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Poll: Jormungand Episode 4 Discussion


May 3, 2012 7:51 AM

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I had high hopes for this one but the more I see the more I'm disappointed. Visuals and the some action scenes are good but I think the rest very ordinary.

Very disappointed with the orchestra arch, Characters have too few development. For example that "artist" from orchestra ( chinatsu's mentor ) is just a wannabe artist. Art is about sophistication and there was little sophistication in his love for gun noise.

I also didn't like that little flashback we had about chinatsu's past. Usually that technique is used to make us feel empathy for the villain that is about to die, making feel us some empathy for him and making his death more tragic. It's usually supposed to show us that the villain is also a human being but in this one we just see that Chinatsu is a psycho and I got no empathy for psychos.

I think the whole no panties stuff is also a bid absurd. Provocative with no reason..

This show might look good on the surface but if you go deeper I think it's missing something.
 
May 3, 2012 9:27 AM
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I don't have much to say since I've read it already so all my hype had gone to the chapters.
HOWEVER!
Yeeeess~!!!!! Chequi next week! Woo!! But it's about Jonah's past. Don't feel like watching it. Already read it. Oh well. Will watch.

Gimmeh moar animated Valmet. Can't wait for her arc. END OF SEASON Y U NO HERE YET?!
 
May 3, 2012 10:04 AM

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I feel like this makes less sense each episode. Chinatsu was obviously so shocked by the death of her master, that she immediately chased down Koko... to chat with her?? That made no sense if you ask me. She got over it way too fast considering she was willing to chat with her like that. Much more realistic reaction would be going on a rampage ignoring the sniper. And WTF about that CIA agent showing off?? I can see MANY criminals that would want his head if he appeared in media or official papers. Even saying his nickname? And how the hell it is possible that he can't keep his cool and rages because of something that is "normal"? Seriously, what powerful arm dealers don't have contacts in police or government! That felt very stupid for a CIA agent.

Also, Koko lost some points from me in this ep. The Chinatsu hug was plain weird, she would have been much cooler to just let her fall and wtf was that thing about mortality of children? Moral lessons in anime like this? Not about something that every sane person realises and from a character that was supposed to be cool? That seriously let me down. Sorry, I don't find arms dealers complaining about mortality of whoever awesome, quite the contrary.

Aside from that, very nice episode. I liked how Chinatsu viewed Koko (medusa like) and I wodner what she told her.
Modified by HikaruIzumi, May 3, 2012 2:28 PM
 
May 3, 2012 12:29 PM

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HikaruIzumi said:


Also, Koko lost some points from me in this ep. The Chinatsu hug was plain weird, she would have been much cooler to just let her fall and wtf was that thing about mortality of children? Moral lessons in anime like this? Not about something that every sane person realises and from a character that was supposed to be cool? That seriously let me down. Sorry, I don't find arms dealers complaining about mortality of whoever awesome, quite the contrary.


That is another point, morality seems to be twisted in the name of awesomeness or "cool factor". Koko is using, exploiting and indoctrinating a child soldier, Jonah.
 
May 3, 2012 5:19 PM

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I think this one was a little slow for me, the only awesomeness was the backflip. I know this is an anime discussion but I just want to say wow the episodes are moving fast through the volumes of the manga. I just saw one myanimelist it is going to have a second season??? That is good cause i'm sure the anime is gonna air faster than viz puts out the rest of the volumes of the manga, and I am dying to know about Koko and her past.
 
May 3, 2012 5:29 PM

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33orion77 said:
I had high hopes for this one but the more I see the more I'm disappointed. Visuals and the some action scenes are good but I think the rest very ordinary.

Very disappointed with the orchestra arch, Characters have too few development. For example that "artist" from orchestra ( chinatsu's mentor ) is just a wannabe artist. Art is about sophistication and there was little sophistication in his love for gun noise.

I also didn't like that little flashback we had about chinatsu's past. Usually that technique is used to make us feel empathy for the villain that is about to die, making feel us some empathy for him and making his death more tragic. It's usually supposed to show us that the villain is also a human being but in this one we just see that Chinatsu is a psycho and I got no empathy for psychos.

