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Jun 10, 2012 3:09 AM

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Sign me up for Heaven's feel
 
Jun 10, 2012 9:18 AM

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Lumathy said:
There was already a F/SN adaption (not that old), it's not that necessary really.


No there was not. :)

"Latex/Stupid Fillers" does not count.

I could care less about heaven's feel, but I certainly would like them to make 13 episode long UBW. Ufotable has shown that they understand the level of animation and overpowered that is needed to correctly display FSN battles and they most likely would do justice to Shirou's awesome character and psychology.
 
Jun 10, 2012 10:51 AM

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Fai said:
I could care less about heaven's feel, but I certainly would like them to make 13 episode long UBW. Ufotable has shown that they understand the level of animation and overpowered that is needed to correctly display FSN battles and they most likely would do justice to Shirou's awesome character and psychology.

That would require monologues. Lots and lots of monologues. That "awesome character and psychology" was not displayed in Shiro's dialogue. It would be tedious rather than impressive.

Heavens feel in general is a bit up and down in quality. The start of it is dead slow with the first battle being a pure disappointment. By my estimates it would take at least 6 episodes before it started getting good as the beginning was held up with much harem hijinks. Honestly though we all want heavens feel for the ending scenes as they are pretty epic.

"I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila."

 
Jun 10, 2012 10:52 AM

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Colour me sceptical. The original F/SN adaption wasn't underwhelming because it was poorly adapted, it was underwhelming because the visual novel is impossible to adapt satisfactorily into a single story. You can only really adapt it by doing the three routes one after the other, which is less a studio change, more a complete change in approach. This is hardly like KyoAni and Kanon. I'd prefer they applied their talents to go and adapt something else which better fits the single-story mode of television serial. (Or do something original, of course.)
 
Jun 10, 2012 10:55 AM

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Let's see (it doesn't hurt to dream huh?):

Fate can work if you tweak some details and make it darker and edgier. You need to re-write the Saber/Shirou relationship because it was pretty painful sometimes.

UBW is the worst route to connect to Zero. It's filled with unimportant things from a plot standpoint. Basically it focus on Archer who has zero connection to F/Z. Therefore, it'll look pretty ridiculous.

Heaven's Feel would work the best after Fate/Zero. The love interest make sense, creepy/dark atmosphere, they solve the plot, etc. There needs to be some rewriting for pacing purpose. Remove a chunk of the slice of life scene (but this is in every single route), add more Servant bits (in particular of Saber and Gilgamesh). Have Gen as scriptwriter.

ssjokg said:
@Lumathy
I dont think so.Since they could handle the Caster Team scenes fine,I dont see the problem with the gore of HF or the sex scenes.They can use the Realta nua version or just imply it.Yosuga no sora(other studio but anyway) did have sex scenes so I dont she the problem with HF.
Or make some ova(but the wait will kill me like Hellsing Ultimate)


They can just fade to black. They can't use Realta Nua with Sakura because it destroys the backstory that was told in Fate/Zero. Have Rider suck Shirou's blood in the dream, though.
Modified by Thess, Jun 10, 2012 11:00 AM
 
Jun 10, 2012 11:00 AM

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logopolis said:
Colour me sceptical. The original F/SN adaption wasn't underwhelming because it was poorly adapted, it was underwhelming because the visual novel is impossible to adapt satisfactorily into a single story. You can only really adapt it by doing the three routes one after the other, which is less a studio change, more a complete change in approach. This is hardly like KyoAni and Kanon. I'd prefer they applied their talents to go and adapt something else which better fits the single-story mode of television serial. (Or do something original, of course.)


Well in FSN you CANT mix the routes.The point is Deen ruined Fate route and UBW.The first had such a bad pacing that until ep 14 and after 15 it become bad again.UBW being adapted as a movie was a really bad idea.It was only worth for the fights were even there they did whatever they liked.
 
Jun 10, 2012 11:03 AM

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AidanAK47 said:
Fai said:
I could care less about heaven's feel, but I certainly would like them to make 13 episode long UBW. Ufotable has shown that they understand the level of animation and overpowered that is needed to correctly display FSN battles and they most likely would do justice to Shirou's awesome character and psychology.

That would require monologues. Lots and lots of monologues. That "awesome character and psychology" was not displayed in Shiro's dialogue. It would be tedious rather than impressive.


There's nothing wrong with monologues, especially nasuverse ones.

