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Jan 20, 2009 7:07 PM
#21
wa?...not....oh wait...if its the bad ending then maybe <.< i havent played in a while....but i forgot about that one...so yah i guess<.< |
Feb 12, 2009 4:49 AM
#22
Well, if it is the Ilya route, it explains why Archer lost to Berserker. He let Ilya win =3 |
Jun 22, 2009 4:38 PM
#23
Berserker is stronger thats why.. Yeah, it sux, i know, but seriously, for starters look at the stats.. Berserks r like godly in comparison... Also archer has bad luck, never forget the luck, it makes everything unfair. Now lets take everything into account: Berserker, with full power and master support VS Archer, without full power or any support at all. Then points - tracing takes time, as u know even half a second is alot to a servant, so archer had it hard from the start, considering how fast bersercar is. Archer cant use caliburn without saber, cuz only king can use caliburn (it was stated in the vn), ekusucalibah takes too much mana... Therefore archer had to come up with his own ways of killing bersercar... Needless to say, if the assholes woulda stayed instead of running away to have mad sexx in the woods, archer woulda won. |
Jun 23, 2009 11:47 AM
#24
^ My dear friend. U are right in many way but also very wrong..... Strenght is al Beserker has(HE ALSO HAS VERY HIGH STATS IN EVERYTHING ELSE)... Beserker has no NP except god hand but that's a deffensive one. Berserker has no master support. The most Illiya could do for him is healing but that wouldn't work during batle. If anything having her there was a disatvantage. Not that Archer would make use of it but still. Tracing normal swords is shit fast(K&B).... Caliburn could have been used. Its was only suited for a king but that doesn't mean he can't use it. Shirou used it 2(without saber). Excaliblast is to slow and so is UWB. If Rin had stayed behind he might have retreated. But if anything not having her there gave him more freedom to do as he pleases(not kiling Illiya) But this discussion is kinda over already... |
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Jul 10, 2009 2:17 AM
#25
But doesnt ilya have awesome magi powers? i mena she did try to shoot gil on fate.. it didnt work ofcourse but i sbout archer has that magical resistance =p Also, archer didnt use caliburn, otherwise shiurous caliburn wouldnt have worked (cuz of god hand effect). Its unclear whjy however... Maybe he couldnt, maybe he chose not to =p A few thing aside, its certain that archer was at a disadvantage from fight start to fight end =/ |
Jul 15, 2009 6:07 PM
#26
In the anime.. Archer had managed to kill Berserker 4 times before getting killed for five times which ended his life as Tohsaka Rin's servant. Berserker has 12 life force stocks, while Archer had only 5. In other words, no matter how Archer fought Berserker, it will result as a defeat because Archer is not the protagonist of the story as that the anime follows the Saber route as opposed to Unlimited Blade Works. If Archer defeated Berserker, the story would drastically change... After all, Archer would be strong enough to beat Castor, Kuzuki-sensei, Assassin, Lancer, Gilgamesh, and Kotomine. That wouldn't make sense then.. In short, Archer lost to Berserker because he is not the protagonist. |
Jul 20, 2009 3:17 PM
#27
@T-h-ORN: Einzberns aren't realy good at offensive magic. Also she felt like Archer was a weak insect compared to Berserker. So I doubt she would do that. Pride and stuff you know how it is... Not that it could have done more than distract Archer at most. @Kira01: In the VN he killed Berserker 6 times. lol I agree that one of the main reasons Archer lost to Berserker was because of plot reasons. And Archer is the protaganist of the story at least an older version of the protagonist from the future and a different dimention... I'm not 100% shure if Archer could beat Lancer & Gilgamesh... Lancer came pretty close to killing him in Both of their fights and nothing can beat a Ea blast... But he would either remain as Rin's loyal servant or go after Shirou or he might even try to get some sweet Saber. XD God Type-Moon should make another Acher route! And I'm still waiting for my Ilya route! |
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Aug 3, 2009 3:12 PM
#28
Why did Gilgamesh lose to both Saber and Shirou? Because of his arrogance. It was his handicap. Now Archer has a handicap like that too. He desperately tries to hide his identity. Without Illya present I think he could've defeated Berserker. He's able to trace even Excalibur. With one blast he could've ereased Berserker. But he didn't want to kill Illya and didn't want her to witness the true nature of his powers. She may draw parells between him and a certain orange haired guy That's why he uses unique noble phantasms and uses abilities he didn't known for. Other option is if he really lost his memories and he can't use UBW or even use the tracing to summon known weapons. P.S: If I remember well in the VN his wounds were completely healed. |