I think the whole no panties stuff is also a bid absurd. Provocative with no reason..

This show might look good on the surface but if you go deeper I think it's missing something.
Umm No. Art is not about sophiscation. If anything, the only factual thing about art about is that it is an expression of one self.

Flashbacks aren't always there to provoke empathy. Many people wondered how they got together. The flashback showed that.

They also gave a reason why she wears no panties. But lemme guess, I'm going to assume it's just not good enough for your standards.

Basically, you're upset because the anime is doing things that conflict with your outlook on things. Everything made perfect sense to me. And lol at you saying the action being good. The action is the worse part about this show. It basically pushes your suspension of disbelief to the max in a anime that is so heavily rooted in realism.

HikaruIzumi said:
I feel like this makes less sense each episode. Chinatsu was obviously so shocked by the death of her master, that she immediately chased down Koko... to chat with her?? That made no sense if you ask me. She got over it way too fast considering she was willing to chat with her like that. Much more realistic reaction would be going on a rampage ignoring the sniper. And WTF about that CIA agent showing off?? I can see MANY criminals that would want his head if he appeared in media or official papers. Even saying his nickname? And how the hell it is possible that he can't keep his cool and rages because of something that is "normal"? Seriously, what powerful arm dealers don't have contacts in police or government! That felt very stupid for a CIA agent.

Also, Koko lost some points from me in this ep. The Chinatsu hug was plain weird, she would have been much cooler to just let her fall and wtf was that thing about mortality of children? Moral lessons in anime like this? Not about something that every sane person realises and from a character that was supposed to be cool? That seriously let me down. Sorry, I don't find arms dealers complaining about mortality of whoever awesome, quite the contrary.

Aside from that, very nice episode. I liked how Chinatsu viewed Koko (medusa like) and I wodner what she told her.
Do you speak Japanese? Or did you not see the subs? She went there with the intent of killing.

And sorry, contrary to what anime wants you to believe, not everyone goes into a blind rage over deaths. Some people actually choose to think. She's been portrayed thus far as the "brains" of orchestra so for her to fly into a blind rage would be out of character.

It can also be understood that Chinatsu went there to die. She said she performs better when she isn't wearing any panties. She showed up with her panties on so she knew she wasn't going to be at her very best if she really wanted to kill Koko. She probably wanted to be seen as somewhat "decent" before her death and didn't feel like her life was worth living now that her master is gone. Her predicament is very similar to that of Jonah.

And what does Jonah's have to do with Koko's morality talk? Its completely different than what Koko was going on about. The children Koko were talking about are trained to kill by force. They are taken from their parents, specifically the boys, and forced to learn how to operate weapons. Jonahs back story is a bit unclear but it appears he learned to use a weapon to defend himself, but more importantly he is working for Koko by choice.

His parents are dead and he doesn't really have anything else other than his hatred for weapons. Jonahs is going to kill those with weapons regardless of whether he's with Koko or not. If I was Koko I would have brought him along as well.

For all this talk about this show not being deep, maybe you aren't thinking deep enough or maybe lacking the background to understand why the intellectual discussion are so on the mark. It doesn't surprise me that there is rarely any discussion about the intellectual side of Jormungand. It flies over the head of most of the show's target audience.

Edit: Oh, and about the CIA thing, he was mad because you don't expect double dealing. When an agent goes somewhere, it assume that they're going to have the full cooperation of who's ever in charge there. You can't just show up somewhere and demand information just because you're CIA. So again, the CIA obviously has ties with them so him expecting them to cooperate with the "good guys" over a wanted arms dealer isn't farfetch'd.
Modified by ViciousOne, May 3, 2012 5:54 PM
 
May 3, 2012 6:52 PM

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Although Chinatsu was an interesting character, I didn't really care that she died, but I at some point I actually thought she might join them.

I seriously love Koko and Jonah interactions.

Next episode we see Jonah crying..hoping its a good episode. This child has more emotions than I thought he did, which is not bad at all.

Like everyone else, I want to know what Koko told her, if it wasn't said out loud, then it may be, because we haven't really heard her real reason.
I am a sucker for romance!!!!
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May 3, 2012 8:43 PM

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ViciousOne said:

Umm No. Art is not about sophiscation. If anything, the only factual thing about art about is that it is an expression of one self.