DEEN already tried to turn FSN into downright pure "action animu". They failed. because its not action animu. Its pseudo philosophical...thing with action. thats how it should be. Monologues are the must.

logopolis said:
Colour me sceptical. The original F/SN adaption wasn't underwhelming because it was poorly adapted, it was underwhelming because the visual novel is impossible to adapt satisfactorily into a single story. You can only really adapt it by doing the three routes one after the other, which is less a studio change, more a complete change in approach. This is hardly like KyoAni and Kanon. I'd prefer they applied their talents to go and adapt something else which better fits the single-story mode of television serial. (Or do something original, of course.)


Which is EXACTLY how it should have been approached.

it downright STATES in the game that ALL ROUTES HAPPEN. FSN is story of three(four) parallel dimensions.
 
Jun 10, 2012 11:09 AM

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Fai said:


it downright STATES in the game that ALL ROUTES HAPPEN. FSN is story of three(four) parallel dimensions.


More than that. You're only counting the true endings. All the endings are canon. Shirou died in most cases.
 
Jun 10, 2012 11:11 AM

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Thess said:


Heaven's Feel would work the best after Fate/Zero. The love interest make sense, creepy/dark atmosphere, they solve the plot, etc. There needs to be some rewriting for pacing purpose. Remove a chunk of the slice of life scene (but this is in every single route), add more Servant bits (in particular of Saber and Gilgamesh). Have Gen as scriptwriter.

^THIS
They can just fade to black. They can't use Realta Nua with Sakura because it destroys the backstory that was told in Fate/Zero. Have Rider suck Shirou's blood in the dream, though.


Yeah because as you noticed those unfamiliar with Fateverse notice these "details",theywould either go" where is the action" or "stupid fanservice"...And I dont care about Sakura's sex scenes.OK that was a lie,but between animated HF without them or no HF at all,I prefer Sakura becoming Dracula.
 
Jun 10, 2012 11:15 AM

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ssjokg said:
Yeah because as you noticed those unfamiliar with Fateverse notice these "details",theywould either go" where is the action" or "stupid fanservice"...And I dont care about Sakura's sex scenes.OK that was a lie,but between animated HF without them or no HF at all,I prefer Sakura becoming Dracula.


They should just kiss and pan out.
 
Jun 10, 2012 11:23 AM

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Fai said:
AidanAK47 said:
Fai said:
I could care less about heaven's feel, but I certainly would like them to make 13 episode long UBW. Ufotable has shown that they understand the level of animation and overpowered that is needed to correctly display FSN battles and they most likely would do justice to Shirou's awesome character and psychology.

That would require monologues. Lots and lots of monologues. That "awesome character and psychology" was not displayed in Shiro's dialogue. It would be tedious rather than impressive.


There's nothing wrong with monologues, especially nasuverse ones.

DEEN already tried to turn FSN into downright pure "action animu". They failed. because its not action animu. Its pseudo philosophical...thing with action. thats how it should be. Monologues are the must.


They can get very pretentious. Have you tried rereading the visual novel? I did and let me tell you that those monologues get pretty boring. When you get down to it they are the same as his infodumps. It's just repeating the same thing in numerous purposely fragmented ways so that when the reader actually gets it then it gets the impression of being deep and meaningful. However that's not the case. It's just that the explanations were beating around the bush.

Fai said:
Which is EXACTLY how it should have been approached.

it downright STATES in the game that ALL ROUTES HAPPEN. FSN is story of three(four) parallel dimensions.


Good luck finding a studio willing to adapt all three routes one after the other. Doesn't matter how popular it is. There ain't a chance in hell that's going to happen.

"I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila."

 
Jun 10, 2012 12:25 PM

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AidanAK47 said:

Good luck finding a studio willing to adapt all three routes one after the other. Doesn't matter how popular it is. There ain't a chance in hell that's going to happen.


Huh, if it actually sells well i'm sure studios would gladly do it.
 
Jun 10, 2012 1:27 PM

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The main problem with animating all 3 routs of f/sn separately is that the first 1/3 of the story in all 3 of them is 99% the same. They are the parts that you read once in the Fate route and then skipped in the other 2, because repeating the same things is boring. They can't even make that 1/3 a big prologue and then make the rest 3 arcs, Higurashi-style, because that 1% that differs is actually the important stuff that determines which route will occur.
So, the only way would be to do what they did in the UBW movie, ie skip through that first parts in lightning speed - which totally breaks the flow of the story, as anyone who watched that movie will undoubtedly know.

It's not just a mattar of "are there enough people interested for it to make it's money back"
You simply have to understand that certain things simply can't translate well when transfered to certain media. Extensive inner monologues and narrator monologues simply do not work outside of written stories. Choose-your-story, which is perfectly feasible in VNs/games and, to a lesser extend, books, simply can't properly happen in a non-interactive TV series or in a movie. That doesn't mean that daptations are bad - it just means that the source material has to be tampered with in certain ways before it can be adapted. The producers have to substitute certain things with others pick one of the multiple available stories, because there is no other realistic way for the series/film to work.

