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Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 6 Discussion
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Poll: Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 6 Discussion


05-12-12, 10:45 AM

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There was some horrendous CGI in this episode, but at least the plane explosion was hand-drawn.

I felt that Kiritsugu's motive for killing Natalia was more logical, less impulsive, and better thought-out than his motive for killing his father -- and because of that, it was no surprise to me that he was willing to kill her after having already killed his father.

Not having read the LN, I was wondering if this episode would show how Kiritsugu met Maiya (if it was mentioned in the first cour, I completely forgot). Is that something we'll ever find out, or is it just not important?
 
05-12-12, 10:48 AM

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Linkark07 said:
It was because of Shirley that the entire island was lost so he doesn't want to repeat the same mistake.
WTF are you talking about? I though the virus was spread through the meds? You saying Shirley bite everyone so fast it spread and infected all? It could be but it's possible Kiritsugu's father made loads take those pills. Who knows what went down there.
Linkark07 said:
Where was the plane landing, New York right?; imagine if those bees had escaped the plane.

Besides, I can't see how would Natalia escape the plane without being bitten by one of those bugs
It that happened there would poison all around and death stemming, that's for sure if not a World Epidemic.
ssjokg said:
Yumekichi11 said:
WTF are you talking about? I though the virus was spread through the meds? You saying Shirley bite everyone so fast it spread and infected all? It could be but it's possible Kiritsugu's father made loads take those pills. Who knows what went down there.


It was because of Shirley.Noritaka wouldnt risk an experiment so big to attract both The Church and the Mage's Association.If he was planning to do that he would lock them up somewhere not let them go around biting anything they see.And Shirley didnt need to bite everyone in the village.Her victims did the same and so on....
I see. That goes back to what I though. Thanks for confirming that.
the_executioner said:
Yumekichi11 said:
WTF are you talking about? I though the virus was spread through the meds? You saying Shirley bite everyone so fast it spread and infected all? It could be but it's possible Kiritsugu's father made loads take those pills. Who knows what went down there.


No, it spread like a regular zombie outbreak would. Shirley drank the potion -> Shirley bit someone -> someone bites someone else -> etc. Same with the bees, except now there are more sources for the outbreak.
Well the bees would be harder to kill due to their size and much more efficient at spreading plague itself.
Modified by Yumekichi11, 05-12-12, 7:12 PM

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05-12-12, 10:59 AM

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fucking epic episode, 6/5
 
05-12-12, 11:02 AM

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Hakuromatsu said:

Not having read the LN, I was wondering if this episode would show how Kiritsugu met Maiya (if it was mentioned in the first cour, I completely forgot). Is that something we'll ever find out, or is it just not important?


A little bit of that in the next episode without flashback IF they dont cut it.


What surprised me in this ep is that they showed a teenager smoking.It's been too long since a teenager didnt refuse to smoke because he isnt an adult.I really hate that.,at least let them refuse because they dont like it.The same goes for alcohol.never saw someone refusing to drink because of not being and adult.


Back to the ep.Apart to the filler during half and more of the ep -which I didnt mind-I could spot only one difference(if you can call it one) from the LN.In the anime Natalia smiles in the end while in the LN we have no idea what happened.I liked that.

Also LN part
Modified by Othi-tan, 05-12-12, 11:15 AM
 
05-12-12, 11:02 AM

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I just want to curl up in a ball and cry. Oh wait. I already am.

So this is how Kiritsugu fell to darkness? He really seemed deranged when trying to justify his killing of Natalia. There's only one thing that I'm a bit confused over. Did Natalia know that Kiritsugu was going to kill her? Because she was talking about landing and seeing him again. Hmm.

By the way, teenager Kiritsugu is hella fine. And I could get used to Manten being used as the ED. It's better than the other one for sure.
 
05-12-12, 11:09 AM

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Hakuromatsu said:
Not having read the LN, I was wondering if this episode would show how Kiritsugu met Maiya (if it was mentioned in the first cour, I completely forgot). Is that something we'll ever find out, or is it just not important?
No, their meeting is not mentioned in this part, though it will be explained by Maiya herself later. And you won't have to wait too long^^
 
05-12-12, 11:10 AM

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itsvero said:

So this is how Kiritsugu fell to darkness? He really seemed deranged when trying to justify his killing of Natalia. There's only one thing that I'm a bit confused over. Did Natalia know that Kiritsugu was going to kill her? Because she was talking about landing and seeing him again. Hmm.