Flashbacks aren't always there to provoke empathy. Many people wondered how they got together. The flashback showed that.

You are right when you say that art is an expression of one self but it is expressed through a certain medium (painting, sculpture etc... ) I think that sophistication is what is making difference between a children's drawing and a painting of Picasso. When you are talking about the art of wine-making or the art of war, it's all about sophistication otherwise you can just fart and call it art.

The flashback are there so you can learn more about a character so that you can recognize and share feelings that are being experienced by that character and that is very close to the definition of empathy. You say that some people were wondering about her past, I wonder much more about how Koko got her crew and about Koko's past than some villain that appear in the show for 2 ep.

BTW I said some action scene are good not all of them. I agree with you about the overall action but I think some scene were nice.
ViciousOne said:

Basically, you're upset because the anime is doing things that conflict with your outlook on things

You might be right about that but up to now I just see an anime that make the apology of violence as there is no moral conflict. Well the only one that has some moral issue is Jonah but all we get is that Jonah is wrong to have those conflicts. When I see that I can't help but to think about groups like Blackwater that thinks they are above the law. Maybe you think that this is a good thing but I can't and reading your comments one can wonder if you have some ethical sense.
ViciousOne said:

If I was Koko I would have brought him along as well.

I would have put him in a foster family so that he can experience what normal children are supposed to experience like going to school and play baseball instead of killing people. Koko is just using him, nothing more nothing less. If they teach him math it's because it's useful for the job.
ViciousOne said:

For all this talk about this show not being deep, maybe you aren't thinking deep enough or maybe lacking the background to understand why the intellectual discussion are so on the mark. It doesn't surprise me that there is rarely any discussion about the intellectual side of Jormungand. It flies over the head of most of the show's target audience.

Then please enlighten us with your intellect and show us the intellectual side of Jormungand. Saying things like we are too dumb to understand doesn't prove anything
 
May 3, 2012 10:55 PM

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The soundtrack is just amazing.
 
May 4, 2012 2:10 AM

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Nice episode, the shark teeth guy died, I was happy with that.
I expected the crazy one to join Koko's army, unfortunately didn't happen.
The American guy thinks he's cool, he'll probably be the next enemy.
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page.
 
May 4, 2012 3:49 AM

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^
haha he is a CIA, i don't think he will be a bad guy, but he will be a "comic relief" throughout the episode.
but I do agree that he look like a bad guy lol.
33orion77 said:
ViciousOne said:

For all this talk about this show not being deep, maybe you aren't thinking deep enough or maybe lacking the background to understand why the intellectual discussion are so on the mark. It doesn't surprise me that there is rarely any discussion about the intellectual side of Jormungand. It flies over the head of most of the show's target audience.

Then please enlighten us with your intellect and show us the intellectual side of Jormungand. Saying things like we are too dumb to understand doesn't prove anything

there is a part that really astound me during the show.
For example the part that Nelson immediately ask Lutz to snipe the weapon when Lutz is to chicken to kill Chinatsu. His fast decision could had save his teammate.
Lehm also did ask them to retreat since he knows that Lutz won't be able to kill Chinatsu. I am impress at Lehm for understanding the squad's thought and emotion because small mistake can cost human live .
I know this small matter may not be big deal for you guys, but it is enough for me to say "wow they are pro ". Well, Each audience have their own way to think how a show is epically presented =P
 
May 4, 2012 6:26 AM

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Jormungand is like a Michael Bay anime. I don't even know what possesses me to keep on watching it every week.
 
May 4, 2012 9:44 PM

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That was impressive. Wasn't too into the whole gun fight theme for this series personally, never have been into that kind of action, but the drama aspect was good. I still like the action too, that's saying something considering I have never been into shooting, but I don't love it quite yet so this is a good way to offset things and keep my interest.
 
May 5, 2012 7:56 AM

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Watching the last sniping scene again, I noticed that there were four bangs. The producers may have intended like this: two bangs were for flipping the handgun and penetration of Chinatsu's body and the rest two bangs were gunfire with a delay. If Jonah hit her handgun, she should have heard only three bangs.

