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Poll: Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 7 Discussion


#1
May 19, 2012 8:24 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
This episode was totally disgusting in terms of the following,

Poor poor Kariya! Berserker there was so brutal it’s amazing in the spoiler
I feared his form and truth during that part. There is none other than the amazing atmosphere in that part and colors to show Berserker true form. Moreover we can see his face in the spoiler
I am sure it looks at the very least full of hatred, rage and wrath.

Seriously I got totally sick at the worms! WTF in the spoiler
at that spitting out shit from Kariya’s mouth. That was puke dangerous. It’s like he is spitting out some shit he ate. That is sick shit! Moreover it was sick in the spoiler
just seeing the worms being inside of him and his body being transparent in seeing them.

At least there was some Sakura in the spoiler
poor her. Her eyes are totally changed!

About the beginning, I find that seeing Irisviel here on that circle does kind prepare one to what may happen but it could never make anyone ready for the emotional toll it followed later. Kiritsugu here had quite a serious face and a a close up of it reveals that more. Irisviel’s face here showed a suffering side of her despite remaining not showing it too much. I know she is suffering and that is more than enough for me to see past her face that shows it not much. Inside the pain must be 10 times at least more. The more so when Kiritsugu and Irisviel here cuddle together. Maiya on the other hand does not like it from her expression here. She is concerned also it seems.

On the other hand Kiritsugu’s Avalon retrieval was not wise IMO in the spoiler
He should have never removed despite the situation and Irisviel’s talk to him. Irisviel during that part was part suffering so bad that it hurts her fans. On the other hand her compassion and nice facials were nostalgic. It all translated into desperation.

One of the other things that I was happy about is the following,

Maiya what goes around comes around. PAY THE PRICE OF YOUR SINS! That’s what I was thinking. Maiya got her death well deserved despite having a shitty past. I can sympathize with her but I could never EVER NEVER FORGIVE for the killings she did on Lancer’s master and his wife. Never I could forgive that.

About Waver, one thing that is interesting is a bird’s view of the area he is around and of Saber actually participating in this. However judging from her expression here, she is doubtful of Kiritsugu. I don’t blame her after she saw what he did to Lancer and his master. Waver had some comedy from the ways he does things in the spoiler
that of picking out food and camping out. With little survival food as Bento and noodle soup he survives. I am assuming it’s due to Rider’s plans and doing them by himself. Waver is very hilarious in the sleeping-bag from how his face appears. However we have a problem in the spoiler
KIRITSUGU SNIPPING!
Now that was as much wild as nuts of him as usual. The gun is nicely done and shown.

I find it nice to see Waver thinking about his Servant in the spoiler
those certainly were fun times.

About Maiya and Irisviel. One cannot deny that Maiya has feelings for Irisviel. That is shown with her face here while seeing Irisviel here suffering so much but now showing much of it. At least nor fully blown out. 2 things can be drawn from this.

A) Irisviel in the spoiler
has some of the best poses there. I am sorry but I got a little lovestruck at the pose in the spoiler
oh IRISVIEL COME TO ME LIKE THAT! Screw the rest of the series. I shall SAVE YOU! It's like she is waiting for me there! I NEED.....*hits himself on the head*So in my head my fantasies got the best of me with that pose of her. Sadly it was only to turn off from the reality of this show on Irisviel. I must say that in the spoiler
the expression of Irisviel and Maiya are top notch in the top. They progressed to be more intense.

B) Kiritsugu’s concern in the spoiler
clearly he is seeing WTF is all this blood and analyzing what happened here. The way he acts around the dark area with the chair also shows his concern and alert.

Maiya’s shooting, now that is obvious in the spoiler
however based on Rider here, it’s obvious he killed her because she was in his way. Alexander The Great showing mercy? AHHAAHHAHAHHA NEVER! He would sexually abuse Maiya and be done with her IRL. Alexander after all showed no mercy and the women of his enemies were given out as objects to his men. Perhaps not much is written of it but his life and sexual privacy was never really said. He kept it to himself if any of those came out. Only way to know would have been to be there but I doubt he would allow anyone. He kept his love private a lot.

About Saber’s reaction towards the fatality of Maiya, it is to say of the least in the spoiler
that Saber had a very angry and unfair stance on all this. Her motorcycle raging spirit was seen quite well there. From her fast mounting to fast take off. She is thirsty for revenge it seems on that one. Grinding one’s teeth = Rage.