Aug 5, 2009 6:01 AM
#29
willyvereb said: after Illya took archer in in HF she knew pretty mutch everything about him. There is realy no excuse. It's just lol Natsu.Why did Gilgamesh lose to both Saber and Shirou? Because of his arrogance. It was his handicap. Now Archer has a handicap like that too. He desperately tries to hide his identity. Without Illya present I think he could've defeated Berserker. He's able to trace even Excalibur. With one blast he could've ereased Berserker. But he didn't want to kill Illya and didn't want her to witness the true nature of his powers. She may draw parells between him and a certain orange haired guy That's why he uses unique noble phantasms and uses abilities he didn't known for. Other option is if he really lost his memories and he can't use UBW or even use the tracing to summon known weapons. P.S: If I remember well in the VN his wounds were completely healed. |
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Aug 5, 2009 2:22 PM
#30
Sep 29, 2009 11:27 AM
#31
When Shiro asks Rin, if there is a way to save Saber, she refuses to tell him at first until this situation arises. If Archer can kill berserker 6 times, using a few swords at a time, it isn't THAT hard to except that he can kill him 12 times if he used ALL. Also in the visual Novel, there isn't much hype about Berserker being the strongest servant, instead it is implied that Saber at her full potential (Full Mana + Avalon) is. Also it has been implied that Shirou with sufficient mastery of his power would be quite a strong hero (Which is exactly what Archer is). in all honesty, "Lancelot", the Berserker of the 4th war was a lot better than the current one. Archer's grand plan: Become a servant in the 5th war, kill Shirou, dissapear, Rin (Servantless Master) & Saber (Masterless Servant) team uo with the only remaining people they can trust (i.e. each other), they win the war, realise the truth of the Grail, destroy it, Saber decides to stay or leave, Rin goes to the "Clock Tower", Life goes on. Reasons it gets screwed up: Saber is dissapearing (Needs Mana NOW), He CAN'T attack Shirou now as she would die protecting him, only option (Let Shirou charge her up), he knows how things will end up after that, so its more or less pointless staying, he then realises "Man, I guess I'm an idiot afterall, sacrificing my Perfect Plan for the sake of those two" then he probably thinks "They need some time, so while I AM doing THIS, I MIGHT as well put up a good fight & take a few lives to make Rin proud (Which she will never loudly admit) while I'm at it." So he fights Berserker (It wasn't a STAGED fight, he just used an handicap of not using his PROJECTION magic to its fullest, doesn't mean he went easy on Berserker, you don't kill him 6 times & give him a fight of his life while ruining the castle's halls while your at it when you go easy on him.) |
Sep 29, 2009 1:18 PM
#32
Same opinion. And adding to that Archer can't use the very prana-consuming abilities like Excalibur's(because of his somewhat limited magic circuits...the max amount he can release in an instant is 270...even if he's a servant). Or his Magic ciruits overloading and he dies. But I guess he had many powerfull weapons, but he wanted Illya alive so he can't use the most devestating ones. And I guess he forgot the details about the Grail War a long time ago...like Berserker's God Hand ability or how powerfull he really is. Afterall Berserker even without the beneficial effects of the Mad Enchantment had A+ strenght and A class agility. With Mad enchantment he probably was the fastest Servant. Even with clever tactics and wide array of weapons Archer is in disadvantage against such a juggernaut at close ranga and indoors. |
Sep 29, 2009 1:55 PM
#33
Also note that Archer's eyes couldn't keep up with Lancer's moves who also has A rank agility... |
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Sep 30, 2009 2:28 AM
#34
If Archer wanted to win he WOULD have. We should not forget that his greatest advantage was that he was being underestimated, so if he started with an attack that would critically wound Berserker, he could finish the fight before Berserker can recover. Also Archer CAN use Excalibur while Rin is his master. He didn't use it as the whole mansion would come down & Illya would be killed. |
Sep 30, 2009 2:15 PM
#35
