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Strongest Servant? *spoilers*
MyAnimeList.net Forum »» Anime Discussion »» Series Discussion »» Fate/Zero 2nd Season »» Strongest Servant? *spoilers*

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View Poll Results: Who is the strongest servant in Fate-verse?
Saber (Arturia)
 
86 15.30%
Zero Archer (Gilgamesh)
 
323 57.47%
Zero Lancer (Diarmuid)
 
6 1.07%
Zero Rider (Iskander)
 
26 4.63%
Zero Berserker
 
36 6.41%
Zero Caster (Gilles de Rais)
 
6 1.07%
Zero Assassin (Hassan-i Sabbah)
 
2 0.36%
FSN Archer
 
49 8.72%
FSN Lancer (Cu Chulainn)
 
4 0.71%
FSN Rider
 
0.00%
FSN Berserker (Heracles)
 
20 3.56%
FSN Caster
 
0.00%
FSN Assassin (Sasaki Kojirou)
 
1 0.18%
FSN True Assassin
 
0.00%
FHA Avenger
 
3 0.53%
Voters: 562

05-04-12, 5:03 PM

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well yeah that's what Berserkers(in any story) are supposed to do that and thats why I like them.

"Engrish" I loled so hard
 
05-04-12, 6:41 PM

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Diarmudo gets a vote-o!
He's clearly not the strongest servant, but I'm happy about this since he's a boss.

ssjokg said:
well yeah that's what Berserkers(in any story) are supposed to do that and thats why I like them.

"Engrish" I loled so hard

Yup yup.
 
05-09-12, 12:59 AM

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ataraxial said:
Pretty much the definition of PIS. What should've logically happened was for him to immediately attack Gil, but no, we had to hear everyone else be all like, "OMG I can't read his status!11one" first.

As a Berserker, it would make sense for him to immediately attack if Archer suddenly got down on his knees and started speaking Engrish.


Sorry to kickstart a topic that seems all but queitened down by this point, but I was actually wondering what we were basing the need for Archer to suddenly get down on one knee in order to pray for UBW arose from, as I don't remember it being an actual NECESSITY in the Visual Novel, and we all know the FSN's anime is so far up it's own rear that it's almost laughable. In the VN, I can quite distinctly remember Archer being able to say seperate parts of the Prayer whilst doing something else entirely, which was also present in the anime when I think about it B|

It's also an interesting thing to point out that Shirou, a much younger, far less experienced, and far less powerful version of Archer, was capable of buliding up his own Rho Aias, which I need to clarify, he would've garnered for himself from "fusing" with Archer's memories during their conflict, as arose most of the weapons he had in UBW at the time of activation VS Gil, whilst still being able to recite each part of the chant seperately. In fact, I'm relatively unaware as to why Archer couldn't be smart about setting up UBW, and using a bait to bring a Servant within range of his boundaries, whilst reciting seperate parts of the chant whilst waiting for them. Probably the only Servants who have the potential to completely avoid this are servants who are aware of his trap, or else, people with a far greater range then Archer.

Also, on a side note, wouldn't Archer have NLBW from his experiences in the past, as Shirou, where he participated in the same Holy Grail War against Berserker? UBW isn't like a human mind, but rather, a database. Or at least, that's how we're introduced to it, so I'll stick to that. Once it's on record, it should be within reason for it to stay on record. And as a result of Shirou essentially being a sword, I'm pretty sure he instantly analyzes any close range weaponry he sees for future replication.

I'll agree with you with Berserker's lack of charging being nothing more than PIS, PIS that wasn't even necessary, as ultimately, the Masters all could've gone into "OMFG, HAXORS" mode later on, AFTER THE BATTLE.

Now, I may have missed something in what I saw of UBW in the Visual Novel, or even on the Wiki, and that's really the only reason I'm making a comment because if I did, I can't find it.

Ultimately though, I will have to say that in raw power, Gilgamesh EASILY exceeds almost any other heroic spirit that could ever be summoned, minus Enkidu himself. The main fault of Gilgamesh is a fault that was present in himself in the mythologies, where he displays great arrogance, and treats the world as his, as he does in Fate. Otherwise, I really don't feel like reciting what MANY people have said before me. Surely, there are people who are perfectly capable of countering him (Saber w/ Avalon, EMIYA, Shirou, Lancelot) there may even be hundreds, but no one can deny the raw power of having what is equivalant to hundreds to millions of small bombs being launched at you as if out of a gattling gun. Nor can anyone deny the power to tear the dimensions athunder with Enuma Elish.
 
