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Pandora Hearts Chapter 71 Discussion
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View Poll Results: Pandora Hearts Chapter 71 Discussion
5 out of 5: Loved it!
 
42 77.78%
4 out of 5: Liked it
 
11 20.37%
3 out of 5: It was OK
 
1 1.85%
2 out of 5: Disliked it
 
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04-04-12, 12:06 PM

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Actually there are a few discussions with people that believe in this, like me.

So, I was wondering. That part of the abyss that Lacie used to go to and talk, that wasn't the "core of the abyss", was it? Just curious, though I believe it isn't 'cause when Revis said that she would be casted to the core, he said it like she didn't know which place it was.
 
04-07-12, 8:56 AM

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Poor Oz. But I'm a little glad because at least now I know why Oz felt nostalgic and wanted to trust Alice when he first met her. Since Jack appeared, I had always thought it was because of Jack and wondered how much Oz's feelings towards Alice where influenced by Jack. Would he care about her this much without Jack? So I'm glad to learn how they really first met and that it's all his own feelings. He was really grateful to Lacie and loved both Alices.
 
04-08-12, 10:47 AM

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wow. lots of theories and inferences made from this chapter.

i agree with the theory that oz's other body will end up with Alice. I kind of want it this way, not only because it explains Alyss's behavior but I love Alice and I don't want her to be alone, especially since she'll be alone soon. I think that since Oz has taken in the darkness of the Abyss that he will actually become B-Rabbit when Alice is killed in the tragedy. I think she will be killed by Jack, out of his sheer madness or by accident.

I also think this chapter is very telling of Oz's future. Given the events that led to the destruction of Oz's first rabbit body, I think Oz is going to sacrifice his human body to get rid of Jack and save Alice (and probably everyone else) in the process. I will be really heartbroken if this happens because above all the rest I want Alice to finally be happy and get what she deserves after all of this time. Please let us have an Alice and Oz running into the sunset ending!!!
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04-08-12, 1:35 PM

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aelove said:
I kind of want it this way, not only because it explains Alyss's behavior but I love Alice and I don't want her to be alone, especially since she'll be alone soon. I think that since Oz has taken in the darkness of the Abyss that he will actually become B-Rabbit when Alice is killed in the tragedy. I think she will be killed by Jack, out of his sheer madness or by accident.

I love Alice, but it makes me really sad for Alyss. I mean, Lacie ever since the beginning wanted to get rid of the abyss' solitude, yet it only made it lonelier after giving a body to it.

Anyways, no one replied their thoughts about what I said earlier. If Alyss turns out to be that "thing" that Lacie used to talk to, then it means that Alyss was her friend all along, explains why she felt so happy for sharing Lacie's memories with her beloved. Plus, I believe that Alyss really loved Alice, that's why she asked Break to save her. However, when Alice was reborn as B-Rabbit, Alyss started hating her because she became the one who left her all alone.

Damn, I really love those twins and their mother. ;;

edit: forgot to mention the reason why I think Alyss loved Alice back then: Probably because she was the only thing left of Lacie, she wanted to protect her so Lacie could be "alive" forever.
Modified by Liinah, 04-08-12, 4:58 PM
 
04-08-12, 4:44 PM

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Liinah said:
I love Alice, but it makes me really sad for Alyss. I mean, Lacie ever since the beginning wanted to get rid of the abyss' solitude, yet it only made it lonelier after giving a body to it.

Anyways, no one replied their thoughts about what I said earlier. If Alyss turns out to be that "thing" that Lacie used to talk to, then it means that Alyss was her friend all along, explains why she felt so happy for sharing Lacie's memories with her beloved. Plus, I believe that Alyss really loved Alice, that's why she asked Break to save her. However, when Alice was reborn as B-Rabbit, Alyss started hating her because she became the one who left her all alone.

Damn, I really love those twins and their mother. ;;

^THIS. I agree with all this.
❝ & your heart, as it was then, will be on f i r e.

— anna akhmatova
 
04-09-12, 3:12 PM

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Well... This chapter was... Weird (Getting used to "Oz"), Cute (Alice <3), heartwarming (Lacie, that two page spread was gorgeous, and I think somehow Lacie has become my favorite character).