willyvereb said: So if he lost to berserker his goal hiding who he is would have failed...And it's how connected with the fate's Archer vs Berserker fight? Of course if Illya takes archer's soul she finds out his secret. Archer may be able to use Excaliblast but who is to say that would take all of Berserkers lives in one go? You know Archer even doesn't have enough prana to max out Excalibur... Also casting Ex - Calibur's true name take to long just like UWB. In the time he has spoken Berserker would have killed him... Berserker is after all the fastest servant. |
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Sep 30, 2009 3:21 PM
#36
Evilincarnate said: We should not forget that his greatest advantage was that he was being underestimated Since when does Berserker have the mental ability too underestimate someone? Doesn't he just think "RAWR KILL RAWR" throughout the whole fight. Evilincarnate said: so if he started with an attack that would critically wound Berserker, he could finish the fight before Berserker can recover. You mean before Berseker recovers 11 times. And your reasoning would rely on Archer critically wounding Berserker while ignoring his Eye of the Mind (fake). Berserker won't just sit back and take a move that would finish him, his instincts are too strong. And thinking that Berserker wouldn't be able to recover after his resurrection is just ridiculous. Remus_Lupa said: Also casting Ex - Calibur's true name take to long just like UWB. In the time he has spoken Berserker would have killed him... Berserker is after all the fastest servant. More like he would just side step out of the way. |
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Oct 1, 2009 4:22 AM
#37
Ketuekigami said: Evilincarnate said: We should not forget that his greatest advantage was that he was being underestimated Since when does Berserker have the mental ability too underestimate someone? Doesn't he just think "RAWR KILL RAWR" throughout the whole fight. Evilincarnate said: so if he started with an attack that would critically wound Berserker, he could finish the fight before Berserker can recover. You mean before Berseker recovers 11 times. And your reasoning would rely on Archer critically wounding Berserker while ignoring his Eye of the Mind (fake). Berserker won't just sit back and take a move that would finish him, his instincts are too strong. And thinking that Berserker wouldn't be able to recover after his resurrection is just ridiculous. Remus_Lupa said: Also casting Ex - Calibur's true name take to long just like UWB. In the time he has spoken Berserker would have killed him... Berserker is after all the fastest servant. More like he would just side step out of the way. Unlimited Blade Works need not be Chanted in one go. Also crically injuring, means stuff like melting or chopping off his ligs, such wounds take a few seconds to heal. And as you said Beserker is DUMB. So, Illya does the thinking & the underestimating. Also it takes archer 1 second to call down a rain of Noble Phantasms. If he released it on Illya, he could have killed Beserker the same way as Gilgamesh did. The only reason that Gilgamesh used the chain was because he was too lazy & arrogant to move himself, while Archer can move around & attack Illya, while DUMB old Berserker would end up as swiss chese trying to protect her. The only risk being that Archer might accidentally end up killing Illya if he makes a single miscalculation. |
Oct 1, 2009 6:34 AM
#38
You are underestimating Berseker so much it's not even funny... Berserker is unintelligent, but his Eye of the Mind (fake) and previous battle experience are all still available. He didn't survive in the age of gods as one of legend because he's 99% muscle. His instincts are top class especially with his Eye of the Mind (fake), enough so that even without being able to understand a complex plan by Archer, he can counter it when he senses the danger that will happen moments later. Fate/Stay Night said: Eye of the Mind (fake): B Avoidence of danger by sixth sense/instinct That isn't there just for show. It's a contributing factor too Bersekers strength. And Illya doesnt think for them, she just says "kill them Berserker", and he goes all out. Also, Archer doesnt just "call down a rain of Noble Phantasms". He isn't Gilgumesh outside of UBW. He uses each weapon as if he was their master. Meaning his skills in combat would have too be extraordinarily above Berserkers instincts too make up for the difference in stats. But it is obvious that Archer is not god when he picks up a sword, He was still human and that can only take him so far. Evilincarnate said: Also crically injuring, means stuff like melting or chopping off his ligs, such wounds take a few seconds to heal. Since when does Archer have the physical capabilities to do this? He would need a weapon that grants him physical capabilities beyond even Berserker, and if he had such a weapon, the whole battle should have been cake for him. He can't just "do this or that", everything needs to be possible in the scope of the two characters abilities, and this is clearly not possible for Archer. And no, Gilgumesh used Enkidu because it was the only way too stop him. Granted, It was the way that took no effort on his part, but without it Berserker was pushing him back at the start and came inches away from breaking Enkidu at the end. The only reason Berserker didn't win from the get go was because he was protecting Illya. Too be honest, Archer taking more then 2 lives seems unlikely too me. It's funny how Nasu threw out his characters true skills in Fate route in order to move the plot. It's like i say, Against Shirou, Berserker lost to a plot hole. Since it's literally impossible for Caliburn to take that many lives... I guess unless Nasu says so. |