It depends on the reader/viewer.Others think Natalia knew, others doubt it.Well Natalia should know he would do if any other person than her was on the plane.The problem is did she believe he would do it while she was on it?
 
05-12-12, 11:11 AM

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ssjokg said:
Hakuromatsu said:

Not having read the LN, I was wondering if this episode would show how Kiritsugu met Maiya (if it was mentioned in the first cour, I completely forgot). Is that something we'll ever find out, or is it just not important?


A little bit of that in the next episode without flashback IF they dont cut it.


What surprised me in this ep is that they showed a teenager smoking.It's been too long since a teenager didnt refused smoking because he isnt an adult.I really hate that.,at least let them refuse because they dont like it.The same goes for alcohol.never saw someone refusing to drink because of not being and adult.


Less correctness stuff please.
 
05-12-12, 11:15 AM

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For the greater good. This is truly a noble man, him and saber actually resemble each other alot but saber takes the side of honor.
 
05-12-12, 11:19 AM

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ssjokg said:


It depends on the reader/viewer.Others think Natalia knew, others doubt it.Well Natalia should know he would do if any other person than her was on the plane.The problem is did she believe he would do it while she was on it?


Personally, I think the majority of the evidence suggests that Natalia knew perfectly well what Kiritsugu would do. Factually, she looks surprised for a moment when he says that he has the ghoul problem "all worked out" and then smiles with what looks like understanding and acceptance.

Their conversation is a bittersweet acknowledgement of their familial relationship and the fact that's about to end.

Thematically, it seems to complete Kiritsugu's character development into the remorseless killer that he believes would have saved Shirley's village.

Whatever you think, it's been a slightly hasty, emotionally charged two episodes that probably would be better covered in more time in the novels (to give more time for the mother-son bond to develop and no doubt some cool assasination action). I'm looking forward to getting back to the servant battles next week.
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05-12-12, 11:19 AM

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Really cool episode and finally back to the future in the next episode.

I felt kinda evil for laughing at how Kiritsugu snapped, but you definitely saw that coming. Using Air France flight accident was cool but can be consired impolite towards those who actually died back then.. :/
 
05-12-12, 11:20 AM

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ssjokg said:
Still no haters?hmm weird


Perhaps they'll come after the episode get subs (not the nico version)
 
05-12-12, 11:25 AM

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disliked
2nd episode of fate zero that i gave a score under 4/5
only rin's episode was worse...

that crying scene was ugh...
Modified by BloodRequiem, 05-12-12, 11:35 AM
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
05-12-12, 11:26 AM

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Mauno said:
Really cool episode and finally back to the future in the next episode.

I felt kinda evil for laughing at how Kiritsugu snapped, but you definitely saw that coming. Using Air France flight accident was cool but can be consired impolite towards those who actually died back then.. :/


The same goes for all the WWII movies,9/11 movie,Titanic etc.And didnt that happen in 2009?
Modified by Othi-tan, 05-12-12, 11:31 AM
 
05-12-12, 11:27 AM

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Well, surprise surprise! Kiritsugu killed his father because of justice and not some emotional impulse. I guess that theory from the previous thread gets thrown out the window. Lawlz.
 
05-12-12, 11:32 AM

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kayos90 said:
Well, surprise surprise! Kiritsugu killed his father because of justice and not some emotional impulse. I guess that theory from the previous thread gets thrown out the window. Lawlz.


did you see this line? :

"i didnt screw up like i did with you"
for justice lol...thats funny
again to ease the pain off his guilty conscience
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
05-12-12, 11:33 AM

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Mauno said:
Really cool episode and finally back to the future in the next episode.

I felt kinda evil for laughing at how Kiritsugu snapped, but you definitely saw that coming. Using Air France flight accident was cool but can be consired impolite towards those who actually died back then.. :/


Actually I think it's more because Air France is more suitable to use for flights from Paris to New York. This event happens pre-1995, after all.

But I actually surprised they used an actual name for the airplane. Usually Japan will obscure it by misspellings or different name, maybe like Air Krance or Sky France. Wcdonalds is so popular in anime...


BloodRequiem said:
kayos90 said:
Well, surprise surprise! Kiritsugu killed his father because of justice and not some emotional impulse. I guess that theory from the previous thread gets thrown out the window. Lawlz.

did you see this line? :

"i didnt screw up like i did with you"
for justice lol...thats funny
again to ease the pain off his guilty conscience

But that's the whole point of his justice complex. He refused to kill Shirley because he loved her, he didn't do it because of his emotions towards Shirley. He didn't make the same mistake with his father and Natalia, where he separated his emotions from his actions and do the most logical thing, by killing them both.