About Kiritsugu and Maiya, the situation of the spoiler
was emotional especially with Kiritsugu crying again in the spoiler
It’s amazing how much emotions the man does show yet we have seen him doing it twice. Once for Natalia and now Maiya.

What comes up next? OF COURSE! Saber VS Rider! Now that shall be EPIC! LET ME SEE NOW! -_– I know, another week wait. DAMN! Oh well.
Modified by Yumekichi11, May 19, 2012 10:59 AM

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#2
May 19, 2012 8:46 AM

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Poor Maiya. They did a good job adapting her death from what happened in the novel...it's just as tragic as I remembeedr.
Ok™
 
#3
May 19, 2012 9:14 AM

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Kind of a dull episode. I dont understand why we are at 20 episodes in and still deeply developing characters, we already know so much about Kiritsugu that we need to know more? I did enjoy the time spent with Waver and his motivations, and Rider. But otherwise boring.

<img src="http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx1a8gz3tu1qbxqfpo1_500.png" />
 
#4
May 19, 2012 9:16 AM
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Well, good to see OP song again but not so good to see Irisviel's current state:


Also, great to see some Rider/Waver bonding and what they plan to do next:


But the one that really takes the cake this episode is that psycho Berserker as he live up to his name. Then of course, Rider makes his move...

Can't wait to see next.

Inb4 death match.
Modified by Stark700, May 19, 2012 10:31 AM
 
#5
May 19, 2012 9:25 AM

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berserker so BAMF

poor maiya though :( liked her.
Dont bother replying to my posts in forums, dont check them afterwards.

 
#6
May 19, 2012 9:27 AM

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Kiritsugu has an uncanny ability for make women close to him die. Honestly, being a Kiritsugu is suffering.

As for Maiya's death... I don't care to be honest. She was just a living machine without a purpose in life.

Kerry, you really don't like Saber, do you?; "my puppet". Shirou would hate you if he heard that.
 
#7
May 19, 2012 9:43 AM

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Still I prefer Kiritsugu as main char. Shiro was to idealistic and pacifistic
 
#8
May 19, 2012 9:46 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
On the other hand Kiritsugu’s Avalon retrieval was not wise IMO. He should have never removed despite the situation and Irisviel’s talk to him.
It doesn't serve any tactical advantage to have Iri keep Avalon since she won't be moving anymore so she gave it to Kiritsugu. Kiritsugu will make good use of it in the battlefield.


Big change here. Kerry wasn't suppose to go to Tohsaka mansion until after the kidnapping in the Emiya storehouse. But they have to speed up Kiritsugu's frantic searching afterwards I guess.
But mostly everything is the same and as great as the novels.
Goodbye Maiya.
VMax time next episode. And more despair to go if I heard Kotomine correctly in the preview.
 
#9
May 19, 2012 9:51 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:

Maiya what goes around comes around. PAY THE PRICE OF YOUR SINS! That’s what I was thinking. Maiya got her death well deserved despite having a shitty past. I can sympathize with her but I could never EVER NEVER FORGIVE for the killings she did on Lancer’s master and his wife. Never I could forgive that. Might edit later.

I think the one to blame is Kiritsugu, Maiya is just his tool.
Poor Maiya.
 
May 19, 2012 10:04 AM

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I like the misdirection in this episode; it set up Irisviel's death thematically and symbolically and then killed off Maiya instead.
 
May 19, 2012 10:16 AM

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TO ALL IDEALISTS: BEWARE!! YOUR FOLLOWERS MAY NOT BELIEVE IN YOUR IDEALS!

I don't believe this episode was about Kiritsugu in any way, it's about a clarification of Maiya and Irisivel's motivations.As Irisivel articulates and Maiya hints at, both really have no care for Kiritsugu's idealism, but care for Kiristsugu anyway because he holds the key to their dreams: Ilya's future and Maiya's purpose in life.

Hakuromatsu said:
I like the misdirection in this episode; it set up Irisviel's death thematically and symbolically and then killed off Maiya instead.