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Oct 1, 2009 11:49 AM
#39
Not gonna quote anyone but I assume you all know who i'm talking to sorry for the bad grammer & spelling in advance. Berserker clearly thinks. He just isn't able to act on it most of the time. He wanted to duel Archer for mutch longer... All his Eye of mind (fake) does is tell him wether, he should run, smash block or just charge straight forward... In a battle Berserker vs Gill. The outcome depends on if Gill can kill Berserker before he smashes Gil to bits... Like shown in UWB. Serious Gill vs Berserker. Gill would win anyday... But serious Gil would beat anyone in fate. UWB chant can be done in pieces but then it would just be a simple poem. It's just words used to focus himself on the spell. He can't deploy a little bit of his RM with one line and expand it with each new line. Or do what he did in the anime... That is so uncannon btw. Again I don't think Archer can swordspam Berserker to death. Not without UWB. He might be able to kill him with it one or 2 times with it though. Berserker has no swordskills at all. So I assume that's how Archer killed him 6 times... Also Gil used Enkidu cuz he likes it. He has ton of other things in the GoB that could take out Berserker. Ea & his flying machine are the standard things to note. |
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Oct 1, 2009 2:30 PM
#40
The conditions of the spell is for him not to chant/say anything else in between, no restrictions against moving as the spell is cast on himself, so wherever he moves the target (Himself) moves along with him. Not to mention, while "Trace on" activates the circuits for level 1 projection (Creation of weapons whose blueprints he remembers, which is quite a lot actually), "I am the bone of my sword" activates further levels of projection & allows him to call forth more & more weapons from UBW with every next line that he chants & on completion of the spell he releases a boundary field within which UBW is called forth into the realm of reality. (i.e. Archer overwrites a portion of reality with his own). Also isn't it going a little far to think Archer's skill/power/intelligence/talents/arsenal is as pathetic as Shirou's. Cuz, while this is Shirou's first time at projection, Archer has worked hard for years & mastered his skills to the extent that he rightfully (fair & square, with no special memories from his future self) obtained his own WORLD. i.e. the "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS". To think Shirou ripped off that technique from his own future self. Also Archer mentions in UBW that seeing "THAT WORLD" should enhance his tracing skills as long as he understands the meaning of his skills. |
EvilincarnateOct 1, 2009 2:38 PM
Oct 1, 2009 2:44 PM
#41
True he can move somewhat when chanting for UWB but he does seed to focus on the spell. You can't focus long enough to summon UWB with Berserker who is stronger, faster & Luckeyer than you will ever be. Even for Archer summoning UWB is no cakewalk. Also no implications have been made that Archer has used UWB on Berserker he would if he could.. UWB Shirou + HF Shirou - Plothax = Archer But Archer realy has zero motivation in most of his shown fights (vs Caster, vs Lancer, vs Saber, vs Rider, vs Sasaki, vs True Assasin). He might have been slightly motivated against Rider & His second time against Lancer... He even loses his will to fight when facing Shirou... I have discussed about Fate/Stay Night on serveral forums, seen the anime & completed the game. I think I sorta understand the scope of Archer's power. |
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Oct 1, 2009 3:30 PM
#42
