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May 3, 2012 10:05 AM
#1
Basically. Look at the hand. What would you discard? Here's a whole section of 'em in ReachMahjong: http://www.reachmahjong.com/en/forum/viewforum.php?f=49 Otherwise, we'll do some of our own here. |
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May 3, 2012 10:40 AM
#2
How about this one for starters? |
There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
May 3, 2012 1:51 PM
#3
8-pin. Safe tile against the riichi to your left. Plus, you'll be 1-shanten. |
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May 23, 2012 11:32 PM
#4
OK. I declared riichi. That's your hand. Don't mind my points. I had a shitty game. XD What would you discard? |
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May 24, 2012 9:12 PM
#5
Well... 7-man looks safe. A 5-6 ryanmen wait would be furiten for you, a shanpon or a tanki wait is also impossible due to the pon of the south player. All that's left is the 9-8 wait, but three 9-mans and two 8-mans are in the discard pond already, so it's unlikely, and on top of that, no one would be crazy enough to wait on that single 7-man. So... how many points did I lose? xD On a sidenote, depending on my mood I'd take apart the hand and throw away the 6-pin since it's a 100% safe tile to your riichi and my hand is not worth much. The correct play would be this, but I'm not the type who always play in the most efficient way :) |
May 25, 2012 11:56 AM
#6
Yakuman said: Well... 7-man looks safe. A 5-6 ryanmen wait would be furiten for you, a shanpon or a tanki wait is also impossible due to the pon of the south player. All that's left is the 9-8 wait, but three 9-mans and two 8-mans are in the discard pond already, so it's unlikely, and on top of that, no one would be crazy enough to wait on that single 7-man. So... how many points did I lose? xD With Ippatsu. Haneman. XD |
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Jun 15, 2012 6:52 PM
#7
Well this thread looks a bit sad so I'll give it a post. Here's one of the very close games I just played. Inside the spoiler is what I did, which does NOT mean what I did was right, but just the results of what happened after a split second decision. Pardon this long post, but it may help me get some insight on your opinions on tile efficiency and possibly help others as well. Scene 1: What would you do? Note that West has riichi. Discard the 1p without riichi. The hand itself is 30f 4h if ron (pinfu + 10 fu for ron w/ closed hand) for 7700 and if Tsumo, 5h for 8000. So I damaten (silent tenpai) and ron off East with 5m the very next turn for 7700. In hindsight, I missed a Riichi + Ippatsu which would've given me a haneman. So the question becomes, if I riichi, would that scare East into not discarding the 5m? And instead of a haneman, I don't win and may deal into someone else? Tough question. Here's his hand: So he was damaten for 7 pairs, which means he could either discard the 8p (better chance to win with if kept) or the 5m (worse chance to win, but you still get tenpai, and a more dangerous discard) if he still wants to attack. What do you guys think? He was attacking through the first riichi, so I believe he will attack again. But whether or not he would discard the 8p or 5m is a toss up. Scene 2: What would you do? You're iishanten, and you have 67m and 78p left. You can start discarding the 6m/7p and when you pon the red dragon, discard the remaining 7m/8p for tenpai. North is seriously scaring me, probably a Honitsu of some sort (probably not honrou because he discarded 1p, and two 1m/9m/9s has been discarded safely), but with a dora that could be mangan. My hand is worth 2 han so I decided to bail. The red dragons seem safer than discarding a pin (because North barely discarded any), so I start by discarding a red dragon. Note that a chi of 5m/8m/6p can get me tenpai with a possible Tanyao. This happens. Oh curse me, I could have pon that! A few turns later, I never got tenpai for Tanyao, and West tsumo a haneman while I'm East! Ouch. North was tenpai with a honitsu after all, and pins were dangerous like I thought (and would've won if I discarded the 78p). However, if I were to keep the red dragons, I would have discarded the 67m anyways, because winning off a terminal, 9p (keeping 78p) is easier than winning off the 58m. So I would not have dealt into North nor West. Still, West would've tsumo before I get a winning tile regardless of what I do, so what do you guys think was the best course of action? To review... 1) Discard red dragons, you have a pair of them and they're likely safe. Try to make Tanyao later. 