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| Yes, ataraxial is right, it's in Saber's status page. I think Nasu said her dragon factor is the reason why her Magic Resistance is so high too (well that and Saber class), and thus dragon slaying spells bypass it. Also since I just noticed something said about Berserker, I'm pretty sure the only drawback he has from being Berserker (as opposed to Saber) is that he can't use Well, that and the huge mana drain. So this hero is the one that's almost completely better as Berserker. Heck, I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that Berserker could only keep up with Gilgamesh because of Mad Enhancement. Though I can't find a source for this statement (just that they posted it in Japanese before translating it). As for Kirei, the the anime kind of skipped a lot of his inner conflict, but the gist of it is that Kirei was always evil, but since he was raised as a holy man, he tried his best to distance himself from evil things and didn't even know he was evil. Gilgamesh's discussions with Kirei simply helped him to realize his true nature. |
Xenospiral said: I didn't really understand why Kirei changed so fast ? I mean ok he has his inner struggle and seems busy finding a goal in life but why would he become an evil bastard with the creepy smile and everything all of a sudden ? That doesn't really fit with his behavior during the rest of the show, unless I missed something... because they rushed this episode his father served as a kind of beacon that guided him away from his desires (finding pleasure in other people's pain) and once kayneth shot risei, kirei wandered off the pristine path and embraced the true nature of his soul Also since I just noticed something said about Berserker, I'm pretty sure the only drawback he has from being Berserker (as opposed to Saber) is that he can't use For Someone's Glory (the fog Noble Phantasm) to it's full potential. Well, that and the huge mana drain. So this hero is the one that's almost completely better as Berserker. Heck, I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that Berserker could only keep up with Gilgamesh because of Mad Enhancement. Though I can't find a source for this statement (just that they posted it in Japanese before translating it). |
BloodRequiemApr 29, 2012 5:51 PM
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| @ ataraxial: Oh okay. I just checked the posts again and saw the small change. Weird how I didn't catch that since I usually notice details. BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: @ TheRealBoyd: I didn't know Saber is weak against dragon slaying weapons. Was this ever mentioned in VN (I haven't gone through Heaven's Feel yet) or was this mentioned in one of Nasu's interviews? its prob in the character materials Oh. @ TheRealBoyd: Oh that makes a lot more sense why Saber has such a high magic resistance. Well I learned something new today (I should go find the translated status pages/character materials >_>) ataraxial said: sallym613 said: @ ssjokg, ataraxial, BloodRequiem: If you guys dont want to spoil Berserker's true identity, you might want to remove or edit the quoting as well. (Referring to #224, 225, 226 posts) @ insan3soldiern: Lovely avatar btw. (My faith in humanity declines every day.) Uhh...something I said? |
TheRealBoyd said: 1.i could have posted that but I already posted many spoilers for F/Z even if they were in tags. 2,3.I have nothing to add 4. still,that character WAS the last servant standing. 5,6.Classic Gilgamesh, yeah the movie was bad and " I don't know why people think he would not lose in two seconds without Gate of Babylon or Ea".perhaps you meant "not win"?It's like you ignored what you typed.Or it's time for me to go to bed.... 7.It's been some time since I read the VN. I didnt remember how the "fight" started Gilgamesh isnt my favorite Heroic Spirit but I believe that he is the strongest so Iam glad you posted this Well we didnt put him against fsn caster or assassin.... |
sallym613 said: @ ataraxial: Oh okay. I just checked the posts again and saw the small change. Weird how I didn't catch that since I usually notice details. BloodRequiem said: sallym613 said: @ TheRealBoyd: I didn't know Saber is weak against dragon slaying weapons. Was this ever mentioned in VN (I haven't gone through Heaven's Feel yet) or was this mentioned in one of Nasu's interviews? its prob in the character materials Oh. @ TheRealBoyd: Oh that makes a lot more sense why Saber has such a high magic resistance. Well I learned something new today (I should go find the translated status pages/character materials >_>) ataraxial said: sallym613 said: @ ssjokg, ataraxial, BloodRequiem: If you guys dont want to spoil Berserker's true identity, you might want to remove or edit the quoting as well. (Referring to #224, 225, 226 posts) @ insan3soldiern: Lovely avatar btw. (My faith in humanity declines every day.) Uhh...something I said? iirc in arthurs legend and nasu prob based it off that been a couple of years since ive read that |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
