Questions about Fate/Zero and the F/s visual novel
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#41
07-24-12, 1:32 PM
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Offline Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 5575 |
Leon-Gun said: Ragna92 said: It has to do with the climax of HF. But the less said about it the better the surprise, unless you watched Carnival Phantasm or seen the figurines. Plus people seem to hate Sakura, much like many hated Kohaku. The fact both are pretty similar is no coincidence.I think you'll enjoy HF. It does contain a lot more content than the first 2 routes and is much more similar in tone with Fate/Zero. When I played the VN it felt like each route got a lot better. UBW was a huge jump from Fate, and HF was a jump from UBW. And Saber fans are pretty shallow if they disliked it just because of Saber's role. As for Gilgamesh, what someone said up there... he wasn't comitting mass genocide. In 10 years he greww to detest how weak humanity had become. So he reasoned, those who couldn't handle the Grail like he did had no place in his kingdom. It's less about mass genocide and more about natural selection. the weak should die, that's what he reasons. Also, he made a promise to Kirei. Heck, at one moment he admits he doesn't really care about the Grail as much as Kirei does, that's it's all the same to him. He did it because it was Kirei's goal, that's mostly it. I guess that if you had a truly shitty life since you were 6 or 7,you dont have the right to hate everyone and everything for it.I just cant see a reason to hate both of them for whatever reason...And the fact that I have seen people defending Shinji and blaming Sakura blows my mind. Modified by ssjokg, 07-24-12, 3:50 PM  |
#42
07-24-12, 1:59 PM
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Offline Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 5081 |
ssjokg said: This doesn't just blows my mind, it makes me sad for their mental state. I didn't symphatize with Kohaku as much because she channeled her hate on people who had nothing to do with it, but Sakura deserves love. Like you said the first time, people bag on her mostly because of Saber... and a little because of Tohsaka but honestly, Rin came off as a jerk in most of HF..And the fact that I have seen people defending Shinji and blaming Sakura blows my mind.  |
#43
07-24-12, 2:03 PM
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Offline Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 3622 |
Leon-Gun said: ssjokg said: This doesn't just blows my mind, it makes me sad for their mental state. I didn't symphatize with Kohaku as much because she channeled her hate on people who had nothing to do with it, but Sakura deserves love. Like you said the first time, people bag on her mostly because of Saber... and a little because of Tohsaka but honestly, Rin came off as a jerk in most of HF..And the fact that I have seen people defending Shinji and blaming Sakura blows my mind. It's the "slut" argument. Truly pathetic that they take Shinji's words for it and think that Sakura actually enjoyed it. If Lancer wasn't there in UBW Rin probably would have "enjoyed it" as well... As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
#44
07-24-12, 3:07 PM
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Offline Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 812 |
BloodRequiem said: It's the "slut" argument. Truly pathetic that they take Shinji's words for it and think that Sakura actually enjoyed it. If Lancer wasn't there in UBW Rin probably would have "enjoyed it" as well... /facepalm. Seriously...? I'm honestly hoping that the reason they decided to keep a character like Shinji, whose only purpose is to infuriate the audience, is so he'll die a dramatic karmic death in HF. It boggles the mind as to why Rin had to save him, at first I thought it was so they would use Shinji to use a command spell to force Gilgamesh to commit suicide (assuming Shinji had command spells left), but no; all that happened afterwards was that Shinji was sent to the hospital. Is it possible there's another outcome to the final night? Did I miss an option where Rin does the logical thing and stays on shore and just watches as Saber obliterates the "pile of meat" with Shinji in it? "The end of happiness, the beginning of truth." |
#45
07-24-12, 3:10 PM
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Offline Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 5575 |
AzureBlues said: BloodRequiem said: It's the "slut" argument. Truly pathetic that they take Shinji's words for it and think that Sakura actually enjoyed it. If Lancer wasn't there in UBW Rin probably would have "enjoyed it" as well... /facepalm. Seriously...? I'm honestly hoping that the reason they decided to keep a character like Shinji, whose only purpose is to infuriate the audience, is so he'll die a dramatic karmic death in HF. It boggles the mind as to why Rin had to save him, at first I thought it was so they would use Shinji to use a command spell to force Gilgamesh to commit suicide (assuming Shinji had command spells left), but no; all that happened afterwards was that Shinji was sent to the hospital. Dont forget the sudden change of heart he had in the end.From all the BS in Nasuverse this is the biggest one AzureBlues said: Is it possible there's another outcome to the final night? Did I miss an option where Rin does the logical thing and stays on shore and just watches as Saber obliterates the "pile of meat" with Shinji in it? Unfortunately no that choice doesnt exist.It's funny that Shirou(and other likable characters) has so many bad ends with some worse than death(all routes combined) but Shinji is actually saved in UBW. Modified by ssjokg, 07-24-12, 3:57 PM |
#46
07-24-12, 6:36 PM
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Offline Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 812 |
ssjokg said: Unfortunately no that choice doesnt exist.It's funny that Shirou(and other likable characters) has so many bad ends with some worse than death(all routes combined) but Shinji is actually saved in UBW. That's a shame. Although I was fortunate enough to not run into too many bad ends unintentionally, I only remember getting killed by Rin and Issei. "The end of happiness, the beginning of truth." |