So, a HF adaptation? Unlikely, but perfectly possible. An adaptation of all the routes in a row? Highly unlikely and not that possible...
 
Jun 10, 2012 1:31 PM

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There once was a director who had the balls to air the same episode 8 weeks in a row with different swim suits. They could just do those early parts again for all 3 routes, while perhaps not ideal for viewers who get bored easily it isn't something that is completely out of the question.
 
Jun 10, 2012 1:39 PM

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jpem said:
There once was a director who had the balls to air the same episode 8 weeks in a row with different swim suits.


Aaaaaaand it passed down in Anime history as the 2nd worst decission ever, right below the decission to give an OVA clearence to "Mars of Destruction"... with the difference that MoD was actually entertaining, in how hilariously bad it was, while Endless Eight was so wrist-slitting-boring that half the audience quit the series and the other half needed anti-depressants to finish it...
 
Jun 10, 2012 2:02 PM

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Wasn't my point. Was just saying such a thing is not impossible. And the problem would be even less with F/SN as you wouldn't be watching the same episodes week to week, but over an extensive period of time considering they probably wouldn't run all three at the same time.

Also consider how people love both FMA:Brotherhood and the original Fullmetal despite both starting covering the same stuff. As long as the rest is interesting fans will be able to deal with the start being the same as is the case with that franchise.
 
Jun 10, 2012 2:08 PM

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jpem said:
Wasn't my point. Was just saying such a thing is not impossible. And the problem would be even less with F/SN as you wouldn't be watching the same episodes week to week, but over an extensive period of time considering they probably wouldn't run all three at the same time.

Also consider how people love both FMA:Brotherhood and the original Fullmetal despite both starting covering the same stuff. As long as the rest is interesting fans will be able to deal with the start being the same as is the case with that franchise.


Wasn't saying it's impossible as in "can't be done", but rather as in "can't be made properly"

Also, FMA:B was not a back-to-back adaptation of 2 routes - it was a re-adaptation of a classic, several years from the original. Not at all the same thing...
 
Jun 10, 2012 2:09 PM

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Use Cherry Blossom Dreams as the anime ending. All the Good in This Life, Sparks Liner High, Femme Fatale, and Mind of Steel endings be included in bluray. Watch the sales go up.
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
Jun 10, 2012 2:35 PM

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The only difference is the time between them. And no has said they need to be back to back. They could do one every couple of years and it would still be fine.
 
Jun 10, 2012 2:56 PM

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jpem said:
The only difference is the time between them. And no has said they need to be back to back. They could do one every couple of years and it would still be fine.


It was a difference of 6 years worth of progress in Animation and video quality. 6 years in which we went from DVDs and 640x480 CRTs to Blue Ray and 1080p 120Hz LED LCD...
For all intends and purposes, this was less of a 2nd route and more of an HD remake of the original.

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AidanAK47 said:

Good luck finding a studio willing to adapt all three routes one after the other. Doesn't matter how popular it is. There ain't a chance in hell that's going to happen.


I believe we were supposed to be talking about this^ all this all this time... which is back-to-back adaptation... which will not happen.

Because if we are not talking back-to-back, we just need Deen to adapt HF and there you go, all 3 routes adapted.
Modified by Pan151, Jun 10, 2012 2:59 PM
 
Jun 10, 2012 3:02 PM

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Pan151 said:

Because if we are not talking back-to-back, we just need Deen to adapt HF and there you go, all 3 routes adapted.

NO.
 
Jun 10, 2012 3:15 PM

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HD remake of the original? Hardly they are completely different after a certain point.

And the original one after the other comment was referring to doing the them separately as adaptions, rather than all three routes in one series(like as that guy mentioned Kanon where all the routes were in one show).

What i'm saying by back to back is quite different from that. The reason just having Deen wouldn't be fine is that their other 2 adaptions were bad adaptions. The fans don't just want want adaptions of all three routes but good adaptions of all three routes, and ufotable has proven themselves to type-moon fans with their KnK and F/Z adaptions.
 
Jun 10, 2012 3:19 PM

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jpem said:
There once was a director who had the balls to air the same episode 8 weeks in a row with different swim suits.


That was different, it was a worthwhile experiment with a good reason behind it. (Even if the experiment failed; experiments do that sometimes. If you never risk failure, you'll never achieve success.)
 
Jun 10, 2012 3:28 PM

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logopolis said:
jpem said:
There once was a director who had the balls to air the same episode 8 weeks in a row with different swim suits.