And for an obsessive person like me, exciting.

this is why

Alice is wearing the same dress in each scene (though in the last one her neckband isn't crossed. Either Alice didn't cross it that time or Mochizuki tweaked the style (she changed Jack's earrings , they used to have a cap). Though its possible she... Just likes that dress... It's simply retarded to brush it off as nothing more. Then again, Jack is wearing different clothes between the first two links (or scenes around those times), so maybe she does just like that dress...??? Huh...

And confusing... as apparently the WoA gave the memory to Oz right when Jack first met Alice in person, it would make sense that is when he saw the memory, but Alice's clothes changes between the scenes. So either the abyss screwed up time again or an Alice switched places with her twin and got changed while Jack saw the memory... Um, this person is confused....

edit: abyss probably screwed up time, Jack's clothes are also different between when he first met alice and when he saw the memory

It would have been kind of interesting if it were Alice remembering this and not Oz. "Hey Oz? I remembered I used to have a little rabbit bunny I always called "Os" until this really weird guy told me it was "Oz"" I would have liked to see a conversation along those lines would have worked out... Ah well...

And Oz, oh, dear, Oz... I'm liking him more and more now <3 And his relationship with Alice as well.

So, is it that "Oz" the doll became "Oz the B-Rabbit" chain became "Oz Vessalius" the boy who's sin is his existence? How does Lacie's chain factor into all this? I wonder if the next chapter will be "Bloody Rabbit".
cielleia said:
Liinah said:
I love Alice, but it makes me really sad for Alyss. I mean, Lacie ever since the beginning wanted to get rid of the abyss' solitude, yet it only made it lonelier after giving a body to it.

Anyways, no one replied their thoughts about what I said earlier. If Alyss turns out to be that "thing" that Lacie used to talk to, then it means that Alyss was her friend all along, explains why she felt so happy for sharing Lacie's memories with her beloved. Plus, I believe that Alyss really loved Alice, that's why she asked Break to save her. However, when Alice was reborn as B-Rabbit, Alyss started hating her because she became the one who left her all alone.

Damn, I really love those twins and their mother. ;;

^THIS. I agree with all this.


Mmh. I really feel like there's still too much unknown about Alice/Will of the Abyss for me to draw any sort of conclusion from. However. The only thing that could possibly make ph any better would be some sort of sweet sisterly bond between them. Even if it went sour somewhere along the way, if at one point it existed I will melt forever in a puddle of happy goo.

Mmh. I suppose I'd also like some more development on Oswald, if I really had to think about what could make ph better...
Modified by Raemya, 04-09-12, 4:11 PM
 
04-09-12, 4:35 PM

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Raemya said:
And for an obsessive person like me, exciting.

this is why

YOU ARE MY GODDESS! I didn't even notice the dresses, OH MY. I NEED THE NEXT CHAPTER RIGHT NOW -cries- Though the scene from chapter 71 is probably from a different day from the other two 'cause Alice still didn't use braids on her hair.
 
04-09-12, 4:48 PM

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Liinah said:
OH MY. I NEED THE NEXT CHAPTER RIGHT NOW -cries- Though the scene from chapter 71 is probably from a different day from the other two 'cause Alice still didn't use braids on her hair.


You know, this was a really short chapter, and I was dead afraid we were going to be left hanging on what Lacie's memory was, but we got to see it, so I'm as content as I could possibly be. I still really really really want that chapter, though.

Good point! I figured the first two were probably from different days after a while of scrutinizing (Jack's clothes are different), and I suppose the last one would be after the tragedy of Sablier. What's infinitely baffling to me, though, is why the dress she wears when tears up her memory is that one and not the one she dies in
 
04-10-12, 4:15 PM

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I'm so confused...
 
04-10-12, 8:10 PM

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ichigo03 said:
I'm so confused...


Ditto that.

I swear... Pandora Hearts is quite good at looking like it makes sense. Except it really doesn't, if you start really thinking. Then some wham chapter comes along, and then it does make sense, and I feel like an idiot as I delightfully see that's it's been there all along.

Lacie's chain? Is it the chain form of the rabbit doll she took into the abyss, B-Rabbit? So was the rabbit "B rabbit" before it was dubbed "Oz"? How the heck to the two reconcile with each other?

