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Terror crazyness incident 999899999346336, keep on rolling.
MyAnimeList.net Forum »» Current Events »» Terror crazyness incident 999899999346336, keep on rolling.

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04-10-12, 10:35 AM

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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2079
Monad said:
DarkShards said:
Man, I can't believe they check tweets of people coming into the states, LOL. Well, now we know =D.


Not only people coming into the states, locals ain't excluded.


Oh, I know they check tweets of everyone, what I am surprised about is them being persistent enough to catch him at the airport haha.

"I like to expose what people hide. I'm an intellectual rapist." - Furudo Erika
 
04-10-12, 10:43 AM

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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 23
Tachii said:
^ Of course you can.

:/.


"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

A quote by Benjamin Franklin. I really hold true to that because if you allow the state to take more and more liberty, eventually, you have to fear the state. So eventually the people protecting you, also become the people oppressing and hurting you.

Most power eventually becomes abused, so you have to be careful the power you allow your government and society to have over you (the people)
 
04-10-12, 12:02 PM

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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 806
allenkerky said:
Tachii said:
^ Of course you can.

:/.


"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

A quote by Benjamin Franklin. I really hold true to that because if you allow the state to take more and more liberty, eventually, you have to fear the state. So eventually the people protecting you, also become the people oppressing and hurting you.

Most power eventually becomes abused, so you have to be careful the power you allow your government and society to have over you (the people)


Do you view airport security or border patrol as a legitimate violation of your personal liberties as a United States citizen?

 
04-10-12, 12:33 PM

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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 11432
rekindledflame said:
allenkerky said:
Tachii said:
^ Of course you can.

:/.


"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

A quote by Benjamin Franklin. I really hold true to that because if you allow the state to take more and more liberty, eventually, you have to fear the state. So eventually the people protecting you, also become the people oppressing and hurting you.

Most power eventually becomes abused, so you have to be careful the power you allow your government and society to have over you (the people)


Do you view airport security or border patrol as a legitimate violation of your personal liberties as a United States citizen?


It's all about being reasonable. No one said that there shouldn't be an airport security but the airport security shouldn't be anal invade too much in you privacy or make you feel humiliation.
Security should still treat you as an equal human being and not like an already probable terrorist.
Things like taking your fingerprints making you take your shoes off, searching your PC files, touching you or your kids too much or going through your bags by throwing stuff around etc shouldn't exist.
People should be able to go on their vacations or visit their family easily and not be afraid of security bullies. We should not let our lives being ruled by terror and fear.
Besides most of those crazy additions of humiliation and annoyance to passengers hardly do anything to increase security. It's more like they are designed to keep you scared than actually keep you secured.

If someone made a movie in the early 90's about the shit they do now people will have joked about it and say they don't expect such Owelian things to ever really happen but here we are. People forget that many things happening starting from the US and spreading will be considered an over reaching imagination some years back. I mean wtf, knowing everything you do, say or write and they even approved of killing people without trials, that's some crazy shit out of stories we used to read about crazy fascist future societies.
 
04-10-12, 1:25 PM

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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10371
allenkerky said:
Tachii said:
^ Of course you can.

:/.


"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

A quote by Benjamin Franklin. I really hold true to that because if you allow the state to take more and more liberty, eventually, you have to fear the state. So eventually the people protecting you, also become the people oppressing and hurting you.

Most power eventually becomes abused, so you have to be careful the power you allow your government and society to have over you (the people)
All my post really meant was to discourage people from posting one-liners which is usually hopelessly simplistic and impractical.

In reality we need both liberty and security. We need to properly weigh the two. When you suggest we cannot trade liberty for security, well, it all comes down to context. There should legitimately be a time where security is valued higher than liberty, and vice-versa. To simplify reality to one-liner idealistic quotes, while sounds good, isn't something I would abide by.

And besides, there is no absolute in anything. Everything is temporary. His quote seem to suggest we shouldn't trade any liberty for security, which is the other extreme of the spectrum.
 