sallym613 said: Uhh...something I said? Sorry, that whole post was directed at BloodRequiem. He figured it out. |
 |
ssjokg said: TheRealBoyd said: 1.i could have posted that but I already posted many spoilers for F/Z even if they were in tags. 2,3.I have nothing to add 4. still,that character WAS the last servant standing. 5,6.Classic Gilgamesh, yeah the movie was bad and " I don't know why people think he would not lose in two seconds without Gate of Babylon or Ea".perhaps you meant "not win"?It's like you ignored what you typed.Or it's time for me to go to bed.... 7.It's been some time since I read the VN. I didnt remember how the "fight" started Gilgamesh isnt my favorite Heroic Spirit but I believe that he is the strongest so Iam glad you posted this Well we didnt put him against fsn caster or assassin.... Wait you mean Shirou takes the techniques or the status rise to meet the status of the original wielders?If his status rise depending to the weapon he is tracing ,I see why Gil had trouble.I always thought that he was able to use the techniques they had.... |
ataraxial said: sallym613 said: Uhh...something I said? Sorry, that whole post was directed at BloodRequiem. He figured it out. Oh okay. Just making sure ^^; (Yeah he finally edited his post.) Considering how much you guys are discussing about who's the strongest servant, I wouldnt be too surprised if someone made a poll thread about it by now... |
sallym613 said: ataraxial said: sallym613 said: Uhh...something I said? Sorry, that whole post was directed at BloodRequiem. He figured it out. Oh okay. Just making sure ^^; (Yeah he finally edited his post.) Considering how much you guys are discussing about who's the strongest servant, I wouldnt be too surprised if someone made a poll thread about it by now... polls usually end up becoming a popularity contest with iskander/saber winning |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
sallym613 said: I wouldnt be too surprised if someone made a poll thread about it by now... I'm considering doing this, although I'm not sure what would be the best way to put in Servants' names. At least we can free this thread from any future Servant-comparison hijacks. |
|
ataraxial said: sallym613 said: I wouldnt be too surprised if someone made a poll thread about it by now... I'm considering doing this, although I'm not sure what would be the best way to put in Servants' names. let's do this after the end of Zero.spoiler free of course |
ssjokg said: ataraxial said: sallym613 said: I wouldnt be too surprised if someone made a poll thread about it by now... I'm considering doing this, although I'm not sure what would be the best way to put in Servants' names. let's do this after the end of Zero.spoiler free of course Darn I already filled out everything... would it hurt to start it now? |
|
ataraxial said: ssjokg said: ataraxial said: sallym613 said: I wouldnt be too surprised if someone made a poll thread about it by now... I'm considering doing this, although I'm not sure what would be the best way to put in Servants' names. let's do this after the end of Zero.spoiler free of course Darn I already filled out everything... would it hurt to start it now? No I was just saying but make sure that people will know that there will be spoilers. |
ataraxial said: ssjokg said: ataraxial said: sallym613 said: I wouldnt be too surprised if someone made a poll thread about it by now... I'm considering doing this, although I'm not sure what would be the best way to put in Servants' names. let's do this after the end of Zero.spoiler free of course Darn I already filled out everything... would it hurt to start it now? Gilgamesh didnt even use 2 of his most important treasures yet and berserker didnt use |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| Made the thread. The spoilers heading is so that anything can be discussed including FZ-spoilers. |
|
| @ BloodRequiem: Which is quite unfortunate. Though they might change their minds after the end of F/Z *shrugs*. We could also do all of the servants within Fate Universe except there's not enough space options in MAL polls to do that... That would be fun to debate though (if we took into consideration the servants from FSN, F/Z, F/HA, F/A, etc.) @ ataraxial: DO IT! DO IT! Nah jk. I agree with what ssjokg said. It's probably better to gauge all servants' strength after the anime ends. That way people can get into F/Z LN (and FSN VN after that (if they're interested)) and we can have a more interesting debate on this without people raging on us for spoiling everything :P |
ssjokg said: Okay given that the other topic was made, hope you don't mind if I answer your questions there to free this topic from the Gilgamesh discussion.-snip- |
| First episode of the new season was entertaining, the second was fantastic with excalibur, third episode had Lancer kill himself due to a great tactical play by Emiya Kuritsugu, and this episode had Kotomine Kirei kill Tokiomi and receive all of the command spells and the right to train Rin. This series just keeps getting better and moves the plot in just the right ways without being too over the top. 5/5 |