05-09-12, 1:13 AM

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Denithan said:
ataraxial said:
Pretty much the definition of PIS. What should've logically happened was for him to immediately attack Gil, but no, we had to hear everyone else be all like, "OMG I can't read his status!11one" first.

As a Berserker, it would make sense for him to immediately attack if Archer suddenly got down on his knees and started speaking Engrish.


Sorry to kickstart a topic that seems all but queitened down by this point, but I was actually wondering what we were basing the need for Archer to suddenly get down on one knee in order to pray for UBW arose from, as I don't remember it being an actual NECESSITY in the Visual Novel, and we all know the FSN's anime is so far up it's own rear that it's almost laughable. In the VN, I can quite distinctly remember Archer being able to say seperate parts of the Prayer whilst doing something else entirely, which was also present in the anime when I think about it B|

It's also an interesting thing to point out that Shirou, a much younger, far less experienced, and far less powerful version of Archer, was capable of buliding up his own Rho Aias, which I need to clarify, he would've garnered for himself from "fusing" with Archer's memories during their conflict, as arose most of the weapons he had in UBW at the time of activation VS Gil, whilst still being able to recite each part of the chant seperately. In fact, I'm relatively unaware as to why Archer couldn't be smart about setting up UBW, and using a bait to bring a Servant within range of his boundaries, whilst reciting seperate parts of the chant whilst waiting for them. Probably the only Servants who have the potential to completely avoid this are servants who are aware of his trap, or else, people with a far greater range then Archer.

Also, on a side note, wouldn't Archer have NLBW from his experiences in the past, as Shirou, where he participated in the same Holy Grail War against Berserker? UBW isn't like a human mind, but rather, a database. Or at least, that's how we're introduced to it, so I'll stick to that. Once it's on record, it should be within reason for it to stay on record. And as a result of Shirou essentially being a sword, I'm pretty sure he instantly analyzes any close range weaponry he sees for future replication.

I'll agree with you with Berserker's lack of charging being nothing more than PIS, PIS that wasn't even necessary, as ultimately, the Masters all could've gone into "OMFG, HAXORS" mode later on, AFTER THE BATTLE.

Now, I may have missed something in what I saw of UBW in the Visual Novel, or even on the Wiki, and that's really the only reason I'm making a comment because if I did, I can't find it.

Ultimately though, I will have to say that in raw power, Gilgamesh EASILY exceeds almost any other heroic spirit that could ever be summoned, minus Enkidu himself. The main fault of Gilgamesh is a fault that was present in himself in the mythologies, where he displays great arrogance, and treats the world as his, as he does in Fate. Otherwise, I really don't feel like reciting what MANY people have said before me. Surely, there are people who are perfectly capable of countering him (Saber w/ Avalon, EMIYA, Shirou, Lancelot) there may even be hundreds, but no one can deny the raw power of having what is equivalant to hundreds to millions of small bombs being launched at you as if out of a gattling gun. Nor can anyone deny the power to tear the dimensions athunder with Enuma Elish.


I dont think that EMIYA needs to go on his knees for the chant but I think some level of concentration is needed and having Berserker Lancelot attacking you doesnt help much...

Shirou never becomes the Heroic Spirit EMIYA that we see in the VN.Especially in Heaven's Feel where he discards his ideals to save Sakura.In Fate and UBW he has some chances to be hero in the future but definitely not EMIYA.
 
05-09-12, 1:27 AM

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ssjokg said:
I dont think that EMIYA needs to go on his knees for the chant but I think some level of concentration is needed and having Berserker Lancelot attacking you doesnt help much...

Shirou never becomes the Heroic Spirit EMIYA that we see in the VN.Especially in Heaven's Feel where he discards his ideals to save Sakura.In Fate and UBW he has some chances to be hero in the future but definitely not EMIYA.


I'll agree with the Berserker Lancelot asset, but we do know that even with Berserker baring down on him in Close Quarters, Archer was capable enough to kill him up to 6 times, though, if this involved UBW or not is still not known.