That was different, it was a worthwhile experiment with a good reason behind it. (Even if the experiment failed; experiments do that sometimes. If you never risk failure, you'll never achieve success.)


The bad thing is that the ones that should read this thread(ufotable of course) arent here.
 
Jun 10, 2012 3:31 PM

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logopolis said:
jpem said:
There once was a director who had the balls to air the same episode 8 weeks in a row with different swim suits.


That was different, it was a worthwhile experiment with a good reason behind it. (Even if the experiment failed; experiments do that sometimes. If you never risk failure, you'll never achieve success.)


It failed because of how extreme it is. Having a few repeat episodes at the start of each adaption, that even if they are aired one after another will leave months in between watching those repeated episodes, is significantly less extreme so shouldn't fail any where near as hard. If the rest of the show was good it would certainly be able to carry those few episodes.
 
Jun 10, 2012 3:45 PM

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jpem said:
It failed because of how extreme it is. Having a few repeat episodes at the start of each adaption, that even if they are aired one after another will leave months in between watching those repeated episodes, is significantly less extreme so shouldn't fail any where near as hard. If the rest of the show was good it would certainly be able to carry those few episodes.


What? It failed because the people watching it didn't want to go too far away from the base standard of entertainment, it turns out that really sharing in the frustrations of Yuki and experiencing a bit of what she experiences is the story is a bit too... frustrating for televisual entertainment. It was all about not knowing what the audience really wants.

An adaption which keeps going over more or less the same material isn't trying to do anything. It's just running up against a weakness of necessity. If Ufotable were to do something which doesn't have any weaknesses of necessity, they should be able to produce better work. Wanting them to put their talents into an adaption with an inherent problem is just fannishness.
 
Jun 10, 2012 3:53 PM

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Exactly. 8 episodes in a row is extreme and not enjoyable. It made up most of the show. You guys make it seem like the stuff that will get redone in all three adaptions does the same, which it just doesn't. They separate into new arcs pretty early on and are completely different from there on out. There isn't a problem unless you let there be.

iirc, the routes branch off at around day 3. 3 of 16. And the later days contain more events, so it isn't that much of the story that needs to be redone in each show. Something that can surely be done be done within a few episodes. You would have to have little to no patience to not be able to deal with a few of episodes.
 
Jun 10, 2012 3:55 PM

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Then,if we are talking ufotable re adapting Fate and UBW ,then let them make prologue and Fate together and for the UBW and HF start the story from Archer vs Lancer.

You would say that it's retarded to do that since newcomers wouldnt understand it.But some were stupid enough to start watching FZ 2nd season before the first...-_-

I mean UBW and HF are called the second and third routes for a reason.They arent sequels for sure but with a little bit of logic you chose to see the first route.Then again I speak for myself...
 
Jun 10, 2012 4:05 PM

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ssjokg said:
Then,if we are talking ufotable re adapting Fate and UBW ,then let them make prologue and Fate together and for the UBW and HF start the story from Archer vs Lancer.

You would say that it's retarded to do that since newcomers wouldnt understand it.But some were stupid enough to start watching FZ 2nd season before the first...-_-

I mean UBW and HF are called the second and third routes for a reason.They arent sequels for sure but with a little bit of logic you chose to see the first route.Then again I speak for myself...


That could be fine too imo. Sure a little bit of an inconvenience, but hardly so much that the show doesn't deserve to get a quality adaption as a result.
 
Jun 10, 2012 4:32 PM

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ssjokg said:
Then,if we are talking ufotable re adapting Fate and UBW ,then let them make prologue and Fate together and for the UBW and HF start the story from Archer vs Lancer.

You would say that it's retarded to do that since newcomers wouldnt understand it.But some were stupid enough to start watching FZ 2nd season before the first...-_-

I mean UBW and HF are called the second and third routes for a reason.They arent sequels for sure but with a little bit of logic you chose to see the first route.Then again I speak for myself...


The problem is that the routes do not start really differenciating until the first appearence of Berserker, while at the same time having a number of subtle but important changes up until then. That is a bit too far in.

And even in the rest of the route... once you've seen Fate, you've seen 75% of the overall plot. You know the identities of half the masters and the servants, the antagonists etc... the 3 routes are not THAT different to each other...


Making it into 3 separate series would only work with at least a couple years in between. Because excecuting a 3x24 or so episode project would be impossible within a short period of time, unless you want Bleach-like quality. Or unless you want 12-episode per route, which would be even worse and would't help much in the quality department anyway. And even if you could excecute it close to each other with perfect quality, it just needs to be spaced out - Fateverse has already had so many adaptations, and adaptin all 3 routes close to each other would not really help sparking the public's interest to watch everything...
And, yeah, it would be too unnecessarily big a project anyway...
Modified by Pan151, Jun 10, 2012 4:35 PM
 
Jun 10, 2012 4:34 PM

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Pan151 said:
ssjokg said:
Then,if we are talking ufotable re adapting Fate and UBW ,then let them make prologue and Fate together and for the UBW and HF start the story from Archer vs Lancer.

