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WWYD (What would you discard/do?)
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#1
05-03-12, 10:05 AM

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Basically. Look at the hand.

What would you discard?

Here's a whole section of 'em in ReachMahjong:
http://www.reachmahjong.com/en/forum/viewforum.php?f=49

Otherwise, we'll do some of our own here.
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#2
05-03-12, 10:40 AM

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How about this one for starters?

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#3
05-03-12, 1:51 PM

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8-pin.

Safe tile against the riichi to your left. Plus, you'll be 1-shanten.
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#4
05-23-12, 11:32 PM

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OK. I declared riichi. That's your hand. Don't mind my points. I had a shitty game. XD

What would you discard?
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#5
05-24-12, 9:12 PM

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Well... 7-man looks safe. A 5-6 ryanmen wait would be furiten for you, a shanpon or a tanki wait is also impossible due to the pon of the south player. All that's left is the 9-8 wait, but three 9-mans and two 8-mans are in the discard pond already, so it's unlikely, and on top of that, no one would be crazy enough to wait on that single 7-man.

So... how many points did I lose? xD


On a sidenote, depending on my mood I'd take apart the hand and throw away the 6-pin since it's a 100% safe tile to your riichi and my hand is not worth much. The correct play would be this, but I'm not the type who always play in the most efficient way :)
 
#6
05-25-12, 11:56 AM

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Yakuman said:
Well... 7-man looks safe. A 5-6 ryanmen wait would be furiten for you, a shanpon or a tanki wait is also impossible due to the pon of the south player. All that's left is the 9-8 wait, but three 9-mans and two 8-mans are in the discard pond already, so it's unlikely, and on top of that, no one would be crazy enough to wait on that single 7-man.

So... how many points did I lose? xD


With Ippatsu. Haneman. XD
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#7
06-15-12, 6:52 PM

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Well this thread looks a bit sad so I'll give it a post. Here's one of the very close games I just played. Inside the spoiler is what I did, which does NOT mean what I did was right, but just the results of what happened after a split second decision. Pardon this long post, but it may help me get some insight on your opinions on tile efficiency and possibly help others as well.

Scene 1:


What would you do? Note that West has riichi.



Scene 2:


What would you do? You're iishanten, and you have 67m and 78p left. You can start discarding the 6m/7p and when you pon the red dragon, discard the remaining 7m/8p for tenpai.



Scene 3:


This is about what I've already done, which is two quick calls (for gutshot tiles) to get fast open Tanyao cheap hand while in 2nd place.



Scene 4:


What would you have done? South just riichi. I am waiting on a lone tile, red 5m, presumably because I wanted to make my hand worth 4 han.



Scene 5:


First draw of the game gives you 5 pairs. Would you go for Toitoi/Chitoi, or try for someone else since you have a lot of pins that could turn into runs?



Scene 6:


You are tenpai with no yaku, and no one shows tenpai yet so you will probably have to riichi here. Would you discard the 7m for a double sided wait (69m) or 8m for a two pair wait (7m/5s)?



Scene 7:


You're tenpai. The 3456s shape is good because it can be seen as 34s and 56s. You have the opportunity to kan 4 dora here and still keep your hand closed for riichi if you didn't get the right tile. But you'll be showing that you have 4 dora, everyone else will probably play VERY cautiously around you. So do you kan, or discard the 4m with riichi?



Scene 7.5:


(Note: I'm no longer the player on the bottom. This is from the POV of another player.)

Would you riichi here? East has riichi before you. It would be an empty riichi since you have no yaku, and you are basically hoping for ippatsu or uradora 2 at best. The tile that you would riichi with is 2p, one of East's discards, so you will not deal into East in the first turn.



Scene 8:


West just riichi. Keep attacking or defend? You are second place and very close to first, so you don't want fall into third place, yet if West wins, you'll only have South 4 to get first place, if you're trying to go for it.



Scene 9:


You have five disjointed pairs, and the chance to pon the 7p. You basically have two options here, pon for Toitoi, or pass for Chitoi. What would you do?



Scene 9.5:


(Note: I'm no longer the player on the bottom. This is from the POV of another player.)

What would you discard here?



Scene 10:


It's South 4, and you're in first place. You have a tenpai hand, but you need to discard a red 5m. With two other players probably tenpai, is it safe? What would you do?