As said, Archer's greatest problem is he doesn't want to win & he doesn't want Shirou to be killed. HE wants to KILL Shirou HIMSELF to create a Paradox, which the WORLD would fix by ERASING thier EXISTANCE for good. But, Shirou is the Main Charachter, no one can kill him before the end, not even his own future self, who has more than enough power to squash him like a bug. Also, as Archer IS Shirou from the future, it is a given fact that he is at his maximum potential or even beyond when he fights for the sake of something important to him. This happens only once in the game: Archer v/s Shirou. But, he was annoyed as hell to see Shirou's naivate & as such behaved immaturely, taunting Shirou & trying to compete in projection with him rather than take him out with his superior skill. Also he was constantly pressured by Shirou's persistance despite the odds being against him, a trait he had given up after dying & realising that ultimately he had been betrayed by his ideal. |
Oct 2, 2009 3:29 PM
#43
No need for the bold stuff. Like I said.. 'I have discussed about Fate/Stay Night on serveral forums, seen the anime & completed the game.' I know where u are comming from. And agree with pretty mutch your whole post but not saiing anything about it is boring. Archer might have fought for the sake of something important to him. Against berserker... I'm not shure if it was said in the VN but Archer is clearly torn in between helping Rin win the war as her Servant and ending his existance as a CG. Against Shirou. Archer was at least 10 times weaker than normal but Shirou was still no match for him. For some reason Shirou's fighting and speech got to him. Jeez if his resolve could be broken as easy as that no wonder he betraid his ideal.. |
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Oct 3, 2009 10:17 AM
#44
Remus_Lupa said: No need for the bold stuff. Like I said.. 'I have discussed about Fate/Stay Night on serveral forums, seen the anime & completed the game.' I know where u are comming from. And agree with pretty mutch your whole post but not saiing anything about it is boring. Archer might have fought for the sake of something important to him. Against berserker... I'm not shure if it was said in the VN but Archer is clearly torn in between helping Rin win the war as her Servant and ending his existance as a CG. Against Shirou. Archer was at least 10 times weaker than normal but Shirou was still no match for him. For some reason Shirou's fighting and speech got to him. Jeez if his resolve could be broken as easy as that no wonder he betraid his ideal.. His resolve wasn't broken. He would have killed himself without a second thought if he believed what he was doing was right. He realised that his actions were wrong & thus decided to give up. (NOTE: From here on it is mostly speculation on my behalf). Basically, he has experienced hell over & over again, to the point that he lost all faith in his Ideal. The reason being that he began to feel that humans are utterly hopeless & one man trying to save them is a futile attempt. He ahd always believed that if he tried & tried again, at some point he would gain the strength to save everyone. But as he grew up & became a "Hero", he realised that even at the limit of his powers there will be some people he will not be able to save, yet he tried as hard as he could to save the most people. On the day of " THE INCIDENT", he couldn't save those people, so he made a contract with the "WORLD" to save them. For him it was a case of hitting 2 birds with 1 stone (He could save all the people there & after death he would be given the power to save even more people till the end of eternity). Even after he was executed because of the false accusations of 1 of the people he had saved, he still continued to believe in his ideal. But after death he realised that he was finally betrayed by his "Ideal". This time he was truly hurt, for the 1st time he thouht that he had made a mistake & that he had chosen the wrong path. That is why he wanted OUT. So, he planned his death. It can be thought of as his way of correcting his "Mistake". So, seeing Shirou pissed him off. "That bumbling fool who kept on believing in his ideal despite seeing how pointless it is." - That is what Shirou must have seemed like to him. Similarly Shirou must have thought of him as "That big jerk who despite having become a hero through effort alone, has given up on the ideal that drove him.". So, during the fight Archer competed with Shirou, NOT in strength of body, magic or skill but in terms of the strength of their beliefs. Archer was (probably Subconciously) trying to beat Shirou down to make him give up (Which would symbolise that his ideal is weak), but Shirou didn't give up even when his body almost broke down. This reminded Archer of what it was "HE' truly believed. He remembered that while he lived for his "Ideal', it was his persitence that drove him to keep walking forward in his path, regardless of how many times he is betrayed by different things on the way, even if that thing is his own 'Ideal". Finally he realised:" I had never really made a mistake" (Like Saber's realisation: "The King protected the Country, but the Country could not protect the King.", or Sakura's realisation: "Nee-san's life has been no easier than mine, yet she has never complained about it & has always wanted me to be happy"). He realised that he always knew that his "Ideal" was an impossible one to begin with, but that didn't stop him from persuing it, because it was too beautiful a thing to give up on. He then thought: "So WHAT if it's FAKE, WHAT if it WASN"T ORIGINALLY MINE to begin with." "That IDEAL was too beautiful too lose it's value just because it is a BORROWED one" "Firstly wasn't it presisely BECAUSE it was so BEAUTIFUL that he BORROWED it in the first place.". So, realising his mistake he had decided it was his time to leave & thus lost to Shirou. As for the BOLD & the ITALICS, I use it coz it's FUN. |