You would say that it's retarded to do that since newcomers wouldnt understand it.But some were stupid enough to start watching FZ 2nd season before the first...-_-

I mean UBW and HF are called the second and third routes for a reason.They arent sequels for sure but with a little bit of logic you chose to see the first route.Then again I speak for myself...


The problem is that the routes do not start really differenciating until the first appearence of Berserker, while at the same time having a number of subtle but important changes up until then. That is a bit too far in.

Making it into 3 separate series would only work with at least a couple years in between. Because excecuting a 3x24 or so episode project would be impossible within a short period of time, unless you want Bleach-like quality. Or unless you want 12-episode per route, which would be even worse and would't help much in the quality department anyway. And even if you could excecute it close to each other with perfect quality, it just needs to be spaced out - Fateverse has already had so many adaptations, and adaptin all 3 routes close to each other would not really help sparking the public's interest to watch everything...
And, yeah, it would be too unnecessarily big a project anyway...


And why can't it have a couple years in between?
 
Jun 10, 2012 4:43 PM

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jpem said:

And why can't it have a couple years in between?


Well, it sure can, but I don't really think that this is a model any animation studio would really like. "Hey guys, we have this nice project about animating all of the F/sn routes. We have purchased the rights, will start soon and plan to finish the whole thing in about 6 years. Yes, I know the 1st route has already been adapted intro a series. Yes I know that the 2nd one has already been adapted into a movie. Yes, I know that the only thing the audience hasn't already seen, and quite recently at that, is the 3rd route, which we won't even start animating for the next 4 or so years. Yes, I know that the 3-series investment is a bit too much for producing essencially one series that is actually new. And yes, I know that by the time we finish it half of you won't even be here anymore, so you don't really care anyway... But we'll do it anyway"

I don't know about you, but to me it doesn't really sound like a terribly good idea from a bussiness viewpoint... it would if the f/sn adaptations were done a few years further back, so that there was an actual reason to re-make them (ie they were done in 480p, we are re-doing them in 1080p, hurr-durr) buuut... no. There is no real reason for them to be redone. Yeah, I know, the adaptation was not exactly stellar, and yeah, the animation was somewhat dodgy at places, but come on, for as much hate as DEEN recieves for its adaptations, they are not that bad... I would even say I find them perfectly fine - sure they are not nearly as good as Ufotable's but there is a crucial point: DEEN was adapting a make-your-story Visual Novel the size of LotR. Ufotable were adapting a 100% linear light novel that can be read in half a day...
Modified by Pan151, Jun 10, 2012 4:52 PM
 
Jun 10, 2012 4:51 PM

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Sure if you spin it that way it sounds bad, but you forget to add that the first show and movie were terrible. And that Ufotable would probably give us worthy adaptions with quality animation and a good chance of Yuki Kajiura working on the ost. And you can barely call UBW an adaption, it was essentially a recap movie but there is no full series to go with it.

It really just comes down to patience. Which i and many other certainly have. 6 years isn't that long to wait to see them all done.
 
Jun 10, 2012 4:51 PM

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Actually waiting 5 or 6 years wouldnt be a problem for me as long as a studio like ufotable did the job and since I dont know any other studio like that(and since they are like Typemoon experts in animation),if they did a good job in re adapting Fate then honestly I wouldnt mind the wait.And I believe that you feel the same.

Come on we have been dreaming for a Fate remake for 6 years and even more for Tsukihime.

I didnt believe that FZ would get an adaption but it did and the result is pretty good.

And dont forget that even an ufotable adaption of HF is a dream for us.The same goes for re adapting Fate and UBW.Studio willingness aside, we were talking about how fans would feel of the remake.

If we are to talk about how good the idea would be from a studio's point of view then we,pretty much ,should stop dreaming....
 
Jun 10, 2012 4:57 PM

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jpem said:
Sure if you spin it that way it sounds bad, but you forget to add that the first show and movie were terrible. And that Ufotable would probably give us worthy adaptions with quality animation and a good chance of Yuki Kajiura working on the ost. And you can barely call UBW an adaption, it was essentially a recap movie but there is no full series to go with it.

It really just comes down to patience. Which i and many other certainly have. 6 years isn't that long to wait to see them all done.


Come on, they were not terrible... Blood C was terrible. Shingetsutan Tsukihime was terrible. F/sn could just have been better and, lets be honest - even the VN wasn't all that better in the first place...