2) Discard 67m, hoping to pon the red dragon later, assuming North has honitsu with pins. However, if you're wrong, North could very well be keeping three 4m tiles (passed on the kan to trick you) and ron you with Yakuhai Dora 3, or some Toitoi Dora Yakuhai hand. Scene 3: This is about what I've already done, which is two quick calls (for gutshot tiles) to get fast open Tanyao cheap hand while in 2nd place. I won very soon after, for 1000. So would you have tried to make a bigger hand here? Scene 4: What would you have done? South just riichi. I am waiting on a lone tile, red 5m, presumably because I wanted to make my hand worth 4 han. I kan'd for a chance at rinshan kaihou, and failed. The reasoning is I have a triplet of 1s which are very safe if I didn't get rinshan kaihou, and that's exactly what I discarded the next 3 turns to defend. The problem here is that I missed how the 5m is probably safe! South discarded 2m so he's furiten for the 34m wait. He could still win with a 67m wait, but he's already discarded two 7m tiles! So with this extra info, would you: 1) Pass the kan then discard the 5m for a better wait 2) Kan and if no tsumo, discard the 5m for a better wait 3) What I did, kan and if no tsumo, bail with 1s 4) Pass the kan and bail with the 100% safe tile 9s 5) Pass the kan and bail with the probably safe 5m, assuming you draw a better wait Result of round: Draw. Scene 5: First draw of the game gives you 5 pairs. Would you go for Toitoi/Chitoi, or try for someone else since you have a lot of pins that could turn into runs? I did the "let's see what we get" game and finally went with Toitoi. Note that I passed on pon with the 2p early, because I did not want to commit myself to Toitoi. Then I didn't draw any useful runs, and once that 6s came into my hand I was full speed ahead for Toitoi. North dealt into me with an 8p. Scene 6: You are tenpai with no yaku, and no one shows tenpai yet so you will probably have to riichi here. Would you discard the 7m for a double sided wait (69m) or 8m for a two pair wait (7m/5s)? Riichi and discard the 7m. A double sided wait is usually better than a two pair wait. In this case it's much better because one of your wait is 9m, a terminal. There are still three 9m out there that people often discard either hoping for it to be a safe tile or it doesn't complement their hand. Result of round: I tsumo the 6m without any uradora. EDIT: Important! Read Kyu's post after mine! I mis-analyzed the situation and discarding the 8m actually give you a 3-sided wait! (47m5s) Scene 7: You're tenpai. The 3456s shape is good because it can be seen as 34s and 56s. You have the opportunity to kan 4 dora here and still keep your hand closed for riichi if you didn't get the right tile. But you'll be showing that you have 4 dora, everyone else will probably play VERY cautiously around you. So do you kan, or discard the 4m with riichi? I chose to kan just because...well, I don't wait to riichi with an inside wait. It didn't work, but eventually I got a better (double-sided) wait and riichi. However, North followed up my riichi and while I didn't deal into his hand, someone else did...and it was an empty riichi. So someone had the nerve to follow up my riichi while I was showing 4 dora. This makes for another interesting puzzle. Scene 7.5: (Note: I'm no longer the player on the bottom. This is from the POV of another player.) Would you riichi here? East has riichi before you. It would be an empty riichi since you have no yaku, and you are basically hoping for ippatsu or uradora 2 at best. The tile that you would riichi with is 2p, one of East's discards, so you will not deal into East in the first turn. He did riichi, but personally I wouldn't. Now instead of looking at the hand, we look at the scores. It's South 2 and you're last, so you have to start attacking very soon. But is this the hand to do so? East is just riichi showing 4 dora, so that's already a dealer mangan. With Riichi + Pinfu/Tanyao/Red Dora/Iipeiko, you're going against a dealer haneman with an empty riichi. This is not a good idea. Result: South dealt into him for only 1300 while defending against East, a wise choice. Scene 8: West just riichi. Keep attacking or defend? You are second place and very close to first, so you don't want fall into third place, yet if West wins, you'll only have South 4 to get first place, if you're trying to go for it. I defended. In hindsight this was a bad idea. Note the score, I have 34600 and West has 13600. If I deal into his mangan, I would still keep second place. I have to deal into a haneman to fall to third. Look at my hand. I have 3 dora. If I draw the 6m, damaten ron + Pinfu + Dora 3 is 7700 (Tsumo is 8000). If I call the 6m, open Tanyao + Dora 3 is 7700. So in either case, I have a big enough hand that I should have continued to attack, so I believe this was a huge error for me. Result: Draw. First and second no-ten, third and fourth tenpai, which is typical this late. Scene 9: You have five disjointed pairs, and the chance to pon the 7p. You basically have two options here, pon for Toitoi, or pass for Chitoi. What would you do? Push. If you pon, you still have two terminal pairs (1m and 9s) left which, if one of them is your wait when you're tenpai for Toitoi, then you're in great shape. However, if you draw your 6th pair, note that you have a 1p and 1s in your hand, either of which is a great wait for Chitoi also! You can argue that you can riichi a Chitoi with a terminal wait (Nodoka anyone?) making it better than a Toitoi, but it may be faster to complete your Toitoi hand. I pon for Toitoi and got it fast, but unfortunately someone ron before I did. Scene 9.5: (Note: I'm no longer the player on the bottom. This is from the POV of another player.) What would you discard here? You are leading. North (me) looks like he's going for Toitoi. East called pins twice, so he's probably going for Honitsu or Chinitsu. I should avoid discarding any pins, even if it's 57p, and give up on my hand. What actually happened is he discarded