m3t4l said: Hello there, guys, I'm writing this for a few reasons, the first one is to criticize the random use of 10bit depth color and profile 5.1 by many fansubs. This just won't work with the majority of BluRay Players. Anime wasn't meant to be watched in a monitor You mix up two different things here, fansubs and the official release. It's true that the main medium for anime is TV, and that the most used players are the ones you described, but this only applies to licensed anime. All fansubs are meant to be played on a computer and they are almost without exception played with players like CCCP or VLC. If you wish to use the official medium meant to watch anime please obtain a official copy which was made for this purpose before whining about incompatibility. It's like whining that a pirated book doesn't work on your legal E-book reader. You aren't obviously in the target audience of fansubs. Edit: http://www.ps3mediaserver.org this might help btw (supports xbox). |
IDexApr 28, 2012 2:22 PM
| Reencoding doesn't take very much effort or time if you're using a desktop bought in the last 5 years. I redid 26 episodes of a 720p anime with subtitles burned in and it took me about 4 hours. Doing the math, if you use a PC 4 hours a day, full load, at night... it'll cost you 5 bucks a month and you could theoretically covert 780 twenty five minute 720p episodes a month. That's over 13 days of anime if watched back to back. How does that cost a lot? |
| Some people in this topic are forgetting which the guy who opens this topic is a brazilian and electronics in Brazil isn't cheap like in the U.S. So, it isn't easy to buy these things quickly in Brazil. Returning to main theme of the topic, I suggest to you buy a laptop and a HDMI cable. The compatibility is perfect and you can download any file compatibile with CCCP, K-Lite codec pack without problems. I agree which is nice to run files in a Smart TV or Bluray directly, but this method isn't 100% compatibly. Another thing: 10bits files are smaller than 8bits files. For storage, it's a great advantage. |
NiN10d0h said: RoCSC-006C1BST said: if you have sufficient money to buy a video-game, you certainly have money to buy a computer. I didn't know computers were $60-100 now. Now if you mean consoles, then you have a point. Lovely, way to go to interpret a sentence completely out of context. If I wanted to fake superiority I would correct your grammar mistakes or my own, good luck next time to try to not sound like an idiot. m3t4l said: I understand that my critic is somehow unfair: I'm not paying anything to the producers, to the fansubs etc. Yet, we can't deny that the Internet has changed the way entertainment goes around the globe. Maybe in the USA, there's a proper market with the latest anime BDs and such, but that's an exception, considering there are 200+ countries (and, by the way american dubs are horrible as far as I've seem them). On the other hand, BluRay Players were around for a few years before Matroska format and AVC encoders could take over DivX, it was only natural that the paradigm of DVDPlayers would leave room for BDPlayers. The change was reasonable, and nowadays Series and 90% of the Movies are encoded following a few rules (It's not 100% because there are some groups that, just like in anime scene, are not thinking about playing it on the TV - you can always use a top-notch laptop with hdmi output - how much they cost in your country it's a different story, BDPlayers are getting popular, high-end laptops, not really...). I should add that I don’t live in US, and most countries fall under the Berne Convention anyway. Whatever country you might live in, it doesn’t change the principal purpose of anime is to earn money and that their main targeted audience are the Japanese, pirating anime is illegal regardless of your country. Anime digital fansubed files were distributed in mkv long before bd-players were available, it was already mentioned and it should be reminded that fansubs were and still are meant to be played primarily by a computer. Most fansubs changed formats frequently, the criticism of the 10bit already happened in the past when they switched from .avi to .mp4 and then to .mkv. All changes are reasonable enough if the general computer hardware and software can handle the formats. As far as I can tell, computers are much more common than bd-players, set-up boxes, a xbox 360 or a ps3. Whatever it is your country, the price of computers able to play 10bit 1080p tend to be generally similar or at most a tiny bit more costly than most bd-players, a ps3, etc, or 720p would be good enough. They are in no way a powerhouse, you don’t need an i7 @3Ghz to run 10bit 1080p. If you’re in such a dire need of income, why the hell are you here watching anime instead of working? |
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RoCSC-006C1BST said: I should add that I don’t live in US, and most countries fall under the Berne Convention anyway. Whatever country you might live in, it doesn’t change the principal purpose of anime is to earn money and that their main targeted audience are the Japanese, pirating anime is illegal regardless of your country. Anime digital fansubed files were distributed in mkv long before bd-players were available, it was already mentioned and it should be reminded that fansubs were and still are meant to be played primarily by a computer. Most fansubs changed formats frequently, the criticism of the 10bit already happened in the past when they switched from .avi to .mp4 and then to .mkv. All changes are reasonable enough if the general computer hardware and software can handle the formats. As far as I can tell, computers are much more common than bd-players, set-up boxes, a xbox 360 or a ps3. Whatever it is your country, the price of computers able to play 10bit 1080p tend to be generally similar or at