And I know Shirou won't evolve into the Heroic Spirit EMIYA, Nasu addressed in Complete Material III that in none of the Routes would Shirou become the Heroic Spirit EMIYA, however, the possibility still remained in all three (In Heaven's Feel, they would if he ever took back up his old ideals), although, it's less than a 1% chance.

However, it's also known that EMIYA, the Heroic Spirit, did live through the Grail War in a way akin to how Shirou did in the Stay Route. This is somewhat present by the fact that he still had Rin's amulet, all those years later, meaning that his death at the hands of Lancer certainly did occur, and with Lancer's determination to finish a job, it's quite likely that he still became the Master of Saber. He was also fully aware of Avalon being in Shirou, something that Shirou only learnt himself in the Stay route. It's also said in Complete Material III that Shirou dreamed of Excalibur prior to the Holy Grail War as it had already been decided that he would become the master of Saber, and as such, magical energy began to course through Avalon itself. Which all leads to EMIYA having participated in the same war Shirou himself did, although, the Archer of his war was a different entity. This indicates that unless Gilgamesh outright killed Berserker in the original timeline, then Archer should have witnessed the Axe-Sword version of Nine-Lives, giving birth to NLBW.
 
05-09-12, 7:37 AM

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Technically he has to actively do the first step to tracing which is where he learns the blueprints of the weapons and skills, something I doubt a Shirou without aid of Archer would have really thought about. Shirou tends to store almost all weapons automatically because he has an automatic tendency to try and trace everything he faces.

That said, don't really think about it much, just the most important part is that Archer is not a face to face warrior. He himself said it "I'm not a swordsman". He's an strategic magician and unorthodox archer who specializes in always leading the battle and looking for good range. Lancelot would own him in short range battle yeah, the little detail is, what if he can't get in close range. Forcing Archer into an hypothetic "he has to be close range" situation is just pointless because he doesn't win by sheer skill or strength but by leading the battle his way.

 
05-09-12, 8:21 AM

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Leon-Gun said:
Technically he has to actively do the first step to tracing which is where he learns the blueprints of the weapons and skills, something I doubt a Shirou without aid of Archer would have really thought about. Shirou tends to store almost all weapons automatically because he has an automatic tendency to try and trace everything he faces.

That said, don't really think about it much, just the most important part is that Archer is not a face to face warrior. He himself said it "I'm not a swordsman". He's an strategic magician and unorthodox archer who specializes in always leading the battle and looking for good range. Lancelot would own him in short range battle yeah, the little detail is, what if he can't get in close range. Forcing Archer into an hypothetic "he has to be close range" situation is just pointless because he doesn't win by sheer skill or strength but by leading the battle his way.

Truth.
It's kind of hard to figure out how to make a battle "fair" though, if we're pitting Servants against each other to decide which one is stronger. I'm not saying that "he has to be close range," but they have to somehow start in a position whether neither have an automatic upper hand. In terms of realism, most Grail War battles start at close range, so that should also be taken into consideration.
 
05-09-12, 8:49 AM

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ataraxial said:
Truth.
It's kind of hard to figure out how to make a battle "fair" though, if we're pitting Servants against each other to decide which one is stronger. I'm not saying that "he has to be close range," but they have to somehow start in a position whether neither have an automatic upper hand. In terms of realism, most Grail War battles start at close range, so that should also be taken into consideration.


To be honest, in the specific case of these two, I'd probably say that UBW is a half-fair fighting ground on the point that it infinitely creates swords for Archer to use, of course, assuming that Lancelot would then be capable of utilizing the Projections as his own Phantasms, in which case, he'd bypass the penalties placed on them by being Projections, and probably make them fully capable of matching their originals. Otherwise, it puts things one-sidedly in Archer's favor.

If so, then it's hard to gauge which of the two would win in such a circumstance. Archer could attempt raining blades on him, but we'd get a GoB repeat, and we can say that Lancelot would have the edge on account of being the superior close range fighter, but then we also need to take into account the halved prana cost on Archer, the lack of penalties, and his ability to either summon swords, or else shoot swords, meaning he could quite possibly shoot swords from any number of different directions at once, making it superior to GoB in that instance. Then the question is, could Lance destroy projectiles from every direction at once, and beyond that, can UBW even do such?