Oz Vessalius? How did a human child end up with that first name anyways? Zai? Perhaps. Pretty much everything about Zai is a complete mystery, though. The body does not belong to "Oz Vessalius" and the soul is that of "Oz B rabbit". Last time I checked, humans were born with souls of their own, but who knows what's going on in this manga? Mochizuki, I hope to god... Rachele Cecile? Will she just be a name with no particular relevence to the story? I kind of doubt it, I certainly hope not. Insight on her as well as Zai sometime, pretty please?

The core of the abyss, the darkness of the abyss, the intention of the Abyss, I'M CONFUSED!!! I tried expanding on it in a coherent manner, but apparently my brain can't even handle that much. Pandora Hearts can be so damn mind boggling sometimes, and there are still more pecularities. At least the characters make sense.

Mostly.

I remember thinking that the this story was really getting to its answers and there weren't many mysteries left. I'm glad that on a second (so not second, but who the heck could keep count?) glance, this manga just defies expectations still more.

having expectations in this manga is just asking to have them broken. Why do we even try?
 
04-12-12, 6:50 AM

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Raemya said:

The core of the abyss, the darkness of the abyss, the intention of the Abyss, I'M CONFUSED!!! I tried expanding on it in a coherent manner, but apparently my brain can't even handle that much. Pandora Hearts can be so damn mind boggling sometimes, and there are still more pecularities. At least the characters make sense.

Well we also heard "Harmony of the Abyss."
In all honesty.
I think when they say "of" they mean like 'your doll, your house, your car.'
It's more posessive so it'd be the darkness that is the Abyss now or it's darkness
same for the Core and Harmony.

Intention/Will - means determination to act in a certain way
Darkness - of course it's dark or chaotic, different
Harmony - peace or calm or regularity
Core - the heart or middle of an object

That's how I put it besides the name Intention of the Abyss was given by Revis | L/Revy | Levi and called by that name by Lacie when she was younger.

The Intention/Will is the "personality" or so of the being in the Abyss, it can act on its own however it wants such as changing time. That could also very much just be White!Alice merged with the "thing" since Oz calls it that (and White!Alice is determined to get Jack and Alice back so that could work, for later on though.)
The Darkness is just that, the darkness of the Abyss since it no longer has golden lights flooded throughout it. (because of White!Alice's birth.)
Harmony - when the Abyss was a peaceful place not filled with Chains and bits of Sablier.
The Core - the heart of the Abyss where whatever ends up there dies with no chance of escaping (ex; Child of Misfortune are cast there because they won't be able to come back, Revis even said that.)

It'd be better to say Lacie spent time with the Will as she even called it that or "that thing" as Oz called it but we used "Core" only, that's where she was cast, so it doesn't make much sense honestly.
❝ & your heart, as it was then, will be on f i r e.

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04-12-12, 6:52 AM

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D - Did that make any sense ?
❝ & your heart, as it was then, will be on f i r e.

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04-12-12, 9:22 AM

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It made some...?

But even when the abyss was golden world, it was still referred to as having a dark core/darkness of the abyss.

Oh well. Retrace 68 - and some parts of 69 - just don't make sense to me, but I'll try to have faith in mochizuki making this clear sometime.

I mean, given what we know about Glen, Alice saying that Gil's soul would be swallowed in darkness and die isn't quite matching up either, and that was rather intentional (of course, it's also possible that Alice was just lying...) I am going to consign myself to having clues and no answers for the time being! Lalalala~

Ah - people last chapter were talking about Lacie's wish. Is there any proof it was really Lacie that was being referred to and not Jack's, or is this another "say my name" pronoun mixup?

................. Alright, am I missing something? Because, seriously, killing children of misfortune because they can affect the core of the abyss is a bit extreme, don't you think? Would it really have been too hard for Oswald to keep Lacie from interfering with the abyss? Glens are killing innocent people - people they often love - because they have a power only Glen is supposed to have? Am I the only one that thinks it's a bit silly?

Haruumph. In any case, there's a lot this manga hasn't told us yet. I'll try to track down some patience. Actually, it's nice that there are still mysteries; they can be so frustrating exciting.
Modified by Raemya, 04-12-12, 9:31 AM
 
04-12-12, 9:45 AM

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Raemya said:
................. Alright, am I missing something? Because, seriously, killing children of misfortune because they can affect the core of the abyss is a bit extreme, don't you think?