Modified by KholdStare88, 06-17-12, 1:37 AM

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#8
06-15-12, 11:11 PM

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OK. Kyuu's answers. XD

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#9
06-16-12, 12:29 AM

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My answers:

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06-16-12, 10:57 AM

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Here's what I would do.


Various edits/responses after reading Kyuu's


Comment on KholdStare88's toi toi vs. chiitoitsu dilemmas -

Modified by skutieos, 06-16-12, 11:31 AM
 
06-16-12, 1:20 PM

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On Toi Toi. It is easier to pull off if you possess an ankou. (LOL @ mixing Japanese into English)

So freakin' Kawaii~~!! XD

Anyways. Ever played a game where you made a bunch of early calls chi/pon -- and then -- suddenly, for the rest of the hand, it starts to "feel" difficult completing the rest of the hand?

@skutieos
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06-17-12, 2:20 AM

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Wow, thanks for the responses. I have a few comments of my own.

Toitoi vs. Chitoi
As a general rule, Chitoi is unpredictable and although it's a single tile wait, your opponent doesn't know you're tenpai. However, if you don't have any completely safe tiles (as in the tiles I discarded), then even if you know I'm going for Toitoi, there's not much you can do about it. You can't use any rules and guess my furiten tiles using possible runs...because I don't have any runs. So even if you know I'm tenpai, you can be unlucky and has absolutely no way to defend.

From my example, I was iishanten very early and tenpai two discards later, with my discard pile showing mostly honors and only a few manzu tiles/1s/1p. Plus, one of my winning tile would be a terminal, either 1m or 9s (in fact it was both). So in this specific situation, I would prefer Toitoi to Chitoi. And I think as a general rule, an early Toitoi tenpai is often meaningless to defend against. From the POV of the person with Toitoi tenpai, one or two players may have the necessarily tiles to defend against triplets-only, but the probability that all 3 players have safe tiles for the rest of the game is...not that probable. So based on past experiences, Toitoi early = most of the time ron, Toitoi late = most of the time you bail/deal into someone.

Scene 6 - 7m or 8m?

I completely missed that discarding the 8m would introduce a third wait. Someone else missed it also (not naming any names!) so I don't feel too bad...right? But then Kyuu comes back saying that discarding the 7m leads to Pinfu. So uh...well, who knows to be honest? XD

Scene 10 - discard red dora 5m?

After reading all the comments, I have to agree most with kuuderes_shadow here. If I defend the whole way and get a draw, no-ten will bring me to second place. If I attack, I would (probably) be safe from South's big hand, and possibly deal into East's cheap hand. So it seems like defending can't keep my lead, and attacking gives me a 50/50 chance to survive and maybe win on a damaten Pinfu. Now East (second place) does look like he's tenpai, which means while I have a high chance of dealing into him, if I defended, he could ron anyone or tsumo and surpass me. The key here I think is that I had an extremely good chance at staying 2nd place regardless of what I do, so go for the slim chance for 1st place.

Scene 4 - open kan for Rinshan?

For skutieos, I got a 4s after kan. It does look quite dangerous, and since I analyzed that the 5m is safe, I should have discarded the 5m to keep tenpai instead of the 1s. Do you consider the 4s to be dangerous too?

Another point that was brought up is that since South (who riichi) discarded two 7's, most people agree that he probably doesn't have a 58m wait, and the 25m wait is impossible because of furiten, so the 5m is safe from South. What I didn't consider was that East could be tenpai too, and if he has a yaku, he would not riichi because he's in the lead. I'm not too great at reading tenpai without calls, but I may have glanced over and see that he's been discarding mostly terminal tiles, so probably bad draws and not yet tenpai. But you're right that I completely missed how East could have been tenpai, and discarding the 5m could have been disastrous.

Scene 7.5 - riichi after dealer riichi showing 4 dora

Now this is an interesting one. Most of you, even me, thought it would be absolutely crazy to riichi while East riichi with at least 5 han if won. But Kyuu thinks differently, noting that the 2p discard was safe and someone might discard a 9s to defend against East, one of the winning tiles, which someone did. Knowing this, would other people change their mind? If no one discards the 9p, you could be free falling into a dealer haneman.