I am not against it by any means (WHY would I be anyway) but it's not a matter of fan patience - it just makes no sense from a studio point of view. Why would they re-animate something that has already been done when there are new things to adapt? Even staying in Fate, why do F/sn again when there is Hollow Ataraxia?

And speaking of new things to adapt: I'm still waiting for that Umineko Chiru adaptation. I don't care if it's DEEN again, just someone make it happen already :(
Modified by Pan151, Jun 10, 2012 5:05 PM
 
Jun 10, 2012 5:05 PM

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I agree that the VN wasn't as significantly better as a lot of people claim. But UBW....it is entertaining after having read the VN. But when i watched it before hand it was absolute crap. They cut out so much, especially with Shirou's characterization as mentioned earlier. Same thing with the TV show. All you get is the Shirou that comes off as your generic moralfag. Never any of his inner thoughts, which is where most of his depth as a character come from. iirc they never did his dreams either, which forshadow his powers and prevent him from just pulling shit out of his ass in the most contrived manor. Not to mention when they tried to merge the routes a little bit in the later segments. And those are only a few points of many.

Somewhat entertaining as an anime, but not very good adaptions.

And they can't possibly do F/HA as from just looking at some game CG's it makes it pretty clear that you need knowledge of Heavens Feel.
Modified by jpem, Jun 10, 2012 5:10 PM
 
Jun 10, 2012 5:06 PM

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Pan151 said:
Yeah, I know, the adaptation was not exactly stellar, and yeah, the animation was somewhat dodgy at places, but come on, for as much hate as DEEN recieves for its adaptations, they are not that bad... I would even say I find them perfectly fine - sure they are not nearly as good as Ufotable's but there is a crucial point: DEEN was adapting a make-your-story Visual Novel the size of LotR. Ufotable were adapting a 100% linear light novel that can be read in half a day...

It's nice to see someone finally be reasonable with the DEEN adaptations.
And yeah, the adaptations were not terrible. Decent is what I would peg them. In all honestly they did their job. They got people interested in the visual novel. Hell, they got me reading visual novels. So they aren't really deserving of so much hate. They deserve some hate...but not this much.

"I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila."

 
Jun 10, 2012 5:13 PM

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It can also do the opposite. After watching the show i had absolutely no interest in the VN as i found the series completely overrated. Only read it as a friend on MAL got me interested in it.
 
Jun 10, 2012 5:14 PM

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jpem said:
I agree that the VN wasn't as significantly better as a lot of people claim. But UBW....it is entertaining after having read the VN. But when i watched it before hand it was absolute crap. They cut out so much, especially with Shirou's characterization as mentioned earlier. Same thing with the TV show. All you get is the Shirou that comes off as your generic moralfag. Never any of his inner thoughts, which is where most of his depth as a character come from. iirc they never did his dreams either, which forshadow his powers and prevent him from just pulling shit out of his ass in the most contrived manor. Not to mention when they tried to merge the routes a little bit in the later segments. And those are only a few points of many.

Somewhat entertaining as an anime, but not very good adaptions.


You gotta admit however that the way they adapted UBW was 100% true to the way the VN reader experiences it, at least at the beginning:

Skip Next Scene? >Yes
Skip Next Scene? >Yes
Skip Next Scene? >Yes
>Talk to Sakura
Skip Next Scene? >Yes
Skip Next Scene? >Yes
>Go to work
Skip Next Scene? >Yes

:D

jpem said:
And they can't possibly do F/HA as from just looking at some game CG's it makes it pretty clear that you need knowledge of Heavans Feel.


Why not? Nothing prevents from using a couple flashbacks here and there if truly necessary...
 
Jun 10, 2012 5:19 PM

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jpem said:
I agree that the VN wasn't as significantly better as a lot of people claim. But UBW....it is entertaining after having read the VN. But when i watched it before hand it was absolute crap. They cut out so much, especially with Shirou's characterization as mentioned earlier. Same thing with the TV show. All you get is the Shirou that comes off as your generic moralfag. Never any of his inner thoughts, which is where most of his depth as a character come from. iirc they never did his dreams either, which forshadow his powers and prevent him from just pulling shit out of his ass in the most contrived manor. Not to mention when they tried to merge the routes a little bit in the later segments. And those are only a few points of many.

I said this before but monologues(While ok in novel format) can become tedious in anime. As for the mixing of the routes, it's understandable why they did that. Same with showing Beserker and archers fight. The routes are not meant to be seen separately. But no matter what only one was going to be adapted. If DEEN followed Fate to a T then you would have people complaining that Assassin and Caster were just pointless cannon fodder. And Archer would be regarded as that guy who boasted like hell and died in a off screen fight. Also can you really blame the animation studio for Shiro's character not coming out in his dialogue? If anything that's the authors fault.