It is extreme, but is not like Glen could get all the children of misfortune and lock them somewhere, it'd be way easier to kill them. Though I don't know if they are only casted intoto the abyss in Glen's ceremony, or in any case. I guess it's in any case 'cause when Jack and Lacie were teased by those weird men in the city, they said that the child of misfortune worths a lot. So they're probably gathered somewhere and given to the Baskervilles or something.
 
04-13-12, 1:07 AM

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Hmm after reading the chapter again......it looks like Alice lost something important- Oz and Jack who saw Lacie and with all the fresh memories of her rushing to his head he could have flip out then and start the tragedy......
The white puffy cloud that is called the Intention of the Abyss can grant life and when its happy the Abyss becomes this beautiful place but still the intention of the abyss cannot resurrect people,it can only make them chains.(so i think Oz gave his life in order to keep Alice alive by giving his powers to her and that's how she became the B-rabbit)

I also think the reason Alyss call's Oz her beloved person is because he was also one of the things that Lacie left behind and also he was always there being with her..

Btw i was wondering did Vincent ever try to play with OZ D::D: just imagine Oz as a bunny rabbit seeing Vincent with those scissors and also im happy Gil didn't become the next Glen because then he would have to punish Vincent and banish him to the core
 
04-20-12, 7:45 PM

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NO!! I CAUGHT UP!!! :((

Now I can't speed through this wonderful manga...

Ah well. great chapter as always. It's awesome getting to understand this whole mystery even if it is piece by piece. I am waiting for the translation of 72 atm. Can't waiiiiiit!
 
04-22-12, 10:05 AM

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I'm a bit curious about Alice right know.
Just a weird thought that came in my mind when I read the first two chapters (I didn't read all post, so if something like that was already mentioned I'm sorry):

In the second Chapter they called her "Phantom of the Abyss" in the fan translation.
In my copy of the first Volume (in German) they called her "Verdammter Geist des Abyss"
"Verdammt" can mean something offensive or just damned/condemned.
"Geist" can be translated in ghost/spirit/phantom.
"des Abyss" means of the Abyss

Isn't a ghost something dead that came back (sorry, weird explanation I know xD)
Back then in the tragedy of Sablier she died.
And in another Chapter she almost dissolved. (?)

"Oz! (..) please promise me that when I'm in trouble or if there are people that want to hurt me you'll come and save me." - Alice, Chapter 70
What if Oz failed to save her (or like already mentioned: killed her) and then tried to atone?
What if the Alice B-Rabbit is just a memory fragment of the Alice we saw in this Chapter, being kept alive by Oz B-Rabbit and/or the Intention of the Abyss?
But she (black Alice) tore up her memory by her own.
Why does she name the Rabbit Oz (from Oswald) out of all names?
And why is their (the twins) name a anagram of Lacie?
Was that just random from Mochizuki-sama or does that have a meaning.
Why did white Alice recognize Jack? "I found him...!"
Why does she know the name of Lacie? I thought she 'died' after giving birth in the abyss.
Was it the "lonely one" Lacie gave the Rabbit who spoke that sentence?
Then is white Alice's mind twisted between Lacie's Child and the Abyss?
Why do the twins both have the name "Alice"? They're two different persons.

I'm confused. So many questions @__@

(PS: I'm sorry about (grammar) mistakes *bows down*)
 
04-22-12, 6:05 PM

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Neun said:
Why does she name the Rabbit Oz (from Oswald) out of all names?
Why did white Alice recognize Jack? "I found him...!"
Why does she know the name of Lacie? I thought she 'died' after giving birth in the abyss.
Then is white Alice's mind twisted between Lacie's Child and the Abyss?
Why do the twins both have the name "Alice"? They're two different persons.

So many questions. XD But okay:
Why does she name the Rabbit Oz (from Oswald) out of all names?
One of the Alices really seems to like Oswald, she even copies the way he talks. He is her uncle and she doesn't know many names anyways, so she picked his name.

Why did white Alice recognize Jack? "I found him...!" / Why does she know the name of Lacie? I thought she 'died' after giving birth in the abyss.
White Alyss is the core of the abyss (and I believe she's that "thing" that Lacie used to talk to) and when Lacie was sacrificed, Alice saved a piece of her memories. By watching her memories, she knew who Lacie and Jack were, also that he was someone important to her, that's why she gets so happy when she finds him.