I brought this up because I had a nice 3-way wait that was ruined by what I thought was a stupid riichi, but maybe it wasn't.

Scene 3 - quick open Tanyao

I think there was some confusion here. I'm not asking what I should do now, but whether or not my two calls should've been done. So basically, was going for a cheap open tanyao a good idea, or should I have not call and try to make a closed hand for more value? Pro: Tenpai in 5 discards. Con: Started with good hand with only one honor, with gutshot runs but could be filled for pinfu tanyao riichi later on.
Modified by KholdStare88, 06-17-12, 2:24 AM

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06-17-12, 6:35 AM

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Scene 6: How does dropping the 7man give you pinfu when you have a triplet of 3pin?
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06-17-12, 12:45 PM

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KholdStare88 said:

I think there was some confusion here. I'm not asking what I should do now, but whether or not my two calls should've been done. So basically, was going for a cheap open tanyao a good idea, or should I have not call and try to make a closed hand for more value? Pro: Tenpai in 5 discards. Con: Started with good hand with only one honor, with gutshot runs but could be filled for pinfu tanyao riichi later on.


You're in 2nd place, so going for a quick win is a pretty good option. Who knows, if you stayed concealed, maybe West would have won the round. Or worse, East. Once I'm in second place, I do anything to keep my lead. This usually results in me either going for a fast hand, or a complete preemptive fold of the entire hand by dealing all my simples. Offensive when it makes sense, defensive at all other times.

Of course, that all changes in 3rd or 4th place. Then I'd stay concealed and go for some sort of mangan. It's relatively easy to make something like Riichi, Pinfu, Tanyao, Dora 1.
Modified by skutieos, 06-17-12, 12:48 PM
 
06-17-12, 2:39 PM

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kuuderes_shadow said:
Scene 6: How does dropping the 7man give you pinfu when you have a triplet of 3pin?


Whoops. I was wrong. Pinfu had become my favorite Ninja Weapon of choice. XD

Sometimes, I may stare at a certain part of a hand and disregard the rest of it -- 'cause they're already melded (needing less of my attention).

I'm gettin' old. XD

===

Chi Toi vs Toi Toi

Believe it or not, Toi Toi is actually slow, for a hand that can rely on open calls.

Here's something on defending Toi Toi:
http://www.osamuko.com/yaku-defense-guide-toitoi-and-yakuhai/

Khold said:
if you know I'm going for Toitoi, there's not much you can do about it


Dump tiles that have already been dropped, meaning less likely to be pon or ron.
Modified by KyuuAL, 06-17-12, 3:05 PM
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06-18-12, 12:47 AM

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Here goes.

Modified by MrNostalgic, 06-18-12, 12:52 AM
 
06-18-12, 4:56 PM

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Here's my 2 cents
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06-19-12, 9:23 PM

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06-19-12, 11:33 PM

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Oohoshi_Awai said:
http://www.saki-anime.com/1st/nanikiru/

Pretty fun?


Oh nice. How often does this update?
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06-19-12, 11:42 PM

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Ooo. The site allows you to make your own custom ones:

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06-20-12, 1:37 AM

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Easy mode: WWYD

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06-20-12, 7:23 AM

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KyuuAL said:
Oohoshi_Awai said:
http://www.saki-anime.com/1st/nanikiru/

Pretty fun?


Oh nice. How often does this update?


There's A LOT of them, just go for next button below... after choosing.

XD
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06-20-12, 7:27 AM

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7 pin. or hatsu.

...
Spot on?
And since you're on the lead, I don't see why you'll go on the offense...
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06-20-12, 10:50 AM

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Would be tempted to go with the 5man, but defensively discarding the 3pin or 7pin would be better here, and would probably be what I would do. Either that or the timer would run out and make me throw out the red dragon.
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06-21-12, 7:31 AM

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The 6 of lines. Should be safe as he threw the 4 and 2 on the first and second go around, and then continued throwing lines. But honestly it doesn't really matter which safe tile to throw since it's up to dealer to decide whether to prolong(risk getting into tenpai) this game or not. But by throwing the 6 at least you have a slim hope of winning/tenpai by waiting on the tanki chun.
Plus it's also a one of the 3 center tiles. Most likely it is some sort of a weird chanta or honroutou hand with a crapload terminals, since he might not know how to count points in order to exceed the leader. Otherwise if it was a baiman hand he would have stayed silent. I presume it ended with a draw right? Unless a tsumo...