the 6p into a Chinitsu Dora dealer haneman. Ouch. Bad idea. Scene 10: It's South 4, and you're in first place. You have a tenpai hand, but you need to discard a red 5m. With two other players probably tenpai, is it safe? What would you do? West is obviously going for a Toitoi, with Yakuhai and Dora showing, so at least a 7700 hand. But if you bother to count fu, you'd see that two terminal/honor triplets are called, leading to 8 fu. Regardless of what the other two tripets are, he will have a total of at least 12 fu, or 20 + 12 = 32 -> 40 fu 4 han, which is 8000! If you get ron'd here, you'll go down to 23600 points, exactly the same score as North. So you want to proceed with caution. Regardless of what East does, if he wins off anyone or tsumo even with 1 han, he will steal your first place. This is why it's safe to assume he's not going for Toitoi but rather a cheap 1 han Yakuhai hand to end the game. This means you have to attack. But it's unwise to discard a completely dangerous tile, so how safe is the 5m? Since South is doing Toitoi and you have already discarded a 5m before, it's very unlikely that he has the other two 5m, so it's worth the risk. You could deal immediately into East, but if you do nothing and defend the entire round, chances are he would win before you do or draw with tenpai and you with no-ten anyways. So with the only danger being dealing into East's quick Yakuhai hand instead of South's Toitoi, your worst will be second place. Therefore, you should discard the red 5m. Note that you already have a Pinfu hand, so you don't need to riichi for a yaku. Also, if you riichi you will fall immediately to second place, so if something happens like South wins off North or vice versa, you'll look stupid because the sole reason you got second place is because you riichi. So I discarded the 5m (which predictably passed) for damaten Pinfu, and Tsumo a 1m in the next few turns. It turns out neither East nor South was tenpai. |
KholdStare88Jun 17, 2012 1:37 AM
Jun 15, 2012 11:11 PM
#8
OK. Kyuu's answers. XD 1. Just got to tenpai with pinfu for a 5-8 man wait, of which, West has a safe tile on the 8 man. Drop the 1 pin and remain in damaten to see how things go. With 2 draws left, y'may win or just remain tenpai. 2. Hmm. The open chii leaves working with only 2 yaku: chun or tanyao. With this, test North to see if he's going for Tsu Iiso and/or Dansaigen. So, I'd drop a chun right here. Then the other for good measure. 3. Remain on that 5-8 man wait, unless something may seem to appear fishy. 4. Sitting in 2nd in South 4. South calls a riichi. If the drawn tile is not a safe tile, then drop one of the 9-pin and gain some time to get tenpai again. 5. This is definitely a Chii Toi hand at 1-shanten. Too many toitsu (pairs) to force the hand's shape into something else. 6. Riichi and drop the 8-man. This produces a 4-7 man wait with 5-sou. OR Hold onto tenpai in the hopes of getting a 6-sou. Of course, best not to wait too long. 7. Call Kan, and see what you get. May not need to call riichi right away, in the hopes of drawing a 2-5 sou for a better wait pattern. Otherwise, work with the closed 7. 7.5. Take the tenpai and call riichi, with the 6-9 pin wait, which is one of East's safe tiles. 8. Two guaranteed defense tiles with the pair of hatsu. So, defend here with those and see how the next two draws turn out. 9. Chii Toitsu 1-shanten. Stick with it. 10. Discard 2-man. And again on the next turn. The pair of 8-sou already function as the hand's pair. Might as well use that. 11. Hmmm. Dropping the red 5-man creates an ideal hand to close the game out: a pinfu. The point standing does not require riichi either. However, nasty against the other two players who might actually want it. It'll depend on the mood, I suppose: be gutsy, or play chicken. Either play may lead to victory or defeat. |
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Jun 16, 2012 12:29 AM
#9
My answers: scene 1 I would have done the same as you scene 2 - discard the (black) 5 man. You can now wait to pon the red dragon and select a pair wait out of the 7/8p when you do so. scene 3 - there aren't many ways for a bigger hand there that wouldn't take a long time. All the obvious hand value boosters would require you to be menzen. scene 4 - I NEVER do daiminkans. Except once which was just to check how they worked with tile placements. There's no higher chance of getting the tile from rinshan kaihou than from a draw. What's more, with him in riichi, he stands to gain more from it than you do. You've got a mangan there anyway, unless you discard the 5m. Even then you could be looking at 7700. Whether or not you bail with the 5m depends on what you draw. scene 5 - start by discarding the 3m, then the 2s (assuming you don't draw one next time). If the draws by that point lend themselves to a honitsu/chinitsu with pin tiles then I would go after that. If not, then I would go for chitoi/toitoi. scene 6 - discard the 8m. You are forgetting that this actually gives a 3rd wait - 4m would also be a winning tile with 456/777m 333p 55/789s (I assume your answer you meant to discard the 7m) scene 7 - discard the dora and call riichi on the 7 pin wait. You have 3 dora anyway, which, with a riichi added to it guarantees you a reasonable hand. scene 7.5 - hell no. scene 8 - Discard the green dragons