I'm not saying he doesn't feel guilty about that, but he did kill his father partially for justice too. After all that Shirley incident will remind him again and again what will happen if he chooses his emotions above doing what is right at that time.
Modified by neurogal91, 05-12-12, 11:43 AM
 
05-12-12, 11:48 AM

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It was just amazing seeing Kiritsugu break down like that after shooting the plane down. Guess that was the last straw that broke the camel's back.
 
05-12-12, 11:50 AM

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Damn......that's some sense of justice.
 
05-12-12, 11:53 AM

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Just when I was starting to lose fate in this series, they throw this at me. Loved this episode, felt like 10 minutes, not 24. These two episodes made Kiritsugu a lot less distant character. But somehow this made me like him less. Before he was sort of mysterious/dark, but now he's just neutral.
Oh and the voice actor did an amazing job for Kiritsugu's breakdown.
 
05-12-12, 11:53 AM

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There's a little easter egg in this episode, Natalia has Touko's cigarettes:

 
05-12-12, 12:01 PM

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yokaii said:
Just when I was starting to lose fate in this series, they throw this at me. Loved this episode, felt like 10 minutes, not 24. These two episodes made Kiritsugu a lot less distant character. But somehow this made me like him less. Before he was sort of mysterious/dark, but now he's just neutral.
Oh and the voice actor did an amazing job for Kiritsugu's breakdown.


You dont have to like him, only to understand him.
 
05-12-12, 12:03 PM

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I find it funny how in every single episode everyone says it's the best one till the next one.. xD Season 2 is 100 times better than the first..
 
05-12-12, 12:17 PM

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I'm just speechless..this is getting better and better.
 
05-12-12, 12:44 PM

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Good episode,for the greater good.

They add fillers this episode but for me it was ok so i wont bitch that much specially since for they did a great job at the last scenes.

Kiritsugu...this is part what i like you even more!! First the filler parts again was not bad,liked how he suffer to build the gun,also we know how he begin his love for cigarets...blame it on Natalia!!

Also some more info about him is always nice but the moment of the episode was the last minutes.....

Natalia first made a mistake not planning if she needed to jump...that was mistake you must always be ready for the worst.
Next the conversation between Kiritusugu and Natalia was great,i think she already knew just as he said he had a plan,from the moment on it was all a goodbye from both of them to each other just by their nature cant say it straight.Also as some say what kind of celebration for 'Mother day' XD

Now....what he did is not the "good" option it was the "smart" option,if the plane hit the ground the chance of spreading was very high so that was the right call....the right call many times isnt the must beautiful one....

The breakdown was amazing for me you really feel Kiritsugu suffering just by time he begins to justify himself of how important Natalia became to him.
For me this was the moment Kiritsugu became the perfect assassin without remorse without consideration,killing his "mother" for the greater good was the last stone in his build as the "Magic Killer"

Well in a whole great episode beyond the fillers,next episode back to the action....cant wait!!
 
05-12-12, 12:59 PM

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Linkark07 said:


Didn't a Dead Apostle made other human beings into ghouls by biting them?; I thought I read that in the Tsukihime manga.


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I have a sickness called gettingarousedbyhorieyui'svoice syndrome.
 
05-12-12, 1:09 PM

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Ufotable did a very nice CGI render of an A300B2 complete with wingtip fences in the old Air France colours. Even the cockpit was right, although the source picture the studio used was obviously on a shut-down aircraft on the ground. The airspeed indicator read 0 and the backup attitude indicator was tipped over. Such was the detail! Minor snag - Air France's A300B2-200s don't have the range to viably fly over the pond to New York!

Surface-to-air missile. I'd have thought it would be heat-seeking and go straight to the engine, but it went to the top of the wing instead with is rather bizarre. That said, an A300 in Iraq did survive a RPG which missed the engine and hit the outer wing from the bottom-up...

Enough aviation geek banter and onto the anime. It's as if Kiritsugu was interrogating Natalia at the end about her future plans. I think Natalia's decision to retire and be a mother was the final straw in Kiritsugu's decision to shoot the aircraft down. If Natalia were to continue getting rid of wanted people, the remote possibility of releasing the insects may have been worth taking. She is one formidable assasin who can get rid of big targets into the future. Knowing she was going to retire would mean such a risk was no longer worth it as the 'return' would be zilch - she has become a civilian.