Hmm on second thought screw it, the dealer won't risk getting into tenpai anyway, so just throw a definite safe tile.
 
06-23-12, 8:02 AM

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What would you go for with that?

What I did:
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06-23-12, 12:03 PM

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What I'll do:
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06-24-12, 12:27 AM

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06-24-12, 12:32 AM

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KyuuAL said:
Easy mode: WWYD



Posting what happened in this picture:

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06-24-12, 12:34 AM

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@kuuderes_shadow

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07-05-12, 6:20 PM

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Here's a Furiten Tenpai.

* Do you call Riichi?
* If yes, when?
* If no, then do you bail?
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07-05-12, 11:09 PM

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I wouldn't riichi, I'd just wait for Tsumo with no other yaku. Either that or fold if someone riichis/looks suspicious.

Alternatively, you can deal an 8 man and wait for 6 or 9 man, and riichi by discarding either a 4 or 8 pin. If you got 6 sou, you could even stay silent for tanyao.

Modified by skutieos, 11-27-12, 6:11 PM
 
07-06-12, 11:26 AM

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KyuuAL said:
Here's a Furiten Tenpai.

* Do you call Riichi?
* If yes, when?
* If no, then do you bail?


You have 12 winning tiles, 4 of which have been discarded. Best case scenario - 8/26 the next time you draw. So you could probably get away with just being damaten and winning under furiten conditions.

You can definitely get away with a riichi though, as over the last 2 days I've been feeling like i need to go against what the game expects me to do in order to win so I've furiten riichied twice and won within 2 draws both times :P

In the end, the hand has the chance to explode into tsumo, tanyao, pinfu, sanshoku, dora for 18000, so it would be hard to pull away from the hand(if you riichi, you get a baiman with ura dora 1) and it's hard to really see many tiles being overly risky to make such a nice hand. Even the worst of your wins (9p) is tsumo, pinfu, dora and you'd nab the 2300 in the middle which makes 4900 points i believe and sets you up for the last 2 rounds
 
07-06-12, 2:05 PM

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Well, I can tell you the result of the hand:



But most certainly. The furiten discouraged me from calling riichi at all. As far as the end result of this game entirely, I managed to win without riichi. Nevertheless, I'll acknowledge the case of "damn, I shoulda called riichi".
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08-25-12, 3:29 AM

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Time for another one of these:


what happened:
Modified by kuuderes_shadow, 08-25-12, 3:46 AM
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08-26-12, 9:49 AM

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8-pin.

Defend against player to the left in Riichi. Relatively cheap hand across. Plus, still have the option to either call on some pinzu to complete the hand, or just defend with them.
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10-26-12, 3:26 AM

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A wild Kyuu has appeared!

1) Throw a pon.
2) Chuck a chi.
3) Toss some food.
4) Throw a Love Ball.

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11-05-12, 10:20 AM

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Because we haven't had one of these for a while.

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11-05-12, 11:57 AM

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Having 4 pairs. That's always a cocktease. But definitely keeping that 4-sou. Looking to drop either 5-man, 7-man, or 7-pin. IF Chii Toitsu is the desired course.

IF not looking to go Chii Toitsu, but something else? Then break one of the pairs, and continue.
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11-06-12, 11:26 PM

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Never commit to toitoi. Assume you're going to go for toitoi, which means I would start discarding middle tiles that you wouldn't want to wait on if you reach tenpai, or when it's dangerous later on. If you draw a triplet, don't start calling yet. I would only consider toitoi if I get a 2nd triplet.

5m

If you get a triplet before getting your 5th pair, keep it. So you'll have:

aaa bb cc dd <- this is not good enough material for a triplet-only hand

If you draw a 5th pair and one is a triplet, drop the triplet immediately, unless a single tile you have has already been discarded twice.

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02-12-13, 4:29 PM

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Here's an interesting choice between two yaku:



And apparently, I made the wrong choice:
http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2013021121gm-0009-7447-173492b3&tw=1&ts=4

Tanyao + Sanshoku + Iipeiko + Dora 2

vs

Tanyao + Ryanpeiko + Dora 2

NOTE: Han count is the same. Shanten count also the same. 1-shanten for either.
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