EvilincarnateOct 3, 2009 10:22 AM
Apr 16, 2010 5:02 PM
#45
what EvilIncarnate said + : Archer was below the level of Rider in Fate due to" mana leak" He looses to Berserker in "FATE" since Fate's Shiro is to become Archer, that means Archer has more "Continues" in different worlds/time lines, like a "w/e, try again..."I" have to kill ME anyway" btw.... lol at the "I have discussed about Fate/Stay Night on serveral forums, seen the anime & completed the game. I think I sorta understand the scope of Archer's power." hope you dont believe Heracles Berserker is stronger than Emiya Archer. Best Hero available is Heracles....BUT in Archer form...not Berserker |
Apr 16, 2010 11:39 PM
#46
Actually, the reason that Hercules, Medea & Medusa have insane advantages over future parts is that they are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo old & soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo highly exaggerated in the myths that no real being can match their APPARENT feats. Exceptions being: Crimson Moon, Arcueid Brunestud, Zelretch, Primate Murder & ORT. |
Apr 17, 2010 5:04 AM
#47
Or you know... Gil! I'm not sure if Gil could take on Herakles (as an Archer) but even then, if he uses EA it's all over. I hope you don't mean Rider with Shinji as a master... Because she sure as hell wouldn't be able to take even half the amount of lives Archer took. Well unless Bellerophon takes a lot of lives. Herakles might even fight better against Rider because he's the great grandson of her killer... The chance of encountering Shirou was astronomical to begin with. Sure there are bad ends (alternate dimensions were Archer kill him) but he didn't know that. In his mind he won't get another chance. He wasn't sure whether it would work like he wanted in the first place. |
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Apr 17, 2010 7:38 AM
#48
Remus_Lupa said: Or you know... Gil! I'm not sure if Gil could take on Herakles (as an Archer) but even then, if he uses EA it's all over. I hope you don't mean Rider with Shinji as a master... Because she sure as hell wouldn't be able to take even half the amount of lives Archer took. Well unless Bellerophon takes a lot of lives. Herakles might even fight better against Rider because he's the great grandson of her killer... The chance of encountering Shirou was astronomical to begin with. Sure there are bad ends (alternate dimensions were Archer kill him) but he didn't know that. In his mind he won't get another chance. He wasn't sure whether it would work like he wanted in the first place. Nine Lives in Archer form is equivalent to "firing ma Lazor" ...literally. Heracles is "the greatest hero of all times" + being hire to Zeuz. Ea would just count 6 lives maybe? even if it where 10 lives, 1 True Nine lives is to defeat any other enemy ( more if a command spell is used and remembering Illya was her master, no mana problems) Evilincarnate said: Actually, the reason that Hercules, Medea & Medusa have insane advantages over future parts is that they are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo old & soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo highly exaggerated in the myths that no real being can match their APPARENT feats. Exceptions being: Crimson Moon, Arcueid Brunestud, Zelretch, Primate Murder & ORT. they should make a BMW 6 |
NasuverseproApr 17, 2010 7:44 AM
Apr 17, 2010 12:17 PM
#49
Dear, I don't think you understand how EA works... Gil pulls it and the match is over. It could level the entire world if Gil wanted to use it that way. The amount of lives it would take for Hera's stock is at least 99 though to be fair any number up until 99^9999999999999999... would be justified. Heracles =/= the greatest hero of all time. He's the greatest Greak Hero though Achilles is a close second or even stronger than him. |
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Apr 17, 2010 2:23 PM
#50