then the 5s assuming the situation doesn't change. Those dragons can only provide you with a pair and they are completely safe from anything other than kokushi, which clearly isnt happening here. The 5s is also the safest discard in your hand other than the green dragons AND doesn't help your hand progress. Here attacking and defending involve doing more or less the same thing, at least for a while. scene 9 - pon. I always chase after toitoi because chitoi is so frustrating. scene 9.5 - 5s. 5s seems as safe as anything and does nothing for his hand. scene 10 - the 5m would be safe from the person to your left. But it's the player opposite that you need to be cautious of. Even playing into a weak hand of just the dragon would make you lose. But if he won of someone else you would also lose, as you would in an exhaustive draw if you defended. So attack is the best form of defense. There's already a 5m on the table, and no 2m (the other choice of discard there while still attacking). If he wins off it then there was probably nothing for you to do safely other than discarding the 9p anyway. Don't declare riichi. That would help your opponent no end. Pinfu should be enough for you. |
There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
Jun 16, 2012 10:57 AM
#10
Here's what I would do. 1. discard 1 pin, don't riichi 2. discard the 7 man and later the 6 man, go for chun and red 5 hand 3. wait for someone to deal in, fold if someone riichis 4. It would be nice if we saw what tile you were given after this. I would still try to win off the 5 man unless I got a dangerous tile. In that case, I'd drop the 5 man, since it looks relatively safe, and wait on the dangerous tile. If I got another dangerous tile, I'd start dropping 9 pins and fold. 5. I'd go for chii-toi-tsu, and probably drop the 3 man. It would be nice to get the red 5 in there, so I'd keep that until another 5 pin came out. If your wait was on the south, you'd get dealt into easily, so I'd likely keep that as well. 6. I find myself going for dual pon waits often, but they are basically half as likely to get dealt into. There are 4 six mans and 3 nine mans still on the board, giving you a total of 7 outs. With the dual pon, you'd only have 4. edit - After reading kyuus I realized his idea was better. See below. 7. Kan that shit and pull in a 7 sou from the dead wall, obviously :P Seriously though, I'd kan, and on the OFF CHANCE THAT I DON'T GET RINSHAN (<-sarcasm), I'd still go for a win. Dealer haneman, worth the risk. 7.5. As a general rule, I always fold to a dealer riichi. Why go for some 1-han crap and risk dealing in to the dealer? 8. I'd drop a 5 sou for now and play cautiously. Manzu looks very unsafe, but you can still implement manzu into your hand, so you don't necessarily have to deal it. If eventually you get a manzu tile you can't use and it still isn't a safe tile, I'd fold by dropping the hatsus and then any other safe tiles. Speaking of the hatsu, you might as well drop it now, unless you plan on drawing in another 9 sou, which isn't too likely. Can't do much with 2 lone pairs. 9. Chii-toi-tsu is easier at this point, and you can stay concealed. Don't even riichi, you're in the lead and just need a quick win to get to the south 4th, and you'll get dealt into with no problems, anyways. 9.5. 2 pin is safe. Start folding, those two players are either in tenpai or very close. 10. I think I'd fold, starting with the 9 pin, and either come in first if south wins the round, or 2nd if dealer wins. Either way you raise your rate, sounds good to me. Various edits/responses after reading Kyuu's @2 - Dai san gen is impossible here, and tsu ii sou looks very unlikely, if not impossible. I dunno if dropping his possible fanpai is a good idea. He could still easily nab a 2 han hand. @4 - Kyuu, is there a reason you think the 5 man isn't safe? I suppose the dealer might be in silent tenpai... Actually on second thought, I wouldn't risk dealing it, you're right. @6 - Oh snap, I didn't even see the 4-7 man wait he could have had. That looks like a better option, since 4 man will eventually be dealt as a safe tile against the dealer. Comment on KholdStare88's toi toi vs. chiitoitsu dilemmas - As far as the chiitoitsu vs toi toi argument, CONCEALED HANDS ARE BETTER. Why? People don't notice them, and you often can make yaku without riiching, nabbing a win off someone who can't even tell you're in tenpai. Chiitoitsu was a supremely superior option in both the cases where you considered it. I would consider toi toi if my starting hand had 3 pairs, or if I had a concealed triplet as well as a 2-3 pairs. Chiitoitsu is hard if you don't start with 4 pairs, so at that point, toi toi would be faster and you still have good chances. I would also consider toi toi in 3 player :P |
kingw0rmJun 16, 2012 11:31 AM
Jun 16, 2012 1:20 PM
#11