"I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila."

 
Jun 10, 2012 5:20 PM

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Pan151 said:


Skip Next Scene? >Yes
>Cook with Sakura
Skip Next Scene? >Yes
Skip Next Scene? >Yes
>Talk to Sakura
>Cook with Sakura
Skip Next Scene? >Yes
Skip Next Scene? >Yes
>Go to work
>Cook for Saber
Skip Next Scene? >Yes

:D

jpem said:
And they can't possibly do F/HA as from just looking at some game CG's it makes it pretty clear that you need knowledge of Heavans Feel.


Why not? Nothing prevents from using a couple flashbacks here and there if truly necessary...


Fix'd

And sure they could do that but wouldn't it be rather half assed to do it that way? From what i understand it is essentially a fandisc, might as well at least do the final main route in a Heavens Feel adaption first even if they don't bother to remake the others.
 
Jun 10, 2012 5:23 PM

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AidanAK47 said:
jpem said:
I agree that the VN wasn't as significantly better as a lot of people claim. But UBW....it is entertaining after having read the VN. But when i watched it before hand it was absolute crap. They cut out so much, especially with Shirou's characterization as mentioned earlier. Same thing with the TV show. All you get is the Shirou that comes off as your generic moralfag. Never any of his inner thoughts, which is where most of his depth as a character come from. iirc they never did his dreams either, which forshadow his powers and prevent him from just pulling shit out of his ass in the most contrived manor. Not to mention when they tried to merge the routes a little bit in the later segments. And those are only a few points of many.

I said this before but monologues(While ok in novel format) can become tedious in anime. As for the mixing of the routes, it's understandable why they did that. Same with showing Beserker and archers fight. The routes are not meant to be seen separately. But no matter what only one was going to be adapted. If DEEN followed Fate to a T then you would have people complaining that Assassin and Caster were just pointless cannon fodder. And Archer would be regarded as that guy who boasted like hell and died in a off screen fight. Also can you really blame the animation studio for Shiro's character not coming out in his dialogue? If anything that's the authors fault.


Yeah they get could get tedious if they kept repeating themselves like in the VN. I agree there. One of my biggest annoyances with that was that they would say things over and over again. I'm sure they could figure out a way to convey the same things the monologues conveyed without beating around the bush so much. I don't mind liberties being taken with stuff as long as they are for the better, they just happened to be for the worse more often than not with the show.
 
Jun 10, 2012 5:23 PM

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jpem said:

And sure they could do that but wouldn't it be rather half assed to do it that way? From what i understand it is essentially a fandisc, might as well at least do the final main route in a Heavens Feel adaption first even if they don't bother to remake the others.


Well, F/Z also requires knowledge of HF to trully appreciate it and I don't see anyone complaining about that...

And anyway, it's a sequel. Sequels are not supposed to stand by themselves. When you make a sequel, the first thing you have ton say to your fans is "Take things from the start: here's the prequel... done with it? Ok, lets get started then"
Modified by Pan151, Jun 10, 2012 5:28 PM
 
Jun 10, 2012 5:23 PM

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Surely I have to thank Deen for making me read both FSN and Umineko.But after seeing both of them I would prefer it if someone like Ufotable had done the job.And as far as I know Deen made a bad name for itself from FSN and Umineko adaptions.Higurashi and the rest I have seen were pretty good compared to Umineko and FSN.
And if FSN was a bad adaption Umineko was even worse.If Shirou looked stupid with his ideals(yeah he was like that in the VN but the anime multiplied it)then Battler was the ultimate retard.In the entire show you were watching a guy trying to prove that the witch in front of him wasnt real.
Beato:1+1=2 .
Battler:Igiari bitch!!
.Never trying to explain how the meta-world works along with other stuff ruined the anime.

So I dont want a chiru anime from deen

Pan151 said:

You gotta admit however that the way they adapted UBW was 100% true to the way the VN reader experiences it, at least at the beginning:

Skip Next Scene? >Yes
Skip Next Scene? >Yes
Skip Next Scene? >Yes
>Talk to Sakura
Skip Next Scene? >Yes
Skip Next Scene? >Yes
>Go to work
Skip Next Scene? >Yes

:D

That was a good one XD
 
Jun 10, 2012 5:28 PM

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Pan151 said:
jpem said:

And sure they could do that but wouldn't it be rather half assed to do it that way? From what i understand it is essentially a fandisc, might as well at least do the final main route in a Heavens Feel adaption first even if they don't bother to remake the others.


