulture said: I thought it was pretty clear they were operating under time constraints and it makes me sad. Well not sad enough for me to give it a 1 or 2/5 nerdrage vote. Might as well provide a list of stuff: Liked: -Kirei vs Kiritsugu. Could have been longer sure, could have been more accurate to the LN sure, though I thought it came out good enough for me to like it. Not exactly sure why Kiritsugu threw his Calico away when he knew how vital it was in close quarters (drop it/sheathe it instead?) I disliked the LN decision of having the more-or-less standard human Kirei... ...facing a *stupidly high muzzle velocity* gun loaded with special anti-magus rape bullets... ...at around 15 feet away (which is really fucking close)... ...deflect it with his fleshy bare fists for no fucking damage. I don't care how elite your training is, or how awesome the character is (and Kirei is really fucking awesome don't get me wrong), if you're a standard human that shit should not happen. So no loss for me if ufotable decided to rewrite that so that some damage is done but not completely taking Kirei out of the game. Maybe they thought the original LN conception was stupid enough to rewrite, and if so I agree. Also liked: -Scene (inside?) the Grail. Pretty good deconstruction of Kiritsugu here along with plenty of brutal killing to illustrate a point. Meh: -Saber vs Archer. Pretty sudden there. I guess the general idea got across but guess need to wait for the BDs to come out in order for it to get better. Really disliked: -Saber vs Berserker. The hell was that? I guess it really was time constraints here because I can't think of any good explanation for that massive rushjob of a fight where Saber wins out of nowhere against an absurdly strong servant that she was psychologically weak against. BDs are needed for that one. I reread the Kirei/Kiritsugu fight and I didn’t really see any big differences in the anime fight. Kiritsugu threw away his gun cuz it ran out of ammo. Kirei did take damage from deflecting Kiritsugu’s bullet (I believe the LN said his muscles were over stressed from using the command seal on them). Kirei is an executor and I can see it happening with a command seal. I dont see why its confusing that Saber wins if you’ve read the LN. In the anime, we do see Kariya collapse, then Saber killing Berserker. This doesn’t deviate from the LN aside from cutting out a lot of dialogue Saber vs Berserker was nothing like the LN and it wasnt just dialogue(I dont care about the flashback but that wasnt even a fight unlike the LN) |
fimbu1vetr said: ssjokg said: Saber vs Berserker was nothing like the LN and it wasnt just dialogue(I dont care about the flashback but that wasnt even a fight unlike the LN) I was only talking about Berserker's death. But I don't recall the fight all that well; what did the anime specifically do wrong with the fight aside from the flashback? Like I said it was nothing like the LN.Saber was hit 3 or 4 times ,scene changes and when we are back to this battle Lancelot was already stabbed. |
ssjokgJun 16, 2012 8:39 PM
| Powerful episode. Oh and wow the whiners....it wasn't butchered. It was great and it could of been greater. I agree, it was a little rushed. This would of benefited being split between two episodes. Fact of the matter is the only thing that got nipped was a battle/dialogue sequence. I'm not even going to waste my time writing a monologue nobody will read about people complaining about one of the best action-drama anime (on every graded level) to roll through in a while. Majority love it. Saber haters are butt hurt. |
IZEROIIJun 16, 2012 8:59 PM
fimbu1vetr said: ssjokg said: fimbu1vetr said: ssjokg said: Saber vs Berserker was nothing like the LN and it wasnt just dialogue(I dont care about the flashback but that wasnt even a fight unlike the LN) I was only talking about Berserker's death. But I don't recall the fight all that well; what did the anime specifically do wrong with the fight aside from the flashback? Like I said it was nothing like the LN.Saber was hit 3 or 4 times ,scene changes and when we are back to this battle Lancelot was already stabbed. I guess it was just rushed/they expected you to get that Kariya ran out of prana. A shame. It's like making Rider use his RM and then have him running towards Gil expecting us to realize that Gil destroyed it with Ea.If the BDs change that I will stop bitching about it. |
anonvulture said: I disliked the LN decision of having the more-or-less standard human Kirei... ...facing a *stupidly high muzzle velocity* gun loaded with special anti-magus rape bullets... ...at around 15 feet away (which is really fucking close)... ...deflect it with his fleshy bare fists for no fucking damage. I don't care how elite your training is, or how awesome the character is (and Kirei is really fucking awesome don't get me wrong), if you're a standard human that shit should not happen. Kirei isn't a standard human. He's an Executor. He broke a tree in half with two pelvic thrusts and no magic involved earlier. It's pretty obvious since HF where he goes against Hassan and Zouken combined and runs 50 km/h, he's not really a normal guy. You remember he hit Shirou's noble phantasm-like protected body without breaking his fist? Anyway, his arm was a little wounded in the novels too, but not seemly broken? I think they should have tried to capture this: Monster. There were no other words to describe the man before him. At this moment, Kotomine Kirei’s battle prowess could be considered that of a desperate man. Just what kind of willpower was required for a living man to drill his own body into such a terrifying lethal weapon? |