On Toi Toi. It is easier to pull off if you possess an ankou. (LOL @ mixing Japanese into English) So freakin' Kawaii~~!! XD Anyways. Ever played a game where you made a bunch of early calls chi/pon -- and then -- suddenly, for the rest of the hand, it starts to "feel" difficult completing the rest of the hand? @skutieos 2. Oh, my bad. I was too busy fantasizing about that. Needs moar Dansaigens! XD 4. 5-man not safe? At this point, it's unknown. You don't know it if it safe. Therefore, dropping at least one 9-pin is a good option. Despite using ninja tenpais, I have yet to know how to detect those. Definitely, East could be pulling that kind of shenanigan. Oh, and Khold knows the very penalty of blindly dropping a red 5 against someone's riichi. (Yea, when I dropped one and paid for it) XD Yet, looking at South's discards, he might not be looking for a 5-8 man. Thus, it can become a matter on the tile draw. 6. Y'know what I didn't realize? Dropping 7-man produces pinfu. So, the choice becomes a 3-sided combination wait, or opting to get pinfu on a 6-9 man wait. |
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Jun 17, 2012 2:20 AM
#12
Wow, thanks for the responses. I have a few comments of my own. Toitoi vs. Chitoi As a general rule, Chitoi is unpredictable and although it's a single tile wait, your opponent doesn't know you're tenpai. However, if you don't have any completely safe tiles (as in the tiles I discarded), then even if you know I'm going for Toitoi, there's not much you can do about it. You can't use any rules and guess my furiten tiles using possible runs...because I don't have any runs. So even if you know I'm tenpai, you can be unlucky and has absolutely no way to defend. From my example, I was iishanten very early and tenpai two discards later, with my discard pile showing mostly honors and only a few manzu tiles/1s/1p. Plus, one of my winning tile would be a terminal, either 1m or 9s (in fact it was both). So in this specific situation, I would prefer Toitoi to Chitoi. And I think as a general rule, an early Toitoi tenpai is often meaningless to defend against. From the POV of the person with Toitoi tenpai, one or two players may have the necessarily tiles to defend against triplets-only, but the probability that all 3 players have safe tiles for the rest of the game is...not that probable. So based on past experiences, Toitoi early = most of the time ron, Toitoi late = most of the time you bail/deal into someone. Scene 6 - 7m or 8m? I completely missed that discarding the 8m would introduce a third wait. Someone else missed it also (not naming any names!) so I don't feel too bad...right? But then Kyuu comes back saying that discarding the 7m leads to Pinfu. So uh...well, who knows to be honest? XD Scene 10 - discard red dora 5m? After reading all the comments, I have to agree most with kuuderes_shadow here. If I defend the whole way and get a draw, no-ten will bring me to second place. If I attack, I would (probably) be safe from South's big hand, and possibly deal into East's cheap hand. So it seems like defending can't keep my lead, and attacking gives me a 50/50 chance to survive and maybe win on a damaten Pinfu. Now East (second place) does look like he's tenpai, which means while I have a high chance of dealing into him, if I defended, he could ron anyone or tsumo and surpass me. The key here I think is that I had an extremely good chance at staying 2nd place regardless of what I do, so go for the slim chance for 1st place. Scene 4 - open kan for Rinshan? For skutieos, I got a 4s after kan. It does look quite dangerous, and since I analyzed that the 5m is safe, I should have discarded the 5m to keep tenpai instead of the 1s. Do you consider the 4s to be dangerous too? Another point that was brought up is that since South (who riichi) discarded two 7's, most people agree that he probably doesn't have a 58m wait, and the 25m wait is impossible because of furiten, so the 5m is safe from South. What I didn't consider was that East could be tenpai too, and if he has a yaku, he would not riichi because he's in the lead. I'm not too great at reading tenpai without calls, but I may have glanced over and see that he's been discarding mostly terminal tiles, so probably bad draws and not yet tenpai. But you're right that I completely missed how East could have been tenpai, and discarding the 5m could have been disastrous. Scene 7.5 - riichi after dealer riichi showing 4 dora Now this is an interesting one. Most of you, even me, thought it would be absolutely crazy to riichi while East riichi with at least 5 han if won. But Kyuu thinks differently, noting that the 2p discard was safe and someone might discard a 9s to defend against East, one of the winning tiles, which someone did. Knowing this, would other people change their mind? If no one discards the 9p, you could be free falling into a dealer haneman. I brought this up because I had a nice 3-way wait that was ruined by what I thought was a stupid riichi, but maybe it wasn't. Scene 3 - quick open Tanyao I think there was some confusion here. I'm not asking what I should do now, but whether or not my two calls should've been done. So basically, was going for a cheap open tanyao a good idea, or should I have not call and try to make a closed hand for more value? Pro: Tenpai in 5 discards. Con: Started with good hand with only one honor, with gutshot runs but could be filled for pinfu tanyao riichi later on. |
KholdStare88Jun 17, 2012 2:24 AM
Jun 17, 2012 6:35 AM
#13
Scene 6: How does dropping the 7man give you pinfu when you have a triplet of 3pin? |
There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
Jun 17, 2012 12:45 PM
#14