most a tiny bit more costly than most bd-players, a ps3, etc, or 720p would be good enough. They are in no way a powerhouse, you don’t need an i7 @3Ghz to run 10bit 1080p. If you’re in such a dire need of income, why the hell are you here watching anime instead of working? RoCSC-006C1BST, I understand what you're saying. You're right, piracy is surely against the laws and international conventions indeed. Saying this in this site here, MyAnimeList, however, is hypocrisy. In MAL we find the way to the fansubs that translate anime without the industry's consent, we often ask and indicate which is the best fansub, which one translates best, the places we can find raws etc. However, the way you say it, makes me belive you think PC-based distribution to be legal. That, of course, is ridiculous. Any means of irregular distribution is illegal, doesn't matter if I'm trying to achive a BD-like experience or If I'm content in playing it on a 15'' monitor. But I find this question mostly complex, after all, we could spend days arguing about accessbility, importation, economical impact, marketing, intellectual property law globally etc. I feel, also, that you're kind of taking this personally (maybe you're actually buying all your BluRays/DVDs and paying to see the Japanese channels that play animes - considering you understand Japanese), but I just don't want to buy another laptop just to see anime. My laptops play 10bit just fine, they just don't have hdmi output, which sucks. If they had, I wouldn't have started this topic. |
m3t4l said: RoCSC-006C1BST, I understand what you're saying. You're right, piracy is surely against the laws and international conventions indeed. Saying this in this site here, MyAnimeList, however, is hypocrisy. In MAL we find the way to the fansubs that translate anime without the industry's consent, we often ask and indicate which is the best fansub, which one translates best, the places we can find raws etc. However, the way you say it, makes me belive you think PC-based distribution to be legal. That, of course, is ridiculous. Any means of irregular distribution is illegal, doesn't matter if I'm trying to achive a BD-like experience or If I'm content in playing it on a 15'' monitor. But I find this question mostly complex, after all, we could spend days arguing about accessbility, importation, economical impact, marketing, intellectual property law globally etc. I feel, also, that you're kind of taking this personally (maybe you're actually buying all your BluRays/DVDs and paying to see the Japanese channels that play animes - considering you understand Japanese), but I just don't want to buy another laptop just to see anime. My laptops play 10bit just fine, they just don't have hdmi output, which sucks. If they had, I wouldn't have started this topic. No, hypocrisy is to try to justify something illegal, I don't try to justify anything. I clearly watch anime illegally,but I'm aware what laws I'm breaking. Beside, this was related to the proper manner to watch anime, illegal distribution of any kind is obviously improper. The only truly proper way is to watch as it was intended to be. Those who have actual rights to complain to the way anime are obtained are those who acquired them through legal means. There are no moral grounds if you never contributed anything to the creators. As for your laptop, you could try using the VGA+stereo out of your laptop to your television, image quality won't be as good, but it'd still be great. Most televisions provide such inputs, I never heard of a plasma or LCD television without them. Overall you will hardly notice a difference. I doubt that your blu-ray or dvd player can properly decode 5.1 sound, and most anime have simulated 5.1 sound. |
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| Fansubbers generally use .MKV for their releases, and 10-bit or not .MKV's don't play on Xbox and Ps3 anyway? Because I can't watch anime on my computer ATM I have to convert it over to .M4V in order to watch on my Xbox or Ps3. |
RoCSC-006C1BST said: No, hypocrisy is to try to justify something illegal, I don't try to justify anything. I clearly watch anime illegally,but I'm aware what laws I'm breaking. Beside, this was related to the proper manner to watch anime, illegal distribution of any kind is obviously improper. The only truly proper way is to watch as it was intended to be. Those who have actual rights to complain to the way anime are obtained are those who acquired them through legal means. There are no moral grounds if you never contributed anything to the creators. As for your laptop, you could try using the VGA+stereo out of your laptop to your television, image quality won't be as good, but it'd still be great. Most televisions provide such inputs, I never heard of a plasma or LCD television without them. Overall you will hardly notice a difference. I doubt that your blu-ray or dvd player can properly decode 5.1 sound, and most anime have simulated 5.1 sound. I've already tried the D-sub connection, but the HDMI is truly and clearly superior. I guess it depends on the TV too, I mean, I can't see much difference in D-sub and HDMI connection in my monitor. JoeLT, if I'm not mistaken, nowadays it's possible to play MKV and MP4 in PS3 and Xbox360, but I'm not really sure about the details. Nowadays, it's even possible to stream of video from your PC remotely to a TV wirelessly, then it's going to be great for those who want to watch anime on amazing led screens and stuff. Bottom line of the discussion: 10bit seems to have come to stay; reencoding takes as long as the video duration in regular pcs (but works, generally speaking); the best tools to convert these videos are Xvid4PSP, Handbreak, H264LevelEditor, MeGUI; if you have a BDPlayer that plays MKV and a 8 bit video, watch it on the TV, it's amazing; HorribleSubs has some series in 8 bit (I just watched Apollon in the TV, it's just superb, and the audio is just amazing with the subwoofer). |