Well, F/Z also requires knowledge of HF to trully appreciate it and I don't see anyone complaining about that...


But it does plenty to be interesting for people without that, and is a prequel for the the series as a whole, rather than a sequel. And it has a concrete position in the universe for all 3 routes, whereas F/HA doesn't.
 
Jun 10, 2012 5:29 PM

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ssjokg said:
Surely I have to thank Deen for making me read both FSN and Umineko.But after seeing both of them I would prefer it if someone like Ufotable had done the job.And as far as I know Deen made a bad name for itself from FSN and Umineko adaptions.Higurashi and the rest I have seen were pretty good compared to Umineko and FSN.
And if FSN was a bad adaption Umineko was even worse.If Shirou looked stupid with his ideals(yeah he was like that in the VN but the anime multiplied it)then Battler was the ultimate retard.In the entire show you were watching a guy trying to prove that the witch in front of him wasnt real.
Beato:1+1=2 .
Battler:Igiari bitch!!
.Never trying to explain how the meta-world works along with other stuff ruined the anime.

So I dont want a chiru anime from deen


If you read the Visual novel you should understand that an Umineko adaptation was impossible from the get go. I say at least they tried but I am pretty sure that neither Madhouse or bones or UFOtable could pull off Umineko.
I mean just imagine the budget needed for the last arc of Chiru alone...

"I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila."

 
Jun 10, 2012 5:35 PM

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AidanAK47 said:


If you read the Visual novel you should understand that an Umineko adaptation was impossible from the get go. I say at least they tried but I am pretty sure that neither Madhouse or bones or UFOtable could pull off Umineko.
I mean just imagine the budget needed for the last arc of Chiru alone...


Yeah I know, but:
I havent read Higurashi but if they could do a decent adaption of it then they chould have tried a bit harder with Umineko.Or make one season for ep 1-2 and another for 3-4.And if that worked then move on to Chiru.

With uminko's bd/dvd sales I doubt we will ever see chiru anyway so no worries there...
 
Jun 10, 2012 5:40 PM

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ssjokg said:
AidanAK47 said:


If you read the Visual novel you should understand that an Umineko adaptation was impossible from the get go. I say at least they tried but I am pretty sure that neither Madhouse or bones or UFOtable could pull off Umineko.
I mean just imagine the budget needed for the last arc of Chiru alone...


Yeah I know, but:
I havent read Higurashi but if they could do a decent adaption of it then they chould have tried a bit harder with Umineko.Or make one season for ep 1-2 and another for 3-4.And if that worked then move on to Chiru.

With uminko's bd/dvd sales I doubt we will ever see chiru anyway so no worries there...

Come on mate, don't be unreasonable. Two arcs into a 24 episode anime? Then you got pacing issues. There is no winning scenario. Plus Higurashi and Umineko are completely different.

"I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila."

 
Jun 10, 2012 5:44 PM

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AidanAK47 said:

If you read the Visual novel you should understand that an Umineko adaptation was impossible from the get go. I say at least they tried but I am pretty sure that neither Madhouse or bones or UFOtable could pull off Umineko.


Yeah, pretty much. I haven't read the first 4 episodes, but if they are anywhere near as complex as the last 4... man, I'm glad they even tried to... The whole thing is littered with countless obscure hints, and there was no way to include all the ones that were necessary for solving the mystery, because the answer arcs had not even been finished at that time. Even if they got Ryukishi himself to write the script, they'd have to make like 60 episodes to fit everything in, and then you'd forget the clues by the time you could make any use of them...

The one thing they could and should have made better though is make it more obvious what the game between Beato and Battler was. Which you just couldn't get without some extensive forum search...
Modified by Pan151, Jun 10, 2012 5:49 PM
 
Jun 10, 2012 5:47 PM

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AidanAK47 said:
ssjokg said:
AidanAK47 said:


If you read the Visual novel you should understand that an Umineko adaptation was impossible from the get go. I say at least they tried but I am pretty sure that neither Madhouse or bones or UFOtable could pull off Umineko.
I mean just imagine the budget needed for the last arc of Chiru alone...


Yeah I know, but:
I havent read Higurashi but if they could do a decent adaption of it then they chould have tried a bit harder with Umineko.Or make one season for ep 1-2 and another for 3-4.And if that worked then move on to Chiru.

With uminko's bd/dvd sales I doubt we will ever see chiru anyway so no worries there...

Come on mate, don't be unreasonable. Two arcs into a 24 episode anime? Then you got pacing issues. There is no winning scenario. Plus Higurashi and Umineko are completely different.


It's the fanboy inside me that talks.If I sit down and think about it then maybe I can let it slide.And I am not a director anyway .I am talking only about how I would prefer it.
 
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