| I found this to be not so entertaining except for when Gilgamesh starts talking and Kirei killing Tokiomi, that was interesting. Seeing a little bit of loli Rin brightened my day a little too. ^^ |
| So since when did this thread became a TypeMoon powerlevel thread and so blatant with spoilers? Is this MAL or /a/? |
 |
belatkuro said: So since when did this thread became a TypeMoon powerlevel thread and so blatant with spoilers? Is this MAL or /a/? Sorry, it was half my fault. However, I have diverted it to save this thread. |
|
| Nothing really much happened in this episode except for kirei betraying gilgamesh and having him as his boyfri- i mean servant. |
Gilver said: Nothing really much happened in this episode except for kirei betraying gilgamesh and having him as his boyfri- i mean servant. The second half of what you said made me lol. I was thinking that the whole time. |
ssjokg said: Everything related to the sword (fighting style, special abilities, magical attacks related to it) will be perfectly replicated. His power however remains just as it was, so he actually can literally break his body due to the fact he's passing the limits of his strenght. Or he would but he has plot hax to back him up (his body turns into something "not organic" to ensure it doesn't break and that other thingie you all know well about heals him, plus he actually can pull off some basic body reinforcement to give his body some extra strenght). But that's enough F/SN discussion from me.Wait you mean Shirou takes the techniques or the status rise to meet the status of the original wielders?If his status rise depending to the weapon he is tracing ,I see why Gil had trouble.I always thought that he was able to use the techniques they had.... |
 |
| Late as ever. Finally made though. Splendid episode it combined MOE and a shocking yet satisfying end for me. I liked a lot the deep conversation at the philosophical level with Kirei and Gilgamesh. My heart ached seeing Irisviel suffer but it was meaningful the conversation she had with Maiya. The car ride was nice to see. Finally all that mattered to me in the following,   Glory to GOD for laying punishment to Tokiomi. There is interesting saying that goes “What goes around comes around.” Tokiomi essentially through giving up in Sakura forsake a life and snuffed out its happiness and trust in him. Despite many sayings it does no justice for what Tokiomi did to Sakura. As a reference post: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=423431&show=80 Or did anyone forget that one? Surely there is nothing that can pay the suffering of that than death itself. As such Tokiomi got the fist of God and justice upon him. At the worst time of trust. Just like Sakura trusted him and at the worst time got sexually, physically and mentally abused by the worms having instead having been betrayed by that trust in him. Sakura never asked for any of this and as such his death got my smile all the time during it while thinking of Sakura. And so Amen to that one. Other than that, Rin in the following,  OMG my goes BOOM! Then I use my replacement. As if S1 was not enough once again it got me good in terms of Rin’s MOE. Kirei's father death was well shown and was shocking TBH. That being said I enjoyed this episode and its emotions along with its development and shall leave it that. However to compensate for my lateness I have betrayed a strong interesting BTW part. BTW Picture Dumb and Image Stitches have been done in the BLOG: http://ecchiking99.blogspot.ca/2012/04/fate-zero-episode-4-image-dump-and.html Lot of interesting Saber stuff. GIFs are left in the club: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=435331 Some interesting ones of Rin. Beginning and End arts in the spoiler You should also know there is a new GIF of Facepalm of Kirei in the spoiler |
Yumekichi11Apr 29, 2012 10:38 PM
| I understand why someone could dislike Tokiomi, but I definitely don't agree that he deserved to die the way he did. I actually think that he was a pretty decent guy and a good father to Rin at the very least. No, I think the problem that people have with him is that they just can't understand that he has a different way of living his life as a mage and has a different sort of moral code. Of course, it gets tricky when you throw Sakura into the mix. But, I'm of the opinion that, while he probably knew the type of magic the Matou's use, I don't think he knew to what lengths they would go to. Also, he was very much ingrained in the way of life he was probably raised into as a mage and wholeheartedly believed in that path. Much like Kiritsugu, I don't find him to be a likable character but I don't dislike him either. I think Tokiomi is just an example of someone stuck in a very, very outdated way of thinking, a way of life that even his much more open minded daughter Rin had trouble coming to terms with. I hope this made sense, just my jumbled up thoughts about a character I think is very hard to understand and near impossible for most of us to relate to. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| I like Tokiomi. The guy is not boring, he's just the classic type of mage and I like that feel about him. He's not a bad father too, did people miss out all those scenes with Rin or something, and with Sakura, he has his reason (reasonable enough for me). Too bad he got the worst luck though, who needs enemy when you have servant like Gil? |