04-10-12, 1:47 PM

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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 806
Monad said:
rekindledflame said:
allenkerky said:
Tachii said:
^ Of course you can.

:/.


"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

A quote by Benjamin Franklin. I really hold true to that because if you allow the state to take more and more liberty, eventually, you have to fear the state. So eventually the people protecting you, also become the people oppressing and hurting you.

Most power eventually becomes abused, so you have to be careful the power you allow your government and society to have over you (the people)


Do you view airport security or border patrol as a legitimate violation of your personal liberties as a United States citizen?


It's all about being reasonable. No one said that there shouldn't be an airport security but the airport security shouldn't be anal invade too much in you privacy or make you feel humiliation.
Security should still treat you as an equal human being and not like an already probable terrorist.
Things like taking your fingerprints making you take your shoes off, searching your PC files, touching you or your kids too much or going through your bags by throwing stuff around etc shouldn't exist.
People should be able to go on their vacations or visit their family easily and not be afraid of security bullies. We should not let our lives being ruled by terror and fear.
Besides most of those crazy additions of humiliation and annoyance to passengers hardly do anything to increase security. It's more like they are designed to keep you scared than actually keep you secured.

If someone made a movie in the early 90's about the shit they do now people will have joked about it and say they don't expect such Owelian things to ever really happen but here we are. People forget that many things happening starting from the US and spreading will be considered an over reaching imagination some years back. I mean wtf, knowing everything you do, say or write and they even approved of killing people without trials, that's some crazy shit out of stories we used to read about crazy fascist future societies.


Of course and I certainly agree it can and usually is a hassle to travel. Also, I'd add airport security can not ask nor force you to show the files on your laptop just in case one ever asks, customs on the other hand, can require it if entering the country. Most of these cases however do not represent the majority. The majority will not be fingerprinted, nor will the majority have to give access to their pc files. While everyone has to take their shoes off there is precedence for that.

Sometimes these things will of course happen and it's certainly frustrating, hell I've wished horrible things on many border guards, but I think this is being blown out of proportion. I would like to believe that security officials in majority of cases have received the proper training (specifically CBA) to be able to make the right judgement call majority of the time. However, understandable sometimes they will not, and will make mistakes that might be viewed as harassment, and it's these cases that will be remembered, rather than all the times one traveled without incident.

The particular article in my mind, displays a bad judgment call, but I think this topic in general is trying to portray this as far more common than it actually is, as if it is a norm.

 
04-10-12, 2:36 PM

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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 11432
rekindledflame said:
Monad said:
rekindledflame said:
allenkerky said:
Tachii said:
^ Of course you can.

:/.


"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

A quote by Benjamin Franklin. I really hold true to that because if you allow the state to take more and more liberty, eventually, you have to fear the state. So eventually the people protecting you, also become the people oppressing and hurting you.

Most power eventually becomes abused, so you have to be careful the power you allow your government and society to have over you (the people)


Do you view airport security or border patrol as a legitimate violation of your personal liberties as a United States citizen?


It's all about being reasonable. No one said that there shouldn't be an airport security but the airport security shouldn't be anal invade too much in you privacy or make you feel humiliation.
Security should still treat you as an equal human being and not like an already probable terrorist.
Things like taking your fingerprints making you take your shoes off, searching your PC files, touching you or your kids too much or going through your bags by throwing stuff around etc shouldn't exist.
People should be able to go on their vacations or visit their family easily and not be afraid of security bullies. We should not let our lives being ruled by terror and fear.
Besides most of those crazy additions of humiliation and annoyance to passengers hardly do anything to increase security. It's more like they are designed to keep you scared than actually keep you secured.

If someone made a movie in the early 90's about the shit they do now people will have joked about it and say they don't expect such Owelian things to ever really happen but here we are. People forget that many things happening starting from the US and spreading will be considered an over reaching imagination some years back. I mean wtf, knowing everything you do, say or write and they even approved of killing people without trials, that's some crazy shit out of stories we used to read about crazy fascist future societies.