ThessJun 16, 2012 9:07 PM
THAT HOLY GRAIL IS STUPID!!! |
| The Most Epic Episode Ever In The History For Me. Fate, UBW And HF Route In Fate/Stay Night Are All Clearly Answered/Explained On This Episode. Why Can't I Give This Series A Rating Higher Than 10? D: Next Episode, Emiya Shirou? |
 |
fimbu1vetr said: ssjokg said: fimbu1vetr said: ssjokg said: fimbu1vetr said: ssjokg said: Saber vs Berserker was nothing like the LN and it wasnt just dialogue(I dont care about the flashback but that wasnt even a fight unlike the LN) I was only talking about Berserker's death. But I don't recall the fight all that well; what did the anime specifically do wrong with the fight aside from the flashback? Like I said it was nothing like the LN.Saber was hit 3 or 4 times ,scene changes and when we are back to this battle Lancelot was already stabbed. I guess it was just rushed/they expected you to get that Kariya ran out of prana. A shame. It's like making Rider use his RM and then have him running towards Gil expecting us to realize that Gil destroyed it with Ea.If the BDs change that I will stop bitching about it. Hope they do that. Btw, it was kind of annoying that Rider's army didnt have horses in the anime. They do in the LN and Ionioi Hetairoi is supposed to mean Companion Calvary... I wouldnt mind if they add some in the BDs but I dont get how Ionioi Hetaroi means Companion Calvary.Hetairoi indeed means companion but Ionioi is eitherAionioi(eternal) written wrong, or Ionians, the Greek tribes in Asia Minor. |
| Both Kiritsugu and Kirei are DA MAN!! Kiritsugu acted like a real bro towards Saber back there, ungrateful bitch should be on all fours pledging loyalty. Gilgamesh is pro as well, not on the same league as the former pimps (Kirei and Kiritsugu), but he makes do with that corner pimp attitude. Very enjoyable episode, Saber's face was like a chick's first anal face, lovely. |
634754Jun 16, 2012 9:19 PM
 |
| Crap! What a frustrating episode. Lots of potential, but its flow was completely destroyed in the most ham-handed way imaginable. Despite all the neglect of du Lac over two seasons, the show could have redeemed itself with an epic fight here. And it looked like there was about to be one. While I like Sabre a lot, Lance was the greater knight. It should have made for a tough fight. This half-assed non-battle is the proverbial fumble on the 5-yard line. And they booted it again with the constant channel-changing between the two knights and Kiritsugu and Kotomine. And then they added in the grail to destroy all the remaining pent up energy. Finally, I'm getting irked with all the dying that Irisviel is doing in this show. And really finally, those two stupid, wasted island episodes could have been put to better use just around now. |
| Expect next episode to have shit pacing. No way they can cram everything including the epilogue within 23 minutes without further butchering the story. |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
ssjokg said: belatkuro said: Kerry vs Kirei was satisfactory at most parts. But that second block by Kirei of the Contender was disappointing. Where's my whirlwind punch that deflected the bullet and not absorbed it? And wtf happened to the Berserker vs Saber part. Why is is so gimped? Where's my flashbacks and the post battle talk. Dammit, BDs for sure. The Grail part was very satisfying though. Full of despair. Kerry's despair for the outcome of his wish was just...wow. And I knew it would end at that part. Saber's despair at Kerry's last commands. Really, aside from the Berserker vs Saber part, this would have been an awesome episode. Dammit. Last episode next week. And where F/Z ends, F/SN begins, as evident in the preview. Happy Father's Day. Dammit ufotable, you're doing this on purpose Forget the flashback.There was no despair,Saber successfullydeflected Lancelot's attacks in the anime,Lancelot's "death" was the most disappointing scene in both seasons and she didnt resist at all against the command sealsl.Even in the first it was just Excalibur revealing itself.... BD's better be good. 2/5 and it's the first time I rated a FZ ep below 5 Trust me no one really gives a shit (specially the producers) if you gave this show a big ass 0 or a 10, just to let you know and help you on your feet, ya feel me? |
| |
More topics from this board
» What's next?infinite_Shadows - Apr 10 |
13 |
by Ain2Zwei
»»
Apr 15, 4:48 PM |
|
Poll: » Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 12 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Jun 23, 2012 |
1325 |
by Joel77
»»
Mar 25, 11:30 PM |
|
Poll: » Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 10 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Yumekichi11 - Jun 9, 2012 |
728 |
by damnit_tomioka
»»
Mar 18, 2:06 PM |
|
Poll: » Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )belatkuro - Apr 28, 2012 |
585 |
by goodwake
»»
Mar 9, 11:00 PM |
|
» is it necessary to watch fate stay/night 2006 ?Mugiwarayaa___ - Feb 25 |
24 |
by mykuza
»»
Feb 26, 2:46 AM |