Similarly, the series as of yet set us up to believe Irisivel and Maiya are following Kiristugu's ideals and threw us this expected bombshell. Anyway, this episode was a bunch of contradictions. (1) Rider tells Waver he needs to rest until nightfall to fight Saber, yet, he runs off and kidnaps Irisivel...? (2) Kariya ingests Sakura's innocence, the very thing he fights to protect. (3) The quiet Berseker finally speaks and much more. Everything is keeping us on the edge. Loving it!
Modified by s2012k1993, May 19, 2012 10:29 AM
 
May 19, 2012 10:28 AM

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http://animuthoughts.blogspot.com/2012/05/fatezero-episode-20.html
^thoughts and pics here.
Looking back on the whole thing, it's pretty amazing Waiver's outlasted Kayneth and Tokiomi. Yay dark horse?
Rider's little discussion with Waiver about the Holy Grail was pretty interesting; it may really just be a fake ideal that brings out the worst in people.
 
May 19, 2012 10:32 AM
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I got a strange feeling that Archer may interfere at a crucial point in the next episode as the three did have a rendezvous season 1 about their purpose of the Holy Grail War and all that other good stuff.
 
May 19, 2012 10:35 AM

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I never thought Maiya would die like this. D:
 
May 19, 2012 10:41 AM

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Nachtwandler_21 said:
Still I prefer Kiritsugu as main char. Shiro was to idealistic and pacifistic

Yah, Kerry is a better main character than Shirou but that wasn't what I was saying. What I was trying to say is the difference between Kerry and Shirou when they treat the servants: for those who watched or read FSN we know that Shirou always treated Saber as a human while Kiritsugu treats her as a mere tool, a puppet.

But Maiya wasn't a tool too?; she only did what Kerry wanted regardless of how bad his orders were.
 
May 19, 2012 10:45 AM

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s2012k1993 said:
(1) Rider tells Waver he needs to rest until nightfall to fight Saber, yet, he runs off and kidnaps Irisivel...?


Appearances can be deceiving. That's all I'm going to say at this point :P
 
May 19, 2012 10:51 AM

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Wow, what a set-up for the next episode...

Yes, I believe that that man was definitely not Rider. They purposefully stressed the "rest until nightfall" so... well, I'm not sure. But I don't think Rider'd do that.

Maiya's death was kinda meh. Well, I never really liked her before (she kissed a married man!), so that's probably why.

And holy crap, Kariya's gonna fuck shit up.
 
May 19, 2012 10:56 AM

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All about drama.

Saber vs Rider next.
 
May 19, 2012 11:02 AM

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sallym613 said:
s2012k1993 said:
(1) Rider tells Waver he needs to rest until nightfall to fight Saber, yet, he runs off and kidnaps Irisivel...?


Appearances can be deceiving. That's all I'm going to say at this point :P

As I can see, the stuff cut out the paragraph about how Kirei instigate Kariya to make a suuden charge on Irisviel. Or am I misremembered?
 
May 19, 2012 11:04 AM

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It's interesting to see how much alike these two women Kiritsugu has on his side truly are. Both are supporting him with all they have but in the end it's Kiritsugu himself who they are fighting for, not his ideals.

Irisviel is unable to comprehend his concepts as a homunculus, without having seen anything of the world that made her husband pursue his dream. Maya is only helping him because he is everything she can cling to.
Ultimately Kiritsugu is alone on his conquest to save the world even though it doesn't appear this way with these two on his side.

Speaking of Maya, her remark of being dead inside reminded me of both Kirei and Shiro, who also are "empty". While Kirei fills the emptiness within with the sadistic traits he becomes aware of, Shiro seeks to reach this goal by doing good deeds. Maya takes yet another approach by using a specific person, Kiritsugu, as a substitute for what she lacks.
Interestingly, it's his hard, unapproachable side that she seems to favour instead of the emotional one he showed her before her death, though that also may only be because that's the state when he is the least vulnerable ergo the most favourable for him to win the war.

On another note, just like Diarmud's curse, Iskandar's remorse when realizing that it was merely a dream, a fairytale many of his men died for, seems to be foreboding for what is yet to come...
 
May 19, 2012 11:06 AM

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it was OK
kinda boring untill the end
 
May 19, 2012 11:06 AM

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belatkuro said:


Big change here. Kerry wasn't suppose to go to Tohsaka mansion until after the kidnapping in the Emiya storehouse. But they have to speed up Kiritsugu's frantic searching afterwards I guess.
But mostly everything is the same and as great as the novels.
Goodbye Maiya.
VMax time next episode. And more despair to go if I heard Kotomine correctly in the preview.