I found it amusing how she compared the big Airbus to a Cessna. :P Assuming she was able to land (being no ordinary person, she'll likely do it without crashing), what would have happened was for her to grab an emergency rope (standard equipment) and climbed out of the open-able cockpit window, onto the ground. A pressurised aircraft like the A300 is seal-tight and the cockpit door seemed to be able to keep the insects out as well. What would have been done was Natalia to using her connections to keep the feds out, and quarantine the aircraft until the bugs are all dead from natural causes...or hook up a ground air-conditioning unit and do a fumigation.
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05-12-12, 1:11 PM

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One of the better episodes; it really matched my expectations on what i was expecting his past to be like; him choosing to kill Natalia along with the rest of the plane was predictable but that doesn't take away the effect none the less; This is where he completely differs from Saber; Saber would have answered that question "i want to save everyone" instead of Kiritsugu from the get go as a kid said "i want to save as many as i can" Saber isn't realistic, and she justifies her actions with honor as a blanket for murder when Kiritsugu realizes what it is and thus showed it after killing Natalia. Dude had a crap life; but it was great for his character development. Natalia knew from the get go that he would choose to kill her also; hence why they had that "last" talk; she also smiled before the plan burned up. Also a note to those who believe what he did was a dirty move like those who got all angry when he set up Lancer like he did; when he didn't was the "good" move, it was the "smart" move, the right choice isn't always the morally good one; like the old paradox of evil killing evil but thus becoming evil; that kind of process is created by human nature and it was shown well here.
 
05-12-12, 1:12 PM

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They anime ended up presenting Kiritsugus story more thoroughly than I expect. Last two eps have been awesome.

I can now say it's a pleasure to hate such a well done character.

Natalia probably knew what Kiritsugu was up to, I don't think she was 100% sure if he'd actually pull the trigger tho.
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05-12-12, 1:19 PM

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dio_brando86 said:
There's a little easter egg in this episode, Natalia has Touko's cigarettes:



Excelent work
 
05-12-12, 1:21 PM

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Lucena said:
Also, does anyone else think Kiritsugu's reasoning for killing Natalia is a little flawed?


nah, the plane was full of zombies he needed to blow up the plane so that the same disaster doesnt happen again, he already felt guilty for not killing shirley, so it was to be expected...
 
05-12-12, 1:25 PM

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X10A_Freedom said:

Enough aviation geek banter and onto the anime. It's as if Kiritsugu was interrogating Natalia at the end about her future plans. I think Natalia's decision to retire and be a mother was the final straw in Kiritsugu's decision to shoot the aircraft down. If Natalia were to continue getting rid of wanted people, the remote possibility of releasing the insects may have been worth taking. She is one formidable assasin who can get rid of big targets into the future. Knowing she was going to retire would mean such a risk was no longer worth it as the 'return' would be zilch - she has become a civilian.


Good theory but her plans didnt matter at all.The death count would be higher(we are talking about New York city here)than the number of people they would have saved in the future in combination with the ones they saved in the past.
 
05-12-12, 1:25 PM

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Crimson_V said:
Lucena said:
Also, does anyone else think Kiritsugu's reasoning for killing Natalia is a little flawed?


nah, the plane was full of zombies he needed to blow up the plane so that the same disaster doesnt happen again, he already felt guilty for not killing shirley, so it was to be expected...


his decisions were always flawed




Good theory but her plans didnt matter at all.The death count would be higher(we are talking about New York city here)than the number of people they would have saved in the future in combination with the ones they saved in the past.


yep it was just his twisted logic at work
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
05-12-12, 1:26 PM

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Crimson_V said:
Lucena said:
Also, does anyone else think Kiritsugu's reasoning for killing Natalia is a little flawed?


nah, the plane was full of zombies he needed to blow up the plane so that the same disaster doesnt happen again, he already felt guilty for not killing shirley, so it was to be expected...


Also you forget when you say his reasoning was flawed that where she was landing was no island; i mean I'm sure you know whether you have seen zombie (ghouls w/e, you get the point) movies or not how hard it is to contain that; its exactly like he said "who knows how many" could have died.

So i suppose the better question would be, what could you do better in his shoes? its easy to say i'll take the high road, but that just makes you Saber; all talk and nothing to back it up; since ideals only so far....
 