Either way, if we're looking in terms of pure power, Archer dwindles behind most of the other servants we know of, and Lancelot is definetly higher up on the list than people seem to credit him. Lancelot had a few penalties placed on him, and was not at all capable of fighting at full power in Fate/Zero. He only ultimately lost as a result of causing Kariya to use up all his prana at the last second, so that alone indicates his limitations. Still die against Heracles though... That's just a BS match up for Lancey xD

Otherwise, on account of his NP, Alexander can probably be considered a close second to Gil. Given the right circumstance, where the Reality Marble was completed before Gil had brought out Ea, and started charging Enuma Elish, it's questionable if he'd even have time to defend himself.

So, in terms of pure power, definetly Gil or Alexander, with Hercules and Lancelot following behind. In terms of pure skill, we're probably looking at FZ Assassin and EMIYA (on account of their versatilities), Lancers from both Generations, on account of not heavily relying on their NP's (especially in FZ's case) Sasaki, as he achieved Saber's level through pure skill, not gifts, or abilities, of any sort. Then we also have to look at "Ability", where you'd get Gil, Saber, Medea and the others arising in the top area. It really depends on how you mean the "Strongest Servant", as they all are present with one asset or another that would give them an edge over the other Servants (Yes, even Zero Caster had Prelati's Spellbook, which, when coupled with the right master combination, is probably lethal). Especially since in the point of making an even Playing Field, we'd have to assume their using Masters of neigh identical level, so as to not give an unfair advantage.

Really though, if you're looking for "fairest" scenarios, we're probably looking at areas where both servants involved have an advantage granted to them naturally. Most probably, Gil would win in most of these situations if he wasn't being an idiotic prick.
 
05-09-12, 9:20 AM

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Denithan said:
ataraxial said:
Truth.
It's kind of hard to figure out how to make a battle "fair" though, if we're pitting Servants against each other to decide which one is stronger. I'm not saying that "he has to be close range," but they have to somehow start in a position whether neither have an automatic upper hand. In terms of realism, most Grail War battles start at close range, so that should also be taken into consideration.


To be honest, in the specific case of these two, I'd probably say that UBW is a half-fair fighting ground on the point that it infinitely creates swords for Archer to use, of course, assuming that Lancelot would then be capable of utilizing the Projections as his own Phantasms, in which case, he'd bypass the penalties placed on them by being Projections, and probably make them fully capable of matching their originals. Otherwise, it puts things one-sidedly in Archer's favor.

If so, then it's hard to gauge which of the two would win in such a circumstance. Archer could attempt raining blades on him, but we'd get a GoB repeat, and we can say that Lancelot would have the edge on account of being the superior close range fighter, but then we also need to take into account the halved prana cost on Archer, the lack of penalties, and his ability to either summon swords, or else shoot swords, meaning he could quite possibly shoot swords from any number of different directions at once, making it superior to GoB in that instance. Then the question is, could Lance destroy projectiles from every direction at once, and beyond that, can UBW even do such?

Either way, if we're looking in terms of pure power, Archer dwindles behind most of the other servants we know of, and Lancelot is definetly higher up on the list than people seem to credit him. Lancelot had a few penalties placed on him, and was not at all capable of fighting at full power in Fate/Zero. He only ultimately lost as a result of causing Kariya to use up all his prana at the last second, so that alone indicates his limitations. Still die against Heracles though... That's just a BS match up for Lancey xD

Otherwise, on account of his NP, Alexander can probably be considered a close second to Gil. Given the right circumstance, where the Reality Marble was completed before Gil had brought out Ea, and started charging Enuma Elish, it's questionable if he'd even have time to defend himself.

So, in terms of pure power, definetly Gil or Alexander, with Hercules and Lancelot following behind. In terms of pure skill, we're probably looking at FZ Assassin and EMIYA (on account of their versatilities), Lancers from both Generations, on account of not heavily relying on their NP's (especially in FZ's case) Sasaki, as he achieved Saber's level through pure skill, not gifts, or abilities, of any sort. Then we also have to look at "Ability", where you'd get Gil, Saber, Medea and the others arising in the top area. It really depends on how you mean the "Strongest Servant", as they all are present with one asset or another that would give them an edge over the other Servants (Yes, even Zero Caster had Prelati's Spellbook, which, when coupled with the right master combination, is probably lethal). Especially since in the point of making an even Playing Field, we'd have to assume their using Masters of neigh identical level, so as to not give an unfair advantage.