Another change was that Maiya called Kiritsugu before being taken out. In the novels, both Maiya and Kiritsugu took a strand of hair from each other and embedded into one of their fingers. Using magic to alert one of danger, if their own life was brought to a critical state. Atleast it was something along those lines iirc...
 
May 19, 2012 11:11 AM

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belatkuro said:
Yumekichi11 said:
On the other hand Kiritsugu’s Avalon retrieval was not wise IMO. He should have never removed despite the situation and Irisviel’s talk to him.
It doesn't serve any tactical advantage to have Irisviel keep Avalon since she won't be moving anymore so she gave it to Kiritsugu. Kiritsugu will make good use of it in the battlefield.
I was more leaning on having it in her to keep her survival intact even though she can't be moving at all. It's all sad to see her immobilize.
Meruru said:
Yumekichi11 said:

Maiya what goes around comes around. PAY THE PRICE OF YOUR SINS! That’s what I was thinking. Maiya got her death well deserved despite having a shitty past. I can sympathize with her but I could never EVER NEVER FORGIVE for the killings she did on Lancer’s master and his wife. Never I could forgive that. Might edit later.

I think the one to blame is Kiritsugu, Maiya is just his tool.
Poor Maiya.
Yes but that is only due to her attachment and Kiritsugu's saving her. If there is a drama thing out of this. OK will spoiler of what I heard

Maiya's past involved her being at a young age
Still no good IMO.

So like I mentioned Maiya's past is really what made me T_T feel for her. That's it and that's all really.
sallym613 said:
s2012k1993 said:
(1) Rider tells Waver he needs to rest until nightfall to fight Saber, yet, he runs off and kidnaps Irisviel...?


Appearances can be deceiving. That's all I'm going to say at this point :P
If Alexander had to do something personal in the past he would tell you. Same goes for I like this girl and will do shit with her. I don't have to tell you what. Same for Rider. Anything private and personal to him......YOU WILL NEVER KNOW! That's what.

Hence no one knows Alexander the Great 100% Because observations could never be done of his private life since he was so private. IRL if you would film his privacy IMO he would smash you and your camera. Yep!
Modified by Yumekichi11, May 19, 2012 1:57 PM

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May 19, 2012 11:45 AM

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I was wondering why Kiri was going around the Tousaka mansion. I forgot that Tokiomi was murdered by Kayneth.

As for Kariya and Berseker, I expect to see more of them. After he was given that worm, Kariya looked pumped. I did not expect Rider to bust in and kidnap Irisviel.

Maiya is dead ;-; I hope the death of Maiya doesn't cause Kiri's downfall later on in the war. He loved her so much.
 
May 19, 2012 11:58 AM

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It's sad that even Maiya knew she wasn't going to make it alive through the war.

Damn that Zouken, he's one evil bastard.
 
May 19, 2012 12:28 PM

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Woebegone said:
I was wondering why Kiri was going around the Tousaka mansion. I forgot that Tokiomi was murdered by Kayneth.


don't you mean Kotomine? :P
 
May 19, 2012 12:49 PM

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ohohohohoho
next episode shits gonna hit the fan
that voice
kirei's sexy voice
ive missed it so much
cant wait til next week

anyways i really liked waver and rider's interaction this episode and we get more characterization of maiya and her views about kiritsugu
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
May 19, 2012 1:13 PM

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Now that I think about it, this is the first time we hear Berserker speak (Besides his usual ARRRRTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUURRRRRR) and we witness what is behind the helmet (Well, almost. I just know that it's quite unpleasent). Not only that, but this is the first time he is not computer animated.

And now the death count (flashbacks not included) has raised to 8 (Or should I include the two pilots from episode 1 that were massacred. In that case, it raised to 10). Even though I never thought much of Maiya as a character, I can at least say rest in peace.

Next week:

Rider vs Saber is coming and who is the series' next victim?
 
May 19, 2012 1:14 PM

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s2012k1993 said:
Rider tells Waver he needs to rest until nightfall to fight Saber, yet, he runs off and kidnaps Irisivel...? it!


Think about it for a second:

1) Rider and Waver don't know their new hideout. The last thing the knew, they stayed in a castle (which character received information of it? It was in the previous episodes).
2) Rider says he has to be there all day to *materialize* since he refuses to take prana from Waver.
3) His personality from talkative and not willing to kill people meaninglessly is nowhere to be seen. Also he escapes... flying on his own. What is wrong with this picture?