05-12-12, 1:30 PM

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BloodRequiem said:
Crimson_V said:
Lucena said:
Also, does anyone else think Kiritsugu's reasoning for killing Natalia is a little flawed?


nah, the plane was full of zombies he needed to blow up the plane so that the same disaster doesnt happen again, he already felt guilty for not killing shirley, so it was to be expected...


his decisions were always flawed



You forget that
 
05-12-12, 1:47 PM

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Episode 1. Now we know.
 
05-12-12, 2:02 PM

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ssjokg said:
BloodRequiem said:
Crimson_V said:
Lucena said:
Also, does anyone else think Kiritsugu's reasoning for killing Natalia is a little flawed?


nah, the plane was full of zombies he needed to blow up the plane so that the same disaster doesnt happen again, he already felt guilty for not killing shirley, so it was to be expected...


his decisions were always flawed



You forget that


As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
05-12-12, 2:02 PM

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These last two episodes are better than the whole Fate/Zero series so far. Amazing. I even shed a tear at the end.
Natalia is badass.
 
05-12-12, 2:05 PM

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Being Kiritsugu is suffering. Having to shoot down the person that help raised you is so sad to think about, amazing episode overall.
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05-12-12, 2:07 PM

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This scene made the episode end on a high note.




 
05-12-12, 2:12 PM

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I cried along with Kiritsugu. Poor guy keeps loosing everyone dear to him. ;_; And to know that this will never change is far too heartbreaking. T_T
 
05-12-12, 2:13 PM

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Kiritsugu has turned his mind into steel.
My full blog post for the episode is here http://goani.me/fate-zero-episode-19/
 
05-12-12, 2:39 PM

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Kiritsugu. Now I know why you are an emotionless bastard! =/

The conversation with Natalia before shooting down the plane was really bittersweet. It felt like Natalia expected the plane to crash or something. But man, I never thought that Kiritsugu would be the one to bring it down. Damn!

Props for Kerry's seiyuu for that "breaking down" scene. Brought me goosebumps. :)
 
05-12-12, 2:44 PM

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I expected it from a mile away, but still...its still sad to watch him kill his "parent" figure for the second time.

4/5

I think this flashback arc was the low point for this half so far, but it was a necessary addition :D
 
05-12-12, 3:11 PM

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So, it looks like the past arc is over.

Now back to action!
 
05-12-12, 3:15 PM

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Another great look into Kiri's backstory I think. Those ghouls are nasty.
 
05-12-12, 3:22 PM

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So defensive already?

While I thought it was done well, I didn't like this flashback. Yes, Kiritsugu is the main character, but he hasn't played a prominent enough role (over any of the other characters) in the war yet for me to care for a flashback. His personality was well-established without the use of his past, and I wasn't interested in seeing how it was developed. Of course, this is my opinion, and was already recognized as inferior before its existence. I expect lots of angry responses on why I must change it.
 
05-12-12, 3:36 PM

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MissileSoup said:
So defensive already?

While I thought it was done well, I didn't like this flashback. Yes, Kiritsugu is the main character, but he hasn't played a prominent enough role (over any of the other characters) in the war yet for me to care for a flashback. His personality was well-established without the use of his past, and I wasn't interested in seeing how it was developed. Of course, this is my opinion, and was already recognized as inferior before its existence. I expect lots of angry responses on why I must change it.


Lets see if my response is like that then.
The point is that from here on it's all about Kirei and Kiritsugu.Kariya and Waver will be the same as before in screentime.And you need those eps for the last ep(probably the last 2 eps)as things change dramatically around him(and inside).Without those flashbacks we would be like Kirei wondering "Why oes this man fight","Why do these women protect him","
" .

You can also see it this way:If it wasnt for these 2 eps FZ would be23 episodes long.
 
05-12-12, 3:38 PM

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Quick though: was Kiritsugu's mentality after the shit that happened from last episode and the info of this episode like so….”Fuck everything as long as I can put to rest what started my Hell and rest….” could it be he lives only to stop all this for his FIRST LOVE! That would be Shirley as he blushed at that part in the last episode?

Can it be though of like that of his mental change?

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05-12-12, 3:50 PM

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ssjokg said:
...

Well, noticed I said "yet". The problem I have with these responses is that you must bring in future events. While I don't read spoilers, your first few sentences are enough for me to speculate what will happen. While I don't care too much, it has no place in a discussion of this episode and before. Just like how this episode had no impact on me within the context of what has occurred thus far. Whether or not it becomes necessary in the future is irrelevant as of now. With this flashback, disregarding what may or may not happen in the future, you are still left to wonder "why this man fight," and "why do these women protect him."
 
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