KholdStare88 said: I think there was some confusion here. I'm not asking what I should do now, but whether or not my two calls should've been done. So basically, was going for a cheap open tanyao a good idea, or should I have not call and try to make a closed hand for more value? Pro: Tenpai in 5 discards. Con: Started with good hand with only one honor, with gutshot runs but could be filled for pinfu tanyao riichi later on. You're in 2nd place, so going for a quick win is a pretty good option. Who knows, if you stayed concealed, maybe West would have won the round. Or worse, East. Once I'm in second place, I do anything to keep my lead. This usually results in me either going for a fast hand, or a complete preemptive fold of the entire hand by dealing all my simples. Offensive when it makes sense, defensive at all other times. Of course, that all changes in 3rd or 4th place. Then I'd stay concealed and go for some sort of mangan. It's relatively easy to make something like Riichi, Pinfu, Tanyao, Dora 1. |
kingw0rmJun 17, 2012 12:48 PM
Jun 17, 2012 2:39 PM
#15
kuuderes_shadow said: Scene 6: How does dropping the 7man give you pinfu when you have a triplet of 3pin? Whoops. I was wrong. Pinfu had become my favorite Ninja Weapon of choice. XD Sometimes, I may stare at a certain part of a hand and disregard the rest of it -- 'cause they're already melded (needing less of my attention). I'm gettin' old. XD === Chi Toi vs Toi Toi Believe it or not, Toi Toi is actually slow, for a hand that can rely on open calls. Here's something on defending Toi Toi: http://www.osamuko.com/yaku-defense-guide-toitoi-and-yakuhai/ Khold said: if you know I'm going for Toitoi, there's not much you can do about it Dump tiles that have already been dropped, meaning less likely to be pon or ron. |
KyuuALJun 17, 2012 3:05 PM
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Jun 18, 2012 12:47 AM
#16
Here goes. No tl;dr sorry... Scenario 1: Only 8 tiles left. Easy reads on South and West. Damaten chuck the 1 because of suji. If draw character tiles, you can change waits depending on what you may draw. If dangerous sou/pin tile toss it and hope for the best. You want to be first as FAST as possible in a game as it widens options. Very likely to be mentanpin or some variation but as he's not dealer it ain't something to fret over. Scenario 2: Chi on the 234 is a bad idea considering you screwed yourself for riichi or yakuhai. Toss yakuhai not too smart as you may furiten on the 9 draw at some point even if you refuse to toss pin. Tossing the 5m best idea as you can bail from the 3-4 han 30-40 fu hand to the left and possible yakuhai pon for a low scoring hand. And 8 or 7 pin is a no go for obvious reasons even though left doesn't seem to be in tenpai, most likely 1 shanten away. You don't want to make left even happier by given free pons. Slight EDIT: After some consideration, it is actually better you throw the 6,7m as a pon on the yakuhai and the 5m for the pair, gives you waits on the 6,9s. Scenario 3: Dunno why you'd go for open pinfu tanyao considering no one seems to be shooting for massive hands or quick winning any time soon. But ok... 1 han 30 fu is just as good as a tenpai on a ryuukyoku. Shoulda gone for mentanpin, as it's a perfect hand for that. Scenario 4: Anything but a kan as extra dora is bad and it's already a mangan hand. 5 is a iffishly safe tile that can be tossed but I'd stay silent on this one and make your best judgment when it comes to throws as even a 3+ han hand to the left is unpredictable when it comes to luck ura-dora/aka-dora etc. Scenario 5: Go for chitoi as 1 shanten away toitoi puts you in 2 shanten I think. Toss 3 or 2 as a riichi waiting for the south can net an ippatsu. Scenario 6: Toss 8 puts you into a 3 side wait. Can become a sanankou/tanyao so no riichi. However the temptation to be dealer may warrant a riichi for that 1 han hand. Scenario 7: Kan the 4. It may scare off opponents but if you draw a 7 and you've tossed the 8 you're not gonna be happy. Still potential to be a tanyao if you draw certain sou tiles. so you don't have to declare riichi. If only open riichis existed then declare one as a mangan hand as dealer = no one is gonna throw into your hand. Scenario 7.5: Toss 2 don't even think about riichi as you're gonna be in the negatives after a throw into dealer mangan. Scenario 8: Passive offensive. Toss edge tiles, and other tiles you deem to be probably safe (cleared by opponents). Go for a quick tanyao as left looks to be a mentanpin or variation hand ie riichi tanyao or riichi yakuhai etc etc. Scenario 9: Don't take the pon and riichi for the chitoi on an edge tile. Try to deceive opponents for waits ie relying on suji, edge, or toss a bunch of one suit and wait on that suit. 3 han hand is not too bad as it should bring you to first I think... Scenario 9.5: Either toss 5s or toss 2m. I'd toss 2m as north is horribly lacking in defense against dealer and I'll just sit back and relax after I see a multitude of dangerous tiles thrown from north feeding into a chinitsu. Even a toitoi from north isn't bad as you're still in first I think...Ideal situation is a throw from north into the chinitsu/ honitsu. However watch out for West as it looks like is ain't a pretty hand. Either way north is going to suffer. Scenario 10: Throw 5 remain in damaten. If certain sou tiles don't even bother winning. However watch East closely, as if he seems to be in tenpai you'll have to get in tenpai too, but you'll have to consider the cost. If Haneman from South it's an immediate last place however you can risk a mangan/7700 from the south as it'll only put you in 3rd. All depends how much of a risk taker are you and how much risk the dealer will be willing to put on the line for first place. Personally I'd defend since 2nd isn't too bad, even if dealer somehow wins and also somehow doesn't throw into the haneman/mangan/7700. (Note: mangan/7700 = honitsu, haku, dora, and haneman = honitsu, haku, dora, toitoi). Phew I've got a lot of time on my hands! |