| I was really curious to see how the reaction to this episode would go, given how unpopular Tokiomi had become after giving Sakura to Zouken and torching Kariya a few episodes back. It's pretty much as I expected, actually, though I can't say that I've ever been particularly fond of Tokiomi, myself. I don't believe that he deserved to die in the fashion that he did, and I did have some sympathy for Tokiomi, given the level to which he trusted and admired Kotomine. He had praised him as a student, made him the godfather to his child, and all but inducted him into his family, only to literally be stabbed in the back. So while the majority of my sympathy was aimed at Rin, given the level to which she obviously loved him and due to the identity of her new guardian, Tokiomi did obtain a portion of it. That said, I really can't excuse his actions, if his different cultural perspective, as a magus, is his only excuse. |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
insan3soldiern said: As much as I agree with you, I can not let this be an excuse of not being able to find out more about Sakura's condition or at least have a means to communicate with her. Instead to abandon the kid to a clan whom you do not know much about much less trust their ways are safe only to mistake, is not caring nor I think it's forgiveable to do so.I understand why someone could dislike Tokiomi, but I definitely don't agree that he deserved to die the way he did. I actually think that he was a pretty decent guy and a good father to Rin at the very least. No, I think the problem that people have with him is that they just can't understand that he has a different way of living his life as a mage and has a different sort of moral code. Of course, it gets tricky when you throw Sakura into the mix. But, I'm of the opinion that, while he probably knew the type of magic the Matou's use, I don't think he knew to what lengths they would go to. Also, he was very much ingrained in the way of life he was probably raised into as a mage and wholeheartedly believed in that path. Much like Kiritsugu, I don't find him to be a likable character but I don't dislike him either. I think Tokiomi is just an example of someone stuck in a very, very outdated way of thinking, a way of life that even his much more open minded daughter Rin had trouble coming to terms with. Therefore I cannot accept the value of your argument VS that suffering that in words comes of Sakura's fate. For that outweighs more. |
Yumekichi11 said: insan3soldiern said: As much as I agree with you, I can not let this be an excuse of not being able to find out more about Sakura's condition or at least have a means to communicate with her. Instead to abandon the kid to a clan whom you do not know much about much less trust their ways are safe only to mistake, is not caring nor I think it's forgiveable to do so.I understand why someone could dislike Tokiomi, but I definitely don't agree that he deserved to die the way he did. I actually think that he was a pretty decent guy and a good father to Rin at the very least. No, I think the problem that people have with him is that they just can't understand that he has a different way of living his life as a mage and has a different sort of moral code. Of course, it gets tricky when you throw Sakura into the mix. But, I'm of the opinion that, while he probably knew the type of magic the Matou's use, I don't think he knew to what lengths they would go to. Also, he was very much ingrained in the way of life he was probably raised into as a mage and wholeheartedly believed in that path. Much like Kiritsugu, I don't find him to be a likable character but I don't dislike him either. I think Tokiomi is just an example of someone stuck in a very, very outdated way of thinking, a way of life that even his much more open minded daughter Rin had trouble coming to terms with. Therefore I cannot accept the value of your argument VS that suffering that in words comes of Sakura's fate. For that outweighs more. it was either the matous (ancient allies) or sealing designation by the association plus tokiomi didnt know about the rape/abuse |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: Still can go back to "Finding out" about it. Just after that first time in S1 would have made all the difference in taking her out from there. Instead nothing was done and it got worse. Yumekichi11 said: insan3soldiern said: As much as I agree with you, I can not let this be an excuse of not being able to find out more about Sakura's condition or at least have a means to communicate with her. Instead to abandon the kid to a clan whom you do not know much about much less trust their ways are safe only to mistake, is not caring nor I think it's forgiveable to do so.I understand why someone could dislike Tokiomi, but I definitely don't agree that he deserved to die the way he did. I actually think that he was a pretty decent guy