Then is white Alice's mind twisted between Lacie's Child and the Abyss?
White Alice is probably just the Abyss, she's not "human" like the other Alice.

Why do the twins both have the name "Alice"? They're two different persons.
Lacie thought she was going to have just one baby, so she probably said to Revis that she wanted to name it as Alice. However two babies were born and one was named Alice while the other one is the Will of the Abyss. But since they used to change bodies, White Alice probably wanted to be like her sister and started calling herself Alice as well.
 
04-22-12, 11:21 PM

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Liinah said:
Neun said:
Why does she name the Rabbit Oz (from Oswald) out of all names?
Why did white Alice recognize Jack? "I found him...!"
Why does she know the name of Lacie? I thought she 'died' after giving birth in the abyss.
Then is white Alice's mind twisted between Lacie's Child and the Abyss?
Why do the twins both have the name "Alice"? They're two different persons.

So many questions. XD But okay:
Why does she name the Rabbit Oz (from Oswald) out of all names?
One of the Alices really seems to like Oswald, she even copies the way he talks. He is her uncle and she doesn't know many names anyways, so she picked his name.

Why did white Alice recognize Jack? "I found him...!" / Why does she know the name of Lacie? I thought she 'died' after giving birth in the abyss.
White Alyss is the core of the abyss (and I believe she's that "thing" that Lacie used to talk to) and when Lacie was sacrificed, Alice saved a piece of her memories. By watching her memories, she knew who Lacie and Jack were, also that he was someone important to her, that's why she gets so happy when she finds him.

Then is white Alice's mind twisted between Lacie's Child and the Abyss?
White Alice is probably just the Abyss, she's not "human" like the other Alice.

Why do the twins both have the name "Alice"? They're two different persons.
Lacie thought she was going to have just one baby, so she probably said to Revis that she wanted to name it as Alice. However two babies were born and one was named Alice while the other one is the Will of the Abyss. But since they used to change bodies, White Alice probably wanted to be like her sister and started calling herself Alice as well.


Hmm, actually, I disagree with quite a few of these answers and some of them are incorrect.

Alice names her rabbit Oz, because Alice (Black Alice, the Alice we know) liked her uncle a lot. I do agree with you that she probably didn't know very many names, and therefore chose his name.

White Alice (or Alyss as I refer to her) recognized Jack because she had the memories and feelings of Lacie within her. And just like how Oz the Rabbit was able to see and feel the memories and emotions that Lacie had, so was Alyss, which is how she recognized Jack right away (she saw him in her mother's memories).

When it comes to these memories "Alyss" had no part in actually saving them. The original Japanese makes no mention of that, we are simply told that Lacie's memories and feelings that were found within Alyss survived, which indicates to me that they were so strong and Lacie was so determined for Jack to see and understand them, that they were able to not got annihilated like the rest of her memories and feelings and body did.

I disagree completely with you when it comes to White Alice being "just the Abyss" and not "human" like the other Alyss. It's been stated (and shown) in the manga that Alyss was born just like Alice was in the Abyss, but Alyss (probably the twin who was born first) was the one who become the body vessel for the Core of the Abyss, which is exactly what Levy (Revis) had wished to happen. He wanted to give the Core a human vessel, thinking that might change things, and Lacie thought this might help the Core of the Abyss become less lonely so she took part in his experiment.

Personally, I think the reason why Alyss is so twisted is because her mind is constantly in conflict with her own thoughts and feelings and those of the Core of the Abyss (which was the presence which Lacie felt and interacted with). Having been locked away in the Abyss for so long, and having a proper body in which to display and feel emotions has caused a lot of strain and mental damage to happen to Alyss, especially considering the fact that she is in a mental state that is similar to Leo (constantly hearing a voice, or possibly voices, since I am of the opinion that the Core of the Abyss is made up of previous Children of Misfortune) or even to a similar state like that of Oz with Jack.