PikachuXD said:
Looking back on the whole thing, it's pretty amazing Waiver's outlasted Kayneth and Tokiomi. Yay dark horse?
Rider's little discussion with Waiver about the Holy Grail was pretty interesting; it may really just be a fake ideal that brings out the worst in people.


Heh. Not only that.

 
May 19, 2012 1:54 PM

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Yumekichi11 said:
sallym613 said:
s2012k1993 said:
(1) Rider tells Waver he needs to rest until nightfall to fight Saber, yet, he runs off and kidnaps Irisviel...?


Appearances can be deceiving. That's all I'm going to say at this point :P
If Alexander had to do something personal in the past he would tell you. Same goes for I like this girl and will do shit with her. I don't have to tell you what. Same for Rider. Anything private and personal to him......YOU WILL NEVER KNOW! That's what.

Hence no one knows Alexander the Great 100% Because observations could never be done of his private life since he was so private. IRL if you would film his privacy IMO he would smash you and your camera. Yep!


Uhhh...How should I respond to this?
I can't even tell whether you're replying to my comment or s2012k1993's but okay..

Nvm. Forget what I just said Yumekichi.

Might be better if you put what actually happened to Maiya in her past in spoiler tags in case. Though I guess it would only matter to those who wanted to read the LN without people spoiling any details that the anime omits.

Thess said:
PikachuXD said:
Looking back on the whole thing, it's pretty amazing Waiver's outlasted Kayneth and Tokiomi. Yay dark horse?
Rider's little discussion with Waiver about the Holy Grail was pretty interesting; it may really just be a fake ideal that brings out the worst in people.


Heh. Not only that.



 
May 19, 2012 1:59 PM

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sallym613 said:
Yumekichi11 said:
sallym613 said:
s2012k1993 said:
(1) Rider tells Waver he needs to rest until nightfall to fight Saber, yet, he runs off and kidnaps Irisviel...?


Appearances can be deceiving. That's all I'm going to say at this point :P
If Alexander had to do something personal in the past he would tell you. Same goes for I like this girl and will do shit with her. I don't have to tell you what. Same for Rider. Anything private and personal to him......YOU WILL NEVER KNOW! That's what.

Hence no one knows Alexander the Great 100% Because observations could never be done of his private life since he was so private. IRL if you would film his privacy IMO he would smash you and your camera. Yep!


Uhhh...How should I respond to this?
I can't even tell whether you're replying to my comment or s2012k1993's but okay..

Nvm. Forget what I just said Yumekichi.

Might be better if you put what actually happened to Maiya in her past in spoiler tags in case. Though I guess it would only matter to those who wanted to read the LN without people spoiling any details that the anime omits.

Thess said:
PikachuXD said:
Looking back on the whole thing, it's pretty amazing Waiver's outlasted Kayneth and Tokiomi. Yay dark horse?
Rider's little discussion with Waiver about the Holy Grail was pretty interesting; it may really just be a fake ideal that brings out the worst in people.


Heh. Not only that.





hes got maiya hairstyle
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
May 19, 2012 1:59 PM

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sallym613 said:
Yumekichi11 said:
sallym613 said:
s2012k1993 said:
(1) Rider tells Waver he needs to rest until nightfall to fight Saber, yet, he runs off and kidnaps Irisviel...?


Appearances can be deceiving. That's all I'm going to say at this point :P
If Alexander had to do something personal in the past he would tell you. Same goes for I like this girl and will do shit with her. I don't have to tell you what. Same for Rider. Anything private and personal to him......YOU WILL NEVER KNOW! That's what.

Hence no one knows Alexander the Great 100% Because observations could never be done of his private life since he was so private. IRL if you would film his privacy IMO he would smash you and your camera. Yep!


Uhhh...How should I respond to this?
I can't even tell whether you're replying to my comment or s2012k1993's but okay..

Nvm. Forget what I just said Yumekichi.
And I understand your confusion but it was to precise that if Alexander REALLY but really wants to do something, he ain't even going to tell anyone. He will go and fight shit instead of involving his army if he wants to do it alone. That's basically it IRL Alexander. I spoke to some scholars of him.