It seems Lehm (the sniper) used M24 SWS from the looking of the rifle.
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/Firearms/Sniper%20Rifles/M24.aspx

Although I thought rifles have low rate of fire in general, following site says it has rate of fire of 20 rpm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System
This means you need only(!?) 3 seconds for the next shot. (Really? Anyway I think it is impossible to snipe a target in such a rate with bolt-action.)

Well then, why he needed two shots? The possible explanation is he intended to neutralize enemy weapon first to reduce the risk and finish comes next. But if I were he who has such a skill, I would shoot her head: one shot one kill.

And I prefer the first twisted idea:
 
May 5, 2012 2:29 PM

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R.I.P Chinatsu ;_;
 
May 5, 2012 10:18 PM

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When Koko caught a glimpse of Chinatsu's cooch she seemed mesmerized by it lol. Also sad she was killed. she would have been a perfect addition to Koko's harem team. The way her master died took me by surprise. He seemed like the type of S.O.B who has a million lives, so for him to be taken out so swiftly was very unexpected.
 
May 6, 2012 9:42 PM

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Love the suspense and action so far!
 
May 7, 2012 12:49 AM

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Darn, just when I find another lovable crazy chick she gets killed off. The episode was executed well, loved every moment of it 5/5.
 
May 7, 2012 11:10 AM

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Loved it.
xxx
 
May 7, 2012 7:23 PM

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Best episode so far. Too bad Chinatsu will killed off.
 
May 7, 2012 10:14 PM

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Aww damn it Chinatsu stuck with her pride and got herself killed. :( Wanted her to join Koko so badly since I actually liked her character. That whole no panties thing about her made this even more entertaining and now that's gone.
 
May 8, 2012 10:33 PM

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Chinatsu is dead. . . It's so great!
 
May 9, 2012 2:00 AM

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Damnit, Chinatsu. I was just beginning to like her, and then she dies.
 
May 18, 2012 7:58 PM

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Hmmm...I wonder why Commando followed a guy who killed her parents (maybe she was forced to)?

I'd like to know what Koko said to Commando.
 
May 19, 2012 1:46 PM

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Best episode so far
tfw no gf
tfw i keep getting the banhammer on here
tfw Koleare keeps banning me every other day
tfw I'm misunderstood by le mod
 
Jun 22, 2012 7:03 AM

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lol Koko the thing you wanted to know the most is why Chinatsu doesn't wear underwear...I am sad though I wanted her to join the team!
 
Jun 29, 2012 2:17 AM

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There's some beautiful scenery in Jormungand this episode.
 
Jul 3, 2012 11:32 AM

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was the great soundtrack (song as in opera) when Chinatsu was dying ♥
 
Jul 4, 2012 5:16 PM

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I love how they killed them and I actually really liked Orchestra and Chinatsu was very weird. I mean she shoots better commando xDDD

 
Aug 22, 2012 2:17 PM

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I am continually fascinated by Koko. This show rocks! I have been wanting to find something exactly like this forever.

Guess I am a bit late to the party lol...that is what happens when you take a break from anime I guess...
 
Sep 19, 2012 6:54 AM

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not wearing panties = increase of accuracy
 
Oct 3, 2012 2:12 AM

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The guy's death was anticlimatic...after the gunfight last episode. Also Koko is truly loco.

And also pantsu.
 
Oct 18, 2012 3:54 PM

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Damn, I wish Chinatsu had joined the team. It would've made for an interesting change in the team dynamics!
 
Nov 8, 2012 6:17 AM

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aww she died.. :(
 
Dec 21, 2012 9:04 PM

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Frickin loved the snipers!!!
This anime is sooo good!
 
Jan 13, 2013 9:33 PM

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They sure got rid of them quick O_O. I thought they were going to be the villains of this anime haha.

Anyways, really good episode! :)
 
Apr 13, 2013 3:32 PM

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Aww awesome screenshots again, I think it will be like this all the way, so I might not even take any :(. I will have though, want to post some I posted already on episode discussions on my profile.