If she is experiencing split personalities, or if she literally has two different consciousness living within one body, and this would explain her outbursts and quick changes in personality. It could also explain her wish rather easily: Alyss no longer wants to be the Will of the Abyss, and she also asks "that girl" to be saved. That girl could be referring to Alice, but it could also be referring to Lacie. If it is referring to Lacie, then this could be the part of the wish that comes from the Core of the Abyss, who would like to see that sweet girl who visited the Abyss to find and have happiness.

If "that girl" is referring to Alice, then it could be possible that parts of Lacie's memories and feelings are still within Alyss and the motherly nature of Lacie is showing through, wanting her other daughter to be safe.

Finally, as to why the twins are both named Alice? Who knows. Levy sure didn't talk to Lacie about it. He seemed surprised by Alice's presence as well as by her name. Lacie's body got annihilated the moment she got dragged down into the Abyss and reached the Darkness of the Abyss. So Alice and Alyss were probably never actually given physical "birth" because they were cradled by the Core of the Abyss until they were fully developed babies and then they were born.

So, Lacie never had the time to give names to her children (it is a mystery who named them and how).

If Lacie and Levy (Revis) had discussed baby names before, then I think he would have had one picked out for the Will of the Abyss already (since that was the only child he was expecting, and he never expected to interact with his child anyway, because they would be in a part of the Abyss that he could not enter unless it was an emergency).

So yeah, who knows, maybe that will get explained one day when Alice gets all of her memories back? But who knows~

By the way, sorry if anything got posted weird or whatnot, this is my first time posting on these forums, so excuse my noob-ness! m(_ _)m
 
04-23-12, 3:03 PM

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LilyGinnyBlack said:
White Alice (or Alyss as I refer to her) recognized Jack because she had the memories and feelings of Lacie within her. And just like how Oz the Rabbit was able to see and feel the memories and emotions that Lacie had, so was Alyss, which is how she recognized Jack right away (she saw him in her mother's memories).

When it comes to these memories "Alyss" had no part in actually saving them. The original Japanese makes no mention of that, we are simply told that Lacie's memories and feelings that were found within Alyss survived, which indicates to me that they were so strong and Lacie was so determined for Jack to see and understand them, that they were able to not got annihilated like the rest of her memories and feelings and body did.

I disagree completely with you when it comes to White Alice being "just the Abyss" and not "human" like the other Alyss. It's been stated (and shown) in the manga that Alyss was born just like Alice was in the Abyss, but Alyss (probably the twin who was born first) was the one who become the body vessel for the Core of the Abyss, which is exactly what Levy (Revis) had wished to happen. He wanted to give the Core a human vessel, thinking that might change things, and Lacie thought this might help the Core of the Abyss become less lonely so she took part in his experiment.

If she is experiencing split personalities, or if she literally has two different consciousness living within one body, and this would explain her outbursts and quick changes in personality. It could also explain her wish rather easily: Alyss no longer wants to be the Will of the Abyss, and she also asks "that girl" to be saved. That girl could be referring to Alice, but it could also be referring to Lacie. If it is referring to Lacie, then this could be the part of the wish that comes from the Core of the Abyss, who would like to see that sweet girl who visited the Abyss to find and have happiness.

If "that girl" is referring to Alice, then it could be possible that parts of Lacie's memories and feelings are still within Alyss and the motherly nature of Lacie is showing through, wanting her other daughter to be safe.

Finally, as to why the twins are both named Alice? Who knows. Levy sure didn't talk to Lacie about it. He seemed surprised by Alice's presence as well as by her name. Lacie's body got annihilated the moment she got dragged down into the Abyss and reached the Darkness of the Abyss. So Alice and Alyss were probably never actually given physical "birth" because they were cradled by the Core of the Abyss until they were fully developed babies and then they were born.

I don't know about the japanese scans, but in english it sounds like Alyss "saved" a piece of Lacie's memories. If her memories were so strong, then all of them would still be there. Even the Abyss was destroying Lacie's memories, Alyss was the one keeping them.

It's not mentioned that Alice named herself when she first appeared, even Revis says "Let me welcome you, Alice". I still think that Lacie told him to name her baby like that or somehow Lacie's feelings got to Alice. I don't think Lacie would want to name the baby as "Will of the Abyss", she wanted the Abyss not to feel alone anymore and she would probably want it to be "human".

And Alyss specifically said "Save, Alice". Well, it's not like we can be 100% right when it comes to PH, but I still keep my theories and thoughts.
 
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