and a good father to Rin at the very least. No, I think the problem that people have with him is that they just can't understand that he has a different way of living his life as a mage and has a different sort of moral code. Of course, it gets tricky when you throw Sakura into the mix. But, I'm of the opinion that, while he probably knew the type of magic the Matou's use, I don't think he knew to what lengths they would go to. Also, he was very much ingrained in the way of life he was probably raised into as a mage and wholeheartedly believed in that path. Much like Kiritsugu, I don't find him to be a likable character but I don't dislike him either. I think Tokiomi is just an example of someone stuck in a very, very outdated way of thinking, a way of life that even his much more open minded daughter Rin had trouble coming to terms with. Therefore I cannot accept the value of your argument VS that suffering that in words comes of Sakura's fate. For that outweighs more. it was either the matous (ancient allies) or sealing designation by the association plus tokiomi didnt know about the rape/abuse Therefore Tokiomi exhibited ignorance on that part of my referred post of his philosophy, which goes back again in short to fail being too conservative. A backfire of traditions so to speak. |
| This episode sealed the deal, this TV series will be the best of the year, nothing will top it. Ufotable once again you have stunned me. |
Xenospiral said: I didn't really understand why Kirei changed so fast ? I mean ok he has his inner struggle and seems busy finding a goal in life but why would he become an evil bastard with the creepy smile and everything all of a sudden ? That doesn't really fit with his behavior during the rest of the show, unless I missed something... You didn't really miss anything. It's just, the pacing in this episode was a little...off, as most have said already. The change in Kirei, on the other hand, has been slowly and steadily boiling inside of him since the first season. Yumekichi11 said: You should also know there is a new GIF of Facepalm of Kirei in the spoiler Heh. Thanks for that. |
BloodRequiem said: Actually there was no such an implication in any of the material as far as I saw. Sealing Designations are issued against extremely rare magi or dangerous ones (some of them being Dead Apostles)...Yumekichi11 said: insan3soldiern said: As much as I agree with you, I can not let this be an excuse of not being able to find out more about Sakura's condition or at least have a means to communicate with her. Instead to abandon the kid to a clan whom you do not know much about much less trust their ways are safe only to mistake, is not caring nor I think it's forgiveable to do so.I understand why someone could dislike Tokiomi, but I definitely don't agree that he deserved to die the way he did. I actually think that he was a pretty decent guy and a good father to Rin at the very least. No, I think the problem that people have with him is that they just can't understand that he has a different way of living his life as a mage and has a different sort of moral code. Of course, it gets tricky when you throw Sakura into the mix. But, I'm of the opinion that, while he probably knew the type of magic the Matou's use, I don't think he knew to what lengths they would go to. Also, he was very much ingrained in the way of life he was probably raised into as a mage and wholeheartedly believed in that path. Much like Kiritsugu, I don't find him to be a likable character but I don't dislike him either. I think Tokiomi is just an example of someone stuck in a very, very outdated way of thinking, a way of life that even his much more open minded daughter Rin had trouble coming to terms with. Therefore I cannot accept the value of your argument VS that suffering that in words comes of Sakura's fate. For that outweighs more. it was either the matous (ancient allies) or sealing designation by the association plus tokiomi didnt know about the rape/abuse As far as I remember Tokiomi just didn't want to waste either Sakura or Rin's talents. It is specifically stated that Sakura is on the very same potential level of Rin but their element is just too different. Rin is an overpowered but conventional mage who can wield all the natural elements. Sakura's element however just doesn't match with the Tokiomi family's magecraft. But since Sakura was still a potentially excellent magus he selected RIn as his heir and instead of destroying all chances for Sakura's future in magic he sent her to be the heir of a different house. On paper it was the best move, Matou magecraft deals with spirits and curses and that's the perfect complement for the Imaginary Element. Tokiomi apparently was just too stupid to actually bother investigating Zouken further, or perhaps he thought the risk was just part of being a mage and that whatever happenned it was just part of it. BTW, for those who were a little thrown off by Kirei's change or perhaps think Kirei was manipulated entirely by Gilgamesh...he wasn't. WHile gen changed things, the main deal remained the same and that includes Kirei's characterization. Kotomine