Really though, if you're looking for "fairest" scenarios, we're probably looking at areas where both servants involved have an advantage granted to them naturally. Most probably, Gil would win in most of these situations if he wasn't being an idiotic prick.


KoH wont work on projections so trying to grab them will result in no NPs and being wide open
lancelot couldnt even counter when Gil threw 16 1 by 1 against him so theres no way he can tank UBW spam
lancelot always had enough prana before kariya died and the berserker class cant hold back so he was always fighting at his full power


and really archer is not weak in close combat
he friggin held off rin saber long enough to open UBW
he didnt get stomped against saber lancer assassin and berserker
also sparks liner high anyone? (not archer but shirou used archer's technique)

"neither have automatic upper hand"
lancelot gets an immediate upper hand when you pit him off right away in a melee fight with archer
not to mention someone decided that archer doesnt get a part of his database...really this is as fair as throwing saber 4km away from archer with his bow and hrunting in hand...might as well ignore classes
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
05-09-12, 9:38 AM

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BloodRequiem said:
KoH wont work on projections so trying to grab them will result in no NPs and being wide open
lancelot couldnt even counter when Gil threw 16 1 by 1 against him so theres no way he can tank UBW spam
lancelot always had enough prana before kariya died and the berserker class cant hold back so he was always fighting at his full power


and really archer is not weak in close combat
he friggin held off rin saber long enough to open UBW
he didnt get stomped against saber lancer assassin and berserker
also sparks liner high anyone? (not archer but shirou used archer's technique)

"neither have automatic upper hand"
lancelot gets an immediate upper hand when you pit him off right away in a melee fight with archer
not to mention someone decided that archer doesnt get a part of his database...really this is as fair as throwing saber 4km away from archer with his bow and hrunting in hand...might as well ignore classes


I did kind of outline that I was unsure as to if Lancelot would be capable of KoH'ing a Projection within UBW, as the Reality Marble does shift the rules of reality in the favor of his projections, as opposed to leaving them as "things that should not exist" in our world. Ultimately though, I'm just unsure, so I'll take your word for that one.

Otherwise, I don't think anyone has said Archer is weak in Close Combat O-o I said in pure power, he's lacking compared to some of the others, unless we look strictly at his Broken Phantasms, which are kinda only applicable from a range to start with. There are a long list of reasons why Archer is more than capable of defending himself in close quarters, and I did kind of point out that Archer was capable of defending himself in Close Quarters with Hercules, and still managed to kill him 6 times in the Stay Route, which took place inside the Einzbern Mansion, which DEFINETLY was not an ideal situation for him to fight in, even in Close Quarters.

Also, neither having an automatic upper hand could only be applied in a situation where the both are given a default advantage. If Lancelot was capable of KoH'ing UBW's projections, it's quite likely that it'd result in a mutual advantage, unless Archer was able to shoot him from all angles, and I don't think we've ever seen him do such, so we can't exactly be sure, at least while staying to what we KNOW, that he can do so.

Otherwise, I'm just going to point out the difference between "Fighting at full power" and "Not having limitations". Otherwise, I suppose you do have a strong point. In pure power though, no one can deny that Lancelot was definetly further up there, and were he summoned under the Saber class, would undoubtedly be more than capable of matching any of the other servants we've seen, just as Hercules would be stronger as an Archer class, as opposed to a Berserker Class.

And I need to ask, I'm going to guess the database comment was in respect to NLBW?
 
05-09-12, 9:52 AM

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Denithan said:
BloodRequiem said:
KoH wont work on projections so trying to grab them will result in no NPs and being wide open
lancelot couldnt even counter when Gil threw 16 1 by 1 against him so theres no way he can tank UBW spam
lancelot always had enough prana before kariya died and the berserker class cant hold back so he was always fighting at his full power


and really archer is not weak in close combat
he friggin held off rin saber long enough to open UBW
he didnt get stomped against saber lancer assassin and berserker
also sparks liner high anyone? (not archer but shirou used archer's technique)

"neither have automatic upper hand"
lancelot gets an immediate upper hand when you pit him off right away in a melee fight with archer
not to mention someone decided that archer doesnt get a part of his database...really this is as fair as throwing saber 4km away from archer with his bow and hrunting in hand...might as well ignore classes


I did kind of outline that I was unsure as to if Lancelot would be capable of KoH'ing a Projection within UBW, as the Reality Marble does shift the rules of reality in the favor of his projections, as opposed to leaving them as "things that should not exist" in our world. Ultimately though, I'm just unsure, so I'll take your word for that one.