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May 19, 2012 2:03 PM

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So at least now Kiritsugu knows that Tokiomi is dead; and since he is perceptive (they showed the two cups also) he will likely figure out it was Kirei; because of things like there was no sign of a broken entry; so he will figure out (hopefully) that it was someone who got in easily and thus the piece fall into place; that aside even tho she had like no personality it was bitter to see Maiya go like that; it was however nice to see that Kiritsugu still maintains those emotions and hasn't killed them off; like Maiya said, he just can't afford to break down yet, so he puts up a facade for the sake of the war.
 
May 19, 2012 2:17 PM

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You know guys, dropping hints so obvious that a monkey could understand is still spoiling.

OT: Maiya's death was rather....sudden....sucks for her. But now im itching to see archer back in action.
 
May 19, 2012 2:20 PM

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Somehow, when Maiya died, and the ending music started it became very sad for me
;(
 
May 19, 2012 2:20 PM

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My impression of this episode of Fate/Zero Season 2.

 
May 19, 2012 2:24 PM

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benevolentfather said:
You know guys, dropping hints so obvious that a monkey could understand is still spoiling.
Haha, some very not-so-subtle spoilers in here. It's so easy to figure it out when you've read the LN, isn't it?

Hollow334, I always enjoy listening to your F/Z episode reviews.
 
May 19, 2012 2:34 PM

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Yumekichi11 said:
And I understand your confusion but it was to precise that if Alexander REALLY but really wants to do something, he ain't even going to tell anyone. He will go and fight shit instead of involving his army if he wants to do it alone. That's basically it IRL Alexander. I spoke to some scholars of him.


Uh ok. RL Alexander =/= Nasuverse Alexander. Or is King Arthur a little girl and Gilgamesh some bishounen guido? Also, which scholars are you even quoting?

benevolentfather said:
You know guys, dropping hints so obvious that a monkey could understand is still spoiling.


You mean obvious anvil sized hints that were put in the episodes?

Rider: I WILL RECOVER AT NIGHT. So I'll stay in this place to be able to materialize.
Iri: /gets kidnapped before night falls.

Come on. Unless you think the viewers are unobservant idiots, that means they are mean to suspect something isn't right.
Modified by Thess, May 19, 2012 2:39 PM
 
May 19, 2012 2:53 PM

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@ Thess: What is a..bishounen guido? o.O

Also, in addition to what Thess says, Rider specifically said that he wouldnt be able to recover completely until nighttime. He might be very honest, open and eager to battle, but he's not completely reckless. He knows that if he really wants to fight Saber and show that he's right and she's wrong, he would definitely make sure he's on top shape before doing that. Especially if he's going against her with the possibility of her using Excalibur.

And kidnapping Irisviel before healing completely isn't exactly the best thing to do, especially since doing that will guarantee a clash with Saber.
 
May 19, 2012 3:00 PM

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Thess said:
bishounen guido


Total oxymoron ^_^
 
May 19, 2012 3:09 PM
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And kidnapping Irisviel just doesn't seem like the sort of thing that Iskander would do. In some ways he has almost fatherly attitudes towards both Waiver and Saber. He wants to teach Saber a lesson, but he wants to do it by beating her on the battlefield. I'm curious to see which of the remaining heroic spirits or masters is still playing "let's you and him fight".
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May 19, 2012 3:17 PM

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Thess said:
Yumekichi11 said:
And I understand your confusion but it was to precise that if Alexander REALLY but really wants to do something, he ain't even going to tell anyone. He will go and fight shit instead of involving his army if he wants to do it alone. That's basically it IRL Alexander. I spoke to some scholars of him.


Uh ok. RL Alexander =/= Nasuverse Alexander. Or is King Arthur a little girl and Gilgamesh some bishounen guido? Also, which scholars are you even quoting?
Yeah I know but Fiction VS Reality is do much more fun when clearly IRL elements are present. That being said, I am not quoting them but in general speak of the theme of Alexander the Great's Lifestyle and what of it. Still vague even in 2012. There are no empirical evidence that say much of his privacy but I will stop there. Derailing thread is never good.

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May 19, 2012 4:08 PM

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Maya's background as a child soldier wasn't surprising, and the lack of development dampens the effects of her death, whatever was intended. After a two episode exposition on Kiritsugu, I expected more than a few minutes on Maiya's connection to him. What was interesting was contrasting Maiya's views on Kiritsugu with that of Irisviel's, and perhaps more interestingly, with that of Shirou later on. Rider's regret is similar to that of Saber's, and at the same time very different, so their clash should be interesting.
Modified by MissileSoup, May 19, 2012 4:55 PM
 
May 19, 2012 4:21 PM

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sallym613 said:
Also, in addition to what Thess says, Rider specifically said that he wouldnt be able to recover completely until nighttime. He might be very honest, open and eager to battle, but he's not completely reckless. He knows that if he really wants to fight Saber and show that he's right and she's wrong, he would definitely make sure he's on top shape before doing that. Especially if he's going against her with the possibility of her using Excalibur.