MrNostalgicJun 18, 2012 12:52 AM
Jun 18, 2012 4:56 PM
#17
Here's my 2 cents scene 1: drop 1 pin, goes damaten, or if you're confident, feels free to riichi, more exciting that way, especially if you got Toyone's senpu ability. :P scene 2: I think the person on the left is aiming for honitsu (w/pin tiles), that's why the lack of chun dropped. I'll drop the chuns, and aiming for quick open tanyao win. scene 3: ... Uh. Should've waited a while to see if you can get sanshoku scene 4: ... You didn't show us the next tile we'll get... If me probably just drop all those 9pin, and hoping for better-safe wait... And since the lack of dora dropped, it's possible that person has a set/pair of them on hands... scene 5: Definetely Chitoitsu. I'll keep the south, dropped the 2 sou. and if we got a lot of pin after them, go for chitoitsu - honitsu. scene 6: I'll drop 8 m, but won't riichi yet, waiting for possibility of tanyao... :O besides, 8 m will get you wait of 4/7m and 5 s.... scene 7: I'll kan. Sure, you'll show your 4 dora to the opponent, but looking at their discard, looks like your opponents not waiting around 7 sou, so they might drop it if going for offensive. scene 7,5: And waste 1k points stick? since it' s shown the left and front's stuffing 6, and 9 pin, so... scene 8: I'll keep attacking, but first thing first, drop that hatsu so at least I won't get ronned by ippatsu... scene 9: Chitoitsu- aside from me liking that yaku, toi toi is kinda slow... scene 9,5: that 2 pin looks pretty safe, it also passes before. scene 10: discard the 2 m, waiting for 4 m. ... wait, you have no yaku. Just plays defense, since your left is aiming for honitsu, and probably your front too... ... and hoping east won't win. >.> |
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Jun 19, 2012 9:23 PM
#18
http://www.saki-anime.com/1st/nanikiru/ Pretty fun? |
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Jun 19, 2012 11:33 PM
#19
Oohoshi_Awai said: http://www.saki-anime.com/1st/nanikiru/ Pretty fun? Oh nice. How often does this update? |
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Jun 19, 2012 11:42 PM
#20
Ooo. The site allows you to make your own custom ones: |
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Jun 20, 2012 1:37 AM
#21
Easy mode: WWYD |
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Jun 20, 2012 7:23 AM
#22
KyuuAL said: Oohoshi_Awai said: http://www.saki-anime.com/1st/nanikiru/ Pretty fun? Oh nice. How often does this update? There's A LOT of them, just go for next button below... after choosing. XD |
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Jun 20, 2012 7:27 AM
#23
7 pin. or hatsu. Just play defense since the person who has declare riichi doesn't have any terminals (and by exstension honor tiles on the pond), and no hatsu (green dragon detected) and chun dropped yet... and someone's stuffing the haku. Possible hand: Kokushi (!!), honrouto, chinrouto, honitsu (lack of man dropped), soushangen. ... Spot on? And since you're on the lead, I don't see why you'll go on the offense... |
Oohoshi_AwaiJun 20, 2012 8:05 AM
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Jun 20, 2012 10:50 AM
#24
Would be tempted to go with the 5man, but defensively discarding the 3pin or 7pin would be better here, and would probably be what I would do. Either that or the timer would run out and make me throw out the red dragon. |
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Jun 21, 2012 7:31 AM
#25
The 6 of lines. Should be safe as he threw the 4 and 2 on the first and second go around, and then continued throwing lines. But honestly it doesn't really matter which safe tile to throw since it's up to dealer to decide whether to prolong(risk getting into tenpai) this game or not. But by throwing the 6 at least you have a slim hope of winning/tenpai by waiting on the tanki chun. Plus it's also a one of the 3 center tiles. Most likely it is some sort of a weird chanta or honroutou hand with a crapload terminals, since he might not know how to count points in order to exceed the leader. Otherwise if it was a baiman hand he would have stayed silent. I presume it ended with a draw right? Unless a tsumo... Hmm on second thought screw it, the dealer won't risk getting into tenpai anyway, so just throw a definite safe tile. |
Jun 23, 2012 8:02 AM
#26
What would you go for with that? What I did: I went chasing after daisangen. Ended up tenpai at exhaustive draw. |
kuuderes_shadowJun 23, 2012 8:11 AM
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Jun 23, 2012 12:03 PM
#27
What I'll do: I'll drop the 8 sou after 5 pin -adding possibilities of people can call that tiles, Same, except maybe I'll go squueze all them honor tiles. But the south will be dropped, so : ( Aiming for tsuuiiishou insteaad of daisangen/shousangen honitsu? |