Otherwise, I don't think anyone has said Archer is weak in Close Combat O-o I said in pure power, he's lacking compared to some of the others, unless we look strictly at his Broken Phantasms, which are kinda only applicable from a range to start with. There are a long list of reasons why Archer is more than capable of defending himself in close quarters, and I did kind of point out that Archer was capable of defending himself in Close Quarters with Hercules, and still managed to kill him 6 times in the Stay Route, which took place inside the Einzbern Mansion, which DEFINETLY was not an ideal situation for him to fight in, even in Close Quarters.

Also, neither having an automatic upper hand could only be applied in a situation where the both are given a default advantage. If Lancelot was capable of KoH'ing UBW's projections, it's quite likely that it'd result in a mutual advantage, unless Archer was able to shoot him from all angles, and I don't think we've ever seen him do such, so we can't exactly be sure, at least while staying to what we KNOW, that he can do so.

Otherwise, I'm just going to point out the difference between "Fighting at full power" and "Not having limitations". Otherwise, I suppose you do have a strong point. In pure power though, no one can deny that Lancelot was definetly further up there, and were he summoned under the Saber class, would undoubtedly be more than capable of matching any of the other servants we've seen, just as Hercules would be stronger as an Archer class, as opposed to a Berserker Class.

And I need to ask, I'm going to guess the database comment was in respect to NLBW?


NLBW, gae bolg, monohosizao (depends on whether or not tsubame gaeshi comes with the sword or its kojirou's personal skill- im leaning on the personal skill side), rule breaker

close quarters thing is to people who think archer's skills are Gil level and that he would get stomped in melee
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
05-09-12, 1:04 PM

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Tsubame Gaeshi is not a skill of the sword itself (Kojirou has no Noble Phantasm) but of Sasaki Kojirou himself. The sword has no skills attached to it although if he'd become a Heroic Spirit it would have acquired it. At the very least, that's the "Word of God".

 
05-09-12, 1:18 PM

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Leon-Gun said:
Tsubame Gaeshi is not a skill of the sword itself (Kojirou has no Noble Phantasm) but of Sasaki Kojirou himself. The sword has no skills attached to it although if he'd become a Heroic Spirit it would have acquired it. At the very least, that's the "Word of God".


yeh thats y i dont think archer could use tsubamegaeshi even if he traces monohoshizao...
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
05-14-12, 9:55 PM

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The strongest servant is Zero Berserker .. ( he has only one weakness || his master -Kariya- || ) so .. =(

But ..

The best servant overall is Gilgamesh ..


 
05-15-12, 12:51 AM

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ProofDarK said:
The strongest servant is Zero Berserker .. ( he has only one weakness || his master -Kariya- || ) so .. =(

But ..

The best servant overall is Gilgamesh ..


i like how you conveniently ignored a large chunk of this discussion
btw kariya argument is invalid since he was always providing berserker with enough prana
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
05-15-12, 3:04 AM

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BloodRequiem said:
ProofDarK said:
The strongest servant is Zero Berserker .. ( he has only one weakness || his master -Kariya- || ) so .. =(

But ..

The best servant overall is Gilgamesh ..


i like how you conveniently ignored a large chunk of this discussion
btw kariya argument is invalid since he was always providing berserker with enough prana


Yeah the Saber vs Zero Berserker end must be the biggest plotarmor Saber ever had.Come on his mana ended right before the final strike?
Modified by ssjokg, 05-15-12, 3:10 AM
 
05-15-12, 4:24 AM

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I dont consider UBR the true route. nor Heaven´s feel. sorry. To me is FSN and that´s it.
Gil might have enough derp moments but in FZ he showed enough intelligence to join to the strongest master and plot against his own first master, waiting to know all his enemies and saving himself by gathering precious info. Besides judging FSN,


So i still keep my opinion that Gil is not only the strongest, as well the smartest. If he didnt have that ridiculous obsession for


to me wining a war depends mostly on intelligence. i really dont think much of NPs and stats, because even the strongest of all could be eliminated if he was dumb.
and about masters, the same. If Kiritsugu had the weakest servant, judging by his intelligence he would have great amounts of chances to win.

p.s- oh and Archer from FSN is obviously a Gil fan, otherwise he wouldnt wear his hair up and would not replicate thousands of....swords. Seems like a disguised Gil fan to me.
Modified by Orulyon, 05-15-12, 4:37 AM
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05-15-12, 4:36 AM

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Orulyon said:
oh and Archer from FSN is obviously a Gil fan, otherwise he wouldnt wear his hair up and would not replicate thousands of....swords. Seems like a disguised Gil fan to me.