#47
07-31-12, 4:20 PM
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Offline Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 507 |
I think it's funnier when they try to use Kotomine's remarks to make Sakura suffer as the truth and they forget Kotomine said that Shirou wished to place people in danger to play superhero and attempt to save them. Kirei's my favorite character because he's a TROLL who purposefully tries to look for sore spots. Anyone who takes his double meanings psychological torment words as read are delusional. |
#48
07-31-12, 9:45 PM
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Offline Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 5081 |
Thess said: ANd honestly he's speaking in half truths ALL THE TIME. Like, what he says to Shirou is partly true. To be a hero he needs a villain and people in danger, otherwise he has no one to save (funny part is a possible future of Shirou basically has him being blamed for the deaths of millions he tried to save hence Kotomine's words are almost prophetical in the case of Shirou). But yeah, Kotomine likes to torment others at a phsycological level. Treating his words as absolute truth is as stupid as taking almost everything Matou Zouken says as true. They are both manipulative bastards who will only play mind games with the protagonist (and by extension the reader).I think it's funnier when they try to use Kotomine's remarks to make Sakura suffer as the truth and they forget Kotomine said that Shirou wished to place people in danger to play superhero and attempt to save them. Kirei's my favorite character because he's a TROLL who purposefully tries to look for sore spots. Anyone who takes his double meanings psychological torment words as read are delusional. |
#49
08-01-12, 8:35 PM
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Offline Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 507 |
Zouken outright lies, though. The whole "lol I can't control Sakura anymore?" BS. Since his ultimate plan was take over her body. Kotomine twists the truth in a horrible way. That's a difference. It's still a difference. |
#50
08-01-12, 9:30 PM
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Offline Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 5081 |
Thess said: It is, although it's still easy to argue who's worse. Zouken lies so you can throw all the blame at him when the lies come undone, but Kotomine can't be argued with. The guy hardly ever lies, he just twists the truth, dodges around subjects and lets you come to the wrong conclusions for his own amusement. Even in Zero he upheld his side of the bargain with Kariya. He's really at his worst when he's "helping" in order to further his own goals, and offering helpful "advice" in order to lead you to his own designs.I always have thought that Kotomine is a far more cunning deceiver while Zouken is a sadist which in the end makes Kotomine more interesting than Zouken as a whole.Zouken outright lies, though. The whole "lol I can't control Sakura anymore?" BS. Since his ultimate plan was take over her body. Kotomine twists the truth in a horrible way. That's a difference. It's still a difference. Modified by Leon-Gun, 08-01-12, 9:34 PM |
#51
08-01-12, 10:11 PM
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Offline Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 82 |
AzureBlues said: After finishing Fate/Zero, I strongly recommend all viewers new to the franchise to watch Fate/Zero before reading/watching Fate/Stay.  no it supposed to be the opposite people will get confusing as hell if they watched fate/zero first  |
#52
08-02-12, 12:08 AM
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Offline Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 507 |
A few in the anime, but the light novels have it all covered. Honestly, it doesn't matter where they begin. The Unlimited Cooking Works put off many people from reading VN until they know the plotline is cool. |
#53
08-03-12, 9:33 PM
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Offline Joined: Apr 2012 Posts: 3622 |
Thess said: A few in the anime, but the light novels have it all covered. Honestly, it doesn't matter where they begin. The Unlimited Cooking Works put off many people from reading VN until they know the plotline is cool. TBH it's all Saber's fault. In UBW and HF the cooking kind of stops/gets toned down when In Fate it just continues until the end... ReginaGeorge said: AzureBlues said: After finishing Fate/Zero, I strongly recommend all viewers new to the franchise to watch Fate/Zero before reading/watching Fate/Stay. no it supposed to be the opposite people will get confusing as hell if they watched fate/zero first Yep. Definitely agree. Even though both spoils each other equally, it is more fun to make speculations and have them confirmed in F/Z. Not to mention the number of Easter eggs in F/Z makes the experience much more enjoyable after reading F/SN. Leon-Gun said: Thess said: It is, although it's still easy to argue who's worse. Zouken lies so you can throw all the blame at him when the lies come undone, but Kotomine can't be argued with. The guy hardly ever lies, he just twists the truth, dodges around subjects and lets you come to the wrong conclusions for his own amusement. Even in Zero he upheld his side of the bargain with Kariya. He's really at his worst when he's "helping" in order to further his own goals, and offering helpful "advice" in order to lead you to his own designs.I always have thought that Kotomine is a far more cunning deceiver while Zouken is a sadist which in the end makes Kotomine more interesting than Zouken as a whole.Zouken outright lies, though. The whole "lol I can't control Sakura anymore?" BS. Since his ultimate plan was take over her body. Kotomine twists the truth in a horrible way. That's a difference. It's still a difference. The main difference is that Zouken is evil in a repulsive way (You can really feel the hatred in Shirou whenever he talks about Zouken but hes all tsundere for Kotomine). Kotomine, on the other hand, is evil in a sexy, trollish and adorable way. Modified by BloodRequiem, 08-03-12, 9:53 PM As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