Remus_Lupa said: Dear, I don't think you understand how EA works... Gil pulls it and the match is over. It could level the entire world if Gil wanted to use it that way. The amount of lives it would take for Hera's stock is at least 99 though to be fair any number up until 99^9999999999999999... would be justified. Heracles =/= the greatest hero of all time. He's the greatest Greak Hero though Achilles is a close second or even stronger than him. ...Zeuz himself said he was to be the greatest one...dont dare go against god´s will, Era couldnt o.o >.> Nine lives will create more beams if needed depending on the targets, therefore : half of the world = Enuma Elish both halves of the world= NineLives btw....we jumped off topic. time pulling Ea > time unleashing NineLives Rho Aias <=EA ( Gae bolg =?=Ea since single Target gae bolg is more effective than Ea even though it is B rank D: ) yet enough time to recreate UBW and change positions. anyway, we are off topic again, :s Achilles vs Heracles? that would be interesting, though Zeuz wouldnt want that ^_^d |
Apr 18, 2010 4:05 AM
#51
I don't want to waste a lot of space quoting, so just figure out whom the replies are for: 1) I was comparing them with their other counterparts (i.e. other people who held the same class). Medea is the strongest Magus. Hercules is the strongest (physically) & quite skilled (if sane). Medusa is quite a monster. The heroes of the Greek Ago of the Gods have highly exaggerated tales. This leads them to being exceptionally powerful. 2) It is explained in F/SN that Heroic spirits are more like a product oh human imagination given form by Allaya. It kinda works like this: Let us take a person (say Mr. X) existing in a given era (say year xxxx). He achieves various feats & becomes a famous hero. All the people revere him. Tales about him are recorded. He dies. His soul is taken to the Throne of Heroes. As time passes these tales become history. Certain made up anecdotes & exaggerations to the feats are added. Eventually they become legends. People exaggerate it even more & the stories turn into myths. He who was once a strong heroic man is now raised to the rank of a demi god. Allaya takes up the image of the hero the people of the current era (in F/SN, it's somewhere around the year 2000) have & superimpose it over the actual hero. As a result we get a god like super being. During the Holy Grail War, when a catalyst related to the hero (Mr. X) is used (Which may be an item related to Mr X or an extreme similarity in past & personality with Mr X), the Grail cheats Allaya into lending the hero's soul (now in the form of a heroic spirit), selects an ideal class for it (Thus further superimposing the class specialty on to the image created by the people). And now we have an extremely powerful or weak Servant. As explained above the transition of a person from being a hero to ending up as a Servant in the Holy Grail War is like taking the photo of a good looking person & then exaggerating it more & more as per peoples tales in photoshop to produce an ideal image, when no such person exists. The memories of Heroic spirits is also influenced/altered to fit the requirements of the people (Eg: Kojirou has no memories of his past as he was a person who could use Tsubame Gaeshi, whose soul had been summoned to fulfill the role of the character of a poem). Only known exceptions are Arturia (As she hasn't become a complete Heroic Spirit) & EMIYA (As he is from the future. i.e no exaggeration of abilities). 3) As per my above explanation heroes like Hercules & Medea are exceptionally powerful in their fields. Hercules is called the strongest man, so Allaya makes him the strongest. Medea is called the ultimate witch, so Allaya makes her that way. This also applies to Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh is said to possess all the treasures of the ancient world. This combined with the corollary to the Principle of Succession of Weapons (The corollary being every weapon made by man in legends must have an original model which inspired it's creation) leads to Gilgamesh being granted the Gate of Babylon by Allaya. 4) But any hero born around the current era or the future will not enjoy these benefits, because with the advent of technology & man's reducing faith in miracles, there are no more exaggerated tales being made of people in the present. So, Heroic Spirits made from people born in these ages will have the same potential as they had when they were alive. Except for the difference that they'd be unaging & would have an unlimited supply of mana. So, the moral we learn is: DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE IMAGINATION OF ALMOST 7 BILLION HUMANS!!! |
Apr 18, 2010 4:30 PM
#52
Jun 2, 2010 4:35 PM
#53
really, who said that Shirou's swords affinity is thanks to excalibur's sheath obviously didn't read the visual novel correctly and Shirou's not good only with swords but with other weapons too (shields aswell but they cost a lot more to use) http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Emiya_Shirou go read this and lol nine lives will create more BEAMS? they're slashes and the technique you're mentioning is another one from wiki http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Nine_Lives read people, read! |