About the episode, love the snipers, and loved the red haired girl too :(, sad that Koko couldn't convince her to join.
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Apr 22, 2013 6:34 PM

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Great episode.
That beginning episode flashback was quite harsh. Thank god someone killed him.
So that's why she don't have panties on lol.Does someone got a pic for when she doing a backflip? Was kind of sad that she died but she kind of hateful when she gets too crazy when her master died.
Hmm Johan foreshadowing in the next episode interesting.
The rest of the man needs more developed. Don't know if i liked them or hate them.
Koko is great.
5/5
 
Jun 22, 2013 12:24 AM

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gg chinatsu I wanted to u more without ur panties :)
 
Jan 15, 2014 10:39 PM

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bye Chinatsu you crazy bitch.. you will not be missed..

Jonah is one skilled bodyguard
Your waifu doesn't love you.
 
Mar 1, 2014 9:57 AM

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the gun fight between the 2 cars at that distance and no one got hit!?
 
Apr 14, 2014 8:04 PM

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Wow, wow ... that was a really good episode O_O Again, ruined by random pixelations and such ... dunno if it's my player or my files or what. I'm gonna have to check it because it's really ruining this series >_<
Interesting how Chinatsu met her master eh ... I was expecting to see more of her "past" tbh :O Surprised the snipers shot him dead ... wow D:
Koko's got connections eh ... this "Scarecrow" ain't got nothing on her :P Mention of her father too ... then a nice walk and talk with Jonah. Really loving their relationship! :P
Chinatsu ends up coming for her again ... and we get the reason she doesn't wear panties lol. I mean, Koko DID warn her she'd die if she aimed at her ... and, well, she did. At least she died looking up at the sky like her Master said to? (I don't even remember his name lol.) Also yeah, wow, that last shot at Koko ... she does look crazy there XD
ED was pretty good too, fit the mood ... calming, but "different"? Lol. Looks like we get a little of Jonah's past next episode, maybe? :O
 
Oct 27, 2014 4:23 PM

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Dang, that's one heck of a case of Stockholm,..

Misaola said:
was the great soundtrack (song as in opera) when Chinatsu was dying ♥


Vissi d'Arte from Tosca, by Puccini:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OIExoUb8jk

Paul said:
Going commando makes her aim better = best logic ever.


Actually, this made more sense to me than it should. Ever tried doing martial arts or shooting at the range with a pair of undies that's slighty too tight or creeping up your buttcrack? Yeah,..
Modified by Laionidas, Oct 27, 2014 4:53 PM
 
Nov 24, 2014 6:39 PM

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I was hoping that Chinatsu would join them but unfortunately things didn't end well with her. I'm really interested into why Koko became an weapons dealer. Looks like something really messed up happened with her.

Great episode.
 
Jan 9, 2015 8:59 PM

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I didint expect ol shark teeth to bite it so early. Though I will say I cant feel bad for chinatsu though. She ended up joining the dude who killed her parents and even liking him. So shes pretty freaking dumb well at least we got an ass shot from her. Looks like we also got another new character scarecrow the cia dick.Also surprised we got to see koko actually scared for a second. Guess she feels defenceless without her team. I already can tell they are going to tell us that answer wayyyy down the line. Pretty good episode though surprised noone got shot during car chase.
 
Jan 21, 2015 6:57 AM

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Coldbid said:
the gun fight between the 2 cars at that distance and no one got hit!?


LOL - yeah, that's probably why this show reminds me of Black Lagoon so much. Thousands of bullets sprayed from a few feet away and no one gets hit. Suuuuuuuuuuure.
 
Mar 14, 2015 4:02 PM

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Bloody censors. Always ruining the good parts (oh and I'm talking about the singer and sharkman's death not whatever you were thinking of)

The soundtrack at the end was great though.
 
Sep 2, 2015 7:38 AM

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That takes care of those two... that ending sure was impressive though! Let's see what's next!
 
Nov 19, 2015 2:32 PM

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R.I.P. Commando Girl :(


 
Dec 11, 2015 1:31 AM

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I did not like Chinatsu or the Orchestra guy. I'm glad they're both dead.
 
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