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Jun 24, 2012 12:32 AM
#29
Posting what happened in this picture: Player drops the Chun. Loses to Kokushi. XD |
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Jun 24, 2012 12:34 AM
#30
@kuuderes_shadow Looks like a good hand for Chanta, or even Honroto. If you're feeling ambitious, Tsuu Iiso. Either way. Having the pair of Ton and Hatsu. You have plenty to work with. |
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Jul 5, 2012 6:20 PM
#31
Here's a Furiten Tenpai. * Do you call Riichi? * If yes, when? * If no, then do you bail? |
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Jul 5, 2012 11:09 PM
#32
I wouldn't riichi, I'd just wait for Tsumo with no other yaku. Either that or fold if someone riichis/looks suspicious. Alternatively, you can deal an 8 man and wait for 6 or 9 man, and riichi by discarding either a 4 or 8 pin. If you got 6 sou, you could even stay silent for tanyao. |
kingw0rmNov 27, 2012 6:11 PM
Jul 6, 2012 11:26 AM
#33
KyuuAL said: Here's a Furiten Tenpai. * Do you call Riichi? * If yes, when? * If no, then do you bail? You have 12 winning tiles, 4 of which have been discarded. Best case scenario - 8/26 the next time you draw. So you could probably get away with just being damaten and winning under furiten conditions. You can definitely get away with a riichi though, as over the last 2 days I've been feeling like i need to go against what the game expects me to do in order to win so I've furiten riichied twice and won within 2 draws both times :P In the end, the hand has the chance to explode into tsumo, tanyao, pinfu, sanshoku, dora for 18000, so it would be hard to pull away from the hand(if you riichi, you get a baiman with ura dora 1) and it's hard to really see many tiles being overly risky to make such a nice hand. Even the worst of your wins (9p) is tsumo, pinfu, dora and you'd nab the 2300 in the middle which makes 4900 points i believe and sets you up for the last 2 rounds |
Jul 6, 2012 2:05 PM
#34
Well, I can tell you the result of the hand: 7 han (haitei) on a 3-pin. (8 if I called riichi) XD But most certainly. The furiten discouraged me from calling riichi at all. As far as the end result of this game entirely, I managed to win without riichi. Nevertheless, I'll acknowledge the case of "damn, I shoulda called riichi". |
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Aug 25, 2012 3:29 AM
#35
Time for another one of these: what happened: I discarded the 3pin, which meant that if I drew the 7pin and discarded the 6pin I would have a three way wait on 4pin/7pin/red dragon, if I drew the 5pin I could discard a 4pin to have a wait on the 7pin, also giving me an iipeikou. It sacrifices the option of drawing and using the 2pin that discarding the 6pin would give in exchange for the iipeikou possibility, and I don't think that it increases the score, so I'm thinking I discarded the wrong thing. The hand ended (as these things always do) with an exhaustive draw. I had got the 7pin and discarded the 6pin so was tenpai. The person on my left was waiting on 1pin/4pin. With all four 1pin accounted for (including the two in his hand) he was effectively only waiting on the 4pin so it's a good thing I drew the 7 rather than the 5. Ignoring ura-dora, playing into his hand would have been 2600 points. |
kuuderes_shadowAug 25, 2012 3:46 AM
There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
Aug 26, 2012 9:49 AM
#36
8-pin. Defend against player to the left in Riichi. Relatively cheap hand across. Plus, still have the option to either call on some pinzu to complete the hand, or just defend with them. |
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Oct 26, 2012 3:26 AM
#37
A wild Kyuu has appeared! 1) Throw a pon. 2) Chuck a chi. 3) Toss some food. 4) Throw a Love Ball. |
Nov 5, 2012 10:20 AM
#38
Because we haven't had one of these for a while. |
There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
Nov 5, 2012 11:57 AM
#39
Having 4 pairs. That's always a cocktease. But definitely keeping that 4-sou. Looking to drop either 5-man, 7-man, or 7-pin. IF Chii Toitsu is the desired course. IF not looking to go Chii Toitsu, but something else? Then break one of the pairs, and continue. |
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Nov 6, 2012 11:26 PM
#40
Never commit to toitoi. Assume you're going to go for toitoi, which means I would start discarding middle tiles that you wouldn't want to wait on if you reach tenpai, or when it's dangerous later on. If you draw a triplet, don't start calling yet. I would only consider toitoi if I get a 2nd triplet. 5m If you get a triplet before getting your 5th pair, keep it. So you'll have: aaa bb cc dd <- this is not good enough material for a triplet-only hand If you draw a 5th pair and one is a triplet, drop the triplet immediately, unless a single tile you have has already been discarded twice. |
Feb 12, 2013 4:29 PM
#41
Here's an interesting choice between two yaku: And apparently, I made the wrong choice: http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2013021121gm-0009-7447-173492b3&tw=1&ts=4 Tanyao + Sanshoku + Iipeiko + Dora 2 vs Tanyao + Ryanpeiko + Dora 2 NOTE: Han count is the same. Shanten count also the same. 1-shanten for either. |
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