And kidnapping Irisviel before healing completely isn't exactly the best thing to do, especially since doing that will guarantee a clash with Saber.


He didn't even acknolwedge Saber who he claimed to fight.
 
May 19, 2012 4:34 PM

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So...what exactly is going on between Maiya and Kiritsugu? Is she Kiritsugu's mistress?
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May 19, 2012 4:50 PM

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FeatherNinja said:
So...what exactly is going on between Maiya and Kiritsugu? Is she Kiritsugu's mistress?


She is his mistress and tool.

Also important difference of the novel. In this bit, Kiritsugu was trying to kill Waver, using Saber as a bait to lure out the Master and Servant. She realized his intention and wanted to avoid it. He wasn't after Tokiomi Tohsaka. He followed Saber to snipe Waver in his cowardly fashion.

I guess they are either trying to speed things up or make him look better than his novel characterization. That's why they cut how his father hugged him in concern and he immediately shot him knowing how much his daddy loves him in episode 18 for the same reason.
Modified by Thess, May 19, 2012 4:59 PM
 
May 19, 2012 5:19 PM

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Thess said:
sallym613 said:
Also, in addition to what Thess says, Rider specifically said that he wouldnt be able to recover completely until nighttime. He might be very honest, open and eager to battle, but he's not completely reckless. He knows that if he really wants to fight Saber and show that he's right and she's wrong, he would definitely make sure he's on top shape before doing that. Especially if he's going against her with the possibility of her using Excalibur.

And kidnapping Irisviel before healing completely isn't exactly the best thing to do, especially since doing that will guarantee a clash with Saber.


He didn't even acknolwedge Saber who he claimed to fight.


It'll be explained in next episode. Trust me. All things will be cleared.
 
May 19, 2012 5:21 PM

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Thess said:
FeatherNinja said:
So...what exactly is going on between Maiya and Kiritsugu? Is she Kiritsugu's mistress?


She is his mistress and tool.

Also important difference of the novel. In this bit, Kiritsugu was trying to kill Waver, using Saber as a bait to lure out the Master and Servant. She realized his intention and wanted to avoid it. He wasn't after Tokiomi Tohsaka. He followed Saber to snipe Waver in his cowardly fashion.


Well, if sniping an enemy is cowardly than U.S. Marine snipers must be cowardly as well, according to that logic. I'm going to have to disagree, on that. Anyway, I fail to see how killing Waver is any worse than killing Tokiomi. They both entered the Grail War, knowing full well that they'd be endangering their lives, a point that Waver vocally accepted in this very episode.
Modified by LunarMoon, May 19, 2012 5:26 PM
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May 19, 2012 5:31 PM

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LunarMoon said:
Well, if sniping an enemy is cowardly than U.S. Marine snipers must be cowardly as well, according to that logic. I'm going to have to disagree, on that. Anyway, I fail to see how killing Waver is any worse than killing Tokiomi. They both entered the Grail War, knowing full well that they'd be endangering their lives, a point that Waver vocally accepted in this very episode.


Saber strongly disagrees. She feels more cautious and hostile against her "ally" than her enemies. She's right. It's a battle of magi. Waver signed up for that: MAGIC. He's using guns. He's a coward who uses underhanded methods. That's supposed to be his work profile.

Had he been successful, kiss the world goodbye in twenty years.


Code_Alchemy said:
He didn't even acknolwedge Saber who he claimed to fight.


Heh. I know. I'm wondering how could people not notice.
Modified by Thess, May 19, 2012 5:35 PM
 
May 19, 2012 5:32 PM

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Yeah I'd say sniping is pretty cowardly in any situation. Killing someone without any chance for them to retaliate from a safe and sound distance. That being that literally stabbing someone in the back isn't much better... but if somehow Tousaka survived that he could have atleast had a chance to retaliate. Why use U.S soldiers in particular... you think U.S marines are the only people who can use a sniper rifle?
 
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