JoeLT said: Fansubbers generally use .MKV for their releases, and 10-bit or not .MKV's don't play on Xbox and Ps3 anyway? Because I can't watch anime on my computer ATM I have to convert it over to .M4V in order to watch on my Xbox or Ps3. Actually you can now with the PS3 Media server. Which transcodes the show as you watch. I can perfectly watch Fate\Zero episodes which are10bit from UTW through my PS3 with HDMI to my TV. But keep in mind that not all anime can be watched fine with this. Not everyone encodes the same and there are to be out of sync audio etc and frame losses at some .mkv videos. But the best option is as always t plug a HDMI cable from your laptop\PC to your HD TV. With this you can watch whatever you want just fine on your TV as your 2nd monitor. ;] |
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| What I've been doing is using "batchencoder GUI" for "HandbrakeCLI" to convert any kind of video to playable format in my TV with styled subs, it's working just fine without noticeable quality loss. I use this command line in the batch encoder GUI: -f mp4 -e x264 --x264-preset faster --cfr -q 19 -a 1 -E copy -s 1 --subtitle-burn 1 |
FauxAzn said: m3t4l said: FauxAzn said: If your only argument against 10bit is that "Anime wasn't meant to be watched in a monitor", then why not just hook up a TV to your computer? I watch stuff on my 32" perfectly fine. That was just a thought. I'm against it because the main source of anime is the BDs and the HDTV, why encode stuff that's can't play in a BDP or in a HDTV without a laptop/pc (lemme bring down my whole pc two sets of stairs to watch an episode yay!). -_- Bring down your laptop, not your desktop. If you don't have a laptop... Well, if you have two sets of stairs, a 360, a PS3, and Bluray players, I'm assuming you probably have a good amount of money, so buy a TV and keep it next to your computer (a 32" nowadays is only $200). Or is there still a problem? Or he can simply build an HTPC and stop bothering with crap like PS3, Xbox and blu-ray players. I'll say it again anyone who prefers putting other stuff under his TV than an HTPC is clinically insane. |
| Certain fansub groups that shall remain nameless enjoy deliberately doing things that break standalone hardware compatibility, preclude hardware-accelerated decoding, and generally make files more difficult to play if you didn't buy your PC last month. Naturally, adopting 10-bit and L5.1 were easy choices for these groups, and they sent their personal armies to spam MAL fansubber voting to shame other groups into following along, with ridiculous comments like "Still using 8-bit in 2011?" when 10-bit was only introduced in mid/late 2011. Or they self-declare that the "8-bit era has ended" immediately after 10-bit was introduced, clearly thinking that change happens overnight when, for example, the XviD -> h264 transition for TV-fansub primary releases took almost four years. So my suggestions (or rather "steps I take to avoid 10-bit where possible") are: 1) Obtain compatible official-release versions from fansub groups, such as the low-res versions. 2) Obtain unofficial re-encodes. Groups like Deadfish (and before them, NemDiggers and Kanjouteki) did 1280x720 8-bit .mp4 re-encodes, though for me the 400p/XviD/avi re-encodes are also an option. 3) If possible, find 8-bit raws, download the 10-bit fansubs, extract the subs and fonts, and remux. I don't know how well other hardware handles softsubs, though. Plus, you may encounter slight timing skews of a few frames or so, more if the original groups leave in sponsor screens or commercials. 4) Re-encode yourself. DYRE said: Can anybody actually tell if something is encoded in 8-bit or10-bit on normal viewing, absent any filename tags or technical info from AniDB/MediaInfo/etc.?Because 10 bit H.264 is far better than 8 bit H.264, Another_Unknown said: Even if they are smaller now (which I don't see), I doubt they'll stay that way for long. Remember when h.264 first came out, and everyone said it would mean a storage advantage over XviD? What did we get? Bloat, some improvement, and more bloat. Granted, source quality and resolutions have increased since the low-res days of XviD. But these days encoders spend tons of bitrate to preserve irrelevant details that're only visible in still screenshot comparisons, while not filtering or fixing actual visual flaws for fear of losing some critical detail like roof tiles or wall textures.Another thing: 10bits files are smaller than 8bits files. For storage, it's a great advantage. |
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RoCSC-006C1BST said: [ The argument of not having enough money is completely invalid since if you have sufficient money to buy a video-game, you certainly have money to buy a computer. No offence but that is absurd. So you are saying a kid that saves up money to buy a video game which is like $80-$90 a pop can EASILY afford a $700-$2000 desktop PC? even then a basic laptop would be about $500. (Im from Aus by the way) That does not make sense at all. I not saying the Thread starter is a kid. Just an example as kids earn less than adults. |
| I don't actually know any that still use 8bits. As for the "it's not meant to be watched in a PC monitor", that's true. That's also why any hook up the PC to a hidef TV. So, no, I can't really help you, as I literally don't know any. I think Doki did some 720p in 8bit though. PS: The use of 10bit is not random, it a choice. It's also no random since almost everyone is doing it for anime. |
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| Does these 10 bit encodes play on Samsung Full HD LCD TV's? I mean when played directly through it's USB(built-in player) ? |
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