KodoshiJun 2, 2010 4:41 PM
Jun 28, 2010 11:03 PM
#54
Kodoshi said: really, who said that Shirou's swords affinity is thanks to excalibur's sheath obviously didn't read the visual novel correctly and Shirou's not good only with swords but with other weapons too (shields aswell but they cost a lot more to use) http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Emiya_Shirou go read this and lol nine lives will create more BEAMS? they're slashes and the technique you're mentioning is another one from wiki http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Nine_Lives read people, read! Evil, Remus....should i rage at him??? |
Jun 29, 2010 1:30 PM
#55
Yes please. I'm so baffled by the sheer amount of.. well randomness in that post. I find myself unable to do so. Then again it's his first and only post here on MAL, so the probability of him/her actually reading your or any response is fairly low. tl;dr decide for yourself. |
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise" |
Jul 1, 2010 11:47 AM
#56
Remus_Lupa said: Yes please. I'm so baffled by the sheer amount of.. well randomness in that post. I find myself unable to do so. Then again it's his first and only post here on MAL, so the probability of him/her actually reading your or any response is fairly low. tl;dr decide for yourself. lol, i did notice... and then, another noob trying to do better trolls than mine... GG to him. ill answer his things though... for explanation for other random-ghost accounties ^^ ::: Noobie_with_Ghost_account said: i invite you to do the same AFTER having studied the material yourselves O_^d read people, read! i believe this is all for the moment, lets go back to comment section for asking Emiya to update or letting me do it ( or another guy, idk ) |
Jul 7, 2013 11:54 PM
#57
Nasuversepro said: ...Zeuz himself said he was to be the greatest one...dont dare go against god´s will, Era couldnt o.o >.> Nine lives will create more beams if needed depending on the targets, therefore : half of the world = Enuma Elish both halves of the world= NineLives btw....we jumped off topic. time pulling Ea > time unleashing NineLives Rho Aias <=EA ( Gae bolg =?=Ea since single Target gae bolg is more effective than Ea even though it is B rank D: ) yet enough time to recreate UBW and change positions. anyway, we are off topic again, :s Achilles vs Heracles? that would be interesting, though Zeuz wouldnt want that ^_^d Yeah, too bad Zeus doesn't have the same authority as Nasu, ya know the guy who wrote the story. =D Word of God states that Gilgamesh is the strongest servant. Meaning in 'serious mode' Goldy would roflstomp Heracles, regardless of class. Your wanking of Nine-Lives, while hysterical, isn't rooted in fact. Rho Aias will never block full Ea, more so now that CCC has been released and solidifies it as a true anti-planet NP. You're either a troll or just grossly uninformed. |
May 18, 2016 3:01 PM
#58
But seriously, can anyone imagine how awesome it'd be to have Archer wielding the giant axe-sword and saying "Set...Nine Lives Blade Works" |
Oct 4, 2018 2:27 AM
#59
Because berserker was stronger :) . In terms of pure skills , stats and power berserker is better then Archer . Also he needs to be filled 12 times , and each time it should be a different type of kill. So Archer need to have at least 12 different ways(weapons) to kill him. In a direct fight between them , berserker will win. But if we think about the holy Grail war , archer could have just opened UBW and aimed at illya ( what Gilgamesh did ) . Also , he is a goddamn archer , he isn't supposed to have a close combact against the servant with the highest physical strength |
Jun 2, 2020 10:37 PM
#60
so what i got from this was archer can make the sword but thtat doesnt mean he can use it fully. remember its sabers sword that killed berserker. it took both of them holding it to use it and i think the sword whould have been the same as when the red hair dude i forgot his name fought berserker when saber didnt touch the sword. because saber wasnt there the sword was just a plain strong sword. |
Jun 2, 2020 10:37 PM
#61
so what i got from this was archer can make the sword but thtat doesnt mean he can use it fully. remember its sabers sword that killed berserker. it took both of them holding it to use it and i think the sword whould have been the same as when the red hair dude i forgot his name fought berserker when saber didnt touch the sword. because saber wasnt there the sword was just a plain strong sword. |
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