I have to admit, that did make me smile a bit.

Having said that, I thought it was summarized like 7 pages in that he was the king crud of kings? O-o

Anyways, he is quite an intelligent figure, without a doubt, but his ability to remain present in our world was a result of his Independant Action A. It litterally granted him the ability to be in our world indefinetly, but for any of his abilities, he'd need an outside prana source.

Which were the kids. Which was a combined effort between him and Kirei.

So while Gilgamesh is certainly incredibly intelligent, it's questionable if that intelligence is purely credited to him. Or if one could call him the most intelligent. His main flaw is still his arrogance though. I'd actually say he's quite similiar to El Eiio or however you spell his name in this factor. El got pissed because he felt insulted, and made rash, and frankly, stupid, movements. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the incredibly prideful, and arrogant Gilgamesh, made the same mistake in a critical moment and ended up dead as a result.

Otherwise, I think we really have covered all this a fair bit. Having said that, I definetly do feel that EMIYA and Lancelot were the only two characters we've seen canonically thus far who could rival Gilgamesh. EMIYA for his origin of sword, and UBW (no one point out he has to chant it, he's clever, he could easily set a trap) and Lancey cause Lancey's Lancey.
 
05-15-12, 4:45 AM

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Denithan said:
Orulyon said:
oh and Archer from FSN is obviously a Gil fan, otherwise he wouldnt wear his hair up and would not replicate thousands of....swords. Seems like a disguised Gil fan to me.


I have to admit, that did make me smile a bit.

Having said that, I thought it was summarized like 7 pages in that he was the king crud of kings? O-o

Anyways, he is quite an intelligent figure, without a doubt, but his ability to remain present in our world was a result of his Independant Action A. It litterally granted him the ability to be in our world indefinetly, but for any of his abilities, he'd need an outside prana source.

Which were the kids. Which was a combined effort between him and Kirei.

So while Gilgamesh is certainly incredibly intelligent, it's questionable if that intelligence is purely credited to him. Or if one could call him the most intelligent. His main flaw is still his arrogance though. I'd actually say he's quite similiar to El Eiio or however you spell his name in this factor. El got pissed because he felt insulted, and made rash, and frankly, stupid, movements. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the incredibly prideful, and arrogant Gilgamesh, made the same mistake in a critical moment and ended up dead as a result.

Otherwise, I think we really have covered all this a fair bit. Having said that, I definetly do feel that EMIYA and Lancelot were the only two characters we've seen canonically thus far who could rival Gilgamesh. EMIYA for his origin of sword, and UBW (no one point out he has to chant it, he's clever, he could easily set a trap) and Lancey cause Lancey's Lancey.


LOL, i just had to say it, but i dont want people to think im bashing Archer because i love him XDBut he is definitely a Gil fan

Indeed i agree with you. Gil´s arrogance is too much. It gives him a king pose but its just too much and its a major flaw in a war.
Well ofc Gil wouldnt go anywhere without Kirei´s brain too, but i still consider him to be pretty intelligent by himself;) But well, intelligence looses when obsession or arrogance joins.
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05-15-12, 6:29 AM

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Actually, he didn't really stick with Kirei because of his brain. He just honestly liked Kirei. Gilgamesh, THE Gilgamesh who accused someone liked Tokiomi of being boring, would spend time talking to Kirei while he did boring paperwork for The Church without much complaining.

And also...


I might add Nasu did wrote Fate route first and based the eroge off it but he more or less admitted all 3 routes are equally canonical. Heaven's Feel is actually the one that feels the most a "sequel" to Zero too. Fate is just your romantic eroge story and UBW is like an action story that explains the main character but nothing else (even RIn doesn't exactly gets THAT much focus and it's her route...or it's supposed to be)..
Modified by Leon-Gun, 05-15-12, 6:32 AM

 
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