Of course and I certainly agree it can and usually is a hassle to travel. Also, I'd add airport security can not ask nor force you to show the files on your laptop just in case one ever asks, customs on the other hand, can require it if entering the country. Most of these cases however do not represent the majority. The majority will not be fingerprinted, nor will the majority have to give access to their pc files. While everyone has to take their shoes off there is precedence for that.

Sometimes these things will of course happen and it's certainly frustrating, hell I've wished horrible things on many border guards, but I think this is being blown out of proportion. I would like to believe that security officials in majority of cases have received the proper training (specifically CBA) to be able to make the right judgement call majority of the time. However, understandable sometimes they will not, and will make mistakes that might be viewed as harassment, and it's these cases that will be remembered, rather than all the times one traveled without incident.

The particular article in my mind, displays a bad judgment call, but I think this topic in general is trying to portray this as far more common than it actually is, as if it is a norm.


Unfortunately what you would like to believe and what is the truth are two different things. It's not sometimes at all, thousands upon thousands of people who travel have stories of being treated like shit and if we put al kind of authorities then almost no human has escaped stupid shitty treatment. They lost the ball and they aren't even looking to find it.
Your words seem more like you had your head in the sand. If you are ever in a company of people that do a little traveling if you mention airport security almost all of them will have a small story that irritated the shit out of them and where some security asshole thought his the fucking cousin of Chuck Norris.
 
04-10-12, 3:34 PM

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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 806
Monad said:

Unfortunately what you would like to believe and what is the truth are two different things. It's not sometimes at all, thousands upon thousands of people who travel have stories of being treated like shit and if we put al kind of authorities then almost no human has escaped stupid shitty treatment. They lost the ball and they aren't even looking to find it.
Your words seem more like you had your head in the sand. If you are ever in a company of people that do a little traveling if you mention airport security almost all of them will have a small story that irritated the shit out of them and where some security asshole thought his the fucking cousin of Chuck Norris.


Quite the contrary I do extensive traveling, both for vacation and I make a yearly trip each year to the Ukraine during the holidays, and as stated cross the Canadian border several times a week. So it's not a matter of my head being in the sand, and as I said I have had numerous occasions where I was irritated by CBA.

Thousands upon thousands means nothing to me, nor does it represent anything. Thousands upon thousands makes up what percent of people who travel yearly? Well, in 2011 there were 637 million passengers on airlines in the US alone. So even if we're talking 999,999 thousand a year, we're talking....the small percentage of travelers aka "sometimes". What constitutes shitty, obviously varies from person to person as well. Some people are affronted on the sole basis of having to take their shoes off, a relatively trivial matter. Others anytime their vehicle or possessions are searched, however there are precedence for this behavior.

Now on what I would like to believe, what you said is true, however the opposite is also true. You could believe they were not trained, however this is unlikely in the case of CBA which I specifically pointed out, as their training is similar to that of a police officer, in fact you could make parallels between the two occupations. The TSA is another matter, I am not familiar with how one is employed or the training they go through, but in any position you will always have those who abuse power in some regard, whether it be politicians, police, or security of any kind. Of course, I do not believe, based on my own personal experience that these types of people make up the majority (for TSA...not for politicians). Of course these people leave the most lasting impressions.

I'm certainly not saying traveling can not be frustrating, as it can be, and one may very well experience something that irritates them, but I still stand by my statement that we are representing something as the norm when it is in fact not.

 
04-10-12, 5:58 PM

Online
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1361
Thank you Homeland Security for keeping this douchebag and his friends out of our country. We didn't want them here anyways. I mean seriously, whoever posts a pic like that deserves to have their passports revoked.
 
04-10-12, 6:08 PM

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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 48
United States government going too far with something? Who would have thought!
 
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