Kirei, as Fate/Stay Night says, is a man who spent his whole life looking for himself because the self he had found was too hideous for him to accept. He actually even trained as an Executor once, which some might not know are actually the "killers" of The Church (Tsukihime players are more acquainted with Executors). There's a very poignant and easily missed statement spoken by Risei which mentions that "this (the Holy Grail War) might help him after the death of his wife". This is actually something only a Fate/Stay Night player will catch or pay attention to, because it's revealed by Kirei himself that he felt regret about her death, the regret of not being the one to end her life. So yeah, he's known all along he was twisted, he just didn't want to accept it, so he kept drifting from place to place without finding a "morally right" path because no morally right path can satisfy him. |
Leon-GunApr 30, 2012 12:51 AM
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Leon-Gun said: BloodRequiem said: Actually there was no such an implication in any of the material as far as I saw. Sealing Designations are issued against extremely rare magi or dangerous ones (some of them being Dead Apostles)...Yumekichi11 said: insan3soldiern said: As much as I agree with you, I can not let this be an excuse of not being able to find out more about Sakura's condition or at least have a means to communicate with her. Instead to abandon the kid to a clan whom you do not know much about much less trust their ways are safe only to mistake, is not caring nor I think it's forgiveable to do so.I understand why someone could dislike Tokiomi, but I definitely don't agree that he deserved to die the way he did. I actually think that he was a pretty decent guy and a good father to Rin at the very least. No, I think the problem that people have with him is that they just can't understand that he has a different way of living his life as a mage and has a different sort of moral code. Of course, it gets tricky when you throw Sakura into the mix. But, I'm of the opinion that, while he probably knew the type of magic the Matou's use, I don't think he knew to what lengths they would go to. Also, he was very much ingrained in the way of life he was probably raised into as a mage and wholeheartedly believed in that path. Much like Kiritsugu, I don't find him to be a likable character but I don't dislike him either. I think Tokiomi is just an example of someone stuck in a very, very outdated way of thinking, a way of life that even his much more open minded daughter Rin had trouble coming to terms with. Therefore I cannot accept the value of your argument VS that suffering that in words comes of Sakura's fate. For that outweighs more. it was either the matous (ancient allies) or sealing designation by the association plus tokiomi didnt know about the rape/abuse As far as I remember Tokiomi just didn't want to waste either Sakura or Rin's talents. It is specifically stated that Sakura is on the very same potential level of Rin but their element is just too different. Rin is an overpowered but conventional mage who can wield all the natural elements. Sakura's element however just doesn't match with the Tokiomi family's magecraft. But since Sakura was still a potentially excellent magus he selected RIn as his heir and instead of destroying all chances for Sakura's future in magic he sent her to be the heir of a different house. On paper it was the best move, Matou magecraft deals with spirits and curses and that's the perfect complement for the Imaginary Element. Tokiomi apparently was just too stupid to actually bother investigating Zouken further, or perhaps he thought the risk was just part of being a mage and that whatever happenned it was just part of it. from tokiomi's monologue |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
BloodRequiem said: That is an unfortunate change in Gen's LN honestly, mostly because there's nothing to "save" of a mage that's not even properly trained. They'd glady put a Sealing Designation on Shirou due to his Reality Marble however, and former Sakura for sure. But how she was before this all started? Sounds like he just made up a tale in his head to feel better about it.from tokiomi's monologue |
|
| Kotomine's expressions from the start when he found out about his dad to the end with his betrayal were priceless... |
Leon-Gun said: BloodRequiem said: That is an unfortunate change in Gen's LN honestly, mostly because there's nothing to "save" of a mage that's not even properly trained. They'd glady put a Sealing Designation on Shirou due to his Reality Marble however, and former Sakura for sure. But how she was before this all started? Sounds like he just made up a tale in his head to feel better about it.from tokiomi's monologue ^This.And lets not forget that after everything tha happened in FSN(mostly HF)the Mages Association barely did anything.If they cared so much they would have "taken care" of |
ssjokgApr 30, 2012 5:08 AM
ssjokg said: What Zelretch mainly involved himself in was because...Leon-Gun said: BloodRequiem said: That is an unfortunate change in Gen's LN honestly, mostly because there's nothing to "save" of a mage that's not even properly trained. They'd glady put a Sealing Designation on Shirou due to his Reality Marble however, and former Sakura for sure. But how she was before this all started? Sounds like he just made up a tale in his head to feel better about it.from tokiomi's monologue ^This.And lets not forget that after everything tha happened in FSN(mostly HF)the Mages Association barely did anything.If they cared so much they would have "taken care" of... |
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BloodRequiem said: it was either the matous (ancient allies) or sealing designation by the association plus tokiomi didnt know about the rape/abuse Ignorantia juris non excusat - Ignorance is no excuse. Even the deal that Zouken presented is questionable. Rin has well over twice as many magic circuits as the average magus, and according to Tokiomi, Sakura was born with a comparable level of talent. You’re telling me that no magi, throughout the entire magical world, would be interested in adopting such a high quality heir? Kiritsugu may have been unorthodox in other ways, but I find it difficult to believe that him, and Zouken, were the only decent magi with any interest in adoption. Heck, Kariya, as incompetent a magi as he is, would have been a far better and more willing guardian of Sakura, than Zouken was. I’m not sure what the Association’s laws are concerning this, but as a member of a respectable magus family, he could at least be counted on to maintain the masquerade. Sakura’s potential would have been squandered, and Tokiomi may have a personal grudge against him, but at least he could dig up information on the guy. |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan! |
| The deed is finally done, and the contract sealed. Tokiomi, the third Master to fall, dies at the hands of his esteemed "student". In a way, Tokiomi had this coming to him for all that plotting from behind the shadows. If he did not collaborate with Kirei in the first place, he would not have died like this (of course that doesn't prevent him from dying sooner or later due to other causes). I see Kirei has also taken for himself all the extra Command Spells his father had. Having so many would be a good advantage, though I also wonder what happened to those that he already possessed. I wonder how Kariya will take the news of his archenemy's death at the hands of someone else, if he even gets word of it. He lives only for revenge on Tokiomi and to see Sakura free from his own hated family. Also, Saber gets a motorcycle. Somehow, the notion of knights in modern clothing and riding a motorcycle sounds so appealing. |
SayakaMagica said: I wonder how Kariya will take the news of his archenemy's death at the hands of someone else, if he even gets word of it. He lives only for revenge on Tokiomi and to see Sakura free from his own hated family You will have a chance to see that later.And it is way worse than you think it will be... |
ssjokg said: SayakaMagica said: I wonder how Kariya will take the news of his archenemy's death at the hands of someone else, if he even gets word of it. He lives only for revenge on Tokiomi and to see Sakura free from his own hated family You will have a chance to see that later.And it is way worse than you think it will be... I just hope that all his negative energy of hatred won't be directed into a tragic path. who am I kidding, this is Urobuchi we are talking about here. Murphy's Law is his bread and butter. |
jeroz said: ssjokg said: SayakaMagica said: I wonder how Kariya will take the news of his archenemy's death at the hands of someone else, if he even gets word of it. He lives only for revenge on Tokiomi and to see Sakura free from his own hated family You will have a chance to see that later.And it is way worse than you think it will be... I just hope that all his negative energy of hatred won't be directed into a tragic path. who am I kidding, this is Urobuchi we are talking about here. Murphy's Law is his bread and butter. well lets just say that everyone will be more shocked from what will happen when Kariya finds out about Tokiomi's death than they were when Team Lancer died... |
ssjokg said: jeroz said: ssjokg said: SayakaMagica said: I wonder how Kariya will take the news of his archenemy's death at the hands of someone else, if he even gets word of it. He lives only for revenge on Tokiomi and to see Sakura free from his own hated family You will have a chance to see that later.And it is way worse than you think it will be... I just hope that all his negative energy of hatred won't be directed into a tragic path. who am I kidding, this is Urobuchi we are talking about here. Murphy's Law is his bread and butter. well lets just say that everyone will be more shocked from what will happen when Kariya finds out about Tokiomi's death than they were when Team Lancer died... anyone notice how kariya changed since the beginning of the war? started with hold on sakura now is tokiomi and zouken i will kill you both |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
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